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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Be_the_ball
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I'm never wrong
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Post by dynamark Tue 20 Apr - 17:41

First topic message reminder :

Ben Leicester have been fortunate to find wealthy owners who saved us from a deal of trouble but they could not be accused of throwing stupid money around and disregarding the fans.The PL winning team was assembled from a bunch of frees ,has beens and cheap buys I think Ulloa was the top buy at about £9m.What they then did as some players moved on for big money was start throwing some of that money about to try to maintain position with varying degrees of success.The Chairman gives away free beer and cakes on his birthday and has given a lot to local organisations including a childrens hospital ,We have been very very lucky.
I think the German teams have a different voting structure where fans have a big say.

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Post by beninho Tue 18 May - 6:38

Ant Middleton seems like a massive tw@t. Don't think he has any redeeming features.

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Post by beninho Tue 18 May - 17:04

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1222266/?__twitter_impression=true

At sone point, the government will surely be forced into admiting that they fricked up the brexit negotiations and its all just based on lies.

https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1342128236847886336?s=19
It didn't take long to go from excellent deal.

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Post by McLaren Tue 18 May - 21:40

Crystal Palace are down next season.
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Post by Duty281 Tue 18 May - 21:43

They'd have to fall off by some margin to get relegated with the amount of garbage circulating at the bottom of the PL.

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Post by dynamark Wed 19 May - 1:43

Im with duty Palace have Zaha Benteke Eze Schlupp who can do some damage so probably similar position next time round. nervous tonight about Leic v Chelsea again but worst way we are 5th so decent season.Me birthday today (a large number) so we are out for a meal may catch second half
Spoke to a few who went to wembley and all loved the noise of the crowd -maybe helped us

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Post by beninho Wed 19 May - 17:56

Independent report?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/18/anger-as-patel-delays-publication-of-report-into-private-detectives?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

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Post by beninho Wed 19 May - 17:58

Remember how awful Palace were under De Boer. No guarantee the new manager won't revert to thar.

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Post by JAS Wed 19 May - 19:25

beninho wrote:Remember how awful Palace were under De Boer.  No guarantee the new manager won't revert to thar.

Was de Boer even there long enough to take off his jacket?? I'd suggest that kind of flip/flop decision making at board level to be a more likely source of Palace woes than any manager they plonk into the managerial ejector seat

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Post by wadey101 Wed 19 May - 20:42

What garbage at the bottom are you referring to though? I'd say Southampton and Brighton are much better teams than Palace and expect them to be much higher in the table next season.

Would only really say Newcastle and Burnley have been worse than Palace this season other than the relegated teams. Definitely think they could be in trouble next season and especially so if Zaha leaves.

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Post by westisbest Wed 19 May - 21:45

JAS wrote:
McLaren wrote:Jas

Who is he, and what happened?

Ex SAS soldier, think this must be about 5th? 6th series (there’s been a couple of celebrity ones as well) so effectively it’s a bit of reality TV where contestants get put through the rigour of SAS training. I’m not a fan of reality TV to be fair but this one is different, I do like it and it would have been right up my street of something I’d love to have done when I was a bit younger.

He’s  being binned by channel 4 because “his values are not in line with ours” . So you engage a battle hardened elite soldier to run a TV show based on a gruelling training regime and you expect him to be all rainbow fairy cupcakes?? Allegedly some female crew members weren’t happy with some of his “army humour”

Saw a bit of an interview he did.
He seems an ok guy. Think he’s moving to Australia. He said something along the lines of less chance of people taking offence. Something like that.

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Post by westisbest Wed 19 May - 21:49

I can see Norwich going back down. Yo yo club. Can see Watford and whoever wins the play offs struggle to.
Then you have the same names in Burnley, Newcastle, Brighton down there.

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Post by westisbest Wed 19 May - 21:50

Palace will miss Eze. Heard he could be out till next year.

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Post by JAS Thu 20 May - 1:48

westisbest wrote:
JAS wrote:
McLaren wrote:Jas

Who is he, and what happened?

Ex SAS soldier, think this must be about 5th? 6th series (there’s been a couple of celebrity ones as well) so effectively it’s a bit of reality TV where contestants get put through the rigour of SAS training. I’m not a fan of reality TV to be fair but this one is different, I do like it and it would have been right up my street of something I’d love to have done when I was a bit younger.

He’s  being binned by channel 4 because “his values are not in line with ours” . So you engage a battle hardened elite soldier to run a TV show based on a gruelling training regime and you expect him to be all rainbow fairy cupcakes?? Allegedly some female crew members weren’t happy with some of his “army humour”

Saw a bit of an interview he did.
He seems an ok guy. Think he’s moving to Australia. He said something along the lines of less chance of people taking offence. Something like that.

Yeah, he said he's moving, remains to be seen if he actually does it permanently. I think he's sound and I don't think there's enough people around like that. There's way too many woke celebrity fanny farts around for my liking. I honestly think the country would be a LOT better off with guys like that who have really walked the walk to be there advising some of the vacuums we have as politicians on what leadership is all about. Sure they have a rogue side as well, remember they're intensely trained and drilled ruthless killing machines as well. But overall, those who manage to exit an elite military career and rehabilitate successfully back into civvy street to me have a lot to offer.

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Post by JAS Thu 20 May - 2:05

JAS wrote:
beninho wrote:Remember how awful Palace were under De Boer.  No guarantee the new manager won't revert to thar.

Was de Boer even there long enough to take off his jacket?? I'd suggest that kind of flip/flop decision making at board level to be a more likely source of Palace woes than any manager they plonk into the managerial ejector seat

Just checked...it was 5 games FFS!! Very symptomatic of the colossal arrogance fuelled by financial unrealism that pervades and will ultimately destroy the Premiership (as it nearly threatened to do a few weeks back). The guy came on the back of 4 Dutch titles with Ajax and Palace after 5 (admittedly poor) games go..."nah not good enough fur us". To be fair Milan thought the same after 14 games but he's now the Dutch National Team Boss.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 20 May - 2:45

JAS wrote:
westisbest wrote:
JAS wrote:
McLaren wrote:Jas

Who is he, and what happened?

Ex SAS soldier, think this must be about 5th? 6th series (there’s been a couple of celebrity ones as well) so effectively it’s a bit of reality TV where contestants get put through the rigour of SAS training. I’m not a fan of reality TV to be fair but this one is different, I do like it and it would have been right up my street of something I’d love to have done when I was a bit younger.

He’s  being binned by channel 4 because “his values are not in line with ours” . So you engage a battle hardened elite soldier to run a TV show based on a gruelling training regime and you expect him to be all rainbow fairy cupcakes?? Allegedly some female crew members weren’t happy with some of his “army humour”

Saw a bit of an interview he did.
He seems an ok guy. Think he’s moving to Australia. He said something along the lines of less chance of people taking offence. Something like that.

Yeah, he said he's moving, remains to be seen if he actually does it permanently. I think he's sound and I don't think there's enough people around like that. There's way too many woke celebrity fanny farts around for my liking. I honestly think the country would be a LOT better off with guys like that who have really walked the walk to be there advising some of the vacuums we have as politicians on what leadership is all about. Sure they have a rogue side as well, remember they're intensely trained and drilled ruthless killing machines as well. But overall, those who manage to exit an elite military career and rehabilitate successfully back into civvy street to me have a lot to offer.

When you look at the people who don't like him it makes you realise he must be alright, a few precious saps.

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Post by JAS Fri 21 May - 19:36

"Unscrupulous investigative journalist uses deception to get scoop story" I just don't get why that's a shock to anybody. Isn't that their "accepted" modus operandi? That's not to say it's right, gawd knows I've torn into our media enough over their tawdry behaviour. You don't have to go back 25 years to numerous examples of lives being ruined by adverse media intrusion.  

I did wonder...is this part of a plan to start rehabilitating Harry back with the rest of the Royals i.e rather than tearing lumps out of each other via the media, circling the family wagons and turning the spotlight on something they are united on? Why else would you put such an overt focus on 1 aspect of a 25 year old story?

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Post by Galted Fri 21 May - 20:22

JAS wrote:"Unscrupulous investigative journalist uses deception to get scoop story" I just don't get why that's a shock to anybody. Isn't that their "accepted" modus operandi? That's not to say it's right, gawd knows I've torn into our media enough over their tawdry behaviour. You don't have to go back 25 years to numerous examples of lives being ruined by adverse media intrusion.  

I did wonder...is this part of a plan to start rehabilitating Harry back with the rest of the Royals i.e rather than tearing lumps out of each other via the media, circling the family wagons and turning the spotlight on something they are united on? Why else would you put such an overt focus on 1 aspect of a 25 year old story?

Maybe they're trying to justify not paying their TV licence.
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Post by McLaren Fri 21 May - 21:08

Jas

I think you are indulging in the conspiratorial thinking that you are famous for.
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Post by dynamark Fri 21 May - 21:14

Bit rich that now Harry is on an earner with his part owned TV show doing the sort of gossip rubbish that he was always complaining about. What a bunch of chumps the queen must think she is related to.

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Post by JAS Fri 21 May - 21:39

McLaren wrote:Jas

I think you are indulging in the conspiratorial thinking that you are famous for.

No Mac, conspiratorial thinking would be suggesting a right wing establishment plot to undermine/discredit the BBC.

So what’s you take on the raking over of 25 year old stories, very green in terms of recycling??

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Post by Duty281 Fri 21 May - 22:29

JAS wrote:"Unscrupulous investigative journalist uses deception to get scoop story" I just don't get why that's a shock to anybody.

1) You might expect this of a tawdry tabloid like the Mirror or the Sun, but people generally expect better standards from the BBC.

2) It goes a little beyond plain deception, as Bashir went to the extent of faking bank statements. It's also alleged that Bashir told Diana a host of extraordinary things in an effort to secure an interview, including that she was being spied on by MI5, and that her car was being tracked and her phone tapped.

3) It involves Diana and it concerns an event watched by 23 million people, hence huge public interest.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 21 May - 22:34

Bashir was in the wrong no doubt of that but lets be honest here Diana didn't need a lot of convincing to air her dirty laundry did she.

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Post by dynamark Sat 22 May - 2:01

Strange really if it was the Sun or Mirror or US national enquirer it would be quite expected.
Because it is BBC there is a different standard and probably rightly

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Post by pedro Sun 23 May - 9:16

Nil points

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Post by JAS Tue 25 May - 0:07

pedro wrote:Nil points

Been waiting for a couple days now for the rabid Brexiteer types to demand that we withdraw forthwith, stop humiliating ourselves and get our pride back, musical sovereignty like :-p

It's the same Poopie show it always was, the Greek, Cyprus and Turkey votes highlighted for years that it has very very little to do with music and more about petty nationalistic squabbling. I personally don't think we need it, without wishing to sound too jingoistic I do think we probably have the best music industry in the world so it does beg the question...why do we bother?

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Post by dynamark Wed 26 May - 21:30

Let s face it the Europeans dont like us much we left EU ,got more vaccines ,nicked their fish and it wasnt a great effort solo singer with a half decent song.Eurovision happens every year but it wont change your life and it has become a bit of a 'gay' festival if im not mistaken.

Different topic how the hell had Cummings got copies of Govt documents in his possesion bit of a security lapse, Lock him in the Tower!!

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Post by JAS Thu 27 May - 1:54

dynamark wrote:Let s face it the Europeans dont like us much we left EU ,got more vaccines ,nicked their fish and it wasnt a great effort solo singer with a half decent song.Eurovision happens every year but it wont change your life and it has become a bit of a 'gay' festival if im not mistaken.

Different topic how the hell had Cummings got copies of Govt documents in his possesion bit of a security lapse, Lock him in the Tower!!

I did think...have they suddenly become a bit more relaxed about who has to continue to adhere to the Official Secrets Act and who doesn't? Isn't this the kind of stuff that's normally locked away for a generation (30 years?) before it is revealed. Not that I agree with such an absurdity, there's a lot to be said for transparency, especially when trust is so low between politicians and the public.

What I do find stunning is that we have 127k+ dead and it's been spun that we've done such a good job. We're slagging other countries off as being dirty and infected and less capable of dealing with the pandemic than us whilst our total deaths and deaths per million is STILL way higher then their's (France, Germany etc). I don't like Cummings (obviously) but just because you dislike, don't trust somebody doesn't mean that they're always lying

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Post by dynamark Thu 27 May - 17:07

Not quite sure how Cummings was involved in giving his evidence my understanding was he was dismissed as a govt advisor.He is on a mission to nail as many to the wall as possible thats for sure.I would rather the enquiries be based on minutes of official meetings and records not just conversations and discussions in an informal way.

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Post by JAS Thu 27 May - 18:03

dynamark wrote:Not quite sure how Cummings was involved in giving his evidence my understanding was he was dismissed as a govt advisor.He is on a mission to nail as many to the wall as possible thats for sure.I would rather  the enquiries be based on minutes of official meetings and records not just conversations and discussions in an informal way.

I wonder if he would have said anything if the government had been sitting on a precarious 1 or 2 seat majority. He clearly feels wronged by Johnson and many of his cabinet but at the end of the day he's still a Tory at heart. Probably took the view that it's better to get this dirty washing aired and out of the way now before the next General electoral cycle starts. There are already media snippets of Starmer getting the blame for not being an effective enough opposition. You really couldn't make this Poopie up, 127k plus dead and it's everybody else's fault from dirty jonny foreigners, ineffective opposition, discredited svenghali's etc. It's absolutely incredible.

People still want to lock up Blair for the Iraq war (where just over 4000 were killed, 179 British Servicemen & women) and indeed its STILL cited as a reason by some why they will never vote Labour again and yet...here we have a Government that has presided over 127k plus deaths from a Pandemic for which they were simply NOT prepared and have blundered their way through. Many of those deaths could/should have been avoided especially in the 2nd wave (by which time they had a much better idea of what was going on) and yet Boris continues to ride a wave of unprecedented popularity...I thought I had a decent grasp of politics but given that logic defiance above, I really really don't understand politics at all.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 27 May - 18:23

4000 were killed during the Iraq War? The lancet has total deaths most of which are attributed to violence at over 600,000 unless we're ignoring the untold hell that was inflicted on the actual Iraqi citizens.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 27 May - 19:09

JAS wrote:What I do find stunning is that we have 127k+ dead and it's been spun that we've done such a good job. We're slagging other countries off as being dirty and infected and less capable of dealing with the pandemic than us whilst our total deaths and deaths per million is STILL way higher then their's (France, Germany etc).

It's tough to do comparisons based on statistics of highly questionable accuracy, especially as all nations differ in how they count Covid-19 deaths.

The UK has, almost certainly, over-reported deaths due to Covid-19. Many nations, especially Turkey and China, are flat-out lying and under-reporting their number of deaths due to Covid-19. The French, incidentally, have also had 1.5 million more cases of Covid-19 than the U.K. Plus many countries in poorer regions of the world, with particular regard to Latin America, India and the African continent, simply don't have the resources to accurately collate death statistics from Covid-19.

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Post by JAS Thu 27 May - 22:18

Soul Requiem wrote:4000 were killed during the Iraq War? The lancet has total deaths most of which are attributed to violence at over 600,000 unless we're ignoring the untold hell that was inflicted on the actual Iraqi citizens.

See Duty's next post regarding highly questionable accuracy of Covid deaths, you could apply the same to war deaths...and of course you could throw in stats on the genocide that was happening beforehand. Statistics and arguing over them is a really useful way of diverting away from the central crux of the matter...did we manage this crisis well or not? Is 127k and counting a good result?

Although to be really fair both responses illustrate my point on the politics very well. People go out of their way to defend or if not directly defend then deflect away from the indefensible.

I certainly agree with some parts of Duty's assertion on some of the stats from some countries are just downright lies some deliberate (China, Turkey, Russia), some through what I can only imagine is incapability to do a comprehensive count (India, Brazil). For moderately populated advanced democracies (Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea, Japan, Australia) there might be some idiosyncrasies in the detail of the numbers & calculations and there will of course be differing influencing factors on morbidity but broadly speaking if a country like say Japan can achieve the kind of numbers it has achieved then we should be looking at that and saying...can we better that or can we even get close. If the answer to that is no then I'd say that was a lack of political will and an acceptance that our government wilfully or incompetently let over 100000 people die. Japan (twice the population of the uk have had 1/10th of the deaths we have). Had I been Boris last summer I'd have been Zooming the Jap and South Korean PMs to bits, gleaning as much off them as I could, instead of wasting taxpayers money financing Deloitte & Serco executives yachts.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 27 May - 22:23

JAS wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:4000 were killed during the Iraq War? The lancet has total deaths most of which are attributed to violence at over 600,000 unless we're ignoring the untold hell that was inflicted on the actual Iraqi citizens.

See Duty's next post regarding highly questionable accuracy of Covid deaths, you could apply the same to war deaths...and of course you could throw in stats on the genocide that was happening beforehand.  Statistics and arguing over them is a really useful way of diverting away from the central crux of the matter...did we manage this crisis well or not? Is 127k and counting a good result?

Although to be really fair both responses illustrate my point on the politics very well. People go out of their way to defend or if not directly defend then deflect away from the indefensible.

I certainly agree with some parts of Duty's assertion on some of the stats from some countries are just downright lies some deliberate (China, Turkey, Russia), some through what I can only imagine is incapability to do a comprehensive count (India, Brazil). For moderately populated advanced democracies (Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea, Japan, Australia) there might be some idiosyncrasies in the detail of the numbers & calculations and there will of course be differing influencing factors on morbidity but broadly speaking if a country like say Japan can achieve the kind of numbers it has achieved then we should be looking at that and saying...can we better that or can we even get close. If the answer to that is no then I'd say that was a lack of political will and an acceptance that our government wilfully or incompetently let over 100000 people die. Japan (twice the population of the uk have had 1/10th of the deaths we have). Had I been Boris last summer I'd have been Zooming the Jap and South Korean PMs to bits, gleaning as much off them as I could, instead of wasting taxpayers money financing Deloitte & Serco executives yachts.

So you genuinely believe only 4,000 people died as a result of the Iraq war?

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Post by Duty281 Thu 27 May - 22:37

JAS wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:4000 were killed during the Iraq War? The lancet has total deaths most of which are attributed to violence at over 600,000 unless we're ignoring the untold hell that was inflicted on the actual Iraqi citizens.

See Duty's next post regarding highly questionable accuracy of Covid deaths, you could apply the same to war deaths...and of course you could throw in stats on the genocide that was happening beforehand.  Statistics and arguing over them is a really useful way of diverting away from the central crux of the matter...did we manage this crisis well or not? Is 127k and counting a good result?

Although to be really fair both responses illustrate my point on the politics very well. People go out of their way to defend or if not directly defend then deflect away from the indefensible.

I certainly agree with some parts of Duty's assertion on some of the stats from some countries are just downright lies some deliberate (China, Turkey, Russia), some through what I can only imagine is incapability to do a comprehensive count (India, Brazil). For moderately populated advanced democracies (Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea, Japan, Australia) there might be some idiosyncrasies in the detail of the numbers & calculations and there will of course be differing influencing factors on morbidity but broadly speaking if a country like say Japan can achieve the kind of numbers it has achieved then we should be looking at that and saying...can we better that or can we even get close. If the answer to that is no then I'd say that was a lack of political will and an acceptance that our government wilfully or incompetently let over 100000 people die. Japan (twice the population of the uk have had 1/10th of the deaths we have). Had I been Boris last summer I'd have been Zooming the Jap and South Korean PMs to bits, gleaning as much off them as I could, instead of wasting taxpayers money financing Deloitte & Serco executives yachts.

Japan (and South Korea) are very different countries from ours in terms of culture, which gives them a natural advantage over Western European nations in battling Covid.

1) Wearing masks has been normal for decades.
2) Social distancing is a cultural norm over there, well before Covid-19 happened. Other cultural norms include no handshakes, far less hugging/kissing etc.
3) Much lower levels of obesity.
4) Higher work from home levels before the pandemic happened.
5) Far tougher border controls.

All of this meant fewer cases which means fewer deaths.

I don't think doing what Japan did - not much testing, no stringent lockdowns like the UK - would have gone down well here. And I don't think the Japanese government have actually got masses of support from their people for how they've 'dealt' with the pandemic.

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Post by beninho Fri 28 May - 3:46

Well Hancock definitely will be the sacrificial horse then.

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Post by beninho Fri 28 May - 3:48

Orban invited to downing Street, disgusting. Orban is a horrible person with abhorrent views.

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Post by ralphjohn69 Fri 28 May - 7:47

I thought you'd misspelled Corbyn there....

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Post by JAS Fri 28 May - 18:19

Soul Requiem wrote:
JAS wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:4000 were killed during the Iraq War? The lancet has total deaths most of which are attributed to violence at over 600,000 unless we're ignoring the untold hell that was inflicted on the actual Iraqi citizens.

See Duty's next post regarding highly questionable accuracy of Covid deaths, you could apply the same to war deaths...and of course you could throw in stats on the genocide that was happening beforehand.  Statistics and arguing over them is a really useful way of diverting away from the central crux of the matter...did we manage this crisis well or not? Is 127k and counting a good result?

Although to be really fair both responses illustrate my point on the politics very well. People go out of their way to defend or if not directly defend then deflect away from the indefensible.

I certainly agree with some parts of Duty's assertion on some of the stats from some countries are just downright lies some deliberate (China, Turkey, Russia), some through what I can only imagine is incapability to do a comprehensive count (India, Brazil). For moderately populated advanced democracies (Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea, Japan, Australia) there might be some idiosyncrasies in the detail of the numbers & calculations and there will of course be differing influencing factors on morbidity but broadly speaking if a country like say Japan can achieve the kind of numbers it has achieved then we should be looking at that and saying...can we better that or can we even get close. If the answer to that is no then I'd say that was a lack of political will and an acceptance that our government wilfully or incompetently let over 100000 people die. Japan (twice the population of the uk have had 1/10th of the deaths we have). Had I been Boris last summer I'd have been Zooming the Jap and South Korean PMs to bits, gleaning as much off them as I could, instead of wasting taxpayers money financing Deloitte & Serco executives yachts.

So you genuinely believe only 4,000 people died as a result of the Iraq war?

That's not what I meant and you know fine well it isn't. But fun marks for keeping up the deflection around this current governments Covid performance. There were around 4000 servicemen/women killed. I'm sure I read somewhere that that the number of British soldiers was around 180. It's 180 too many for sure and like with Covid, hindsight is a wonderful science.

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Post by JAS Fri 28 May - 18:29

Duty281 wrote:
JAS wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:4000 were killed during the Iraq War? The lancet has total deaths most of which are attributed to violence at over 600,000 unless we're ignoring the untold hell that was inflicted on the actual Iraqi citizens.

See Duty's next post regarding highly questionable accuracy of Covid deaths, you could apply the same to war deaths...and of course you could throw in stats on the genocide that was happening beforehand.  Statistics and arguing over them is a really useful way of diverting away from the central crux of the matter...did we manage this crisis well or not? Is 127k and counting a good result?

Although to be really fair both responses illustrate my point on the politics very well. People go out of their way to defend or if not directly defend then deflect away from the indefensible.

I certainly agree with some parts of Duty's assertion on some of the stats from some countries are just downright lies some deliberate (China, Turkey, Russia), some through what I can only imagine is incapability to do a comprehensive count (India, Brazil). For moderately populated advanced democracies (Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea, Japan, Australia) there might be some idiosyncrasies in the detail of the numbers & calculations and there will of course be differing influencing factors on morbidity but broadly speaking if a country like say Japan can achieve the kind of numbers it has achieved then we should be looking at that and saying...can we better that or can we even get close. If the answer to that is no then I'd say that was a lack of political will and an acceptance that our government wilfully or incompetently let over 100000 people die. Japan (twice the population of the uk have had 1/10th of the deaths we have). Had I been Boris last summer I'd have been Zooming the Jap and South Korean PMs to bits, gleaning as much off them as I could, instead of wasting taxpayers money financing Deloitte & Serco executives yachts.

Japan (and South Korea) are very different countries from ours in terms of culture, which gives them a natural advantage over Western European nations in battling Covid.

1) Wearing masks has been normal for decades.
2) Social distancing is a cultural norm over there, well before Covid-19 happened. Other cultural norms include no handshakes, far less hugging/kissing etc.
3) Much lower levels of obesity.
4) Higher work from home levels before the pandemic happened.
5) Far tougher border controls.

All of this meant fewer cases which means fewer deaths.

I don't think doing what Japan did - not much testing, no stringent lockdowns like the UK - would have gone down well here. And I don't think the Japanese government have actually got masses of support from their people for how they've 'dealt' with the pandemic.

Yes they very different Duty, that IS my whole point. A government of truly inspirational leadership would have encouraged us for the sake of managing our way through the Pandemic to highlight different countries performance and encouraged us to adopt (at least temporarily) some of those norms.
Masks...we could have done MONTHS before we did
Social distancing...I'l give the Gov't a passmark on that one, they were maybe 2-3 weeks behind ideal but they got it and promoted it
Obesity...Yep we are terrible and never going to solve that in a few weeks, that'll take decades
WFH...Many companies embraced it, some did not
Border controls... well yes WHY didn't we

To be fair, those countries also got bitten MUCH harder by SARS and so had already learnt lessons which is PRECISELY why we should have looked at them more.

With the cultural thing that IS down to each of us as well as the Govt, we as a nation never took it seriously enough in the early days either.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 28 May - 19:18

JAS wrote:
That's not what I meant and you know fine well it isn't. But fun marks for keeping up the deflection around this current governments Covid performance. There were around 4000 servicemen/women killed. I'm sure I read somewhere that that the number of British soldiers was around 180. It's 180 too many for sure and like with Covid, hindsight is a wonderful science.

I'm not deflecting away from anything, I asked a question about a comment you made. For the record i've grown tired of the Covid debate, the left feel the government are to blame for everything while the right don't agree, not much point carrying on at this point.

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Post by beninho Fri 28 May - 20:09

It shouldn't be a left/right issue to wonder why the government was (is) terrible with border control in the last year.

It shouldn't be a left/right issue to wonder why the government made a mess of hospital discharges into care homes.

It shouldn't be a left/right issue to think we should have done more earlier in the autumn.

It shouldn't be a left/right issue to think the vaccines have been handled well.

If you base everything on a narrow political view it is not healthy.

I'm right leaning the government is great. Is an awful place to be.
I'm left leaning the government is always terrible is just as awful.


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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 28 May - 20:14

Classic misunderstanding of the comment made.

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Post by beninho Fri 28 May - 20:22

Soul Requiem wrote:Classic misunderstanding of the comment made.

Surely you agree that having right leaning views shouldn't automatically mean you agree with everything the government did?

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Post by dynamark Fri 28 May - 20:26

I think we need to remember a few things about the care home issue.
Hospitals were desperate to free beds for very poorly covid cases and all discharges are based to clinicians judgements.The hospital was a very risky place to be as well.
Nothing to have stopped the care homes effectively isolating anyone they had concerns about until a test was done.They generally get well paid for the care they provide.
If you are in a care home you are likely to be very frail
No doubt things could have been done better by all sides but not easy to attach blame

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Post by JAS Fri 28 May - 23:15

Soul Requiem wrote:
JAS wrote:
That's not what I meant and you know fine well it isn't. But fun marks for keeping up the deflection around this current governments Covid performance. There were around 4000 servicemen/women killed. I'm sure I read somewhere that that the number of British soldiers was around 180. It's 180 too many for sure and like with Covid, hindsight is a wonderful science.

I'm not deflecting away from anything, I asked a question about a comment you made. For the record i've grown tired of the Covid debate, the left feel the government are to blame for everything while the right don't agree, not much point carrying on at this point.

I don't see it as the left blaming the government for everything (although some might). Cummings comments have been interesting from both sides, you have some on the left who were condemning him as an unscrupulous liar a few months ago now wanting to believe every word he says, alternatively you have some on the right who justified his Barnard Castle shenanigans now calling him "unreliable" NEITHER can have it both ways. I also think the opposition have tried to support where they could and agreed with much of the intention. They've been more critical on the edges and on apparent lack of timely execution. Not an easy job to oppose AND support in a National crisis at the same time especially if the feeling is that the Govt are somewhat dithering and making decisions based on their mates pockets rather than the National interest.

For me, I've looked at how the crisis has evolved not through red or blue tinted glasses but in terms of how likely it is to affect me as an apparent "extremely clinical vulnerable person" Overall I've taken responsibility to de-risk myself as much as is reasonable with trying to keep a reasonable lifestyle balance. I would accept that not everyone has done that, you could spoon feed vast swathes of the population detailed guidance and they wouldn't listen/wouldn't get it and that I would accept would make ANY government's job a LOT harder. Part of the job of national leadership in a crisis is to try and get unlistening idiots to follow clear guidance, the starting point for that HAS to be clear guidance. Bottom line though if I feel that they're not getting things right for whatever reason then by definition it ups my risk. If I feel it ups my risk I'll call out what I may see as their failings accordingly NOT because I'm to the left of them.

And don't get me started on the media, they pushed the lockdown easing narrative leading up to xmas when they should have stfu, same with general freedom, holidays and foreign travel when it was quite clear that should been staying locked down, they were nip nip nipping daily at govt press confs...Kuensberg, Rigby & Peston to name but a few...irritating as f***


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Post by McLaren Tue 1 Jun - 20:42

It's a shame Super isn't around anymore, he would have had some "interesting" takes on the Naomi Osaka stuff.
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Post by JAS Wed 2 Jun - 19:34

McLaren wrote:It's a shame Super isn't around anymore, he would have had some "interesting" takes on the Naomi Osaka stuff.

Well he’s not so the floor is all yours...fire away!!

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Post by dynamark Wed 2 Jun - 20:44

Ill have a pop .Osaka(Mr Bond!) must have a manager ,coach,hitting partner chef physio and personal assistant so why does the media turn super sensitive and treat her like an isolated vulnerable youngster ? Im sure there are several in her team who can give support and the media is part of the package thats where the rewards come from.But if she wants to step away then fair enough not the first or last to do so,

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Post by JAS Wed 2 Jun - 23:50

I find it quite hard to make a balanced comment because I know I have a strong anti media bias. The fact is professional tennis players (and footballers and golfers etc etc) are first and foremost professional sportspeople, they are NOT media professionals and therefore shouldn’t be contractually bound to “feed the scrum” at designated “feeding times” Totally get that media coverage brings in sponsorship that in turn converts to big purses for the top players but at the end of the day I’d plump for players rights/player power over media control, media power and contractual obligation every time. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to force players into interviews?

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Post by McLaren Thu 3 Jun - 0:44

Aren't journalists meant to go out and find the stories. Not just ask banal questions in a press conference whether or not the match was interesting or the player has anything worthwhile to offer?
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