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Political round up.............

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Pal Joey
dummy_half
guildfordbat
Afro
GSC
JDizzle
TRUSSMAN66
Luckless Pedestrian
BamBam
king_carlos
Duty281
Dolphin Ziggler
JuliusHMarx
lostinwales
Soul Requiem
Pr4wn
Samo
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Post by Samo Tue 11 May 2021, 6:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

The best thing about our system is that every single person in the country gets an equal vote under equal circumstances. Unless a National ID card scheme is introduced this will just alienate poorer voters. Just another way to rig the system.

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Post by lostinwales Wed 15 Sep 2021, 3:39 pm

Raab now lord justice. Possibly good for the Foreign office. Probably bad for the the legal system

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Post by Samo Wed 15 Sep 2021, 3:41 pm

Raab becomes new Justice secretary, Lord Chancellor and deputy Prime Minister despite the fact he should have been sacked weeks ago.

Sunak stays and Chancellor of the Exchequer.

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Post by Samo Wed 15 Sep 2021, 4:12 pm

Patel stays where she is a Liz “pork products” Truss is new foreign secretary.

Frak hell I think I’d rather have Raab.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 15 Sep 2021, 4:14 pm

I'm quite surprised at the extent of the reshuffle, to be honest, about halfway through the 2019-2024 cycle.

Raab was already effectively Deputy PM, it's just been formalised now to placate him as he's been sacked as foreign secretary. The start of a steady decline for him, hopefully. Unfortunately Liz Truss is the one getting the promotion to foreign secretary.

Gove's probably disappointed to not get foreign secretary, instead getting some rubbish housing thing. Williamson out of education, which had to happen at some point as he has lurched from one disaster to the next.

Surprised Patel is staying. She seems to be disliked by virtually everyone on the political spectrum.

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Post by Samo Wed 15 Sep 2021, 4:29 pm

Duty281 wrote:

Surprised Patel is staying. She seems to be disliked by virtually everyone on the political spectrum.

Tenner says Johnson is shagging her.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 15 Sep 2021, 4:53 pm

That's nauseating.

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Post by dummy_half Wed 15 Sep 2021, 5:04 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That's nauseating.

But possibly the only reason for her still having a job

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Post by Samo Wed 15 Sep 2021, 6:03 pm

Nadine Dorries becoming a cabinet minister is all the proof we will ever need that Johnson is the worst PM ever.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 16 Sep 2021, 9:55 am

It's fine though because there's not much going on at the moment.

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Post by BamBam Thu 16 Sep 2021, 2:07 pm

They are such a talentless bunch it didn't matter which seat they landed on. Its fine though as they all support Brexit, which is all that really matters in 2021

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 16 Sep 2021, 2:22 pm

On the subject of Brexit, did anyone else see Sir Roger Gale's question at PMQs yesterday, and Johnson's inevitably inadequate answer? A huge amount of food is going to waste because there's not enough workers to pick it. Surely there's only so long the Government can hope to hide from the public the consequences of their policies. Johnson even had the nerve to say that this problem had been going on for a long time. Food rotting in the fields? Really?

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Post by Pr4wn Fri 17 Sep 2021, 1:11 am

This Gov are going to milk Covid as an excuse for all it's worth before they admit what a disaster Brexit has been for the UK economy.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 21 Sep 2021, 10:15 am

Canada's General Election showing how awful FPTP is for the second election cycle in a row:

1) The Liberals only securing a minority government again, despite FPTP supposedly delivering 'strong government'.
2) The Liberals gaining seats in the House of Commons despite a decline in share of the national vote between 2019 and 2021.
3) The Conservatives on course to have a greater share of the popular vote than the Liberals for a second time in succession, but finishing up with 39 fewer seats than the Liberals.
4) The New Democratic Party (especially) and Green Party being under-represented in the House of Commons when compared to their vote share.

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Post by dummy_half Tue 21 Sep 2021, 10:39 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:On the subject of Brexit, did anyone else see Sir Roger Gale's question at PMQs yesterday, and Johnson's inevitably inadequate answer? A huge amount of food is going to waste because there's not enough workers to pick it. Surely there's only so long the Government can hope to hide from the public the consequences of their policies. Johnson even had the nerve to say that this problem had been going on for a long time. Food rotting in the fields? Really?

Has been an issue pretty much since the Brexit vote and certainly once the Eastern European workers started to either move home or move on to other countries that appear more welcoming. Not enough young Brits willing to do manual work (much more to be made being an Influencer), and those that do agricultural work are either students doing summer work (I was when I did it) or working cash in hand while also claiming unemployment benefit. It's often not pleasant work and poorly paid, also there are some people being exploited by some of the gang masters.

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Post by dummy_half Tue 21 Sep 2021, 11:01 am

Duty281 wrote:Canada's General Election showing how awful FPTP is for the second election cycle in a row:

1) The Liberals only securing a minority government again, despite FPTP supposedly delivering 'strong government'.
2) The Liberals gaining seats in the House of Commons despite a decline in share of the national vote between 2019 and 2021.
3) The Conservatives on course to have a greater share of the popular vote than the Liberals for a second time in succession, but finishing up with 39 fewer seats than the Liberals.
4) The New Democratic Party (especially) and Green Party being under-represented in the House of Commons when compared to their vote share.

Very similar problems to the British system, although at least this election in Canada hasn't resulted in a majority government based on about 40% vote share, unlike most UK elections (last election the Conservatives got 43.6% of the vote on a 67.3% turn-out and got a 70-odd seat majority based on the votes of just under 30% of eligible voters) - not sure when we last had a majority (or at least plurality) party that actually got fewer votes than their closest opposition, although obviously it is possible with the UK Constituency system). Canada also has an issue similar to the SNP, with a Quebecois party claiming a good number of seats in the province (without checking, I'm not sure whether it is the majority of the Quebec ridings, but 34 is a decent return), and has an increasingly strong third party (although, differing from the UK, this is to the left of the two major parties).

For a while this looked a bit like May's election of 2017 - pre-election polling suggesting Trudeau would be able to strengthen his position and potentially gain a Parliamentary majority, so he called a very early election (previous one was on-going while I was in Canada in 2019). As with TM , he found that the electorate don't appreciate being exploited in that way, and any apparent gain in support withered and for a while it looked like he might even have undermined his support sufficiently to lose power.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 24 Sep 2021, 8:38 pm

Looks like the Unions have kicked out Starmer's plans for electoral change...Peed off he only broached the subject two weeks before conference....Incompetent as ever.

Yougov...

Con 39
Lab 32

Ditch the Clown...He is a joke..

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Post by Pr4wn Sat 25 Sep 2021, 3:30 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Looks like the Unions have kicked out Starmer's plans for electoral change...Peed off he only broached the subject two weeks before conference....Incompetent as ever.

Yougov...

Con 39
Lab 32

Ditch the Clown...He is a joke..

Labour's problem in a nutshell, this.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 Sep 2021, 6:22 pm

As soldiers are put on standby for the energy crisis...As the UK has one of the highest per capita covid death rates and welfare cuts voted through which will hurt 6 million Brits..

Con 39
Lab 31

Could be worse Starmer might not be looking Prime Ministerial .

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Post by Pr4wn Fri 01 Oct 2021, 12:54 am

You know why the Tories win, Truss? It's because they accept the outcome of leadership elections, back their leader and present a united front the the British public come election time.

You can bet your bottom dollar that A LOT of the current Tory MPs cannot stand the sight of Boris Johnson or anyone else in his cabinet, but they do what's best for their party. They STFU and get on with their jobs. And it gets them into government.

Sure, there's a bit of moaning here and there, but absolutely nothing like the quite pathetic bleating coming from the far left of the Labour party right now, who seem to be content in being perpetually out of power as long as they win "the argument", whatever that is.

Face it. Corbyn and his nut job advisers (including Seamus Milne, a real piece of work) lost two consecutive elections, the latest gifting a huge majority to Boris Flipping Johnson. Labour were elected in just 202 seats, its worst result since 1935. Those are facts. You can dispute why they lost that election, but lose it they did.

Corbyn then resigned and Starmer convincingly won the leadership election and has yet to face a general election.

So the question for the far left of the Labour Party now becomes: Are you content with perpetual opposition as long as you can bleat about policies which the British public has democratically rejected time and time again? Or are you willing to, as the Tories have done, swallow your pride and stand behind the leader of your party who was democratically elected so that your party has a genuine chance of making a real difference to the lives of the British people?

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 01 Oct 2021, 9:38 am

It's worth adding on to that post Pr4wn that in the lead up to the 2019 election Boris Johnson effectively purged the party of any dissenting voices including some real heavy hitters; Stewart, Hammond, Clarke etc.

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Post by lostinwales Fri 01 Oct 2021, 10:21 am

Soul Requiem wrote:It's worth adding on to that post Pr4wn that in the lead up to the 2019 election Boris Johnson effectively purged the party of any dissenting voices including some real heavy hitters; Stewart, Hammond, Clarke etc.

Yes. I'd have thought Labour would do better dumping the nutters even if it meant losing a significant proportion of their membership, because the people who will vote them in if they win won't be members anyway.

As an aside I am astonished that so many people seem to support the current version of the Conservatives, as with the loss of so many of those heavy hitters it has changed so much.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 01 Oct 2021, 10:48 am

lostinwales wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:It's worth adding on to that post Pr4wn that in the lead up to the 2019 election Boris Johnson effectively purged the party of any dissenting voices including some real heavy hitters; Stewart, Hammond, Clarke etc.

Yes. I'd have thought Labour would do better dumping the nutters even if it meant losing a significant proportion of their membership, because the people who will vote them in  if they win won't be members anyway.

As an aside I am astonished that so many people seem to support the current version of the Conservatives, as with the loss of so many of those heavy hitters it has changed so much.

I'm not too hot on the inner workings of the Labour party but can imagine the NEC makes dumping the nutters quite difficult.

It depends to what extent you think people vote positively, i'd wager that potentially a majority of voters vote negatively in that it's a rejection of the other party. I know a fair few 'Labour voters' who are of the attitude of anyone but the Tories and don't have a clue about the policies of either party.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 01 Oct 2021, 6:41 pm

French Presidential Election poll..

Macron 54
Lepen...46

Nothing a good campaign from Lepen couldn't override...

Far right gaining support in L'Hexagone....

Yougov USA

Biden approvals..

App....40
Disap..49

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Post by Samo Sat 02 Oct 2021, 10:34 am

Sometimes I think the far left of the Labour party are happy being the perpetual opposition, its a lot easier shouting from the other side of the house than it is actually running the country.

Then theres people like Owen Jones who seem to think Britain will become a socialist utopia overnight. Not going to happen. Its going to take years, and it starts with a more centre-left government to lay the ground work, show the public the results and build on it.

Unfortunately the sad truth about Brits and our political discourse is its the newspapers who decide who the winner is long before a vote is cast - and this has only been exaggerated by social media.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 02 Oct 2021, 11:32 am

Owen Jones is another gift for the Tories. When you're in power the nutters have less of an influence, people when undecided tend to vote for the status quo. Jones however gives those people a reason to stick rather than twist. I tend to think it's the right wing media who push him rather than the left.

The past 42 years have shown us that it's easier to stay in power than to get into power.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sat 02 Oct 2021, 6:36 pm

Jones hates the Tories....He can see like the rest of us Starmer is a busted flush..

Give it Burnham or Cooper..

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Post by Duty281 Sun 03 Oct 2021, 1:01 pm

Three Labour MPs rumoured to be considering switching to the Tories. If it happens, if, it will be a colossal blow to Starmer's struggling leadership.

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Post by Samo Sun 03 Oct 2021, 4:16 pm

If you're leaving the Labour party and joining the Tories I'd wager you never really were Labour to begin with.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sun 03 Oct 2021, 4:35 pm

Some politicians do straddle the divide on different issues; the two most obvious being Rory Stewart and Kate Hoey. The pair could have stood for either party.

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Post by Samo Mon 04 Oct 2021, 4:56 am

Finding common ground on some issues isnt unheard of, but if you say “I disagree with Starners leadership” and join the Tories that suggests you dont think he’s right wing enough, in which case theres bigger things at play.

Atleast when Chukka Umuna left Labour because he disagreed with Corbyn he moved into the centre ground. It was career suicide but it played more in line with the “disagreeing with leadership” schtick.

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Post by lostinwales Mon 04 Oct 2021, 2:47 pm

Duty281 wrote:Three Labour MPs rumoured to be considering switching to the Tories. If it happens, if, it will be a colossal blow to Starmer's struggling leadership.

The suggestion is that this rumor is complete BS, but makes for a nice little distraction

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 06 Oct 2021, 6:21 pm

Yougov.. Labour leader approval ratings among those that voted Labour in 2019

Corbyn. ...51%
Brown..... 49%
Mikiband..44%
Starmer. ..34%
Blair......... 25%

Not good is it ?,

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Post by Pr4wn Thu 07 Oct 2021, 12:43 am

After that Johnson speech the Corbyn rump are moaning about Starmer.

Tells you everything you need to know about the current state of the Labour party.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 07 Oct 2021, 10:47 am

Labour has to marginalise or dump the nutters that Corbyn 'empowered' because the general population really don't like them. Starmer has done a lot to fix that particular problem. We'll see if its enough when the next GE comes up.

Regardless of his personal views Corbyn has been one of the best things to happen to the Conservatives in the last few years.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Oct 2021, 1:41 pm

Some pretty strong stuff here:

'Speaking to the BBC's Today programme, Iceland's managing director, Richard Walker, said ambitions on wages "need to be backed up by action" to help firms with wider cost increases.

'"It's inevitable that we will see price rises... our margins are very tight and we're not just an endless sponge.

'"Pointing the finger and choosing us as the bogeymen for issues such as HGV driver shortages... is simply not helpful."

'Responding to Mr Johnson's conference speech, Federation of Small Businesses (FSB) national chair Mike Cherry said that the prime minister's vision did not "match the current lived realities of small businesses and sole traders".

'Mr Cherry said that "ambitious" policies to drive growth and reduce tax at the autumn Budget were needed.

'Small firms who face supply chain disruptions, staff shortages and business taxes, Mr Cherry said, had been hoping to hear a "practical, clear action plan" from the government, but "been left wanting".

'"You have to start with reducing upfront business taxes and costs to unlock investment in training, recruitment and innovation. If you think that process works in reverse, you're putting the cart before the horse", Mr Cherry added.

'Shevaun Haviland, director general of the British Chambers of Commerce, agreed that what businesses "urgently" needed were answers to the problems they are facing "in the here and now".

'"The economic recovery is on shaky ground and if it stalls then the private sector investment and tax revenues that the prime minister wants to fuel his vision will be in short supply."

'Addressing the issue of staff shortages, Ms Haviland said firms "need much more flexibility" for people to access training and qualifications.

'Tony Danker, the head of the CBI business lobby group, said that while the prime minister set out a "compelling vision" for the country's economic future, "ambition" on wages "without action on investment and productivity is ultimately just a pathway for higher prices".

'He added that at a "fragile moment" for the economy, companies need "action on skills, on investment and on productivity".'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58815961

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Post by Samo Fri 08 Oct 2021, 5:50 pm

We havent even implemented customs checks on EU imports yet. Its going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

Still, sovereignty and all that eh?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 11 Oct 2021, 10:55 am

I honestly don't know how the Government expects any of this to play out. I suppose it's possible that they just don't want to think about it, so there's this nebulous idea that it'll all just magically fix itself. The question for the rest of us is how much damage, reputational and otherwise, the UK has to suffer before someone grasps these various nettles.

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Post by Pr4wn Tue 12 Oct 2021, 6:08 am

The Brexit cheerleading is unsurprisingly very muted these days. Not just on here.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 12 Oct 2021, 8:52 am

Pr4wn wrote:The Brexit cheerleading is unsurprisingly very muted these days. Not just on here.

The headlines this morning are really not going to help at all. 'UK start to pandemic worst public health failure ever'

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 14 Oct 2021, 4:25 pm

Kantar poll..

Con 43 +6
Lab.30 -4

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Post by Samo Fri 15 Oct 2021, 3:15 pm

Conservative MP Sir David Amess was stabbed multiple times in his constituency office, and later died after being air ambulanced to hospital. The assailant has been arrested and police arent looking for anyone else. Its unclear what the motive was at this time.

Horrible, you hate to see it. Thoughts are with his family.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 15 Oct 2021, 3:41 pm

Bloody hell.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 15 Oct 2021, 5:20 pm

Horrendous. Thoughts are with his family.

That's the second MP killed in just over 5 years after Jo Cox also being murdered. It will presumably raise serious question over whether MPs need more security.

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