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England's Summer of Cricket 2021

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Post by JDizzle Tue 06 Jul 2021, 10:21 am

First topic message reminder :

Jacks, Crawley, Hain, Stokes, Salt (WK), Lawrence, Gregory, Overton, Saqib, Ball, Parkinson?

Will MacPherson suggests Hales won’t be picked, which is a bit odd given they hinted he would get a chance this summer.

You also have Vince, Duckett and keep an eye out for Harry Brook.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 10 Jul 2021, 12:16 pm

47 overs a side, both teams unchanged, Pakistan winning the toss and bowling first. Good toss to win.

Always seems daft to reduce a game by such a small number of overs.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 10 Jul 2021, 12:54 pm

Pakistan bowling well, but England rather gifting them a good start. Crawley out for a golden duck after poor defence, Malan edged one behind earlier. Salt swinging at everything, not sure how long he'll last.


Last edited by Duty281 on Sat 10 Jul 2021, 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by alfie Sat 10 Jul 2021, 1:00 pm

All over the place , the batting , so far...likely to be shot out for 120 if they don't settle down.

Vince - of course - looks edgey . But doesn't that cover drive look great when he gets it right ?

Pakistan bowlers testing England here ; perhaps it's the day when 'Good Pakistan" will turn up...

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Post by Duty281 Sat 10 Jul 2021, 1:32 pm

Extraordinary fortune for these two. Reckless doesn't do it justice. But the ball keeps finding the boundary rope.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 10 Jul 2021, 2:03 pm

Vince outclassed by Shadab, didn't pick a single ball that over and duly gets his stumps knocked back.

134/4. Excellent run-rate, but there's not much batting left.

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Post by alfie Sat 10 Jul 2021, 2:32 pm

Am watching the tennis...but whenever I pop back to the cricket England have lost another wicket !

160/7. Not going to last the overs , are they ?

Funny game , this 50 over stuff...

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Post by Duty281 Sat 10 Jul 2021, 2:33 pm

Not England's day as they fall apart in the gloom.

160/7. Awful decision to give Overton not out, amended by review.

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Post by alfie Sat 10 Jul 2021, 3:29 pm

Checking back again just in time to see Gregory out for a very handy forty...he and Carse seem to have turned things around with a vital stand . 229/8 with six and half to go , eh ?

Could be competitive.

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Post by alfie Sat 10 Jul 2021, 3:41 pm

Carse gone too , now ? Hmm. Looking like sub 250 chase for Pakistan...


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Post by Duty281 Sat 10 Jul 2021, 4:33 pm

Some good shots from Gregory in particular got England up to a defendable 247. Would still fancy Pakistan to chase that down, but Gregory has picked up an early wicket.

Should be a competitive chase in decent bowling conditions. Much prefer these types of ODIs over the dull 300+ scores.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 10 Jul 2021, 6:48 pm

Good bowling from Mahmood, Overton and Gregory in favourable conditions has seen England to the verge of a highly impressive series win.

Pakistan's chase never really got going.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 10 Jul 2021, 9:23 pm

There’s really no reason Mahmood shouldn’t be in the first XI squad when it’s back over the likes of Curran/Willey - great to see him taking his chance, after a long time banging the door down
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Post by alfie Sun 11 Jul 2021, 5:32 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:There’s really no reason Mahmood shouldn’t be in the first XI squad when it’s back over the likes of Curran/Willey - great to see him taking his chance, after a long time banging the door down

Really impressed by Mahmood in these two matches ! Definitely a chance for the squad.

His problem in actually making the XI is probably his lack of batting credentials though. When you have non-batters like Archer Rashid and Wood in the side the other two bowlers really need to be proper all rounders.

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Post by alfie Sun 11 Jul 2021, 5:37 am

Only watched the early part of the Pakistan innings. Which was enough to convince me they were unlikely to get near the England total. Maybe they still haven't acclimatized or something but their performances so far don't say much for their short term white ball prospects.

Perhaps the t20 will be more competitive.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 11 Jul 2021, 3:56 pm

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:There’s really no reason Mahmood shouldn’t be in the first XI squad when it’s back over the likes of Curran/Willey - great to see him taking his chance, after a long time banging the door down

Really impressed by Mahmood in these two matches ! Definitely a chance for the squad.

His problem in actually making the XI is probably his lack of batting credentials though. When you have non-batters like Archer Rashid and Wood in the side the other two bowlers really need to be proper all rounders.

Saqib strikes me as our best white ball back up for Archer and Wood. He can bowl quick and take wickets up top in the powerplay and bowl well at the death. He isn't quite as quick and as of yet isn't as good as Archer or Wood but I think he's our next best for that role.

It's disappointing for Garton to not get a chance to push for that role though. He can hit a long ball as well and offers the left arm angle at pace.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 13 Jul 2021, 12:38 pm

Two more unchanged sides. England putting Pakistan into bat. Will Pakistan's top three make a telling contribution this time?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 13 Jul 2021, 12:55 pm

Pretty disappointed the likes of Jacks/Lawrence haven't been given a game in this one.
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Post by JDizzle Tue 13 Jul 2021, 1:27 pm

Different format and all, but when Saqib has taken as many new ball wickets as he has this series and England were struggling for early wickets all winter in the T20s he has to come into the reckoning.

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Post by guildfordbat Tue 13 Jul 2021, 2:08 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Pretty disappointed the likes of Jacks/Lawrence haven't been given a game in this one.

Yes, disappointing not only for those not given a game but also for their counties who have had their recent Blast and Championship preparations disrupted without even any satisfaction or bragging rights about their players being England internationals.

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Post by king_carlos Tue 13 Jul 2021, 2:32 pm

JDizzle wrote:Different format and all, but when Saqib has taken as many new ball wickets as he has this series and England were struggling for early wickets all winter in the T20s he has to come into the reckoning.

I'd be parachuting him into the T20 squad for the World Cup for sure. As said above he just seems by a distance our best back up for Archer and Wood.

Buttler, Roy, Malan, Bairstow, Stokes, Morgan, Moeen, Livingstone, Surran, Woakes, Archer, Wood, Rashid

I'd bet on those 13 being nailed on to be in the squad now that Woakes has been recalled for T20is.

That leaves 3 spots. I'd presume one will go to a seamer/pace bowler which for me would see Mahmood beat out Turran, Willey and Topley. Another I think will go to a specialist spinner given it's in the UAE which will presumably be between Dawson, Briggs and Parkinson. The third free spot for my money should be Hales but perhaps Banton or Billings will nip it.

The other wild card is Root. He was excellent at the last T20 World Cup, offers some useful spin and plays the conditions this World Cup will be in very well. I just don't see it happening though given the work load Root already has and the Ashes coming straight after.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 13 Jul 2021, 3:18 pm

Matt Parkinson just screams playing the 5th Ashes test at Sydney in January, with England 3-0 down in the series, to me
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Post by alfie Tue 13 Jul 2021, 3:24 pm

Forgot this was on...see that Pakistan are apparently going to give England 3 a significant target to chase this time ?

Very flat pitch and good batting or has the England bowling been a bit off ?

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Post by Duty281 Tue 13 Jul 2021, 3:28 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Matt Parkinson just screams playing the 5th Ashes test at Sydney in January, with England 3-0 down in the series, to me

Then never plays another test, like Borthwick and Crane. It's tradition.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 13 Jul 2021, 3:30 pm

alfie wrote:Forgot this was on...see that Pakistan are apparently going to give England 3 a significant target to chase this time ?

Very flat pitch and good batting or has the England bowling been a bit off ?

Pitch is flat, and Babar isn't missing out today it seems. Pretty unlikely he was going to go the full series without a score.
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Post by alfie Tue 13 Jul 2021, 3:37 pm

Thanks , Olly.

Batsmen indeed seem pretty comfortable since I switched on. As you say , Babar is rather better than the first two games suggested!

Gregory, Parkinson and Stokes seem to have gone for a few.

Will be interesting to see how this batting lineup copes with having to chase something like 300 ...

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Post by Duty281 Tue 13 Jul 2021, 3:45 pm

It was a very slow start from Babar, think it took 14/15 balls to get off the mark, but it's been a top-quality ODI knock with his customary exceptional timing.

Didn't think Pakistan's top three would fail three games in a row and they haven't. Could be on for 320 here.

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Post by guildfordbat Tue 13 Jul 2021, 4:08 pm

Hi Alfie - just to add, Ul-Haq usefully helped put Pakistan on their way with 56 but would have been lbw to Mahmood in the opening over had we reviewed. There seemed to be more than just the usual noise of ball hitting bat in real time and sound which probably discouraged the review but replays showed it was pad only.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 13 Jul 2021, 4:14 pm

284/2 with 5 to go. Should be 340 from this position, maybe as high as 360.

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Post by alfie Tue 13 Jul 2021, 4:45 pm

Handy burst of late wickets from Carse and Mahmood keeping it a bit south of that ... Short ball paying off for Carse !

But even 329 plus whatever the rabbits can muster from the last two balls should be a bit much for this England batting list .

Hell of a knock for Babar clap

331 it is. A winning total I'm betting...but good luck to England bats.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 13 Jul 2021, 4:45 pm

'Only' 331. Tough chase for England.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 13 Jul 2021, 5:30 pm

Textbook batsmen don’t always know they’ve hit it, non review from Malan
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 13 Jul 2021, 6:02 pm

Zak Crawley and James Vince hitting cover drives, and that is, what I want
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 13 Jul 2021, 6:47 pm

143-3 off 19 in reply - only failed to hit a boundary in one over so far. Game is brewing nicely, albeit with England not batting as deep as usual, Pakistan still favourites here
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Post by Duty281 Tue 13 Jul 2021, 6:53 pm

And just lost Stokes which tips it decisively in Pakistan's favour.

Probably Simpson's last ODI innings, make it one to remember.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 13 Jul 2021, 7:02 pm

Duty281 wrote:And just lost Stokes which tips it decisively in Pakistan's favour.

Probably Simpson's last ODI innings, make it one to remember.

Certainly Simpson’s chance to become something more than an answer you don't get on a Wisden Sporcle quiz in 5 years time.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 13 Jul 2021, 7:08 pm

And he’s out - not really sure why he’s played ahead of Duckett tbh
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 13 Jul 2021, 7:31 pm

There’s an alternate universe where James Vince doesn’t run himself out for 83 at the Gabba and has a successful decade long international career
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Post by JDizzle Tue 13 Jul 2021, 8:21 pm

So very pleased for James Vince. You could tell that meant a lot to him. Always been a personal favourite to watch. Now go on and win the game.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 13 Jul 2021, 8:55 pm

Bloody magnificent chase and performance from what is essentially an England C side plus Ben Stokes (who was pretty crap all series!)

Legit need to find a way to play two ODI/T20 sides - must be allowed for my personal satisfaction
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Post by Duty281 Tue 13 Jul 2021, 8:58 pm

That was a bloody brilliant chase and one of the most impressive ODI series wins I've seen from an England side. England C 3-0 Pakistan.

Gregory has shown tremendous worth with bat and ball. Mahmood must be in the frame for a more regular starting spot. And Vince has shown he's worth keeping around, at least for a little while longer.

T20s up next. Don't know what side England will be fielding!

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Post by JDizzle Tue 13 Jul 2021, 8:58 pm

An England team chasing 331 in 2015 would have seemed ridiculously far fetched. They've just done it with their B/C team. Unbelievable.

Pakistan were awful in the field, and their bowling wasn't great today either - but take absolutely nothing away from England. Brilliant performance.

Salt, Mahmood and Carse in particular have done their white ball chances no end of good going forward.

Gregory and Vince obviously have had good series too, but Vince's path to the first team is well blocked by Livingstone, Banton, Billings and Moeen (+ Salt?) as reserves and Gregory isn't really a good enough bowler to get in with that as his specialist suit. Brilliant knocks from both tonight though.

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Post by JDizzle Tue 13 Jul 2021, 9:00 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Bloody magnificent chase and performance from what is essentially an England C side plus Ben Stokes (who was pretty crap all series!)

Legit need to find a way to play two ODI/T20 sides - must be allowed for my personal satisfaction

Such strong Australia A vibes - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994–95_Australian_Tri-Series

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 13 Jul 2021, 9:49 pm

If Mahmood isn’t in the t20 squad announced tomorrow morning I’m gonna throw hands
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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 13 Jul 2021, 9:51 pm

Mahmood looks a bit special, I don't think it will be long til he's in the test side, certainly has the pace and accuracy for it.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 13 Jul 2021, 9:54 pm

JDizzle wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Bloody magnificent chase and performance from what is essentially an England C side plus Ben Stokes (who was pretty crap all series!)

Legit need to find a way to play two ODI/T20 sides - must be allowed for my personal satisfaction

Such strong Australia A vibes - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994–95_Australian_Tri-Series

I miss those tri (and quad) nation tournaments. Used to break up the monotony of endless bilateral ODI series.

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Post by alfie Wed 14 Jul 2021, 4:13 am

Wow. Just watched the highlight programme - without checking scores - and delighted/very surprised to see a successful chase down of that intimidating target of 332 .

Vince and Gregory most impressive. Good fast start from Salt...indeed this "reserve" team played very much as the first choice XI would do : not daunted ; go for it from the off ; no panic even when wickets fell...and the depth they didn't appear to have still got them home even when the main scorers fell with victory in sight but not quite assured...

Some dodgy Pakistan fielding but full credit to England for that win thumbsup

Just to endorse some comments I'm reading above : yes , Soul : Mahmood indeed looks a Test prospect to my eyes (apart from having shown how good he can be in the white ball stuff). Gregory looks a very handy all rounder but as JD says his bowling unfortunately won't quite cut it - looks like cannon fodder on a flat pitch.

Vince and Salt just have too many ahead of them , I think. Even without Voldemort Hales. But possibly there could be a reserve spot in dispute still ?

Will be interesting to see who plays the rest of the white ball games this year. With Covid around : you just never know.

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Post by dummy_half Wed 14 Jul 2021, 10:01 am

Can't help feeling that century might be Vince's England swan song - just think there are a few too many ahead of him in the hierarchy now in all formats, and he's been given several opportunities. For all his obvious stroke paying ability and stylishness, he is a player that averages 39 in first class cricket and 25 in Tests, so the flaws keep getting him out.

Overall an interesting series - the having to play largely a B/C team because of the COVID situation created interesting opportunities for those on the fringes, and there are definitely a few (Mahmood in particular) who have risen to the challenge impressively, while there are a couple of players who will just have been glad of the opportunity to win an England cap or two in slightly strange circumstances (e.g. Simpson).

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Post by Duty281 Wed 14 Jul 2021, 12:21 pm

T20 squad named: Eoin Morgan (Middlesex - captain), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Jake Ball (Nottinghamshire), Tom Banton (Somerset), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Tom Curran (Surrey), Lewis Gregory (Somerset), Chris Jordan (Sussex), Liam Livingstone (Lancashire), Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire), Dawid Malan (Yorkshire), Matt Parkinson (Lancashire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), David Willey (Yorkshire).

Mahmood and Parkinson given their chance. T Curran persisted with. Stokes, Wood, Woakes and S Curran all 'rested'. Woakes still the most rested player in world cricket, so rested he's nearly retired! Otherwise it's pretty much full-strength.

This is the last international series before the Hundred starts. Apparently the ECB may prevent any of the England test players from participating in it because they don't want to jeopardise the England-India test series with cases of Covid.

Just to clarify with Woakes - since the 19th of April he has played a grand total of six T20s (two for his county's second team, two for his county, two for England) and two ODIs. That's all the cricket he has played in that time.

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Post by dummy_half Wed 14 Jul 2021, 1:01 pm

Strong rumours that Wood, Woakes and Surran were the three positive COVID cases (or hae tested positive subsequently), which would make sense for their absence. In particular, Woakes has had more rest than many dead people over the last three months, so makes no sense if he is fit and available.

Agree that Turran is a bit lucky to retain a place, and not quite sure how Jake Ball is in the squad, but otherwise looks a pretty good selection with Mahmood and Gregory being rewarded for their performances in the last week. Could argue a case for Salt over Banton, but not convinced either would get much playing time bar injury.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 14 Jul 2021, 2:27 pm

Yeah it seems to make sense that Wood, Woakes and Sam Curran were the positive tests, I don't think they'd be leaving all three out if they didn't have too.

Otherwise squad seems ok - albeit Garton seems to have been discarded rather quickly, which seems a shame (unless he has also tested positive!). I hope Banton gets a game, they dragged him away from Somerset when he was finding some blistering form after a really rough 9-12 months, to do that and then just have him miss out for various reasons feels a bit of a stunt in his progress to me.
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