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England's Summer of Cricket 2021

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eirebilly
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Post by JDizzle Tue 06 Jul 2021, 10:21 am

First topic message reminder :

Jacks, Crawley, Hain, Stokes, Salt (WK), Lawrence, Gregory, Overton, Saqib, Ball, Parkinson?

Will MacPherson suggests Hales won’t be picked, which is a bit odd given they hinted he would get a chance this summer.

You also have Vince, Duckett and keep an eye out for Harry Brook.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 12 Aug 2021, 7:27 pm

A terrific day for India. Rohit setting the tone then Rahul batting superbly after weathering the tougher conditions.

I have a feeling this wicket will get easier to bat on day 2 and day 3 so if England can get early breakthroughs tomorrow and keep India below 400 they aren't totally out of it. I also fear that the India bowlers will be more disciplined than England were and they have lots of experience bowling on slow, flat tracks.

If Rahul and Rahane can at through the first hour tomorrow then India will be very well poised for Pant and Jadeja to play their natural game and take things away England.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 12 Aug 2021, 7:30 pm

Decent end to the day for England, just couldn't get a fourth wicket which wasn't too far away. Days two and three are generally the best for Lord's batting-wise, so even though England didn't make the most of the bowling conditions early on, they're not out of it and there's plenty to be optimistic about.

Main aim here has to be to keep India under 375, under 350 if possible. One good spell early tomorrow will expose that lengthy tail.

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Post by msp83 Thu 12 Aug 2021, 7:32 pm

So 276-3 at stumps. Being put in to bat under overcast conditions, India would take this very happily. A brilliant opening act between Rohit Sharma and the yet undefeated KL Rahul gave them the platform, and Rahul continued to build on in the company of skipper Virat Kohli, who along with Cheteshwar Pujara, gave away their wickets playing poor shots to keep England alive in the contest.
From the first half-hour itself, it didn't seem like a win toss-bowl first track. More of a typical HQ track, a bit slow, with no extravagant help for the bowlers. The Dukes always will keep the bowler involved, but even without the sun coming out strongly, there wasn't anything great for the bowlers. And when the bowlers had a bit more help available, both Rahul and Rohit ensured they showed great discipline to survive . Rohit kept taking the short ball on, but remained disciplined outside off, and it required a really good bit of bowling from Anderson to get him. If only Kohli showed similar discipline after he got set, India's position would have been even better.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 12 Aug 2021, 7:32 pm

msp83 wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
msp83 wrote:On a day Both Sam Curran and Mark Wood leaked plenty of runs, the much maligned Moeen Ali stands out for his decent economy.

Just because people criticise Mo's inconsistency doesn't mean he's the only cricketer ever criticised. There are plenty of England fans who don't rate Curran and wonder why Wood gets picked so much at home.
Of course, Carlos,
But had it been Moeen in place of Curran or Wood, we would never have heard the end of it!

Worth noting I think that Mo's economy isn't that much better than Curran's today (3.08 for Mo to 3.22 for Curran) but Curran looked the more threatening at times despite his inaccuracy as he was beating the edge. Despite their similar figures Curran has come in for a lot of flack and Mo almost none from what I've seen on here, commentary and TMS text feed.

I thought Mo bowled OK although perhaps a bit straight. He was clearly trying to make the batsman play which is great but with little turn available it was easy to see off and milk. I'd have preferred him to look for more of a Nathan Lyon style 4th or 5th stump line today where he has the potential to challenge both edges, even if doing so is fairly unlikely on day 1.

Mo going wicketless was the least England's issues today though.

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Post by msp83 Thu 12 Aug 2021, 7:39 pm

Getting back to the Ashwin non-selection, have a feeling Kohli already may have reasons to regret his choice. The ball hasn't been moving round corners even for James Anderson. getting batters out on this track would take more than the pitch. Someone like Ashwin, with his ability to defeat batters in the air, could have been a good strike option that Jadeja may struggle to become in the first innings regardless of him being the best left-arm spinner in the world currently.

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Post by msp83 Thu 12 Aug 2021, 7:47 pm

king_carlos wrote:
msp83 wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
msp83 wrote:On a day Both Sam Curran and Mark Wood leaked plenty of runs, the much maligned Moeen Ali stands out for his decent economy.

Just because people criticise Mo's inconsistency doesn't mean he's the only cricketer ever criticised. There are plenty of England fans who don't rate Curran and wonder why Wood gets picked so much at home.
Of course, Carlos,
But had it been Moeen in place of Curran or Wood, we would never have heard the end of it!

Worth noting I think that Mo's economy isn't that much better than Curran's today (3.08 for Mo to 3.22 for Curran) but Curran looked the more threatening at times despite his inaccuracy as he was beating the edge. Despite their similar figures Curran has come in for a lot of flack and Mo almost none from what I've seen on here, commentary and TMS text feed.

I thought Mo bowled OK although perhaps a bit straight. He was clearly trying to make the batsman play which is great but with little turn available it was easy to see off and milk. I'd have preferred him to look for more of a Nathan Lyon style 4th or 5th stump line today where he has the potential to challenge both edges, even if doing so is fairly unlikely on day 1.

Mo going wicketless was the least England's issues today though.
Think Sam's economy was helped by India shutting shop in the last few overs. Moeen bowled his first spell when Rohit and Rahul were already well set. Curran actually seems a touch flat throughout the series so far. Think the moment Woakes is fit, they should probably get him back in. Curran has a fabulous match-turning record against India and he's a cricketer who can make things happen. He's one of those players for whom I have a soft spot though he has been a serious irritant for India across formats in his career so far. He may yet do it with the ball, though not hopefully before the last session tomorrow!

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Post by msp83 Thu 12 Aug 2021, 7:49 pm

As for Moeen bowling an outside off line, don't think the context or condition would have justified it. Had he done that on this track, there were every chance of him going for a lot more than he did. there was nothing from the track that he could have worked with. And he's not Ravichandran Ashwin or Nathan Lyon...

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 12 Aug 2021, 7:52 pm

alfie wrote:
...

As for the bowl first option : Richie Benaud always said you judge that at six o'clock not 12.30.  But certainly India will be happy with the action so far...

And come stumps at the modern version of six o'clock, India will certainly still be happy. That's even with Robinson's late wicket of Kohli which meant England had a bad day rather than an awful one.

I like to think Benaud might have said - that doesn't mean Root's decision to bowl first was wrong but England have not done enough to justify it.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 12 Aug 2021, 9:39 pm

Bloody Kohli lost toss.......again
God bless the kind hearted Root who two in two games donated the better option to India England's Summer of Cricket 2021 - Page 17 1f604

India's big 3 are no longer that big, esp Pujara, who has Mayank & SKY breathing down his neck.....but boy how Rahul is playing is unbelievable.....give that he was not among the top 3 openers......not even selected as an opener...and got in only by queer fate of Mayank being hit in the nets

Rahul at the start of his career sparkled brilliantly.......had 90s and 100s in Lanka, Aus....was with limited strokes, had a great leave outsdie the off stump and played very very closed to his body...and that's how he has been playing in this series.
Has completely cut out the across the line legside play that he developed to become really successful in limited over formats esp T20s

Rohit is putting mind over matter......almost cut loose today, bu not quite
Not giving a Nightwatchman to Rahane was inhuman..BUT....such is the state of Indian tailenders ....that none could be trusted to hold 4 overs and ....all 4 tailenders could have been wiped out in those 4 overs with new ball

Not playing Ashwin is a mistake......but Root's gift of letting him bat first & the top order has probably enabled Kohli to dodge this bullet

The pitch in second half showed signs of keeping low.....I can recall the one that got Rohit & one from Ali that Kohli inside edged for four.....kept low
doesn't augur well for the team batting fourth


Last edited by KP_fan on Thu 12 Aug 2021, 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by KP_fan Thu 12 Aug 2021, 9:46 pm

msp83 wrote:And the most disappointing thing about that Kohli dismissal was the way he got out. Trying to defend a ball that he needn't have played at! Not unfamiliar for Virat. He had made a habit of it in 2014. Just what an untimely waste from Kohli!.

Kohli is not on top of his game......at best he struggles and scratches to 40s, 50s and 60s
The question is if this is a dip in form...or the beginning of a terminal decline England's Summer of Cricket 2021 - Page 17 2753
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Post by KP_fan Thu 12 Aug 2021, 9:50 pm

Duty281 wrote:Wood and Curran have both carried more threat than Moeen today. Moeen is a nothing selection, has been easily milked and posed little danger to India. Root could have bowled Moeen's overs and achieved the same result (or perhaps a little better).
Not for no reason is he called Maligned Ali
Very Happy
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Post by Duty281 Thu 12 Aug 2021, 10:22 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Wood and Curran have both carried more threat than Moeen today. Moeen is a nothing selection, has been easily milked and posed little danger to India. Root could have bowled Moeen's overs and achieved the same result (or perhaps a little better).
Not for no reason is he called Maligned Ali
Very Happy

Not for no reason he is maligned.

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Post by alfie Fri 13 Aug 2021, 4:08 am

So : very much India's day , due to some splendid batting from Rohit and Rahul. Both were excellent.
I don't quite agree with some of the criticism of the England bowling. Could have been more incisive - sure. But by and large they were pretty steady , barring a few Curran overs which were pretty much gifts of runs...just wasn't the extra touch of inspiration needed for mass break through , apart from one Anderson spell. Wood was expensive ; but you could also argue he didn't have much luck and might easily have had a couple of wickets on another day : control isn't really his main job. I do feel he might have been employed a little earlier.
Seems to me there is always more negativity around a bowling performance when you have sent the opposition in. Had India won the toss and batted the day would probably be seen in a slightly different light - though obviously would still have been a massive win for them anyway.

The late wicket of Kohli perhaps gives England some hope of mounting a comeback if they can grab a couple of quick wickets in the morning : ball is still new , and Rahane didn't look that secure in the late overs. But on the other hand : if they don't break through early I dread to think what Pant and Jadeja might do to them later on ! Probably wouldn't even need those 4 bowlers to bat at all...

The weather is , I gather , likely to improve greatly and remain generally fine for the rest of the game. So you'd think batting should be easier over the next couple of days - though the pitch might quicken up a bit. Theoretically that suggests England ought not be intimidated should they face a large total . However they have had a recent habit of not faring very well under scoreboard pressure so I'm not taking anything for granted. It is possible India might regret not including Ashwin later in the match ; but given they also wanted to bowl first I can understand why they opted to go with four pace men. They have enough variation and class in their group to give England a tough time even on a basically benign surface.

The Moeen selection for England really made no difference one way or the other on day one : he was tidy enough but posed no threat - it would be unreasonable to expect any spinner to have done so on a slow first day pitch like this. Given India won't have to bat last it probably won't be a very fair test of his potential value to the side so he will hopefully produce something of value with the bat. Batting very deep is at least one thing England can cling to as a plus from their struggle to balance the team and it is difficult to see how they might have put together a more effective bowling attack for this game. I suppose one might with 20/20 hindsight suggest Overton could have been a better bet than Curran but that would be guesswork. They do miss Stokes for the ability to make something happen out of nowhere ...

Could be a big day on Friday. I raised the possibility before the first game that this Indian side could conceivably sweep the series given their overall strength and the apparent disarray in the England ranks. Home team dodged a bullet last week via the weather ; but if they get hammered in this match something like 3-0 to India would loom as a real threat so England really do need to fight back and prove to themselves as much as any watchers that they can compete in the series. I think we have already seen that the old expectation that Indian bats can't handle English conditions is no longer something that can be taken for granted. Rohit and Rahul have seen to that. Well done them thumbsup

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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 10:51 am

A cliched big first hour then - England need at least two wickets, preferably three or more, to have a realistic chance in this test. Keeping India below 375 is key. But if Rahul and Rahane can negotiate the opening hour with no alarms, a 450+ score is on.

I also think it's only the Indian openers who have confounded expectations on Indian batting in English conditions. The middle-order have, so far, looked as expected.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:01 am

There we go!

Terrible delivery from Robinson, Rahul somehow drives it straight to cover. Sorely needed for England.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:08 am

And Anderson nips out Rahane off his first ball of the morning. Yahoo

Not so bad now, is it? 282/5, En-ger-land on top. Let's hope they can wrap it up swiftly, not let Bumrah make 30-odd.

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Post by GSC Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:11 am

Suddenly a foothold for England to claw their way into the game. Big hour ahead with Pant and Jadeja
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Post by VTR Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:11 am

It's a desperately needed start, but still reckon India will get 350 at worst, even that will be a challenging total for England to respond to

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:12 am

The end is nigh for Pujara and Rahane, neither have looked in form for a long time so might be time to bring in some new blood. Both have been great servants to India.

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Post by msp83 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:12 am

What a turn around of fortunes for England and India. Horrer start for India, England would have been hoping fore something similar at the start of the test.

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Post by msp83 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:12 am

One more wicket here, India will struggle to get to 300 even!

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Post by eirebilly Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:20 am

Damn son telling me that he and his wife are expecting twins. Missed two very important wickets Very Happy

This is a real glimmer of hope for England, slightly more optimistic than yesterday.
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Post by alfie Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:23 am

Hmm. Tuning in ten minutes or so late and I seem to have missed some action Smile

This is probably pretty much the start England would have hoped for...another one would be nice . Is that greedy ?

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Post by msp83 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:24 am

Soul Requiem wrote:The end is nigh for Pujara and Rahane, neither have looked in form for a long time so might be time to bring in some new blood. Both have been great servants to India.
There is no ready replacement for Pujara in the squad, unless they put Mayank, the reserve opener at 3, or go a different direction altogether by putting in the expansive but technically flawed Shaw in there. As for Rahane, think Suryakumar Yadav is someone who can be given a go. If Rahane doesn't produce the goods next innings, perhaps they can think on those directions for the next game.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:25 am

"1 wicket from the Tail now! Could bowl India out for 300 here if we get it right! Then go get 500… the plan falling into place?!"

Stuart Broad taking optimism to new heights. Mind you, this is a fellow who thinks every LBW shout he has is out!

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Post by msp83 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:26 am

Pant and Jadeja trying to play the survival game against Anderson. Both not looking very secure out there doing that. Would Pant in particular, be better off playing a few shots? Positive and not reckless?

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Post by alfie Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:29 am

Duty281 wrote:A cliched big first hour then - England need at least two wickets, preferably three or more, to have a realistic chance in this test. Keeping India below 375 is key. But if Rahul and Rahane can negotiate the opening hour with no alarms, a 450+ score is on.

I also think it's only the Indian openers who have confounded expectations on Indian batting in English conditions. The middle-order have, so far, looked as expected.

Yes fair to say it's been all Rohit and Rahul so far : the catch being that by the time they are finished India might already have a winning score Smile

Ah well. Pant will play in his usual manner. Think what happens next half hour will go a long way to deciding this match. India already have a very good base : can't let these two get going or they'll be away at a gallop...

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Post by msp83 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:29 am

Have a feeling this collapse is going to be a full blown meltdown. Pant seems confused, playing more like in the WTC final mode, a mix of his first and 2nd innings there. Chances of him surviving this are slim.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:30 am

msp83 wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The end is nigh for Pujara and Rahane, neither have looked in form for a long time so might be time to bring in some new blood. Both have been great servants to India.
There is no ready replacement for Pujara in the squad, unless they put Mayank, the reserve opener at 3, or go a different direction altogether by putting in the expansive but technically flawed Shaw in there. As for Rahane, think Suryakumar Yadav is someone who can be given a go. If Rahane doesn't produce the goods next innings, perhaps they can think on those directions for the next game.

I meant more long term than for this series. Pujara can still eat up deliveries now and then but seems to have lost the ability to really kick on. I think Agarwal would make quite a decent number three, he seems a player capable of filling in almost anywhere.

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Post by eirebilly Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:46 am

Ship being steadied somewhat. Hopefully Wood can add some extra wickets now.
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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:46 am

Wood v Pant. Could be an exhilarating battle.

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Post by msp83 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:48 am

Wood takes over from Robinson. Lets see how Pant would go about things now. He seemed to have settled down a bit after that confused start. Wood's extra pace, and possible short ball tactics, and Pant's response to those would be interesting.

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Post by alfie Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:54 am

msp83 wrote:Have a feeling this collapse is going to be a full blown meltdown. Pant seems confused, playing more like in the WTC final mode, a mix of his first and 2nd innings there. Chances of him surviving this are slim.

Not sure about that. Think once Anderson and Robinson are off batting gets a lot easier. Suspect these two have just about got through the difficult bit. Unless Curran bowls a lot better than yesterday runs might flow now...

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Post by msp83 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 11:58 am

Sam Curran from the other end and gives away a boundary ball that Jadeja didn't miss out on.

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Post by msp83 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:01 pm

Jadeja in recent times, have shown a tendency to take on the short ball and hasn't done that all that successfully. Admitedly, he has done it more often batting with the lower order. But him v Wood will be interesting, Wagner Had got Jadeja out in the WTC final by being typical Wagner after it seemed Jadeja had got on top of the conditions otherwise.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:02 pm

Might be worth Moeen or Root for a couple of overs. They could tempt either batsman into a false shot.

Root needs to aim to wrap this innings up before lunch.

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Post by msp83 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:17 pm

Sam's looking a lot better than he did yesterday. He still has bowled on both sides of the wicket at times, but there is that little something going for him at the moment.

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Post by alfie Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:17 pm

Still smart cricket from India.  Jadeja just playing anchor so far : Pant taking the attack to the bowlers. Already a useful thirty odd tacked on to the scorecard.

Moeen on so this will probably either bring a wicket or a run blitz...

Or maybe they'll just milk him for singles.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:22 pm

More than anything I hope this is the last time we see Mark Wood bowling in England, he's a fine weapon to have abroad but he offers very little at home. Mahmood may perform just as poorly but worth giving him a go, seems to rely less on pace so should do ok in test cricket.

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Post by msp83 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:25 pm

Root again, bowling Moeen and Curran together. Not the best possible combination really, though Moeen kept a lid on things yesterday when they were operating together. Lets see how Pant is going to play Moeen here.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:28 pm

Ashwin would have liked bowling on this wicket.

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Post by eirebilly Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:28 pm

I would have to say that England's chance in this test has now fully gone. There was a glimmer of hope with the early wickets but nothing since. India with the score on the board are just going to further consolidate that score and England will struggle. Still a chance of a draw but an England win is completely off now.
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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:31 pm

eirebilly wrote:I would have to say that England's chance in this test has now fully gone. There was a glimmer of hope with the early wickets but nothing since. India with the score on the board are just going to further consolidate that score and England will struggle. Still a chance of a draw but an England win is completely off now.

I wouldn't say that at all. Par on this is about 400-450. England may struggle to reach par but they should get to 350-400, which could (if these last five wickets fall inside 70 runs) turn the game into an one-innings shootout, giving England every chance of victory.

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Post by msp83 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:32 pm

Ooh! Moeen just got one to turn miles! What would Virat be thinking in there?

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Post by eirebilly Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:33 pm

That is not really likely to happen though is it Duty.

For England to have any chance, they would have to bat quickly and score big to leave time. I really do not see that happening with this England team.

Finally Wood gets a wicket thumbsup
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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:34 pm

Duty281 wrote:Wood v Pant. Could be an exhilarating battle.

Wood wins, eventually. Still the aim of keeping India below 375 is alive.

Will Jadeja engage T20 mode now?

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Post by msp83 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:34 pm

Duty281 wrote:Ashwin would have liked bowling on this wicket.
He would indeed have, Duty! Could have been a handful here, particularly as England are set to bat last...

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Post by msp83 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:35 pm

350 all out still on card as Pant kind of gives it away, edging Wood behind...

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:36 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:More than anything I hope this is the last time we see Mark Wood bowling in England, he's a fine weapon to have abroad but he offers very little at home. Mahmood may perform just as poorly but worth giving him a go, seems to rely less on pace so should do ok in test cricket.

You can all thank me now.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Aug 2021, 12:36 pm

eirebilly wrote:That is not really likely to happen though is it Duty.

For England to have any chance, they would have to bat quickly and score big to leave time. I really do not see that happening with this England team.

Finally Wood gets a wicket thumbsup

They wouldn't have to bat quickly. Even if England batted slowly, scored 360 in 180 overs say, that would only take the game up to early afternoon in day four leaving plenty of time for a result.

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