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South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July

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South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July  - Page 7 Empty South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July

Post by George Carlin Sat 17 Jul 2021, 8:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July  - Page 7 A_10                  South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July  - Page 7 Lions_10                
SOUTH AFRICA BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
Saturday 24 July
KO: 18:00 SAST / 17:00 UK / 20:00 Dubai  Very Happy
Cape Town Stadium (Newlands), Cape Town
Sky Sports Main Event

Referee: Nic Berry (Australia)
Assistant Referees: Ben O’Keeffe, Mathieu Raynal
TMO: Marius Bloody Jonker of all people

TEAMS:

SOUTH AFRICA:
15 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 62 caps, 60 pts (12t)
14 – Cheslin Kolbe (Toulouse) – 14 caps, 40 pts (8t)
13 – Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks) – 15 caps, 15 pts (3t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Munster) – 47 caps, 30 pts (6t)
11 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 14 caps, 70 pts (14t)
10 – Handré Pollard (vice-captain – Montpellier) – 49 caps, 465pts (6t, 78c, 89p, 4d)
09 – Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks) – 30 caps, 20 pts (4t)

08 – Kwagga Smith (Yamaha Júbilo) – 7 caps, 5 pts (1t)
07 – Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Stormers) – 56 caps, 25 pts (5t)
06 – Siya Kolisi (captain – Cell C Sharks) – 51 caps, 30 pts (6t)
05 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 40 caps, 5pts (1t)
04 – Eben Etzebeth (Toulon) – 86 caps, 15 pts (3t)
03 – Trevor Nyakane (Vodacom Bulls) – 43 caps, 5 pts (1t)
02 – Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Stormers) – 37 caps, 40 pts (8t)
01 – Ox Nché (Cell C Sharks) – 2 caps, 0 pts

16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 34 caps, 30 pts (6t)
17 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 48 caps, 5pts (1t)
18 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 39 caps, 5pts (1t)
19 – Lood de Jager (Sale Sharks) – 45 caps, 25 pts (5t)
20 – Rynhardt Elstadt (Toulouse) – 2 caps, 0 pts
21 – Herschel Jantjies (DHL Stormers) – 11 caps, 25 pts (5t)
22 – Elton Jantjies (Pau) – 38 caps, 283 pts (2t, 63c, 49p)
23 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 7 caps, 5pts (1t)

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS:
15. Stuart Hogg (Exeter, Scotland) #783
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816
13. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
09. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843

01. Rory Sutherland (Worcester, Scotland) #840
02. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter, England) #851
03. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
04. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
05. Alun Wyn Jones (C) (Ospreys, Wales) #761
06. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
07. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
08. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

16. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
18. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
19. Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
20. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) #780
23. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833

PREVIEW:


Last edited by George Carlin on Sat 24 Jul 2021, 4:25 pm; edited 6 times in total
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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:44 am

Cyril wrote:It would be better if you could see who dislikes posts (same as you can with likes) but does it really matter?

Yep, then we could see how many ID's that certain someone has. They're still here pretending to be Wenglish.

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Post by flyhalffactory Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:44 am

The Oracle wrote:Good team, some probably marginal calls, but there or thereabouts overall for me. I wish them all the best.

It’s pretty much the team I would have picked apart from Adams over Watson and I would have gone Hamish Watson over Curry.

Adams to miss out entirely is incredibly harsh going on your form. Has Watson really shown more? Perhaps he’ll get his chance in another test.

Anyway, onwards and hopefully a team to really test the Boks.

Edit: sorry just noticed Lawes at 6. Would have gone for Beirne. Not sure laws brings enough at 6 or at lock. He therefore becomes more of a utility player for me and, on form, I would have gone for Beirne as Lawes I don’t think had shown enough so far on tour.

That's exactly what I would have changed.
I think Lawes has the skill set to cover Lock/6 and Curry has the talent to cover across the BR then I would have had them on the bench. I'm assuming Farrell is there to cover 10/12 and for his dead ball kicking, he won't let us down if there is a pen or conversion to be slotted over on the 80 min to win the match

Some unlucky players in George, Hendo, Harris and Adams but still a decent 23
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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:45 am

Did anyone actually expect LCD to start? I thought it would be Owens with George on the bench. All three are good enough though.

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Post by TightHEAD Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:48 am

LCD has been the best hooker (aggressive too) by far, followed by George.
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Post by RDW Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:48 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Did anyone actually expect LCD to start? I thought it would be Owens with George on the bench. All three are good enough though.

His performance in the last game must have pushed him ahead. All 3 have been excellent this tour - George will be gutted.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:50 am

LCD has been better than George for England for a little while now. Given that Owens and LCD got the mins against SA A and impressed it was always going to be difficult for George.

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Post by TJ Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:50 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Did anyone actually expect LCD to start? I thought it would be Owens with George on the bench. All three are good enough though.

Yes - I thought he was outstanding in the warmups. Like price arrived on tour looking like bench / midweek fodder but played his way into the test side

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:51 am

I was hoping to see Adam Beard he certainly has shown up better than Tadhg Beirne, but I suppose he gets the nod for his versatility.

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Post by Oakdene Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:52 am

For me I am more surprised, given how he has gone, that George isn't on the bench ahead of Ken. Ken has been his solid reliable self but the 2 English lads have had moments which have made them stand out slightly more than the Sherriff.

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Post by Oakdene Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:53 am

LordDowlais wrote:I was hoping to see Adam Beard he certainly has shown up better than Tadhg Beirne, but I suppose he gets the nod for his versatility.  

When I saw Henderson picked ahead of Beard in the leaked team last night I was a bit bemused by that.

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Post by BamBam Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:54 am

George has always been very good off the bench, he probably looked more impressive from there when Hartley was captain than he has done as a starter. He’d have been my bench option

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:56 am

Oakdene wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I was hoping to see Adam Beard he certainly has shown up better than Tadhg Beirne, but I suppose he gets the nod for his versatility.  

When I saw Henderson picked ahead of Beard in the leaked team last night I was a bit bemused by that.

Feelings now that 2 guys yet to play in the second row on this tour now seem lock cover?

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Post by RDW Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:57 am

Thoughts on Beirne covering 2nd row?

I probably would have liked a bit more bulk off the bench, especially as SA have their better scrummagers coming on (as Old Man says)

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Post by flyhalffactory Wed 21 Jul 2021, 10:59 am

Oakdene wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I was hoping to see Adam Beard he certainly has shown up better than Tadhg Beirne, but I suppose he gets the nod for his versatility.  

When I saw Henderson picked ahead of Beard in the leaked team last night I was a bit bemused by that.

Beard has been outstanding, in fact he's been our best lock by far. I would have picked him to start
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Post by TightHEAD Wed 21 Jul 2021, 11:02 am

Beard should be playing instead of AWJ.

But I accept we are lacking Real Captain material on the field as Murray showed vs SA'A.
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Post by TJ Wed 21 Jul 2021, 11:06 am

Guys - we will all have bits we can nitpick around the edge and with this group there was always going to be someone being unlucky or lucky depending on your point of view.

Me?  I think A Watson is lucky to get the nod over Adams and Curry over the Mish - but lets face it they are hardly weak guys who got in the team and none will let us down

MY real question mark is Farrell.  Id have had smith on the bench to break the game up in the last 20.  But Farrell is there i assume for that 82nd minute kick to win the game and / or to play out if we are leading


Last edited by TJ on Wed 21 Jul 2021, 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Poorfour Wed 21 Jul 2021, 11:11 am

My worry is that in the backs that's a bench to close the game out rather than overturn a deficit - and after Wednesday's game I am not sure that's the right strategy. I know we haven't seen the best of the Lions in attack yet, but I have not seen much to suggest that they can nullify the Bok defence until fitness wins out... and then they need a bit more pace and variety than Murray and Farrell will offer.
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Post by TightHEAD Wed 21 Jul 2021, 11:12 am

Replace Murray and Farrell with Care and Smith. South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July  - Page 7 1f600
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Post by TJ Wed 21 Jul 2021, 11:16 am

TightHEAD wrote:Beard should be playing instead of AWJ.

But I accept we are lacking Real Captain material on the field as Murray showed vs SA'A.

Hogg? too far from the action? He is a decent captain nowadays

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 21 Jul 2021, 11:17 am

I said from the beginning that Cowan-Dickie had been the standout hooker for a while so little surprise to see him selected; Owens and George are both fine players but they don't do anything better than LCD nowadays.

I do worry for Itoje and Curry in that line up.

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Post by Old Man Wed 21 Jul 2021, 11:17 am

I suspect the match will be close and the Lions will take it in the last quarter. The Bok fitness is the big question. Some haven’t even played in the last two months

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Post by jimbopip Wed 21 Jul 2021, 11:18 am

If you haven't seen it yet;

15. Stuart Hogg (Exeter, Scotland) #783
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816
13. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843

1. Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales) #842
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter, England) #851
3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
5. Alun Wyn Jones (C) (Ospreys, Wales) #761
6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
8. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

Replacements:

16. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
17. Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840
18. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
19. Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
20. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) #780
23. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833

Wow, just wow. Shocked But in a good way. I think. Erm

Daly at 13 is a big call. Ball in hand he has been the best 13 so far...but a 63% tackle success rate against poorish quality opposition doesn't inspire confidence.
Similarly, Duhan is much better going forward than defending.
It seems the backs have been picked to really take it to the Boks and win the game early, with Murray and No Arms looking to steady the ship later on.

Jones-LCD-Furlong is a decent front row; good scrummagers and aggressive. Sutherland-Sheriff-Sinckler should be able to live with the better Boks front row when the changes are made after the hour. Kudos to Sinckler: being left out originally and now starting a Test. ( Mind, I think Fagerson is a much better scrummager but he is looking like one of those tourists who just don't "blossom". As opposed to someone like Daly, or Chris Harris, who really seem to thrive in the tour atmosphere.)

I guess Lawes is in so that if AWJ's shoulder pops out he can go into second row and Beirne plays 6. Or Curry goes to 6 and Hamish comes on at 7.Either way bringing on Sinckler, Beirne and Hamish will really add pace to the pack. If the positive choice of choosing offensive rather than defensive backs means we are ahead after 60 minutes and the Boks are chasing the game a more mobile pack could have a field day.

However,  if we're behind I can't see Murray and Farrell upping the pace picard and if the Boks decide to strangle the life out the game then Sinckler's pace around the park won't look a better choice than Fagerson's scrummaging ability.

Should be a fascinating match.

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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 21 Jul 2021, 11:20 am

Selections pretty harsh on Hendo, Beirne, Adams and Watson who have been the best players on tour in my view.

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Post by TightHEAD Wed 21 Jul 2021, 11:45 am

TJ wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Beard should be playing instead of AWJ.

But I accept we are lacking Real Captain material on the field as Murray showed vs SA'A.

Hogg?  too far from the action?  He is a decent captain nowadays

For me he tries to do too much when Captain, let him concentrate on his own game. Also I don't think he talks to Refs as well as AWJ!!!!
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Post by TightHEAD Wed 21 Jul 2021, 11:59 am

I'm sure the lads who are missing out will get the nod in the 3rd test when the Lions are 2-0 up. Very Happy
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Post by Old Man Wed 21 Jul 2021, 11:59 am

TightHEAD wrote:I'm sure the lads who are missing out will get the nod in the 3rd test when the Lions are 2-0 up. Very Happy

Dreams are important, it instills hope Wink

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Wed 21 Jul 2021, 12:00 pm

I have always been confident that Lawes would start, otherwise why wrap him in cotton wool after the Japan game and the first warm up. He played pretty much all of both games. He has a shoulder issue, but he had that coming into the tour and it just stiffened up. Gatland said they were freshening him up and keeping him available for selection next week (first test).

The pack is about as strong as we can get it with the players we have, so many players so close together in terms of form.I assume Lawes was ahead of Beirne for his experience and lineout capability (not that Beirne is bad), he is I think also a bit quicker at getting up into the oppositions face and some of us can remember the shuddering tackles he used to put in.

Also with Conan at 8, the additional bulk of Lawes and Curry over Bierne and Watson may have played in their favor.

Disappointed to see both Farrell and Murray on the bench, the form they are in they could be a liability in the closing stages.

Like Williams on the bench, apart from VDM, all the backs are versatile to interchange if necessary.

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Post by dummy_half Wed 21 Jul 2021, 12:02 pm

Still remain to be convinced by Lawes as a blind side at international level, but obviously both Jones and Gatland see something there. Otherwise the pack and the replacement forwards look strong. You can argue about Curry v Watson in terms of starting v replacement, but that's an argument about two clearly very good options.

Back line looks surprisingly adventurous - Hogg definitely the strongest open field runner from 15, DvdM there to make holes in the defence, Daly probably the strongest attacking 13 (and defensively weakest) and Aldi Price's strength also being adding pace to the game. Not so enamoured with Murray and Farrell as replacements, but in truth there probably aren't many good options to cover 9-10-12 (but we knew that going in to the tour).

Overall happy with the selections.

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Post by Old Man Wed 21 Jul 2021, 12:16 pm

I think Gatland wants to use Lawes in the same mould as PSDT

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Post by TJ Wed 21 Jul 2021, 12:17 pm

I think in the back row Gatland has gone for bulk and another lineout jumper. Myself i would have gone for pace.

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Post by George Carlin Wed 21 Jul 2021, 12:20 pm

So Gatland's plan is to attack. Fantastic.

Beirne and Watson on the bench give a lot of comfort. Lawes will largely be there to soak up the pressure and make 15 hard tackles. He's also a dedicated lock replacement so I hope to hell he doesn't get injured.

Very, very tough on Josh Adams indeed. They must have tossed a coin over him and Duhan.

Is this now a safe space for me to say that I hoped Daly would be 13 rather than any other number? His versatility and field cannon boot took him there instead of Harris. He is part of our best attacking line up, however.
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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 21 Jul 2021, 12:21 pm

Old Man wrote:I think Gatland wants to use Lawes in the same mould as PSDT

Lawes is a good blindside and on his return from injury was back to his absolute best for Saints, he was actually very good at the breakdown. He's possibly the best line out operator the Lions have available and means three genuine options; you'd expect Cowan-Dickie to hit his man every time so with Duhan and Daly you've got two very different options for a set play.

That said I would have selected Watson alongside Curry.


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Post by George Carlin Wed 21 Jul 2021, 12:22 pm

I wonder whether Worcester have had 2 British Lions before. Very Happy
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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 21 Jul 2021, 1:18 pm

Gatland expects changes for test 2. Henshaw picked for his 6 nations form, Daly in there for his left footed kicking option. Farrell not mentioned as a centre option so was obviously just a head to head with Russell. Coaches agreed on 3 or 4 of the pack.

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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 21 Jul 2021, 1:43 pm

Old Man wrote:I think Gatland wants to use Lawes in the same mould as PSDT

I dont get what they see in Lawes myself. He is often described as really physical but I dont see it except when putting in late hits on guys half his size maybe, otherwise the Lions have more physical options they could use at 6.

Sure he is a good player and seens to have a good attitude but not sure what sets him apart from everyone else.

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Post by Dollar Bill Wed 21 Jul 2021, 1:44 pm

George Carlin wrote:I wonder whether Worcester have had 2 British Lions before. Very Happy

Two Lions who have never played for them

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 21 Jul 2021, 1:48 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think Gatland wants to use Lawes in the same mould as PSDT

I dont get what they see in Lawes myself. He is often described as really physical but I dont see it except when putting in late hits on guys half his size maybe, otherwise the Lions have more physical options they could use at 6.

Sure he is a good player and seens to have a good attitude but not sure what sets him apart from everyone else.

What?

The one thing that Lawes undeniably has is physicality, his reputation for hitting half backs late is about 5 years out of date. I'd be interested to know who the more physical options are? Quicker options without doubt but more physical I can't see anyone.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Wed 21 Jul 2021, 1:51 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think Gatland wants to use Lawes in the same mould as PSDT

I dont get what they see in Lawes myself. He is often described as really physical but I dont see it except when putting in late hits on guys half his size maybe, otherwise the Lions have more physical options they could use at 6.

Sure he is a good player and seens to have a good attitude but not sure what sets him apart from everyone else.

What?

The one thing that Lawes undeniably has is physicality, his reputation for hitting half backs late is about 5 years out of date. I'd be interested to know who the more physical options are? Quicker options without doubt but more physical I can't see anyone.

Dominant tackles....high work rate....excellent defensive/offensive line-out options....strong carrier in the tight

Apart from that, he doesn't offer much.

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Post by Old Man Wed 21 Jul 2021, 1:54 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think Gatland wants to use Lawes in the same mould as PSDT

I dont get what they see in Lawes myself. He is often described as really physical but I dont see it except when putting in late hits on guys half his size maybe, otherwise the Lions have more physical options they could use at 6.

Sure he is a good player and seens to have a good attitude but not sure what sets him apart from everyone else.

What?

The one thing that Lawes undeniably has is physicality, his reputation for hitting half backs late is about 5 years out of date. I'd be interested to know who the more physical options are? Quicker options without doubt but more physical I can't see anyone.

He hasn’t impressed me with his physicality though, thought he has a good engine and high work rate, excellent line out option at 6, but not in the physicality mode of PSDT for example

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 21 Jul 2021, 1:57 pm

Old Man wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think Gatland wants to use Lawes in the same mould as PSDT

I dont get what they see in Lawes myself. He is often described as really physical but I dont see it except when putting in late hits on guys half his size maybe, otherwise the Lions have more physical options they could use at 6.

Sure he is a good player and seens to have a good attitude but not sure what sets him apart from everyone else.

What?

The one thing that Lawes undeniably has is physicality, his reputation for hitting half backs late is about 5 years out of date. I'd be interested to know who the more physical options are? Quicker options without doubt but more physical I can't see anyone.

He hasn’t impressed me with his physicality though, thought he has a good engine and high work rate, excellent line out option at 6, but not in the physicality mode of PSDT for example

Yup. He'll hit people hard in tackles but I don't agree he's a good carrier in the tight, if you want that play Watson who is miles better. Strengthens our lineout though.

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Post by BamBam Wed 21 Jul 2021, 2:04 pm

Lawes' carrying is weaker in the tight than I'd want from a lock, but think its fine for a 6, and he's effective in the wider channels too. Great line out option, not sure how good Conan is in that area but Itoje will be thankful for the support.

Biggest negative of Lawes and Conan in the back row is that I feel we lose breakdown nous and speed to the ruck. Curry has a lot on his plate, Faletau hasn't been at his best but he's a very effective ruck operator, whereas I see Conan as more of a ball carrier than all around 8.

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Post by lostinwales Wed 21 Jul 2021, 2:16 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think Gatland wants to use Lawes in the same mould as PSDT

I dont get what they see in Lawes myself. He is often described as really physical but I dont see it except when putting in late hits on guys half his size maybe, otherwise the Lions have more physical options they could use at 6.

Sure he is a good player and seens to have a good attitude but not sure what sets him apart from everyone else.

What?

The one thing that Lawes undeniably has is physicality, his reputation for hitting half backs late is about 5 years out of date. I'd be interested to know who the more physical options are? Quicker options without doubt but more physical I can't see anyone.

Dominant tackles....high work rate....excellent defensive/offensive line-out options....strong carrier in the tight

Apart from that, he doesn't offer much.

Does he still have that thing about getting stripped of the ball once per game?

He's a cracking player who has made himself a very important part of England over the last couple of years even with some very strong competition.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Wed 21 Jul 2021, 2:17 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think Gatland wants to use Lawes in the same mould as PSDT

I dont get what they see in Lawes myself. He is often described as really physical but I dont see it except when putting in late hits on guys half his size maybe, otherwise the Lions have more physical options they could use at 6.

Sure he is a good player and seens to have a good attitude but not sure what sets him apart from everyone else.

What?

The one thing that Lawes undeniably has is physicality, his reputation for hitting half backs late is about 5 years out of date. I'd be interested to know who the more physical options are? Quicker options without doubt but more physical I can't see anyone.

He hasn’t impressed me with his physicality though, thought he has a good engine and high work rate, excellent line out option at 6, but not in the physicality mode of PSDT for example

Yup. He'll hit people hard in tackles but I don't agree he's a good carrier in the tight, if you want that play Watson who is miles better. Strengthens our lineout though.

Take a look at Lawes stats in recent times, in the absence of a heavyweight carrier in the BV mold, the carrying has been shared and Lawes takes the Lions Share (excuse the pun). He doesn't make the ground BV used to make, but who does. He is comfortably as good as any other lock we have at doing the hard stuff in close and dirty.

His breakdown work has come on leaps and bounds as well, unusual for such a tall man but I have frequently seen him get his hands on the ball and then when the clearout comes he uses that impetus to rip the ball away.

I always used to take umbrage at the uncalled for rep he got for smashing half backs, most of the time there are no forwards handling the ball out wider at first receiver to tackle. His job was to stop the ball getting out wide which he did with aplomb. No other forwards were quick enough to get to the half backs, that is why it was always him.
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Post by lostinwales Wed 21 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think Gatland wants to use Lawes in the same mould as PSDT

I dont get what they see in Lawes myself. He is often described as really physical but I dont see it except when putting in late hits on guys half his size maybe, otherwise the Lions have more physical options they could use at 6.

Sure he is a good player and seens to have a good attitude but not sure what sets him apart from everyone else.

What?

The one thing that Lawes undeniably has is physicality, his reputation for hitting half backs late is about 5 years out of date. I'd be interested to know who the more physical options are? Quicker options without doubt but more physical I can't see anyone.

He hasn’t impressed me with his physicality though, thought he has a good engine and high work rate, excellent line out option at 6, but not in the physicality mode of PSDT for example

Yup. He'll hit people hard in tackles but I don't agree he's a good carrier in the tight, if you want that play Watson who is miles better. Strengthens our lineout though.

Take a look at Lawes stats in recent times, in the absence of a heavyweight carrier in the BV mold, the carrying has been shared and Lawes takes the Lions Share (excuse the pun). He doesn't make the ground BV used to make, but who does. He is comfortably as good as any other lock we have at doing the hard stuff in close and dirty.

His breakdown work has come on leaps and bounds as well, unusual for such a tall man but I have frequently seen him get his hands on the ball and then when the clearout comes he uses that impetus to rip the ball away.

I always used to take umbrage at the uncalled for rep he got for smashing half backs, most of the time there are no forwards handling the ball out wider at first receiver to tackle. His job was to stop the ball getting out wide which he did with aplomb. No other forwards were quick enough to get to the half backs, that is why it was always him.

Seeing all 6'7'' of him flying horizontally to make a tackle was always very impressive though.

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Post by George Carlin Wed 21 Jul 2021, 2:25 pm

Dollar Bill wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I wonder whether Worcester have had 2 British Lions before. Very Happy

Two Lions who have never played for them
I don't think that the Woos PR desk will care much about that.
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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 21 Jul 2021, 2:27 pm

Henderson and Beirne in my view would be more physical at 6 than Lawes, both very strong lineout options. You could Im sure put Curry at 6 too and Watson at 7. Im sure Lawes was picked by Gatland for a reason, just not sure what it is but of course he is a very good player and my sense is he is very reliable so I hope he does well.


Last edited by Collapse2005 on Wed 21 Jul 2021, 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by TJ Wed 21 Jul 2021, 2:36 pm

My issue with lawes is / was he gives away too many penalties but my impression is he has cleaned up his act a little - no more late / high hits

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 21 Jul 2021, 2:41 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:I think Gatland wants to use Lawes in the same mould as PSDT

I dont get what they see in Lawes myself. He is often described as really physical but I dont see it except when putting in late hits on guys half his size maybe, otherwise the Lions have more physical options they could use at 6.

Sure he is a good player and seens to have a good attitude but not sure what sets him apart from everyone else.

What?

The one thing that Lawes undeniably has is physicality, his reputation for hitting half backs late is about 5 years out of date. I'd be interested to know who the more physical options are? Quicker options without doubt but more physical I can't see anyone.

He hasn’t impressed me with his physicality though, thought he has a good engine and high work rate, excellent line out option at 6, but not in the physicality mode of PSDT for example

Yup. He'll hit people hard in tackles but I don't agree he's a good carrier in the tight, if you want that play Watson who is miles better. Strengthens our lineout though.

Take a look at Lawes stats in recent times, in the absence of a heavyweight carrier in the BV mold, the carrying has been shared and Lawes takes the Lions Share (excuse the pun). He doesn't make the ground BV used to make, but who does. He is comfortably as good as any other lock we have at doing the hard stuff in close and dirty.

His breakdown work has come on leaps and bounds as well, unusual for such a tall man but I have frequently seen him get his hands on the ball and then when the clearout comes he uses that impetus to rip the ball away.

I always used to take umbrage at the uncalled for rep he got for smashing half backs, most of the time there are no forwards handling the ball out wider at first receiver to tackle. His job was to stop the ball getting out wide which he did with aplomb. No other forwards were quick enough to get to the half backs, that is why it was always him.

He has his plusses and is certainly a good player. Prefer others to him to start particularly at blindside. Never understood the rep on the tackles he got as none stood out as late etc and personally I like to see anyforward getting to the half backs.

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Post by alive555 Wed 21 Jul 2021, 2:56 pm

George Carlin wrote:I wonder whether Worcester have had 2 British Lions before. Very Happy

you copied that from twitter!

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Post by bsando Wed 21 Jul 2021, 3:14 pm

I’m pretty happy with that side, a good balance of power and attacking threats. Both Daly and Hogg provide a long boot and I’m impressed they selected Conan, he has been impressive with his chances. Exciting match incoming!

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