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England AI's - So Who Do You Want To See Dropped This Autumn?

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No 7&1/2
Mr Bounce
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Who do you want to see dropped?

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Post by Mr Bounce Fri 20 Aug 2021, 6:46 pm

Simple question. Not who should be in - but who you want to see OUT of the next EPS. Of course this means players who have been in the last 6 Nations Squad - the present squad on the RFU page still shows the summer squad.

There won't be huge wholesale changes, but there may be a couple of "major casualties". Of course, this is who I want to see gone, but we know that it won't happen.


  • Elliot Daly - hasn't impressed for some time now, and his defence is awful. I know he's an Eddie favourite but he's been awful since moving to 15.

    Henry Slade - aside from a couple of great bits in his England career, he simply hasn't been much cop since 2019.

    George Ford - I know he's had an injury, but he hasn't fired for a while now and a rest from international duty may well do him good. Smith can pick up the reins for a bit, and hopefully this will allow George to play himself back in.

    Mark Wilson - He's had his time in an England shirt. Never gives any less than 100%, but there are others who are younger, faster and fitter.

    Billy Vunipola - Billy Cheeseburger hasn't been the peak Billy we all know for a while. Yes he makes a few metres here and there. but most defences have worked him out by now and can easily counteract what he does. Not necessarily out of the EPS, but I would like to see him rested for a few games and play himself back into contention.


I'm not going to mention Ben Youngs either because Eddie won't throw away 100+ caps of experience just like that, but a few games on the bench wouldn't hurt him. Let's see what the others can do.

Edit: Added a Poll

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 20 Aug 2021, 10:08 pm

Erm... I think its obvious which ones I voted for at present.

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Post by Mr Bounce Tue 31 Aug 2021, 11:14 am

Not a real surprise to see Wilson at the top of the list, but I did think that Daly would have got more votes than Billy.

Still, only Eddie knows who's coming into the squad.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 31 Aug 2021, 11:33 am

Youve missed one...

All of the above.

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Post by Cumbrian Tue 31 Aug 2021, 12:10 pm

I think Wilson's race is run for England, it's a shame that he was ignored for so long, I feel he could have contributed a lot more.

I don't get why some England fans seem so keen to bin George Ford, he is one of out most talented players. I think the poll option is sensible, but I think I would start Smith off on the bench to begin with.

Billy is a head scratcher for me, England can't seem to live with or without him at the moment. At his best he is a vital cog in the back-row, but the team has carried him a lot recently.

I think our propping stocks are a little weak at the moment. Marler is the best scrummager,but will he be available? I get sick of seeing Mako penalised, I feel that he should be experienced enough now to be able to present a different picture to the referee. Harry Williams doesn't do much wrong, but I don't see him taking us forward. I'm not sure we could drop any of them though.
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Post by Poorfour Tue 31 Aug 2021, 12:37 pm

Who knows what's going on in Marler's head? I doubt even he does himself sometimes.

Clearly the prospect of being away from his family for so long led him to rule himself out of England (and possibly the Lions) last season, but that may not apply this season.

I would not be surprised to find that the lure of the AIs and 6Ns isn't strong enough to tempt him back into the fold... though a non-locked down RWC in France might, especially if Eddie wants him.

We'll have to see if Genge's maturation continues - he looked better over the summer than in the 6N. But it's not clear who is next in line behind him. Fin Baxter looked very good in the U20 games and may ha e swapped to LH permanently now, but it would be a season or two too early for him under normal circumstances.
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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 31 Aug 2021, 1:03 pm

Poorfour wrote:Who knows what's going on in Marler's head? I doubt even he does himself sometimes.

Clearly the prospect of being away from his family for so long led him to rule himself out of England (and possibly the Lions) last season, but that may not apply this season.

I would not be surprised to find that the lure of the AIs and 6Ns isn't strong enough to tempt him back into the fold... though a non-locked down RWC in France might, especially if Eddie wants him.

We'll have to see if Genge's maturation continues - he looked better over the summer than in the 6N. But it's not clear who is next in line behind him. Fin Baxter looked very good in the U20  games and may ha e swapped to LH permanently now, but it would be a season or two too early for him under normal circumstances.

Not difficult with the summers opposition....

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Post by king_carlos Tue 31 Aug 2021, 4:32 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:Elliot Daly - hasn't impressed for some time now, and his defence is awful. I know he's an Eddie favourite but he's been awful since moving to 15.

Henry Slade - aside from a couple of great bits in his England career, he simply hasn't been much cop since 2019.

George Ford - I know he's had an injury, but he hasn't fired for a while now and a rest from international duty may well do him good. Smith can pick up the reins for a bit, and hopefully this will allow George to play himself back in.

Mark Wilson - He's had his time in an England shirt. Never gives any less than 100%, but there are others who are younger, faster and fitter.

Billy Vunipola - Billy Cheeseburger hasn't been the peak Billy we all know for a while. Yes he makes a few metres here and there. but most defences have worked him out by now and can easily counteract what he does. Not necessarily out of the EPS, but I would like to see him rested for a few games and play himself back into contention.

Daly had some outstanding games at fullback in the lead up to the 2015 RWC. The way England's attack improved with Daly at 15 instead of Brown was impressive. His performances for England since the RWC have been poor and I hope he moves back to 13 where I think his skills are best utilised. Seeing a player who was once so good at creating and finishing 1 on 1s butcher simple finishing passes was painful in the last year. I still think England were significantly improved as a side in 2014/15 by switching Daly for Brown though. Whilst Brown was fantastic under the high ball he had the passing skills of Edward Scissorhands after a litre of Buckfast.

I'd agree on Wilson and Slade being dropped as I feel there are better options now. At 13 I really think it's time to look at Marchant and Lawrence as both offer a running threat. I still think JJ is a better player than Slade as well to be honest.

I'd keep Ford in the 23 but want to see Smith start a run of games. Ford has already proved himself a very good substitute due to his game management closing out the final quarter. Having Ford on the bench is a pretty ideal situation to be in when giving a young fly-half such as Smith his first international starts against tough opposition.

I'd do similar with scrum-half. I think Randall has earned a run of starts with his Bristol form but I wouldn't throw away Youngs experience. Particularly when I don't think Robson is up to international level, then the U20 9s in JvP and Quirke are very young. I do really like Alex Mitchell though, I'd have him in the training squads with Youngs and Randall.

In the back three I want 11.May 14.Watson 15.Nowell as first choice with 11.Radwan 14.Cokanasiga 15.Steward as reserves. If May or Watson pick up injuries I could see Radwan in particular putting real pressure on them for a starting shirt.

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Post by Poorfour Wed 01 Sep 2021, 12:18 am

Daly had some excellent attacking games at fullback, but his defence and high ball work were never better than mildly suspect. England worked around it, relying a lot on May’s speed and strength under the high ball to cover for Daly’s weaknesses.

Ironically, under the new rules with the 50:22, Daly might be more useful, because dropping two players back to cover the kick would allow for the wings to do that role and let the fullback play up.

Now, if only he could tackle…
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