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This Is The Official v2 Golf Board's Ryder Cup Thread: Please Post Here!

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Post by pedro Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:54 pm

First topic message reminder :

RCB was only mentioned as a potential pick in lack of alternatives.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:44 pm

beninho wrote:It really makes no difference what order they go out on the final day, when you are 6 down.

The players haven't performed apart from Rahm and Sergio with a mention of Shane yesterday. Hovlabd has tried his best, but he and Fleetwood putting has looked scarily bad  

Easy to  lame the captain, but this is on the players.

I don’t think Harrington has helped…but yes ultimately Europe don’t have the horses, and the ones they do have who they needed to step up (Rory, Casey, Hovland, Fleetwood) have been poor
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Post by super_realist Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:53 pm

No one is going to turn up on the tee and fear playing Matt Fitzpatrick.

Europe are simply too long in the tooth for this event at this location. The stalwarts bar Garcia have been very poor. Lowry so so, but will probably have Diabetes Type 2 by Rome given his additional fat.

Truthfully, the event needed an American win, and theyve clearly been miles better whilst I have reinforced my severe dislike for that absolute c**t De Chambeau, he's on another level of prickdom.

Well done USA, you deserved it.

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Post by McLaren Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:08 pm

Was very upsetting watching Rory crying at the end of his match.
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Post by beninho Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:14 pm

People say, stick Rahm, lowry, Holland up front. They all get stuffed. Maybe it isn't as easy as it looks.

Rory didn't look good. But he's taken pelters, and I'm sure he is fully aware he isn't playing that well. Thing is Harrington seems like a really sound guy, I can see why the players will be upset.


Poukter shows that if you do pick him, play him in singles only.

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Post by Shotrock Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:56 pm

Guessing it may be a different result in Rome in 2 years.

Ryder cup experience means very little when you need to play a course like this. This year the US had a lot of rookies ... look for team Euro to have the same in 2 years.

Sergio without his younger brother hardly a match for BDC.


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Post by GPB Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:08 pm

I think the Brooksy vs Bryson rivalry is really going to hurt the US Ryder Cup team this year.

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Post by McLaren Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:40 pm

You have to ask if #brexit played a role in such a heavy defeat for the Europeans.
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Post by pedro Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:44 pm

Some takeaways, most not that surprising:

Harrington is too nice a guy, a bit goofy, and not a leader. Players didn’t seem motivated

With a few exceptions, Europes stalwarts are either out of form or over the top

USA played better.

But one of the biggest reasons for this win (and probably many to come) is that the US finally managed to shake off Tiger and Phil.

I can’t see how we can win in Rome, unless a new Rahm or Hovland suddently turns up

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Post by pedro Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:46 pm

McLaren wrote:You have to ask if #brexit played a role in such a heavy defeat for the Europeans.
For sure, the British didn’t bring anything to the table. Empty shelves, no fuel.

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Post by McLaren Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:00 am

Fitzpatrick is a soy boy.
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Post by pedro Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:15 am

McLaren wrote:Fitzpatrick is a soy boy.
As an opponent, you wouldn’t know whether to wipe his a*se or wipe him behind the ears.

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Post by super_realist Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:19 am

McLaren wrote:You have to ask if #brexit played a role in such a heavy defeat for the Europeans.

Ha ha. Very good Mac

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Post by super_realist Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:21 am

beninho wrote:People say, stick Rahm, lowry, Holland up front. They all get stuffed. Maybe it isn't as easy as it looks.

Rory didn't look good. But he's taken pelters, and I'm sure he is fully aware he isn't playing that well. Thing is Harrington seems like a really sound guy, I can see why the players will be upset.


Poukter shows that if you do pick him, play him in singles only.

You absolutely cannot pick a guy only to play singles.

Jusy look at the Amwricans who have been picked over the years and won sweet FA like Botox Woods, Mickelson, De Chambeau, Watson etc

Foursomes is an incredibly hard format. You can win easily or you can get absolutely pumped. Its tiny margins.

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Post by JAS Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:07 am

The Americans were just better, they pretty much always are on paper although this year it it wasn’t a gap it was a yawning gulf. Additionally, Europe have won recent editions because they’ve had a better team spirit, if as seems the case the US have finally discovered how to function as a team rather than 12 egos then Europe could be in for a torrid period until the next generation emerges.

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Post by beninho Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:45 am

I'm unsure on criticising Harrington for being too nice, when the winning captain is Steve Stricker.

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Post by incontinentia Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:02 am

Well that was quite a spanking...

Whatever you think about BDC, he is an absolutely phenomenal player. His driving yesterday was out of this world.
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Post by McLaren Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:28 am

I get the feeling Harrington is going to get a pass for his terrible captaincy and I'm not sure why?

Over the years the Europeans have managed to do well enough in the first two days despite a gulf in class. Has a Ryder cup ever been over so quickly?
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Post by incontinentia Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:42 am

McLaren wrote:I get the feeling Harrington is going to get a pass for his terrible captaincy and I'm not sure why?

Over the years the Europeans have managed to do well enough in the first two days despite a gulf in class. Has a Ryder cup ever been over so quickly?
Do we have evidence of incompetence on Padraig's part? I think only the inner circle will truly know how good a job he did, unless there is a whistle-blower people will only be speculating. I was surprised when Padraig got the Captain's job, he always seemed a bit odd/socially awkward and not a people person. Maybe this is not the case, but from the outside ne certainly never seemed to be a leader of men. Similar to Faldo in ways. Conversely, McGinley, while not in the same league as a player, certainly seemed incredibly in tune with how to handle the various elements of the RC Captaincy job.
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Post by beninho Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:53 am

Has a ryder cup ever had such a difference in class between the teams? 14 Anericans in the world rankings between the last player in their team, and the highest not picked Euro, Victor Perez.

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Post by JAS Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:27 pm

I can’t remember Europe EVER having a higher average ranking than the US but the gap is especially big this time round.

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Post by beninho Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:32 pm

If no Covid, and played last year, woukd it have been different?

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Post by incontinentia Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:49 pm

beninho wrote:If no Covid, and played last year, woukd it have been different?  
Yes, we would have beaten them soundly.
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Post by pedro Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:07 pm

beninho wrote:If no Covid, and played last year, woukd it have been different?  
I don’t know if it would have helped to have more captains picks, but some of the automatic qualifiers seemed out of form: Hatton, Casey, Fitz, Tommy.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:32 pm

pedro wrote:
beninho wrote:If no Covid, and played last year, woukd it have been different?  
I don’t know if it would have helped to have more captains picks, but some of the automatic qualifiers seemed out of form: Hatton, Casey, Fitz, Tommy.

I do wonder if the Euros might look at the qualification system, and give the captain more flexibility in the future (similar to the US). Automatic qualifiers like Westwood/Fitzpatrick have been pretty poor since really Feb/March, yet were never really in doubt of missing out (similar with Fleetwood).
Not that we exactly have a bunch of great players who missed out mind, but going forward matching the Americans 6 captains picks might give a little more leeway to bump off players who are terribly out of form, and add a couple of wildcards in.

No doubt the Americans were and are much better than us at the minute - and as noted above, it does seem they rid themselves of the stink of previous generations failures and the new blood/youngsters really brought in - your Cantlay/Xander/Scheffler/Finau/Morikawa generation look threats for years to come (Morikawa in particular is an exceptional player)
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Post by Shotrock Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:57 pm

The exhibition match is massively important to the European Tour (financially). I'm guessing it will be all hands on deck to make sure Europe puts out the absolute strongest team in Rome. Could it even mean 12 Captain's picks?

As the top European players age and have children from their home base in Florida (or elsewhere in the states), the ET might be wise to really loosen the requirements to play on that tour. Anyone's guess.

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Post by McLaren Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:29 pm

Shotrock wrote:As the top European players age and have children from their home base in Florida (or elsewhere in the states), the ET might be wise to really loosen the requirements to play on that tour. Anyone's guess.

It is unquestionable that playing the PGAT every week would make you a better player rather than flitting between two tours or even worse, not even testing yourself on the PGAT.  Maybe lower the eligibility criteria to a couple of Rolex series and let players drop ET membership.

The strength and depth of the PGAT has gone through the roof in the last 10 to 15 years and at some point that had to result in an American RC team that is far better than what the ET can scrape together.

And it is not just the PGATs strength that has resulted in a conveyor belt of US talent, we have a college system that basically turned youth golf into a pro golf training schedule and an exceptionally strong feeder tour. Remember european RC hopeful Fat bob failed miserably at the Korn ferry tour finals.  
The talent gap is huge and probably only getting bigger.


Also Euros need players to maintain elite level for more than two years. Where are Molinari, Dubuisson, Wallace, Kaymer, Luiten, Cabrera-Bello, Pieters, Sullivan, Colsaerts etc? These guys haven't just missed out on the RC this time around they have fallen off the planet in terms of elite golfing relevancy. These are players that should be in their prime and if they were, would have strengthened the ET team.


RC's have become all about home advantage so it still wouldn't be a shock to see the ET team win next time out but I could see a pattern emerging of close matches in Europe and trouncings for the Euro's in the US.
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Post by GPB Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:33 pm

If Paddy had 12 Captain's picks, i don't think the results would have been much different,

Furthermore, I think 11 of the 12 players would have been the same. Rose might have been on the team instead of Fitzy or Hatton.

One takeaway I had from the US Team perspective is that Stricker seem to have an epiphany. A good foursome pairing doesn't necessarily make a good fourball pairing and vice versa

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Post by JAS Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:23 pm

McLaren wrote:
Shotrock wrote:As the top European players age and have children from their home base in Florida (or elsewhere in the states), the ET might be wise to really loosen the requirements to play on that tour. Anyone's guess.

It is unquestionable that playing the PGAT every week would make you a better player rather than flitting between two tours or even worse, not even testing yourself on the PGAT.  Maybe lower the eligibility criteria to a couple of Rolex series and let players drop ET membership.

The strength and depth of the PGAT has gone through the roof in the last 10 to 15 years and at some point that had to result in an American RC team that is far better than what the ET can scrape together.

And it is not just the PGATs strength that has resulted in a conveyor belt of US talent, we have a college system that basically turned youth golf into a pro golf training schedule and an exceptionally strong feeder tour. Remember european RC hopeful Fat bob failed miserably at the Korn ferry tour finals.  
The talent gap is huge and probably only getting bigger.


Also Euros need players to maintain elite level for more than two years. Where are Molinari, Dubuisson, Wallace, Kaymer, Luiten, Cabrera-Bello, Pieters, Sullivan, Colsaerts etc? These guys haven't just missed out on the RC this time around they have fallen off the planet in terms of elite golfing relevancy. These are players that should be in their prime and if they were, would have strengthened the ET team.


RC's have become all about home advantage so it still wouldn't be a shock to see the ET team win next time out but I could see a pattern emerging of close matches in Europe and trouncings for the Euro's in the US.
How is it unquestionable Mac? It’s a given that bigger purses mean better world ranking placings but bigger purses (and by default ranking position) should be no guaranteed indicator of matchplay ability. As far as I know each tour has one matchplay tournament a year.
Why is there a knee jerk need to change eligibility criteria?, a very very good side has converted a predicted home win for the 3rd time this century well woop de do!!
Europe shouldn’t just dismiss it out of hand via complacency but a realistic analysis should confirm that the US had a particularly strong team this time round and whether it was previous hurt, good captaincy or a combination of both, the Americans finally embraced and discovered what team spirit is all about.

Re the college system, yes but to be fair they’ve had that for years, it does produce a conveyor belt of talent. I think these things are cyclical. From memory I think a few of this crop played the Royal Aberdeen Walker cup in 2011, who did we have then and where are they now (Tom Lewis, Andy Sullivan etc) So yes, you have to say they currently nurture and develop talent better. They also churn through “next best thing one RC wonders” Anthony Kim? Hunter Mayan? Jeff Overton? Jimmy Walker?



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Post by pedro Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:02 pm

Jas, see Good Gollys post.

I know they are trying to protect the ET but they risk doing the opposite by insisting on x no. of spots from ET points - resulting in an increasingly weaker and weaker RC team.

Why did Paddy insist on 3 picks when Bjorn had 4? Ok, we wouldn’t have won anyway, but it’s worthwhile considering for the future.

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Post by Shotrock Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:30 am

JAS - The US "finally" embraced team play? Are you suggesting that when they lost in the past they did not, but when they won in the past they did?

As far as an indicator of matchplay for the exhibition event, how can that be determined on any professional tour? Tiger Woods was very dominant in amateur and professional matchplay tournaments, but hardly has a good RC record.

Here's the reality: The top golfers will continue to flock to the US Tour. Why? Because the purses are bigger and top players want top money (and I'll suggest top competition). The European tour REALLY needs the money this event produces ... and unless they continue (as they have) to make it very competitive, sponsors and interest will start to fade away.

Greg "the ego" Norman was on the radio this weekend and said it's time for more team golf events. Good luck with that Greg. Save for the special events (and don't we have enough?) players will mostly (IMO) want 72 hole stroke play events ... where you are playing the entire field not just one competitor at a time.

Anyone want to bet the ET will allow more Captain's picks going forward?

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Post by super_realist Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:03 am

A much better post event reaction from Europe than id expect from America, following the Gleneagles disgrace when America rounded on their captain Europe displayed a lot more grace and sportsmanship.

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Post by JAS Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:25 am

pedro wrote:Jas, see Good Gollys post.

I know they are trying to protect the ET but they risk doing the opposite by insisting on x no. of spots from ET points - resulting in an increasingly weaker and weaker RC team.

Why did Paddy insist on 3 picks when Bjorn had 4? Ok, we wouldn’t have won anyway, but it’s worthwhile considering for the future.

Key point right there Pedro, we could have had 12 captains picks and included the ROW (e.g. Louis) and we STILL wouldn’t have won this time round. Their b team I.e. their next 12 would have given us a close run.

So in the end, the tinkering with picks and the Euro points/world points equation could be done but would it really make that much difference. Categorically it wouldn’t have this time round, next time, who knows.
What is a bit more concerning is the imbalance on the talent coming through. I personally don’t think that’s to do with the tours. Good Europeans once established can gravitate to the pgat. I simply would say No to the question….Do bigger purses automatically make better golfers?. I wonder what Bobby Jones (if he was still around) would answer if that question was put to him

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Post by super_realist Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:41 am

Im a bit concerned that Europe dont have the same calibre of players coming through. Calum Hill, Laurie Canter, Grant Forester etc wouldnt even frighten Matt Fitzpatrick.

We need half a dozen Hovland's and Rham's

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Post by pedro Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:34 pm

There are more golfers in the US. And there are more US golfers in the top 100/200. There always have been and there always will. And as far as I know they have a good youth system, and for sure a good feeder tour. So they shouldn’t worry about producing good golfers.

But what we could do is give our captain the option / flexibility to pick the team he thinks will prevail, rather than being constrained by 3 picks only.

He may opt to pick the next on the qualification list (as they used to do in the US), but he could also go down the ranks and pick whomever he thought would fit the match play format. Not saying it would fix the problem of a weak tour or lack of talent, but we need more flexibility in picking the team.

Continuing to give artificial life support to the ET by maintaining the current qualification system, won’t suffice in the future. The war is long lost to the PGAT.

There could be many ways of designing the qualification system without throwing the ET tournaments under the bus. But fact of the matter is that more and more Euro players play on the PGAT or in the big tournaments, and due to the growing disparity btw regular ET purses and WGC/Major purses, the European points list becomes increasingly more irrelevant.

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Post by dynamark Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:55 pm

Hey they were very very good putts were landing and fully deserved a solid win .We did seem overwhelmed by the occasion and lack of support .What a super golf course very easy on the eye and great variety of hole length did the event proud.

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Post by GPB Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:57 pm

Personally, I don't like a lot of Captain's picks on either side of the aisle. I do acknowledge that a couple of necessary in case a good player was injured and missed to many event to earn the event on merit.

But too many picks could give the sense of cronyism. A player (ie interloper) that is not part of the "good-ole boy club" has little chance to make the team. If the US Team continues with 6 picks a player like Patrick Reed really has no chance to make the team.

If Europe had 6 picks, I don't think Bernd Weisberger ever would have been part of their team.

I think most of the team should be made through objective critieria rather than subjective criteria.

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Post by super_realist Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:04 pm

I think (from a European perspective) that there used to be just two picks.
Wiesberger is a quality player but like a lot of the Europeans this week and most of the Americans in Paris simply had an off week. You ca'nt judge him on one week. Not like youd have Slovakian tour promoter Sabbatini instead is it? 😉

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Post by McLaren Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:05 pm

Is playing well on the ET still an effective way to gauge whether or not a player is world class?

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Post by super_realist Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:15 pm

McLaren wrote:Is playing well on the ET still an effective way to gauge whether or not a player is world class?


Who said you had to be World Class? Were Paul McGinley, Jamie Donaldson, Hal Sutton, Christy O Conner, David Gilford, Robert Karlsson, Kenny Perry, Chris Riley, Sam Torrance,  Vaughn Taylor, Howard Clark etc world class?


Last edited by super_realist on Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:43 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by beninho Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:11 pm

If he had an extra pick, isn't it likely Rose would have been in fir Wiesberger. Which is hardly forward thinking.

The Danish twins and Guido look good prospects

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Post by McLaren Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:38 pm

Super

Hal Sutton was a phenom as a college player and young PGAT player. He was world class. As was kenny perry, one of the best players never to win a major.

But I get your point. In the past the on paper ability or OWGR were not always the best way to judge which team would win. But was that because the PGAT and ET were more similar in terms of quality and depth than they now are?

I guess my thinking is that I would like to see how a player like Fitzpatrick would develop if he could get a few full time PGAT seasons under his belt. Playing against better players week in week out has to help.
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Post by pedro Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:33 pm

Fitz has had 2 Ryder Cups and he’s 0-5. He’s 27 and has proven he’s not the future of European golf.
Until he starts dominating world golf or win some majors, he’s the kind of player we should avoid on the team.

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Post by super_realist Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:31 am

McLaren wrote:Super

Hal Sutton was a phenom as a college player and young PGAT player. He was world class. As was kenny perry, one of the best players never to win a major.

But I get your point. In the past the on paper ability or OWGR were not always the best way to judge which team would win. But was that because the PGAT and ET were more similar in terms of quality and depth than they now are?

I guess my thinking is that I would like to see how a player like Fitzpatrick would develop if he could get a few full time PGAT seasons under his belt. Playing against better players week in week out has to help.  

I was mostly referring to times when the PGA was far superior. Guys like Oleson, Colsaerts, Bello, Donaldson have been good players whilst being part of European Tour.
You dont have to be "world class" to play in the Ryder Cup
Who gives a toss what you were like as a college player?

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Post by beninho Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:31 pm

Jamie Donaldson was world ranked 25 in 2014.  In fact looming at the 2014 team it was really good, with players at a peak, 4 top 10 in the world plus 2 in the teens.  Though 4 played this time, while only 1 American did, Spieth.

Dubuison was young though, what could have been with him. Or just always going to be a quick flash of a player not a long term one.

Mchinly gets hailed but the team was good.

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Post by super_realist Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:54 pm

Stephen Gallacher Ben?

Whatever happen to De Buisson. Looked like he was heading for the big time, then disappeared faster than Mannaserro

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Post by beninho Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:45 pm

Stevie G was world number 34, he started the year in the 60s. He was obviously trending. Alas he was paired with Poulter in foursomes against soueth and Reed then Mickelson in singles.

In 2014 only 2 ranked lower then 34, this year we had 6.

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Post by super_realist Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:11 pm

beninho wrote:Stevie G was world number 34, he started the year in the 60s. He was obviously trending.  Alas he was paired with Poulter in foursomes against soueth and Reed then Mickelson in singles.

In 2014 only 2 ranked lower then 34, this year we had 6.

Fair enough, hadnt realised he had ever been ranked that high.

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Post by GPB Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:20 pm

pedro wrote:Fitz has had 2 Ryder Cups and he’s 0-5. He’s 27 and has proven he’s not the future of European golf.
Until he starts dominating world golf or win some majors, he’s the kind of player we should avoid on the team.

If it makes you feel any better, Fitz has a younger brother Alex who was on the Walker Cup team earlier this year.

Alex lost all four of his matches.

Jamie Weir of Sky Sports has Alex as a possible future Ryder Cup star for Europe.

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Post by McLaren Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:19 pm

Something that has always bugged me. How come no one ever mentions that Tiger conceded a putt to molinari in 2012 that guaranteed Europe won outright rather than just retained? Molinari would only have had to hole a 3 footer, but Tiger had just missed one. Would it have been a miracle of the match was only tied?

Anyway, how come the "Jacklin Nicklaus award" is not the "Jacklin Nicklaus Tiger award"?
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Post by GPB Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:26 pm

Because Tiger was a Lieutenant in Mark O'Meara's Pay for Play Mutiny in 1999.

He will alway have that monkey on his back

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