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England's Summer of Cricket 2021

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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 12:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

That's the important wicket. Deserved for Robinson and England.

Now into that brittle middle order.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 02 Sep 2021, 4:48 pm

Bairstow with a very poor drop
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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 4:48 pm

50 for Thakur in a blink. Goodness.

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Post by alfie Thu 02 Sep 2021, 4:51 pm

Thakur continues to prosper...not everything going where it's aimed but he's on to 43 and these two have added 48...

All going wrong for England as Bairstow spills one off the glove from Yadav !

Shades of Lord's late order hitting...Fifty for Thakur. Vital runs.

Don't think England have gone silly in the manner of that other match : these two have just middled a lot - and got away with the mishits...

185/7 a huge improvement. Still no Moeen.

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Post by GSC Thu 02 Sep 2021, 4:55 pm

Woakes ends the fun via review.
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Post by alfie Thu 02 Sep 2021, 4:56 pm

Woakes likes this one...

He might have one ? Yes he does ! England needed that - a good review for a change !

Thakur gone for an "enterprising" 57 . Which I guess also shows that this is quite a good batting surface now...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 02 Sep 2021, 4:57 pm

Not sure how the umpire didn’t give that on field

Good little blast from Thakur - didn’t think England did any wrong, some good blows interspersed with a lot of luck
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Post by GSC Thu 02 Sep 2021, 4:58 pm

Dropped but run out

England have been distinctly garbage in the field today
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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 4:58 pm

Four drops from England....but the cameraman's had a worse day!

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Post by alfie Thu 02 Sep 2021, 4:58 pm

All happening now ! Dropped catch...but turned into a run out !

Quick thinking from Burns clap

190/9

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Post by GSC Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:01 pm

All out for 191. Thakur spares India somewhat
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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:02 pm

191ao. Good bowling, some top catches and awful drops, and an entertaining cameo from Thakur.

Advantage firmly with England, though not as big as it could have been.

61.3 overs bowled in five hours. Doh

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:03 pm

191 all out - Root would’ve snapped your hand off for that at the toss

Time for England to make this 1st innings count
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Post by GSC Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:05 pm

Momentum can be a funny thing and India just grabbed some at the end of their inning. Still, should show that the pitch itself really isn't doing much
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Post by alfie Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:07 pm

England a bit lucky the drops didn't really cost much - barring the Kohli miss I guess.

Ironically finished with a very good catch by the keeper now as the last three fell for just one run after the Thakur blast session...

191 all out is probably as good as Root would have hoped for at the toss. Though but for that bit of successful bashing it might have been about 150 . Can't be greedy. Now all about batting properly , as per last week.

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:08 pm

Shardul slogged India to a total that is half-close to half-decent. England will take till close to tea tomorrow to overtake that. And Root's due a failure isn't he? Law of Averages and all that? The track should get better for batting from tomorrow, and India of course are without Ashwin, and Shami too. Will take something dramatic from Jasprit to somehow keep them alive in the match beyond tea tomorrow.

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:10 pm

And yet again, India lose 3-1 at the end.
The likes of Javagal Srinath, Anil Kumble, Harbhajan and Zaheer used to be able to make more telling contributions far more regularly.
Can't really complain too much when your top 7 collectively decide to be a disgrace though.

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Post by alfie Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:10 pm

msp83 wrote:Shardul slogged India to a total that is half-close to half-decent. England will take till close to tea tomorrow to overtake that. And Root's due a failure isn't he? Law of Averages and all that? The track should get better for batting from tomorrow, and India of course are without Ashwin, and Shami too. Will take something dramatic from Jasprit to somehow keep them alive in the match beyond tea tomorrow.

At least Kohli can't give the new ball to Ishant Smile

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:16 pm

alfie wrote:
msp83 wrote:Shardul slogged India to a total that is half-close to half-decent. England will take till close to tea tomorrow to overtake that. And Root's due a failure isn't he? Law of Averages and all that? The track should get better for batting from tomorrow, and India of course are without Ashwin, and Shami too. Will take something dramatic from Jasprit to somehow keep them alive in the match beyond tea tomorrow.

At least Kohli can't give the new ball to Ishant Smile
He can give it to Umesh though! And I don't like it! Should have been Bumrah, and if he wanted to bowl from the other end, then Siraj with the first over.
Umesh is not one for control. Can't afford to give away easy runs. They should bowl dry... Bumrah can do that, Siraj not so much. And Umesh doesn't know what that means!

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:18 pm

Its Bumrah from the other end.
Siraj is good with the old ball, perhaps that's what Kohli is looking at .
Think I would have given Shardul the new ball in stead of Umesh, he can sometimes swing it, if there is any available. Just wish Bhuvi was here...

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Post by alfie Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:27 pm

Good start for Bumrah ! No century opening stand today for England...


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Post by guildfordbat Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:191ao. Good bowling, some top catches and awful drops, and an entertaining cameo from Thakur.

Advantage firmly with England, though not as big as it could have been.

61.3 overs bowled in five hours. Doh

Going to be well short tonight even with the extra half-hour. Same tomorrow and I'll be after some dosh back.

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Post by alfie Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:31 pm

And now Hameed gone as well ! Bumrah and India on fire...

6/2 and all up to Root as usual Sad

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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:31 pm

Great start for India and Bumrah. Not a wise shot from Hameed, and Burns must be leading a table for 'chopped on' dismissals. Bumrah has been brilliant, though.

Mammoth hour now with Root coming to the crease.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 02 Sep 2021, 5:52 pm

Two really soft dismissals from Burns and Hameed - even worse considering the match context, giving India a sniff and shot at Root tonight
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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 6:26 pm

Huge late wicket. Top delivery from Yadav taking the top of Root's stumps.

India not ahead in the game, but this has been a commendable fightback.

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Post by alfie Thu 02 Sep 2021, 6:27 pm

Inspired bowling change and Yadav has done the impossible...

Root out for less than 100... Rather a lot less , in fact. Perfect top of off !

Even after the two openers failed , you'd think India really needed something like that in these last few minutes to give themselves real optimism for tomorrow. That wicket will have given them a huge lift...

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Post by alfie Thu 02 Sep 2021, 6:33 pm

So it's 53/3 at the close .

Great day of cricket and I guess that late wicket means it is almost even , given England must bat last. Think I'd still rather be in the home team's dressing room ; but someone else will need to bat big this time as the law of averages caught up with the skipper at last...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 02 Sep 2021, 6:34 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Two really soft dismissals from Burns and Hameed - even worse considering the match context, giving India a sniff and shot at Root tonight

And he gets a beauty - half put that Root dismissal down to the openers there, shockingly soft dismissals to ordinary balls, allowing the Indians a shot a Root and Yadav gets him with a beauty.
Right back in this game now, albeit England still shading it
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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 6:37 pm

A day of good bowling and dodgy batting.

England ahead, but not by much. They seem to have weathered the early storm with Malan and Root's partnership, then Yadav's late wicket happened. May be pivotal. Malan's looked good since his recall.

England do bat deep and they'll need to squirm there way to 250 minimum tomorrow to retain their advantage.

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 6:50 pm

That late wicket, the wicket of Joe Root, for his first non-top scoring effort of the series?, has put some serious life back into India. That's the thing with Umesh, he's generally all over the shop, and then will produce a real wicket-taker from somewhere. He's never going to offer you control, but if he can keep producing 2 or 3 of these tomorrow morning, and Bumrah can find support from Siraj and Shardul who both bowled poorly in the evening today, India could still make something out of this. England bat all the way down to 10, and small contributions from all the rest of the lineup itself will take them pass the Indian total. But India, can at least hope, unlike at the end of day 1 at Headingley.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 02 Sep 2021, 6:51 pm

Look at the value of having a batsman at No.8.....esp when you are a crap batting line-up with your  Big 3 batters  averaging barely 25
Every 10, 15, 20 runs scraped give you a little fighting ammunition

Ind didn't get bowled out for 78 was a positive start, although there were makings of it
I would have take twice as much ...as I wished Ind had squeezed out somehow in T3...but there Ind did not have depth...today they did ...and got 2.5 times  of 78

Look at why I am a fan of Shardul....he will add to his game changing batting blitz with 3 or 4 or 5 wkts during the match....I think...and when you least expect him....he plucks out 2 in a row.

Look at what I thought...Eng are worth barely 150 runs if you remove Root.....still a hypothesis Very Happy
My prognosis though....Ind will end up taking a slender lead...in this battle of crap batting sides (minus Root)
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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 7:00 pm

The Ashwin question, at the day one. Had he come in for Ishant, in stead of Shardul, he might be bowling with a score much less than 191. Ash can surely bat, but the kind of innings that came for Shardul today, is unlikely from Ashwin. And with 7 down, the only innings that could have succeeded was the one that Thakur played.
But Ashwin would have surely offered a far more serious wicket-taking threat, and would have facilitated Bumrah, who is now forced to both attack and contain, as neither Umesh nor Siraj are best known for containing, and Shardul is nowhere near peak Ishant on form, when it comes to bowling dry. Jadeja won't give away easy runs, but I don't think the batters will be too worried about him being a wicket-taking threat in the first innings on day 2. So they might be able to play out Bumrah with greater confidence...
And apart from that delivery from Umesh, the ball had stopped doing things, and the pitch seemed to have become easier to bat on. England do have good stroke players in the lineup, 20s and 30s from Moeen, Bairstow Pope and Woakes, is all that they need.
They would be hoping that Malan, who got a start, will be able to carry on and bat deep, like a number 3 is supposed to do. And unlike India's number 3, Malan's approach is not playing out balls and waiting for opportunities, he's far more proactive in looking to score.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 02 Sep 2021, 7:04 pm

Yadav is not the best of seamers Ind has but brings variation,,,,,,In an other wise line/up of tall high arm action Siraj, Ishant, Bumrah, Shami all alike high release points
Yadav is slightly side arm, lower slightly slingy release, lower trajectory...skids in a lot faster at 87mph..from a good length then at similar pace a high arm release aforesaid bowlers would
And that's what did Root...skidded in a lot faster through his gate
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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 7:05 pm

KP_fan wrote:Look at the value of having a batsman at No.8.....esp when you are a crap batting line-up with your  Big 3 batters  averaging barely 25
Every 10, 15, 20 runs scraped give you a little fighting ammunition

Ind didn't get bowled out for 78 was a positive start, although there were makings of it
I would have take twice as much ...as I wished Ind had squeezed out somehow in T3...but there Ind did not have depth...today they did ...and got 2.5 times  of 78

Look at why I am a fan of Shardul....he will add to his game changing batting blitz with 3 or 4 or 5 wkts during the match....I think...and when you least expect him....he plucks out 2 in a row.

Look at what I thought...Eng are worth barely 150 runs if you remove Root.....still a hypothesis Very Happy
My prognosis though....Ind will end up taking a slender lead...in this battle of crap batting sides (minus Root)
You have always rated Shardul, KPF. I am still not convinced by his bowling, though his batting is OK for a number 8 and today he surely saved them from total humiliation, and through Bumrah and Umesh, eventually provided the platform for a bit of hope.
Not sure about his bowling though, doesn't seem to have anything special about his bowling. Doesn't have the pace, doesn't have the swing of the Kumars. But lets hope he doesn't let you down with the ball.
With Robinson now set to come in at 10, and with 53 already on the board on a flattening pitch, even without Root, I have a feeling England will eventually be able to take a 50-80 lead...

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 7:08 pm

KP_fan wrote:Yadav is not the best of seamers Ind has but brings variation,,,,,,In an other wise line/up of tall high arm action Siraj, Ishant, Bumrah, Shami all alike high release points
Yadav is slightly side arm, lower slightly slingy release, lower trajectory...skids in a lot faster at 87mph..from a good length then at similar pace a high arm release aforesaid bowlers would
And that's what did Root...skidded in a lot faster through his gate
Umesh and Shami both have impressive home records. But unlike the latter, Umesh tends to underperform in conditions where fast bowlers would find some help usually. Hope he keeps his pace up, and would produce some good wicket-taking deliveries in between tomorrow.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 02 Sep 2021, 7:20 pm

msp wrote:But Ashwin would have surely offered a far more serious wicket-taking threat, and would have facilitated Bumrah, who is now forced to both attack and contain, as neither Umesh nor Siraj are best known for containing, and Shardul is nowhere near peak Ishant on form,

I wasn't too hung up on Ashwin...I was OK as long as they brought either of Ashwin or Thakur.....both woulld deliver more with bat and better bowlers than Ishant in current form

Don't write off shardul after 3 overs.....he will play a role with the ball....in potentially 17 more wickets to be taken
Yadav is not bad as a variation as I wrote in my previous post....only that IMO he is a better old ball bowler.....when ball is gripping & pitch is dry (like this one is)...he bowls skiddy off-cutters touching 90 mph and with reverse if the pitch is scuffed up,.......that's why his record in India is probably a lot better

Shardul should take new ball....he bowls in 80-85mph...swings it in the air
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Post by KP_fan Thu 02 Sep 2021, 7:25 pm

Ind did tactically the right thing by trying to put a "defensive" Rahane between attacking Jadeja and Pant...and put one RHB between 2 LHBs
BUt
didn't come off...probably Pant at 5v and Jadeja at 7 is better way to do it
Don't fix what ain't broke...Jadeja was doing fine at 7
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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Sep 2021, 7:29 pm

KP_fan wrote:Look at the value of having a batsman at No.8.....esp when you are a crap batting line-up with your  Big 3 batters  averaging barely 25
Every 10, 15, 20 runs scraped give you a little fighting ammunition

Ind didn't get bowled out for 78 was a positive start, although there were makings of it
I would have take twice as much ...as I wished Ind had squeezed out somehow in T3...but there Ind did not have depth...today they did ...and got 2.5 times  of 78

Look at why I am a fan of Shardul....he will add to his game changing batting blitz with 3 or 4 or 5 wkts during the match....I think...and when you least expect him....he plucks out 2 in a row.

Look at what I thought...Eng are worth barely 150 runs if you remove Root.....still a hypothesis Very Happy
My prognosis though....Ind will end up taking a slender lead...in this battle of crap batting sides (minus Root)

I'm glad we've reached agreement on the woefulness of India's batting. thumbsup

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 02 Sep 2021, 10:03 pm

msp83 wrote:
...
With Robinson now set to come in at 10, and with 53 already on the board on a flattening pitch, even without Root, I have a feeling England will eventually be able to take a 50-80 lead...

Hi msp - although I'm normally as pessimistic about England's chances as you are about India's, I share the same feeling as you for tomorrow. Maybe even a 100+ lead*. You neatly flag key factors for me plus just one decent partnership will heavily bite into India's existing lead. And whilst my dislike of night watchmen is well rehearsed, I have to acknowledge that Overton isn't the usual gift of an automatic early wicket to give your bowlers a lift.

* Apologies now to all England supporters if this turns into some horrendous jinx. Anyway, not long before we find out. First session tomorrow - possibly moving session, Carlos? Smile

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 02 Sep 2021, 10:43 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
msp83 wrote:
...
With Robinson now set to come in at 10, and with 53 already on the board on a flattening pitch, even without Root, I have a feeling England will eventually be able to take a 50-80 lead...

Hi msp - although I'm normally as pessimistic about England's chances as you are about India's, I share the same feeling as you for tomorrow. Maybe even a 100+ lead*. You neatly flag key factors for me plus just one decent partnership will heavily bite into India's existing lead. And whilst my dislike of night watchmen is well rehearsed, I have to acknowledge that Overton isn't the usual gift of an automatic early wicket to give your bowlers a lift.    

* Apologies now to all England supporters if this turns into some horrendous jinx. Anyway, not long before we find out. First session tomorrow - possibly moving session, Carlos? Smile

I was just coming onto post about the nightwatchman - Overton is a rare example of one, who I am just about ok with. As you say, he’s more than good enough to hang around for an annoying 20/30 runs in about an hour tomorrow morning. Would be incredibly handy if he did so!
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Post by king_carlos Fri 03 Sep 2021, 12:38 am

Definitely feels like a moving session, guildford.

Moving day is often the penultimate day of a Test. Given 13 wickets fell on D1 we may well be looking at the penultimate day tomorrow with how both sides are batting! Laugh

It's intriguingly poised. There aren't many demons in the pitch and England bat deep but Root is gone. That ball from Yadav to remove him was an absolute nut as well. Spectacular seam bowling.

Pope averages 100 in FC cricket at the Oval. Now is the time young man.

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Post by alfie Fri 03 Sep 2021, 5:29 am

Fascinating first day and the promise of more such on Friday. You would think that England ought to be able to cash in on presumably easier batting conditions on day two ; but with Root gone a couple of early wickets could cause grief...

Very good day for the forgotten man , Chris Woakes : back in the team at last and the best bowler by a distance. Four wickets , might well have been five or six. Excellent display. In fact England bowled generally well as a group and despite the Thakur Blast bowled India out for an arguably well under par total.
As for that late partnership : unlike Lord's it wasn't a case of losing their heads. Root kept his catchers up rather than scattering them to all points of the boundary (in truth there was probably a good case this time for setting a fly slip/catching third man !) but the good hits went where they were aimed and the mishits fell safely...happens sometimes. Thakur has a good eye and plenty of power and deserves credit as well as the bit of luck he had. Made a very poor score into something a little more respectable.

Apart from the late loss of Root (good ball !) the disappointing thing for England was the way the two openers - so lauded a week or so ago - got out. I do not know whether Oscar Wilde took much interest in cricket ; but if he had attended this match he might perhaps have been moved to comment : To lose one opener like that might be regarded as misfortune ; to lose both looks like carelessness...

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Post by KP_fan Fri 03 Sep 2021, 8:25 am

Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Look at the value of having a batsman at No.8.....esp when you are a crap batting line-up with your  Big 3 batters  averaging barely 25
Every 10, 15, 20 runs scraped give you a little fighting ammunition

Ind didn't get bowled out for 78 was a positive start, although there were makings of it
I would have take twice as much ...as I wished Ind had squeezed out somehow in T3...but there Ind did not have depth...today they did ...and got 2.5 times  of 78

Look at why I am a fan of Shardul....he will add to his game changing batting blitz with 3 or 4 or 5 wkts during the match....I think...and when you least expect him....he plucks out 2 in a row.

Look at what I thought...Eng are worth barely 150 runs if you remove Root.....still a hypothesis Very Happy
My prognosis though....Ind will end up taking a slender lead...in this battle of crap batting sides (minus Root)

I'm glad we've reached agreement on the woefulness of India's batting. thumbsup

By agreeing to my post you are agreeing to the crap nature of English batting Even in their Home Conditions England's Summer of Cricket 2021 - Page 3 1f601
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Post by KP_fan Fri 03 Sep 2021, 8:31 am

alfie wrote:I do not know whether Oscar Wilde took much interest in cricket ; but if he had attended this match he might perhaps have been moved to comment : To lose one opener like that might be regarded as misfortune ; to lose both looks like carelessness...Incompetence
I take the liberty to extend your liberty on imagining Wilde's quote England's Summer of Cricket 2021 - Page 3 1f600
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Post by Duty281 Fri 03 Sep 2021, 8:33 am

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Look at the value of having a batsman at No.8.....esp when you are a crap batting line-up with your  Big 3 batters  averaging barely 25
Every 10, 15, 20 runs scraped give you a little fighting ammunition

Ind didn't get bowled out for 78 was a positive start, although there were makings of it
I would have take twice as much ...as I wished Ind had squeezed out somehow in T3...but there Ind did not have depth...today they did ...and got 2.5 times  of 78

Look at why I am a fan of Shardul....he will add to his game changing batting blitz with 3 or 4 or 5 wkts during the match....I think...and when you least expect him....he plucks out 2 in a row.

Look at what I thought...Eng are worth barely 150 runs if you remove Root.....still a hypothesis Very Happy
My prognosis though....Ind will end up taking a slender lead...in this battle of crap batting sides (minus Root)

I'm glad we've reached agreement on the woefulness of India's batting. thumbsup

By agreeing to my post you are agreeing to the crap nature of English batting Even in their Home Conditions  England's Summer of Cricket 2021 - Page 3 1f601

Yes, I think we all know that England's batting is weak, with the exception of Root and Stokes.

I'm unsure if you've missed my posts, and practically every other poster's thoughts for that matter, bemoaning the weakness of England's top order for the past few years, and the eternal shuffling that is going on as a result.

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Post by msp83 Fri 03 Sep 2021, 8:40 am

I just noticed, that Moeen Ali, who didn't get to bowl in India's first innings, is 1 wicket away from surpassing Jim Laker's tally of wickets. Laker is arguably, England's best ever spinner...
Moeen's surely not in that league, but he's surely among the better spinners that England have had, and his achievements as a bowler alone, would demand greater respect than he sometimes gets.

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Post by sirfredperry Fri 03 Sep 2021, 8:53 am

England's batting has been generally rootless for some time and today they are going to have show what they can do Root-less.

Joe was due for a low score. Indeed, if you look at his record earlier in the year he hit huge scores in three successive Tests then went 11 innings without passing 50.

Only Bradman has managed to make lots of 100s and still average 100. (OK, 99.94).

If Root was to fail it's better when the team are only chasing 191. As well said above, England, at least on paper, bat deep and only need modest contributions from a few players to get something of a lead.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 03 Sep 2021, 9:03 am

Yes despite some good work last night from India, they're still going to need a good morning session here to really wrestle back control in this one - if England can get through the morning losing only 1, at a push 2 wickets (one being the nightwatchman) then they should be able to push on in the afternoon and take a lead
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Post by Duty281 Fri 03 Sep 2021, 9:22 am

Batting conditions should be better today with some sunshine forecast and the ball already 17 overs old. Up to at least one of Malan/Bairstow/Pope to make an 80+ contribution with the bat, then whatever the four allrounders pick up can be regarded as a bonus contribution. It's a very good opportunity for those three batsmen to make a potentially match-winning effort - Malan is surely locked in for the number three spot in Australia, but Bairstow and Pope are battling for their places and a large score will go a long way to securing their spots.

250 would put England in a good position, 300 a commanding and almost match-winning one. All of England's batsmen that are left are fluent scorers so it may only take two sessions of batting to get close to that 250 score.

Other than Bumrah's opening spell and Yadav's magic delivery, I don't think India bowled especially well yesterday. They'll need to tighten up and take at least two wickets in the opening hour otherwise their lead will disappear quickly.

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Post by KP_fan Fri 03 Sep 2021, 9:31 am

Siraj was attacking too much as was Kohli with his fielding
Siraj needs to be calmed down...let the ball do talking on his behalf...he was bordering in the last 2 tests on becoming uncouth like Andre Nel & Damien Fleming appeared one time

and Kohli needs to put a third man fairly early esp for Malan
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