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England's Summer of Cricket 2021

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TRUSSMAN66
AlciG
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Mind the windows Tino.
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king_carlos
KP_fan
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Good Golly I'm Olly
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Post by Duty281 Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:11 am

First topic message reminder :

That's the important wicket. Deserved for Robinson and England.

Now into that brittle middle order.

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Post by Duty281 Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:07 am

Not good from Overton.

Important innings for Pope. Important partnership in the context of the test.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:08 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
msp83 wrote:
...
With Robinson now set to come in at 10, and with 53 already on the board on a flattening pitch, even without Root, I have a feeling England will eventually be able to take a 50-80 lead...

Hi msp - although I'm normally as pessimistic about England's chances as you are about India's, I share the same feeling as you for tomorrow. Maybe even a 100+ lead*. You neatly flag key factors for me plus just one decent partnership will heavily bite into India's existing lead. And whilst my dislike of night watchmen is well rehearsed, I have to acknowledge that Overton isn't the usual gift of an automatic early wicket to give your bowlers a lift.    

* Apologies now to all England supporters if this turns into some horrendous jinx. Anyway, not long before we find out. First session tomorrow - possibly moving session, Carlos? Smile

I was just coming onto post about the nightwatchman - Overton is a rare example of one, who I am just about ok with. As you say, he’s more than good enough to hang around for an annoying 20/30 runs in about an hour tomorrow morning. Would be incredibly handy if he did so!

And there is the downside of the nightwatchman...
India have a real chance to get on top here
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Post by alfie Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:08 am

One of the reasons against using a night watchman...

Gives the opposition a great start the next morning - all too often.

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Post by king_carlos Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:15 am

msp83 wrote:I just noticed, that Moeen Ali, who didn't get to bowl in India's first innings, is 1 wicket away from surpassing Jim Laker's tally of wickets. Laker is arguably, England's best ever spinner...
Moeen's surely not in that league, but he's surely among the better spinners that England have had, and his achievements as a bowler alone, would demand greater respect than he sometimes gets.

It's a conversation that's been had over and over again but I think Mo's bowling is respected, it's just viewed in perspective of his strengths and weaknesses. He has a fantastic strike rate, has always been able to turn the ball big, flight it well and bowl wicket taking deliveries but he struggles for control hence his high average and economy.

I said at the start of the series that I see merit in Mo being picked as a bowler at home given the role we usually need our spinner to play here. We practically always pick 4 seamers now and they usually bowl so economically that we don't need a spinner to 'tie down an end' and bowl long spells. We usually need our spinner to chip in with a wicket to break a partnership or get a key batsman out once they are set. Mo's excellent strike rate is indicative of a bowler well suited to that.

Mo's Test batting is criticised a lot but in my opinion that's fair as he is a frustrating batsman against the red ball. He has so much talent with the bat and strikes the ball so beautifully but his batting in the longer form has large flaws (namely flashing outside off and the short ball) that he's never addressed. He gets criticised with the bat but it is a frustration watching a player with all that talent average about 16 in the last 5 years whilst getting out in repetitive and predictable ways.

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Post by king_carlos Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:16 am

Poop.

That gets India's tails up early.

A really important knock for Pope this.

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Post by king_carlos Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:16 am

Poop.

That gets India's tails up early.

A really important knock for Pope this.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:23 am

You can say that again.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Soul Requiem Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:27 am

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:You can say that again.

Poop.

That gets India's tails up early.

A really important knock for Pope this.

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Post by KP_fan Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:33 am

well done mark butcher Very Happy
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Post by Duty281 Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:34 am

Yep, Butcher's wicket. Malan had looked serene until then.

England in some difficulty.

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Post by Duty281 Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:38 am

Shane Warne would make a terrible umpire.

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Post by KP_fan Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:39 am

Yadav's low trajectory skiddy cutters troubling everyone
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Post by JDizzle Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:59 am

That’s the first innings this series Root hasn’t top scored for England. Even if the first innings at TB and second innings at Lord’s he managed it.

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Post by Duty281 Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:59 am

Shane Warne watching a different game to me, calling almost everything wrong. 'That's a four'...no it isn't, not even close!

Pope and Bairstow have settled at the crease, and the excellent probing duo of Bumrah and Yadav are now out of the attack. Chance for England to get back into ascendancy over the next hour.

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Post by KP_fan Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:06 am

Ind's hour
Pope is crouching & lunging at the ball....with minimal feet movement
Matter of time before he goes....he could go almost in any way, LBW, edge, caught at cover, caught hooking
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Post by Duty281 Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:11 am

Pope looking in excellent touch as he takes Thakur to the rope four times. Exhibition stuff.

Bairstow not quite timing his shots at t'other end.

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Post by king_carlos Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:16 am

Lovely stuff from Pope there. I'll keep saying it, he loves batting at the Oval!

The on-drive in particular was a beaut.

Another flurry of boundaries off Siraj. The Bairstow clip through midwicket had my heart in my mouth but he's still out there.

Vital runs for England to put the pressure back on India.

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Post by king_carlos Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:21 am

Yadav back already. Important moment as he's bowled very well so far.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:24 am

Bairstow should've chinned that prat who keeps running on the pitch
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Post by king_carlos Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:25 am

Yeah, Jarvo has rather overdone the joke now.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:26 am

Where's Andrew Symonds when you need him?

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Post by Duty281 Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:26 am

50 partnership. clap

Badly needed, this has been a strong counter-attacking effort. Pope looks in sublime touch.

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Post by GSC Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:28 am

Why does that prick keep making it onto the field?

Can we just ban him with a suspended sentence now
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Post by king_carlos Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:29 am

50 partnership. 41 runs in 23 balls. There have been streaky moments but they are batting fluently. Another hour of this would set England up brilliantly with Mo and Woakes to come.

Such an important partnership. This is another nicely poised Test match. Perfect for the day off I've got to watch lots of it!

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Post by king_carlos Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:31 am

Soul Requiem wrote:Where's Andrew Symonds when you need him?

Jonny Bairstow was a very imposing centre in his rugby playing days so could definitely have floored the muppet. I went to a neighboring school, thankfully the age difference spared me being steamrollered by him in rugby though I did get the pleasure/pain of keeping whilst he blasted a couple of centuries against us. He's a serious athlete Bairstow, along with David Willey he used to dominate a lot of the England squads fitness tests.

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Post by VTR Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:32 am

It's a good counterattack, do have a bit of a concern it will be one shot too many at some point. There's runs to be made here, a bit of a calmer period might be the best approach now some damage has been done

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Post by Duty281 Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:35 am

Yadav, unsurprisingly, looking fatigued after being brought back early. Surprised Kohli didn't opt for Jadeja for some possible control.

Lead down to 65 already, the run-rate has been around 4 this morning.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:36 am

king_carlos wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Where's Andrew Symonds when you need him?

Jonny Bairstow was a very imposing centre in his rugby playing days so could definitely have floored the muppet. I went to a neighboring school, thankfully the age difference spared me being steamrollered by him in rugby though I did get the pleasure/pain of keeping whilst he blasted a couple of centuries against us. He's a serious athlete Bairstow, along with David Willey he used to dominate a lot of the England squads fitness tests.

I did get the sense that Jonny twitched wanting to do something but thought better of it, he is a proper unit.

Is there an argument to be had that he replaces Buttler long term? Aside from the drop yesterday I do think he's the better test keeper and whilst neither are scoring big runs it does feel as though YJB has a big one round the corner. Ideally i'd have Foakes in the team but his latest injury has curtailed that chance for a while.

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Post by king_carlos Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:42 am

Bairstow needs to just have a word with Pope to keeps his head here. Early on Pope was prodding and reaching for it, then he got that rhythm where he was waiting on the ball and just 'meeting the ball' rather than trying to smash it. He's now reaching for them again. Just needs to keep his head and trust the bad balls will come.

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Post by king_carlos Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:43 am

A different but big challenge for Pope now as Jadeja comes on. Pope definitely plays seam better than spin.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:00 am

king_carlos wrote:He's a serious athlete Bairstow, along with David Willey he used to dominate a lot of the England squads fitness tests.

Appreciate this is a bit of "my uncle's, best mates neighbour", but a friend of mine used to do some physio work with Middlesex and England from time to time.

She told me back in the day that when JB first got in the team he wasn't very popular as he was too intense and spent most of his time working on his fitness and technique rather than sitting around talking about it. Some of the older heads just didn't get his demeanor and kept him at arms length whilst being a little snide behind his back.

Probably entirely different now but fits with your assessment above and interesting that the whole England team buy into the fitness thing much more now.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:03 am

As an expert on being a proper c**t, I can confirm that Shane Warne is one.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:04 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Yes despite some good work last night from India, they're still going to need a good morning session here to really wrestle back control in this one - if England can get through the morning losing only 1, at a push 2 wickets (one being the nightwatchman) then they should be able to push on in the afternoon and take a lead

A very good recovery from Bairstow/Pope, and I'd say it was a fairly even session there...maybe just shaded towards England. A real chance for them to take a good lead in the afternoon session...albeit they could still easily lose these last 5 wickets for 50 runs!
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Post by Duty281 Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:05 am

Excellent session for England - 86/2, the lead down to a mere 52.

Bumrah and Yadav started brilliantly with superb line and length, but Siraj and Thakur couldn't back it up, allowing Pope and Bairstow to establish themselves and then unleash a powerful counter-attack which has put England ahead again.

Pope has looked brilliant so far. Bairstow has got his fifth start in six innings in this series; so far he hasn't converted any of those starts to a large score.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:08 am

I can't agree on Pope looking brilliant, he's played some lovely shots with great timing but in between that he's looked frenetic and could have played on 4/5 times now. If I was Indian I would feel as though he's lucky to still be there.

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Post by alfie Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:32 am

king_carlos wrote:Yeah, Jarvo has rather overdone the joke now.

Yeah. It was actually quite funny - and harmless , being at an interval - the first time. Just stupid now. He must be rich to afford the fines !

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Post by alfie Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:36 am

Terrific session again. excellent start with the ball from India - and great catching. But this partnership has brought it back England's way - at least for now .

Lot to like about the way these two have played : nothing silly but plenty of intent. Lot more to do yet though...

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Post by sirfredperry Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:37 am

Stopped checking score when Malan was out and decided to wait to get all the bad news in one go at lunch.

Half expected England to be all out and happily surprised that they are still only five down.

After being 62-5, England will be happy for any sort of lead. However, to have a chance of winning they really need a good lead.

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Post by king_carlos Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:39 am

I'm not a fan of Mark Butcher as a commentator but that mini-doc Sky just showed over lunch was excellent. Hearing Syd Lawrence talk about racial abuse from within his own dressing room is eye opening for sure.

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Post by Duty281 Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:54 am

Surprised Jadeja's still turning his arm over after lunch, thought Kohli would have opted for Bumrah straight away.

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Post by Duty281 Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:01 am

Time for Moeen to make a solid contribution and repay the faith shown in him.

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Post by VTR Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:13 am

Even if the maligned one can score a quick 30, that would be pretty useful, this doesn't seem like a typical flat Oval pitch to me!

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Post by msp83 Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:18 am

Could catch the action only in bits so far.
India got rid of the nightwatchman without events, and then got through the set Malan before he could do damage. Then they lost it, completely failed to keep things tight, gave away too many boundary balls and lost the initiative in the only session wherein they could really have come back into the test. Far too many runs scored in that session for the Bairstow wicket to matter all that much. The depth in batting is going to give England the advantage here, they are set for a decent first innings lead.
Kohli was going on about Jadeja being lethal against left-handers and he suggested that that's one more reason why he's playing, and not Ashwin. That was Kohli at his ridiculous worst. there are logical cricketing reasons why Jadeja has to play ahead of Vihari and Suryakumar as the all-rounder. No way would he get into the team ahead of Ashwin as the spinner alone, not because he's a bad bowler, probably he's the 3rd best test spinner currently, but not better than the number 1 spinner in the world, who is also a nightmare for left-handers to face to.

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Post by msp83 Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:21 am

Said that, Jadeja should have bowled much earlier than he did in the first session. Umesh, Siraj or Thakur, none of them can really offer much control. Their profligacy led to India losing that session. Had Kohli rotated the quicks around Jadeja, things could have probably been better. His introduction has surely brought some calm to proceedings after Pope and Bairstow counterpunched so dramatically.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:22 am

VTR wrote:Even if the maligned one can score a quick 30, that would be pretty useful, this doesn't seem like a typical flat Oval pitch to me!

Trying to figure out if Mo Aligned works?

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Post by msp83 Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:24 am

Oliver Pope has played well for his half-century. But I don't think India bowled particularly well to him. Too many hit-me stuff, that he surely cashed in on. But despite the score on the board, Pope's technique or temperament doesn't suggest a serious improvement from the version we saw in India earlier this year.

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Post by msp83 Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:26 am

Bumrah v Moeen. Will be interesting. England only 19 away now.

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Post by VTR Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:26 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
VTR wrote:Even if the maligned one can score a quick 30, that would be pretty useful, this doesn't seem like a typical flat Oval pitch to me!

Trying to figure out if Mo Aligned works?

Well its a good as the one I've been mulling: Missing In Ashwin

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Post by msp83 Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:27 am

Poor start from Bumrah to his new spell. Too much on the pads in that first over so far. And the lengths have also been poor.

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Post by msp83 Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:30 am

The ball isn't doing much, the Indians have been trying to get it changed. Umpires aren't interested though. There is a fair way to the New ball. Time for England to make use of that time. Think Pope should try to stay through, let Moeen play his natural game. This defensive approach is not going to work for Moeen I feel. He's a delightful hitter, and at least against Shardul, he should proactively look to score, take the attack to the bowler a bit.

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