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England's Summer of Cricket 2021

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Post by Duty281 Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

That's the important wicket. Deserved for Robinson and England.

Now into that brittle middle order.

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Post by msp83 Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:28 pm

Test moving along nicely, England very much remain in possession of driving controls. India still in the game though, thanks to the openers who yet again have given them a decent enough start. That mini session could very well have been the end of the test as a contest had India lost one of them early and then exposed the misfiring Big 3 and beyond. England did have a chance but Rohit was reprieved by Burns.
Though they are still in the contest, a disappointing day for India. Even after Root could make only 21, they let England score nearly 300, despite having them at 62-5 that of course included the number 9. It is the last wicket partnership that's going to hurt them, too many were scored there, and Kohli missed a trick by not bringing Bumrah on straight away. Rather than waiting for the new ball, Bumrah should have been tasked with getting the last wicket. In stead, Woakes had an easier challenge against Shardul and Jadeja.

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Post by msp83 Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:22 pm

Bumrah was yet again the standout bowler for India though he didn't pick any wickets today. Kept it quiet and bowled more challenging overs than others. Umesh picked up 3 but was expensive and Siraj had an off game, bowling far too many hit-me stuff. Siraj and Shardul both on day one and 2, let the pressure off after Bumrah, and Umesh gave them an opening. Shardul didn't look like changing my perception of him as the 6th in line among the top 6 bowlers for India, would be 7th if Bhuvneshwar is fit and available. Pretty feeble effort from him, didn't look like getting a wicket, but more importantly, didn't manage to put a lid on the scoring either. Without his runs India would have been dead in the contest on day one itself, but he failed in his primary task. Surely, Ashwin would have been a different proposition...
Jadeja picked up a couple of wickets and kept the scoring in relative check. Kohli should have brought him earlier in the first session, should not have extended his spell after lunch and should have had Bumrah instead. Also, Jadeja had no business bowling after he did Robinson in. Despite the couple of wickets both down to pretty poor shots from the batters, Jadeja didn't really threaten much with the ball. But without Shami, and Ashwin, Jadeja needed to step up more...

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Post by KP_fan Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:19 am

msp83 wrote:Bumrah was yet again the standout bowler for India though he didn't pick any wickets today. Kept it quiet and bowled more challenging overs than others. Umesh picked up 3 but was expensive and Siraj had an off game, bowling far too many hit-me stuff. Siraj and Shardul both on day one and 2, let the pressure off after Bumrah, and Umesh gave them an opening. Shardul didn't look like changing my perception of him as the 6th in line among the top 6 bowlers for India, would be 7th if Bhuvneshwar is fit and available. Pretty feeble effort from him, didn't look like getting a wicket, but more importantly, didn't manage to put a lid on the scoring either. Without his runs India would have been dead in the contest on day one itself, but he failed in his primary task. Surely, Ashwin would have been a different proposition...
Jadeja picked up a couple of wickets and kept the scoring in relative check. Kohli should have brought him earlier in the first session, should not have extended his spell after lunch and should have had Bumrah instead. Also, Jadeja had no business bowling after he did Robinson in. Despite the couple of wickets both down to pretty poor shots from the batters, Jadeja didn't really threaten much with the ball. But without Shami, and Ashwin, Jadeja needed to step up more...

Shardul has a 7-fer and 4-fer in the last 2 tests he played for Ind and has a wicket so far here

Kohli is not handling the bowlers well.....they are not coming on field with as good plans as they had in Aus
Which was largely.....dry up the runs....if you can keep a batsman quiet & dry for 3 overs.....w wicket or near wicket appears
Kohli is going too aggressive...trying to blast out a wicket still.....and that's impacted the run rate of Eng (n positively)
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Post by guildfordbat Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:45 am

JDizzle wrote:Not been able to watch today - but how has Pope rotated the strike? He’s a got a very Root-lite score, being 73* with only 6 boundaries but still striking at 54. Normally means he is rotating nicely which is a killer to the ‘bowl dry’ plan.

Whereas Moeen and Bairstow had 7 boundaries in their 30s.

Although this doesn't explain Moeen and Bairstow hitting more boundaries, I thought the Oval outfield was slower than usual yesterday which probably kept Pope down to a couple of runs on the odd occasion. The practice wickets are normally near to the Gasholder and/or School boundary edges and the ball speeds up when going over them. However, for this Test, the practice wickets are nearer to the actual track. Possibly the outfield grass is a tad longer as well.

An enjoyable day at the ground and all in all a day which England won. However, still mixed with some frustrations and what ifs. I was more impressed with Pope's innings than some here but he did need to go properly on. Disappointing as well that Bairstow didn't stay with him longer. And then that Burns miss - very deflating, never seemed like we were going to take a wicket last night after that,

Agree with msp that Bumrah was the best bowler on show albeit with nothing yesterday in the end column.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:35 am

Met Office forecasting good bowling conditions for England today. Persistent cloud cover throughout the day, with plenty of dark cloud in the first session and a bit.

Reckon England will win this today by having to complete a small chase in the evening.

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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:47 am

Glad to hear you had a good day at the match , guildford....

So what happens today ?   In India's favour the conditions ought to be at their best for batting ; and after their good start they might reckon batting all day and establishing a lead of over 200 by the close won't be an unreasonable expectation. The England attack was very good in the first innings but it looks just a bit "samey" with four right arm seam bowlers , all capable of reasonable speeds but none what you would call express...might find it hard to force errors on a flat pitch if the batsmen remain diligent ?

However : the Indian team has been a bit prone to collapsing once a couple of wickets fall ; you wouldn't say any of their middle order are in top form - and the tail still looks a bit fragile. Added to which , although the catches behind the wicket which accounted for most of the first 15 wickets to fall haven't featured lately , we have seen one or two balls hint at keeping low...might be a day on which the in-ducking delivery could surprise someone ? And there is Moeen : not yet seen (I would have been inclined to give him an over or two last night) but at least a source of variety and a possible wicket or two. He has taken some against India here before...

How Root uses his bowlers may be important. Which makes me a bit nervous as I don't think he is very good at making game-changing moves when plan A isn't working. Even last week in the Indian second innings it seemed to be basically just keep plugging away and wait for the second new ball - which fortunately did the job that time. Don't have a lead of 350 this time though !

Could be wrong but I don't think the pitch is going to turn feral even into day five ; so England should in theory be able to chase 250 -280 or so (though I am always nervous with this side chasing 150 !) . Reckon India will want to target a lead of 300 plus but that is a long way off. Given the ups and downs of the first three games I am prepared for just about anything to happen today - except another appearance from Jarvo of course Smile

Edit : Hadn't seen Duty's weather update when I wrote this. Might be good news for England ? Though they did the job in bright sunshine on the last day in Leeds...

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Post by guildfordbat Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:56 am

Overcast not only at the ground but in the general proximity. Will take a little while to clear, I reckon.

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Post by king_carlos Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:58 am

guildfordbat wrote:Overcast not only at the ground but in the general proximity. Will take a little while to clear, I reckon.

Given this is around the point when the ball started swinging big in the 1st innings that is good news for England. The lacquer coming off the Dukes ball before it swings as many county pros will often talk about.

Hope it's another cracking day of cricket for you, Guildford.

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Post by king_carlos Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:17 am

As is often the case in the middle of an Oval Test this pitch is feeling rather flat after having the heavy roller on it. There is some swing there though.

This should be a good battle.

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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:31 am

Nothing dramatic in the first six overs. Couple gone past the outside edge but it isn't exactly hooping about.

Early change with Robinson on for Jimmy. Didn't think he was at his best last night but hopefully will be on the ball this morning. Doesn't look like a day for an early clatter of wickets so stringing a few maidens together might be an idea...

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Post by Duty281 Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:32 am

Not enough dots this morning. Strike rotation too easy and a very poor opening over from Robinson.

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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:35 am

Six hooked by Rahul ! Up to 71 quite quickly and that lead of 99 is looking a bit inadequate...

But better now as he pins Rahul lbw ...or does he ? Looked out ...but saved on review. All going India's way at the moment...

Winviz now has India as favourite Smile


Last edited by alfie on Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by king_carlos Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:35 am

That lead is evaporating quite quickly...

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Post by king_carlos Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:35 am

As I send that post Woakes gets Rahul out LBW though!

Review pending.

It would be Woakes wouldn't it.

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Post by king_carlos Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:36 am

Missing on review. Argh.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:37 am

Woakes very unfortunate on both counts. Top edge that could have easily found fine leg's hands, then a good LBW shout appears to be going down leg according to Hawk-Eye.

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Post by king_carlos Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:46 am

Rohit might have a weak away record but in this form I'd expect him to have a match defining innings across a 5 match series. If he can get in on this flat pitch then he could do some damage quite quickly I fear.

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Post by king_carlos Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:52 am

Oh Rory. Tougher chance but England need to take them.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:52 am

Poor from Burns, again.

Six drops in this test? That would embarrass a Minor Counties side.

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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:53 am

Duty281 wrote:Woakes very unfortunate on both counts. Top edge that could have easily found fine leg's hands, then a good LBW shout appears to be going down leg according to Hawk-Eye.

Umpire's have got a couple wrong in this match. India have used the review well to overturn ones like that...which really did look pretty good in real time.

That type of delivery targeting the pads might be the way to go though. Risk being it can also give away runs to leg...they've been picked off for a lot of singles this morning.

Danger here for England as they see that lead evaporating rapidly. Could easily get a bit over anxious and lose their discipline. India might be fairly comfortable right now but if they were to lose one or two wickets the pressure would go right back on them.

Impressed with Woakes this morning but less so Robinson. He's been down a bit on pace and perhaps the work load of four games is starting to tell...

Oh no ...Burns drops Rohit at slip. Not easy , but the near misses are mounting up . Getting a bad feeling about this.

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Post by king_carlos Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:01 pm

That England side that went to number 1 under Andy Flower was blessed with a lot of good catchers.

Strauss, Swann and Cook as slips. Collingwood was one of the best fielders I've ever seen in all positions. Anderson in his lither, younger days was terrific in that 3rd slip to gully region. Bell was a very good short leg as well as also being strong in that 3rd slip to gully region that Collingwood or Anderson more usually filled. Even Trott who was usually a boundary rider for England was a very good slip fielder with Warwickshire but just couldn't get a look in due to the aforementioned.

What England would give for 2 decent slip fielders in this side let alone 7!

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Post by Duty281 Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:02 pm

Fine opening hour for India, but England mustn't lose heart - they're still in the lead and they know how susceptible India are to collapse.

Woakes has bowled tremendously, Anderson no better than mediocre, Robinson very poor.

Might be a day for Overton or even Moeen to come to the fore.

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Post by king_carlos Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:05 pm

Jimmy's stats in the 2nd innings compared to 1st innings this year aren't too pretty. He's so spectacular in the 1st innings that he's still England's best bowler without a doubt (please don't shoot me) but he has bowled worse in the second dig.

It feels like a day when England will need the extra bowling options they lengthen the tail for to step up.

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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:12 pm

India bossed the first hour ...but at the same time had that catch been taken things would look rather different. They've been pretty solid most of the time and the ball hasn't done a lot but there have still been a couple of close things so it is too early to say they're cruising.

However they are getting very close to wiping out the deficit : and if they do that unscathed it will be a bit of a psychological boost for the rest of their bats.

England need somehow to get one or two in this session or I think India really will be in the "virtual" lead in the game...

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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:20 pm

king_carlos wrote:Jimmy's stats in the 2nd innings compared to 1st innings this year aren't too pretty. He's so spectacular in the 1st innings that he's still England's best bowler without a doubt (please don't shoot me) but he has bowled worse in the second dig.

It feels like a day when England will need the extra bowling options they lengthen the tail for to step up.

Comms discussing this too ! I reckon it is largely down to the ageing though still very fit bowler being a bit tired in second innings : he has usually bowled rather a lot in the first knock. Plus all too often the bats have failed and he's not had as much rest between innings. So he's generally a bit down on pace ; and of course the batting conditions are mostly better.

It's also not a huge sample size !

And I actually think he's bowled OK in this innings. Should have had one last night , beat the bat once or twice today without any joy.

Certainly someone needs to step up and make a break because it doesn't look as though these two bats are going to make any silly mistakes...

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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:26 pm

With regard to the slips : Surrey mob ? Does Pope never stand there for you or does he just not like the position?
He is such a fine fielder everywhere I'd have thought he could do a good job in the cordon...I mean it's nice that he is fast at point or cover but surely the slips are the priority?

Jimmy and a great review does the trick !

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:27 pm

It's a sample size of three summers now Alfie.

Averages 19 in the first innings and 117 in the second over that period.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:27 pm

Jimmy. Yahoo

Bringing down that second innings average. Guess the umpire thought the bat brushed the pad? I was for it straight away.

If England can prise out at least one more this morning they'll be feeling OK.

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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:30 pm

That is weird. Looked out live...Jonny was certain , so was Jimmy , Root didn't hesitate and the spike was huge...

But Rahul still appeared absolutely shocked .

Anyway he's gone and Maligned Anderson has a second innings scalp Smile

Was a great bit of bowling. Still minus-16/1

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:32 pm

A good example in the case that batsmen don’t always know when they have/haven’t hit it
One of the more silly tropes wheeled out by comms
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Post by king_carlos Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:36 pm

Jimmy in Tests since January 2019:

1st innings: 435.5-143-993-54, 54 wickets @ 19.64

2nd innings: 214.1-58-531-12 , 13 wickets @ 40.84

Decided to have a deeper dive on Jimmy in 1st innings vs 2nd innings and it's actually over the last 3 years rather than just 2021. Especially interesting as Jimmy is one of the best proponents of the wobble seam which I thought had been doing lots of damage for seamers in the 2nd innings.

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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:37 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:It's a sample size of three summers now Alfie.

Averages 19 in the first innings and 117 in the second over that period.

Thought it was 2 years : six wickets at 61 ? ie 6/366 , which translates to about 140 odd overs perhaps . Haven't checked the detail but that's not too many matches , is it ?

Sure it's a thing , but not perhaps as dramatic as you might think. And as I said , the fatigue factor is surely the main cause. Guess it is reasonable enough to let the younger ones step up in the second innings...

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Post by king_carlos Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:44 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:A good example in the case that batsmen don’t always know when they have/haven’t hit it
One of the more silly tropes wheeled out by comms

When the bat's close to the pad such as that I've always thought from personal experience that I'm not always certain whether I've hit it or not. When I'm throwing my bat outside the off stump or chasing balls down leg and feathering them to the keeper (both far more regular dismissals at my level) I always know whether I've hit it or not but if my bat hits my pad around the same time the ball passes my bat such as that then I genuinely have no idea sometimes.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:45 pm

alfie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:It's a sample size of three summers now Alfie.

Averages 19 in the first innings and 117 in the second over that period.

Thought it was 2 years : six wickets at 61 ? ie 6/366 , which translates to about 140 odd overs perhaps . Haven't checked the detail but that's not too many matches , is it ?

Sure it's a thing , but not perhaps as dramatic as you might think. And as I said , the fatigue factor is surely the main cause. Guess it is reasonable enough to let the younger ones step up in the second innings...

It was 114 in the second innings during the English summer.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:53 pm

Another dumb review, wasn't even in the right postcode. picard

But early encouragement for Moeen, and India may regret leaving out Ashwin.

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Post by king_carlos Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:01 pm

I'm very relieved that Ashwin isn't playing right now.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:02 pm

Forgot to say yesterday, but yet again this morning Warne is absolutely unlistenable. Genuinely just mute anytime he’s on comms, going from Karthik to him might be the biggest downgrade of the summer.
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Post by king_carlos Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:14 pm

Warnes's a bit like Vaughan as a commentator. Occasionally they have interesting insights as summarisers but when actually commentating they are incredibly tedious and tend to contradict themselves in the space of 15 minutes as they are always searching for a contrarian view point through their constant need to be the centre of attention.

Vaughan swinging from his gushing praise of India's aggression in the field after T2 to criticising their aggression in the field as being "all for show" after T3 was one of the most recent, glaring examples of him just shoving his finger in the air to check which way the breeze is blowing then throwing s**t in that direction.

By and large I'm glad that TMS has gradually moved away from it's rigid commentators chat during the over, summarisers chat in-between overs set-up but Vaughan is the exception that makes me really wish he was only allowed to open his gob during more limited windows that I could ignore more easily.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:22 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Forgot to say yesterday, but yet again this morning Warne is absolutely unlistenable. Genuinely just mute anytime he’s on comms, going from Karthik to him might be the biggest downgrade of the summer.

They employ Warne to make the others look better, the only reasonable explanation.

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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:38 pm

So India effectively 9/1 at lunch. Their session - and well batted clap

But the wicket kept England in the game. Moeen looked interesting in his brief appearance ...will they try and hit him off his game early after the resumption , I wonder ?

Risk for England of key bowlers getting tired and leaving themselves open later in the day : but they need to press hard here as getting one of these and Kohli quickly might open the gate ...remaining bats aren't in great form.

Yet another "big hour" coming up...

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Post by Duty281 Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:41 pm

It's a bigger session coming up for India than it is for England. If India have another good session and get to tea with, say, a 90 lead and only one or two down, England can recover from that with the new ball available early in the evening.

But if England have a good two hours with the ball, leave India with a lead of 80 and four or five down...the tourists aren't recovering from that.

Overton to resume.

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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:59 pm

Overton as first choice after lunch ? Hmm. Underused so far but still...

Woakes the other end , fair enough. Pujara started well today = but he's done himself some mischief here...resulting treatment break won't help the wretched over rate.


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Post by KP_fan Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:05 pm

alfie wrote:Overton as first choice after lunch ? Hmm.  Underused so far but still...

Woakes the other end , fair enough.   Pujara started well today = but he's done himself some mischief here...resulting treatment break won't help the wretched over rate.

A Human being got nearly decapitated at the ankle and you are worried about the over rate in that occurence
How.....inhuman England's Summer of Cricket 2021 - Page 6 1f600
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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:07 pm

Good fifty Rohit clap Doing what his team sorely needed ...had a little luck but by and large in control and is the main reason Winviz now has India 54% favourites...

England need something soon , I think.

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Post by KP_fan Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:12 pm

He needs to convert today
He owes it to his team that carried him thru dozens  of game on *potential*

He owes them a Daddy Inning & earn himself the right to go down as a good overseas player
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Post by Duty281 Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:14 pm

KP_fan wrote:
alfie wrote:Overton as first choice after lunch ? Hmm.  Underused so far but still...

Woakes the other end , fair enough.   Pujara started well today = but he's done himself some mischief here...resulting treatment break won't help the wretched over rate.

A Human being got nearly decapitated at the ankle and you are worried about the over rate in that occurence
How.....inhuman  England's Summer of Cricket 2021 - Page 6 1f600

He rolled his ankle, that's all, I've seen worse injuries on Gladiators.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:15 pm

Overton bowling a load of rubbish. Get him out of the attack.

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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:15 pm

KP_fan wrote:
alfie wrote:Overton as first choice after lunch ? Hmm.  Underused so far but still...

Woakes the other end , fair enough.   Pujara started well today = but he's done himself some mischief here...resulting treatment break won't help the wretched over rate.

A Human being got nearly decapitated at the ankle and you are worried about the over rate in that occurence
How.....inhuman  England's Summer of Cricket 2021 - Page 6 1f600

Ha... I wasn't worried about the over rate , KP_fan ... But a lot of people go on about it all the time so I just threw that in there...

Don't think Pujara was mortally wounded Smile

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Post by alfie Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:19 pm

Duty281 wrote:Overton bowling a load of rubbish. Get him out of the attack.

Yes not the one I'd have turned to after lunch. Trouble is Robinson has been a bit "off" too and Woakes and Anderson can't bowl all day...

Moeen will have to do something in this innings or they're going to have big problems. Rohit looking very secure now and Pujara the best he's looked all series.

Potential for India to bat themselves into a pretty handy position today...

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Post by KP_fan Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:22 pm

Duty281 wrote:Overton bowling a load of rubbish. Get him out of the attack.

Not his fault...he is bowling at his level...80ish mph medium pace on a pitch that has absolutely flattened
Eng's missing an express pacer ...and ain't bowling Moeen enuf

Root bears a worried look...and when he is worried, he starts bowling himself
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