World T20 discussion thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

This is fast approaching in the UAE, and squads are beginning to be announced. England have announced theirs this morning

England's preliminary squad for the World T20;

Jason Roy
Jos Buttler
Dawid Malan
Jonny Bairstow
Liam Livingstone
Eoin Morgan
Sam Billings
Moeen Ali
Sam Curran
Chris Woakes
David Willey
Adil Rashid
Mark Wood
Chris Jordan
Tymal Mills

Reserves: James Vince, Liam Dawson, Tom Curran

Looks a solid squad, albeit the team has taken a hit in recent months with Archer's injury and then Stokes's withdrawal from international duty.
Billings in as the main batting backup, makes sense to me. He's played well in limited opportunity the past few summers.
I am a touch surprised both Woakes and Willey are in the squad...seems like they both do the same role to me?
Seems harsh, but happy no Tom Curran. He's not played well enough to be included.
I see some "why no Parkinson?" and it does seem a tad weird he isn't in reserve...but ultimately in T20 can you afford to carry someone like him, who while is a good bowler, is a liability in the field and offers absolutely nothing with the bat. I can see why Dawson is the chosen reserve over him, with those considerations.

I think the likely XI is;

Roy
Buttler
Malan
Bairstow
Livingstone
Morgan
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Mills

The real selection choices in there are between Woakes/Jordan, and Moeen/Sam Curran. Rest looks fairly set in stone to me

[AlciG]

Easy chase

[Duty281]

Very good chase from South Africa, remained composed after that early dismissal. Unfortunately for them the biggest story is likely to be about de Kock, who may not feature again in this World Cup or, indeed, for South Africa.

West Indies bowling is very weak and underpowered. Two losses from two - they essentially need to win all their remaining games to have a chance of making the semi-finals.

Pakistan v New Zealand up next. Pakistan have the advantage of fielding first. Kiwis also rocked by the news that Lockie Ferguson is out of the tournament with injury, meaning their slim hopes retreat ever further.

[alfie]

Pretty clinical chase by SA. Had it in hand all the way.

Safe to say West Indies won't be defending their title. As Duty says their bowling is rather insipid - only Hosein ever really looks like taking a wicket - and their batting is a bit one dimensional. Not sure they will win a game let alone three.

SA would miss de Kock as they do have a long tail. Their bowling is pretty handy so they may be in the fight yet. And Markram was rather impressive in that exhibition of power hitting.

Will be interesting to see if NZ can overcome the bat first hoodoo. With Pakistan , you never quite know : but if they win this you can just about ink them in for the knock outs...

[alfie]

Very good chase from South Africa, remained composed after that early dismissal. Unfortunately for them the biggest story is likely to be about de Kock, who may not feature again in this World Cup or, indeed, for South Africa.

West Indies bowling is very weak and underpowered. Two losses from two - they essentially need to win all their remaining games to have a chance of making the semi-finals.

Pakistan v New Zealand up next. Pakistan have the advantage of fielding first. Kiwis also rocked by the news that Lockie Ferguson is out of the tournament with injury, meaning their slim hopes retreat ever further.

A pity ; but Milne isn't a bad replacement for their squad.

[Duty281]

Decent enough PP for NZ - 42/1. Need a total of over 160 to have a realistic chance, I think.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

What a massive letdown from the West Indies - when you go with a batting heavy lineup like they have, you can't afford to really have an "anchor" innings, let alone possibly the worst knock in the history of T20is - I know I'm banging on about it, but that innings from Simmons has essentially single handedly lost them that game.
Now they're requiring snookers to qualify - not out of the question, with Bangladesh/Sri Lanka in the group they could nab games off the likes of England/Australia/SA...whereas in the other group it's hard to see Scotland/Namibia doing the same. Question is, will WI even beat them!

NZ off to a typically NZ quiet start of 42-1 off the powerplay. Surprised Mitchell is opening!
The loss of Lockie Ferguson is not only a great shame for them, but for the tournament as a whole. He's been superb in recent months

[Soul Requiem]

The West Indies batting line up looks a bit one dimensional and if you're going to persist with Gayle he has to open otherwise you gain nothing. He's no longer able to go from ball one which then puts pressure on Russell, Hetmeyer and Pollard who are all batting too low down the order. Bin off Simmons, open with Gayle and Lewis, Pooran at three then you've got your 4, 5 and 6 in any particular order who can all clear the rope with ease. Hetmeyer coming in at seven is just odd.

[Soul Requiem]

This is a very average New Zealand team, they don't have a single batsman who can really hurt teams.

[Duty281]

Thought Pakistan would be comfortable here, but 69/4 in pursuit of 135 is a fragile position to be in.

[Duty281]

Good push from the middle-order gets Pakistan over the line. Asif Ali with some clean sixes, and Shoaib Malik is a fine runner for someone who is 40 (ish).

New Zealand and India's next games are against each other, it'll be another battle for survival similar to West Indies/South Africa today. I (foolishly!) wrote Pakistan off, but they've got at least one foot in the semi-finals with two wins out of two and they still have to play Namibia and Scotland.

[msp83]

Have been following the tournament off and on as it is a World Cup. Too many disappointments off the field already.
There were stupid clowns in India who went after Mohammed Shami after India's loss to Pakistan to start with. Then Quinton de Kock...
Hope QdK would at the very least, give an explanation. If he's in the Pat Simcox kind of league, I would feel very uncomfortable to have him in the IPL and other tournaments, and he has been one of my most favorite cricketers... Hope de Kock's decision is well informed by the dark and despicable history of his country, and the kind of privileges that the likes of him were born into, because of that history and all that it stood for.

[Duty281]

de Kock doesn't need to give an explanation for his refusal, any more than other cricketers/sportspeople who don't take the knee need to.

In any case, as Carlos alluded to, if you mandate a gesture to be performed then that gesture loses any power and significance.

[Galted]

Have been following the tournament off and on as it is a World Cup. Too many disappointments off the field already.
There were stupid clowns in India who went after Mohammed Shami after India's loss to Pakistan to start with. Then Quinton de Kock...
Hope QdK would at the very least, give an explanation. If he's in the Pat Simcox kind of league, I would feel very uncomfortable to have him in the IPL and other tournaments, and he has been one of my most favorite cricketers... Hope de Kock's decision is well informed by the dark and despicable history of his country, and the kind of privileges that the likes of him were born into, because of that history and all that it stood for.

What a pompous load of cliché.

[Duty281]

England v Bangladesh tomorrow. Surprisingly, this is the first ever T20 meeting between the sides. I know the sides don't tour each other that often, but I'd have thought they'd have met at least once in the six previous T20 World Cups there have been.

If England win they've got one foot in the semi-finals. Bangladesh need to win otherwise they're facing the exit door. The bookmakers are almost writing Bangladesh off; I certainly won't be as England have been known to fail 'trial by spin' before! England expected to be unchanged.

[king_carlos]

Day game as well so the dew wont be a factor in the second innings. That's significant as were it a D/N and England won the toss and inevitably bowled first I would pretty much write off Bangladesh (a side I do rate in parts) due to the effect the dew could have on their spinners.

I expect England will be unchanged but for Wood coming back in if fit. Personally I'd prefer a bowling heavy approach with Mo up the order and the extra seamer. Were Dawson in the squad I'd say an extra spinner. Either way I'd prefer the extra bowler given England's batting strength.

I adore Mo as a cricketer, especially in T20s, but his bowling is quite match-up and conditions dependent. When those suit he can win games with his bowling (his PP bowling vs Windies with good match-ups was terrific and deserved his MOM award) but he can get targeted like many finger spinners in T20s. I thought Chennai used him perfectly in that he tended to bowl multiple overs (i.e. 3 or 4) when suited or not bowl at all. That's how Mo is ideally utilised in T20s I think. As a top order batsman and 6th bowler, rather than a lower middle order batsman and 5th bowler. He's good at the latter but fantastic at the former.

It's still a very good albeit imperfect T20 side either way. Mo up the order doesn't fix the issues that Jof, Stokes and Curran's absence create. I just think it's slightly stronger with that extra bowling option.

[alfie]

That's Pakistan nailed on for the semis then.  Even they on one of their "off" days won't lose to Scotland or Namibia , so unless their neighbours can surprise and upset them I'd say they will go through top with five wins. Leaves India to make sure they can beat NZ and Afghanistan for the other spot.

Other group will likely remain unclear throughout as all the teams seem capable of winning any single match (maybe not West Indies ; who as Soul says are all over the place with their batting - and don't look much with the ball either). England should be too good for Bangladesh but have tripped on banana skins before. Day game so at least they can forget about the dew factor. For other games it seems whoever bats first in day night matches is doomed unless it is a total mismatch so upsets could be rife.

At least a few more runs in some of these games but overall scoring is still much lower than expected pre-tournament. Think I'd want England to persist with the full list of batsmen for that reason , at least for now.

I still don't exactly love t20 ; but it has its moments. That Pakistan chase was balanced for a long time , and had just about tipped NZ's way : and in the blink of an eye Asif manages to connect with two big hits off Southee (he couldn't lay a bat on the rest of the over , aside from wearing one in the head) and suddenly the game is essentially all Pakistan. Talk about quick twists .Ben Stokes might be familiar... game never over , etc...

[Old Man]

Have been following the tournament off and on as it is a World Cup. Too many disappointments off the field already.
There were stupid clowns in India who went after Mohammed Shami after India's loss to Pakistan to start with. Then Quinton de Kock...
Hope QdK would at the very least, give an explanation. If he's in the Pat Simcox kind of league, I would feel very uncomfortable to have him in the IPL and other tournaments, and he has been one of my most favorite cricketers... Hope de Kock's decision is well informed by the dark and despicable history of his country, and the kind of privileges that the likes of him were born into, because of that history and all that it stood for.

It has sparked plenty of debate seeing as it’s not the first time de Kock has taken this stance, with Johannesburg journalist Lungani Zama explaining to this knowledge why this has again occurred.

“‘Quinny’ just took umbrage at the fact there was an instruction given with no choice for players,” The Guardian writer said on SEN Breakfast.

“Given the amount of time South Africa have had to take a definitive, collective stance on it and then they’ve almost made up the rule in the middle of a tournament ahead of a must-win game.

“The previous board had said to them that every player is allowed to express themselves in whichever way they deem fit. To suddenly change that on the eve of such an important match…

“I’ll qualify it by saying Quinton de Kock, if you’re asking me if he’s racist or against Black Lives Matter, I’ll unequivocally say no because I know him personally.

“I know the work that he’s done to improve the lives and experiences of black players and black people around him for years and years, long before Black Lives Matter was a trend on social media.”

Pressed further to explain why de Kock made himself unavailable for his country, Zama feels the “token gesture” and “watered down” nature of what has become of acknowledging BLM is prevalent in the 28-year-old’s decision.

“I think because their constitutional rights were taken away from them, it was an instruction from the boss when it hadn’t been previously discussed,” he added.

“Added to that, from my conversations with him before, he sees it as a token gesture which has been watered down to almost mean nothing. It’s something that you have to do to be seen to be doing the right thing.

“His preference is to actually do the right thing, which he does in the way that he lives, the way that he interacts, and the way that he treats people of all races.

“It’s the token gesture for him that’s the issue.”

Zama expects that this perhaps could be the end of de Kock’s time as a South African cricketer, tipping him to become a “T20 mercenary” by playing around the world.

“It is very, very possible that he becomes a T20 mercenary on the back of this because the initial uproar has been so severe and so sustained that he’s become the scapegoat and the face of resistance, if you will, for those who are unfortunately not in the know,” Zama said.

“Because he hasn’t taken a knee and because he hasn’t even taken his place in the match on the back of being told to take a knee, therefore he’s against the establishment and therefore he must be made an example of.

“So it’s quite likely that he becomes a T20 mercenary playing around the world collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars and never plays for South Africa again.”

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

That's Pakistan nailed on for the semis then.  Even they on one of their "off" days won't lose to Scotland or Namibia , so unless their neighbours can surprise and upset them I'd say they will go through top with five wins. Leaves India to make sure they can beat NZ and Afghanistan for the other spot.

Other group will likely remain unclear throughout as all the teams seem capable of winning any single match (maybe not West Indies ; who as Soul says are all over the place with their batting - and don't look much with the ball either). England should be too good for Bangladesh but have tripped on banana skins before. Day game so at least they can forget about the dew factor. For other games it seems whoever bats first in day night matches is doomed unless it is a total mismatch so upsets could be rife.

At least a few more runs in some of these games but overall scoring is still much lower than expected pre-tournament. Think I'd want England to persist with the full list of batsmen for that reason , at least for now.

I still don't exactly love t20 ; but it has its moments. That Pakistan chase was balanced for a long time , and had just about tipped NZ's way : and in the blink of an eye Asif manages to connect with two big hits off Southee (he couldn't lay a bat on the rest of the over , aside from wearing one in the head) and suddenly the game is essentially all Pakistan. Talk about quick twists .Ben Stokes might be familiar... game never over , etc...

I wouldn't say nailed on for Pakistan, in fact I do quite fancy the Afghans to beat them and there is a scenario where India/Afg/Pak all have one loss each and it comes down to NRR - but it's looking very likely (albeit, not beyond Pakistan to lose to Scotland/Namibia either!).
New Zealand look to me to have got a fairly rough stick draw wise with the sub continental full member nations in their group - I'd fancy them to go better against Aus/SA etc...but in this group, I think they might lose all 3 games against Pak/Ind/Afg

Tough game for England today - Bangladesh do seem to lurk from the sublime to the ridiculous (within innings, let alone games!) but I can't see them being as poorly skippered today as they were against SL (surely lessons learnt), and as we know with England, they do love a collapse to spin!

[Pal Joey]

Yeah, C... I much prefer a doer to a signaller.

Surely he would be able to claim that he was prevented from going about his profession (playing in this T20 WC) and prevented or denied from earning his rightful remuneration. They should have sorted this all out before the matches started and not a few games into it.

I hope they get things agreed upon before the Ashes begin too.

We (the viewing and/or paying public) shouldn't be deprived of certain players midway through a match or series because of someone's personal belief... when they haven't committed any serious breach of the player's code of conduct and especially when someone's been actively engaged and involved in trying to improve the lives and experiences of other less privileged or disadvantaged people, as Quinton has done.

[Old Man]

Personally I believe Quinton's stance against the taking a knee is aimed against the CSA board.

It has been in a mess for quite some time now, mismanagement, corruption and a number of board changes.

[Duty281]

Bangladesh choosing to bat first. England (unchanged) would have probably chose to field anyway.

On it being a day game - I note all of Bangladesh's five games in this Super 12 section are during the day.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Wood still unavailable due to a knock - a blow in this tournament, and not exactly boding great for the winter...

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Super Mo! Two in two balls, Bangladesh 15-2 off 3 overs with Mushfiqur and Shakib at the crease early. Fair to say, a lot relies on these two!

[alfie]

Moeen again irresistible to aggressive top order bats and again luring them to destruction...

Great start for England apart from a couple of early boundaries. Woakes bowling well too.

Bangladesh with their two most reliable bats in now but they need to regroup at 18/2 off four...

[alfie]

Wood still unavailable due to a knock - a blow in this tournament, and not exactly boding great for the winter...

Fast bowler injuries before an Ashes Series

Hopefully minor and they're just not rushing him back. Frankly reckon if there is any real concern I'd be happy to see him exit this event and bring Topley into the squad. Mills had a good start ; Curran and Willey are spare ; and I'm not sure pace is going to be the main weapon in most of these matches.

[Duty281]

Easy street again for England with Shakib out cheaply. Nice take from Rashid.

The T20 fielding has, so far, been the opposite of England's test fielding!

[Soul Requiem]

Fielding in white ball cricket is better than in test cricket but it's also easier especially in T20. You need to concentrate for 120 balls and every fielder is aware that the ball could be coming in there direction sooner rather than later, in tests you can be standing around for overs at a time without doing anything.

Whilst he is a fabulous fielder, can't help but think that Chris Jordan is a real weak link in this England side.

[alfie]

Also in t20 the catches are mainly up and under rather than flying into slips...

But England's catching here has indeed been excellent so far. Hope it continues as fielding can certainly have a big influence on the close games in this format - as we saw in Sri Lanka v Bangladesh the other day.

[alfie]

Like Soul , I am not totally convinced about Jordan's bowling value here. And now Mills has just gone for eleven so I really wouldn't mind seeing an exploratory over from Livingstone , with a view to having options for the later overs...

[alfie]

Ah , good . Morgan is listening to me

[guildfordbat]

Wood still unavailable due to a knock - a blow in this tournament, and not exactly boding great for the winter...

Fast bowler injuries before an Ashes Series

Hopefully minor and they're just not rushing him back. Frankly reckon if there is any real concern I'd be happy to see him exit this event and bring Topley into the squad. Mills had a good start ; Curran and Willey are spare ; and I'm not sure pace is going to be the main weapon in most of these matches.

Topley would hurt his back getting off the bus.

[alfie]

Ha ! Good choice , good bowling , good review

[Soul Requiem]

Like Soul , I am not totally convinced about Jordan's bowling value here. And now Mills has just gone for eleven so I really wouldn't mind seeing an exploratory over from Livingstone , with a view to having options for the later overs...

This captaincy malarkey is easy.

[guildfordbat]

Ah , good .  Morgan is listening to me

I'm sure he always is, Alfie.

Good call anyway.

[alfie]

Wood still unavailable due to a knock - a blow in this tournament, and not exactly boding great for the winter...

Fast bowler injuries before an Ashes Series

Hopefully minor and they're just not rushing him back. Frankly reckon if there is any real concern I'd be happy to see him exit this event and bring Topley into the squad. Mills had a good start ; Curran and Willey are spare ; and I'm not sure pace is going to be the main weapon in most of these matches.

Topley would hurt his back getting off the bus.

[Soul Requiem]

Not selecting Dawson is looking the long call right now.

[alfie]

Oh dear ! That was a bit of a mess...

Fumbles from Mills ; but a good recovery and some dozy running sees a run out that Bangladesh really didn't need. Nearly another one next ball too...Roy wasn't quite quick enough with the throw.

And again ! Kamikaze running...nearly.

As Freddie Trueman would have said : I just don't know what's going off out there...

[guildfordbat]

Fielding in white ball cricket is better than in test cricket but it's also easier especially in T20. You need to concentrate for 120 balls and every fielder is aware that the ball could be coming in there direction sooner rather than later, in tests you can be standing around for overs at a time without doing anything.

Whilst he is a fabulous fielder, can't help but think that Chris Jordan is a real weak link in this England side.

Surrey have signed Jordan on a 3 year contract from the start of next season. Seems a main role will be to captain the side in t20 games. Attempting to justify the length of the contract and explain Jordan's likely availability, Alec Stewart said (albeit not so blatantly) at a recent members' forum meeting that he expects Jordan to be binned by England after the 2022 World Cup. That's probably right - if it doesn't come even sooner - although I'm still not convinced it merits the signing.

[guildfordbat]

15 overs gone and, echoing a concern for them made by Carlos after Bangladesh's opener against Sri Lanka, not a single six.

[eirebilly]

Although I am glad England are winning, I am concerned that they are not really being tested at all.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Wood still unavailable due to a knock - a blow in this tournament, and not exactly boding great for the winter...

Fast bowler injuries before an Ashes Series

Hopefully minor and they're just not rushing him back. Frankly reckon if there is any real concern I'd be happy to see him exit this event and bring Topley into the squad. Mills had a good start ; Curran and Willey are spare ; and I'm not sure pace is going to be the main weapon in most of these matches.

If Wood is out, Dawson should come in 100% - fairly ridiculous he didn't when Sam Curran got hurt. Don't need another seamer with Willey and T Curran riding the pine at the moment

[alfie]

Wood still unavailable due to a knock - a blow in this tournament, and not exactly boding great for the winter...

Fast bowler injuries before an Ashes Series

Hopefully minor and they're just not rushing him back. Frankly reckon if there is any real concern I'd be happy to see him exit this event and bring Topley into the squad. Mills had a good start ; Curran and Willey are spare ; and I'm not sure pace is going to be the main weapon in most of these matches.

If Wood is out, Dawson should come in 100% - fairly ridiculous he didn't when Sam Curran got hurt. Don't need another seamer with Willey and T Curran riding the pine at the moment

Of course : I'd momentarily forgotten Dawson was among the reserves. Agree that would be the smart move.

[alfie]

Although I am glad England are winning, I am concerned that they are not really being tested at all.

Batsmen might yet get tested. The way the England spinners are performing I think Bangladesh have one or two who may enjoy bowling on this later.

Don't think they will have a lot to defend though. 98/7 as Mills gets a wicket...Hasan getting a bit too cute there and rather gifting his scalp.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

98-7, Mills gets Mahedi - England well on top here, albeit not a straight forward chase as there is definitely something in the pitch for the Bangladeshi spinners

[Soul Requiem]

15 overs gone and, echoing a concern for them made by Carlos after Bangladesh's opener against Sri Lanka, not a single six.

Possibly not fair to compare the Bangladesh batting line up with England's but here goes anyway;

The top seven for Bangladesh have strike rates ranging from 108 (Naim) to 127 (Das)
The top seven for England have strike rates ranging from 135 (Moeen) to 165 (Livingstone*)

*only nine matches so a possible outlier.

[eirebilly]

Although I am glad England are winning, I am concerned that they are not really being tested at all.

Batsmen might yet get tested. The way the England spinners are performing I think Bangladesh have one or two who may enjoy bowling on this later.

Don't think they will have a lot to defend though.  98/7 as Mills gets a wicket...Hasan getting a bit too cute there and rather gifting his scalp.

I truly hope so, I would not like England to go into a big match not fully tested.

[eirebilly]

A couple of 6's

[alfie]

Bit of carnage in Rashid's last over...couple of welcome sixes for Bangladesh.
Expensive today , in context: can't get 4/2 every week

Mills to bowl the last . He came back well from a rather loose first over. Flirting with the "wide" line a bit here...think he got away with one then !

[Duty281]

Decent 'death overs' finish from Bangladesh, though Mills finished off nicely.

Shakib needs four/five wickets if Bangladesh are to rescue this.

[alfie]

Nurul given out caught behind on review. Not sure about that ? Seemed to be some sort of spike but it didn't look quite right...

No matter. And Mills finishes with three as he bowls Mustafizur at the end. All done for 124 which England really ought to chase down.

Good all round bowling effort - again. Livingstone's performance a nice bonus with an eye to future games.

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