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World T20 discussion thread

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 09 Sep 2021, 11:18 am

First topic message reminder :

This is fast approaching in the UAE, and squads are beginning to be announced. England have announced theirs this morning

England's preliminary squad for the World T20;

Jason Roy
Jos Buttler
Dawid Malan
Jonny Bairstow
Liam Livingstone
Eoin Morgan
Sam Billings
Moeen Ali
Sam Curran
Chris Woakes
David Willey
Adil Rashid
Mark Wood
Chris Jordan
Tymal Mills

Reserves: James Vince, Liam Dawson, Tom Curran

Looks a solid squad, albeit the team has taken a hit in recent months with Archer's injury and then Stokes's withdrawal from international duty.
Billings in as the main batting backup, makes sense to me. He's played well in limited opportunity the past few summers.
I am a touch surprised both Woakes and Willey are in the squad...seems like they both do the same role to me?
Seems harsh, but happy no Tom Curran. He's not played well enough to be included.
I see some "why no Parkinson?" and it does seem a tad weird he isn't in reserve...but ultimately in T20 can you afford to carry someone like him, who while is a good bowler, is a liability in the field and offers absolutely nothing with the bat. I can see why Dawson is the chosen reserve over him, with those considerations.

I think the likely XI is;

Roy
Buttler
Malan
Bairstow
Livingstone
Morgan
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Mills

The real selection choices in there are between Woakes/Jordan, and Moeen/Sam Curran. Rest looks fairly set in stone to me
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Post by eirebilly Mon 01 Nov 2021, 3:58 pm

To be run out in the first over of a chase is just... well... Unacceptable. That is very poor from Sri Lanka
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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 01 Nov 2021, 3:58 pm

The Sri Lankan spinners conceded just 34 runs from their 8 overs, the seamers conceded 128 runs off 12 overs. Ouch.

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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 3:59 pm

What a start ! The Morgan/Buttler combination keeps up the good work and Sri Lanka have thrown away a wicket in the first over.

Brilliant bit of fielding from the skipper ; but that was not smart batting.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 01 Nov 2021, 3:59 pm

A take in front of the stumps from the keeper meaning a run out, just for the returning MFC!
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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 4:03 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:The Sri Lankan spinners conceded just 34 runs from their 8 overs, the seamers conceded 128 runs off 12 overs. Ouch.

Quite the contrast , eh ? Not surprised as their relative strength is rather disproportionate generally ; but highlighted tonight.

Moeen opening for England and I suspect he , Rashid and Livingstone might all be doing a bit of work in this innings.

The dew might complicate things a bit .

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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 4:12 pm

Short life though a merry one for Asalanka...

Important wicket for Rashid. Bowling - and fielding - is likely to get rather tricky as the evening wears on (looks as if the dew is earlier and heavier tonight ?) so early wickets are priceless .

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 01 Nov 2021, 4:13 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:A take in front of the stumps from the keeper meaning a run out, just for the returning MFC!

See what you did there. Laugh

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Post by Duty281 Mon 01 Nov 2021, 4:23 pm

Why Sri Lanka didn't add another spinner is baffling. 40 runs in the PowerPlay - not bad, but losing three wickets is. England should be alright from here.

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Post by eirebilly Mon 01 Nov 2021, 4:26 pm

Steady scoring will keep Sri Lanka in this game. They do not have the firepower to match England's last 10.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 01 Nov 2021, 4:30 pm

Well we talked that Sir Chris drop up Guildford Sad
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Post by eirebilly Mon 01 Nov 2021, 4:35 pm

Jordan gets another wicket. He is coming in to some form.
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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 4:36 pm

I like what Morgan is doing here. Use Rashid while the ball isn't quite a cake of soap - and the other spinners as well.
Will not be fun for the seamers later but if enough wickets are taken it may not matter.

Olly will not be happy that Sir Chris has disproved his contention that he never drops a catch Smile

Looked like a sitter. But I suspect it's a bit slippery already.

Jordan pins Avishka ! That's handy ...Sri Lanka running short of batting for the sort of charge they're going to need...

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Post by Galted Mon 01 Nov 2021, 4:39 pm

JDizzle wrote:
Luckily England have Jos - and he can cover up a lot! I don’t think it’s even close he’s England’s greatest ever white ball player anymore.

England's greatest ever English white ball player at any rate.
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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 4:54 pm

Woakes hasn't been having his best night: but a very good catch by Jason Roy will have improved his mood.

Rajapaske was looking dangerous so England will be glad to have that break. RRR not out of control for Sri Lanka yet ; but they are running out of wickets. Going to need this partnership to work a minor miracle...

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Post by Duty281 Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:10 pm

Mills off. Could be a tournament ending injury. England have a good few days off after this one, hopefully Wood will recover in time.

61 off 36, only five wickets left. Not quite put to bed yet, it's still in range for Sri Lanka.

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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:10 pm

Mills joins the England Fast Bowlers Injury List...fortunately they have bowling options.

63 needed off 39 balls. Think England just might need more wickets to make this safe.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:14 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Well we talked that Sir Chris drop up Guildford Sad

Again - see what you did there. Whistle Laugh

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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:14 pm

Ten off that Livingstone over.

51 off five far from impossible. Suspect England will definately need wickets.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:17 pm

England without a doubt need wickets. Hasaranga is a really good hitter coming in at 7 for Sri Lanka.

10 RPO with Mills injured and the ball skidding on isn't that much against good hitters.

They need to break the partnership and clearly Morgan thinks so too as he's going back to Jordan. Mo will need to bowl at the death.

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Post by eirebilly Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:17 pm

England struggling now.
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Post by guildfordbat Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:20 pm

Duty281 wrote:Mills off. Could be a tournament ending injury. England have a good few days off after this one, hopefully Wood will recover in time.

61 off 36, only five wickets left. Not quite put to bed yet, it's still in range for Sri Lanka.

Agree with Sky comm (? Doull) that I wouldn't have used Woakes to complete Mills' over. Even though Woakes hasn't been at his best, I would have liked to retain him having the option to bowl a full 4 overs.

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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:25 pm

Sri Lanka slight favourite now. But a wicket would change things.

Livingstone does the trick !  Roy/Billings boundary catch ...neat work clap

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:26 pm

Out. Mrs Bat with no doubts. Wink

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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:28 pm

Still tight. 34 off three ?

Up to Jordan , Woakes - and Moeen : who doesn't usually feature at the death !

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Post by king_carlos Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:30 pm

Very important wicket there. Hasaranga is really good at finding the boundary.

I must say that Billings for Mills is a pretty handy fielding sub. Billings is absolute lightning as a runner, has great hands and very accurate arm. I rate Mills very highly as a death bowler but his stiff back doesn't make him the best fielder. I often think that sub fielders should have to be a pace bowler coming on if one goes off, a batsman for a batsman, etc. Sometimes feels a touch unfair when a player goes off and a side sends the best fielder in their bus stop out. With no rules against it all sides do the same of course.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:30 pm

alfie wrote:Still tight. 34 off three ?

Up to Jordan , Woakes - and Moeen : who doesn't usually feature at the death !

Yeah, I would probably have used Moeen to complete Mills' over.

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Post by Duty281 Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:31 pm

Was a very good bit of fielding to turn the game back in England's favour...now Shanaka has got confused and it's another dozy run-out.

Game sealed for England. Four from four. South Africa in five days, then the semi-final v NZ/Afghanistan.

No stopping England this year.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:32 pm

Shanuka run out by Buttler. England's to lose now with two new batsman out there.

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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:33 pm

Aha ! Buttler can do no wrong tonight ... Throws the stumps down and does for Shanaka !

Was very good couple of balls from Jordan , by the way , that pressured the batsman into that injudicious attempt to steal a run. I think this over has done the job.

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Post by eirebilly Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:33 pm

Some fightback from England after momentum was definitely in Sri Lanka's favour.

England the first team to be fully penciled in as semi finalists Very Happy
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Post by king_carlos Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:36 pm

Cracking over from Jordan. He's finding some form and playing a vital role in these conditions.

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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:37 pm

Jordan finishes with another wicket clap

Game over ? Not quite : 30 off two is still possible.

But with eight down it doesn't look a good bet. Moeen with the nineteenth...

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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:39 pm

...and Moeen with the ninth wicket !

That's why Woakes finished Mills' over , eh ? Morgan Masterplan

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Post by Duty281 Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:41 pm

No quibbling about MOTM, surely? Buttler all day long for a match-winning innings.

Was good for England to come through this. It was a test, unlike the first three games.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:47 pm

4 from 4 with that NRR basically guarantees England first place in group 1.

Which means they will likely play NZ or Afghanistan in the semis. I think I'd actually be less nervous about playing NZ than Afghanistan there. I think England's batsman would take a liking to the NZ seam attack and their spinners aren't the most threatening. Afghanistan's spinners could trouble several of England's batsman though.

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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:47 pm

Yes Buttler certainly MoTM this time ! And his innings made this possible.

But with the difficulty of bowling in all this dew , and a spirited Sri Lankan chase , the crucial factor in the end was that England have shown every other team how to field and catch : they've been brilliant in all games ; but it was key in that last half hour.

Think we can say they've made the semis now - forget about mathematical possibilities.

Good one to win batting first.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:49 pm

Duty281 wrote:No quibbling about MOTM, surely? Buttler all day long for a match-winning innings.

Was good for England to come through this. It was a test, unlike the first three games.

Yep, has to be Jos. First England mens player to score a century in all three formats as well. Brilliant innings and achievement.

Buttler being in this sort of form is an enormous boost for England when they are missing key players.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:53 pm

alfie wrote:...and Moeen with the ninth wicket !

That's why Woakes finished Mills' over , eh ? Morgan Masterplan

Maybe so. Smile I wouldn't have been so comfortable though had Sri Lanka been only 5 down at the start of the 19th.

Anyway, handy bowling and brilliant fielding from England - Woakes' drop aside and, tbf, with hindsight if he was ever going to put one down, today was the day to do it! The Roy / Billings combo was top notch - Roy did fantastically well to control his lob to Billings when he was diving at full pelt!

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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:54 pm

king_carlos wrote:4 from 4 with that NRR basically guarantees England first place in group 1.

Which means they will likely play NZ or Afghanistan in the semis. I think I'd actually be less nervous about playing NZ than Afghanistan there. I think England's batsman would take a liking to the NZ seam attack and their spinners aren't the most threatening. Afghanistan's spinners could trouble several of England's batsman though.

Maybe. The main thing that troubles me is that , as shown again tonight , the toss is a huge factor in these night games. Always can be a factor in cricket , of course ; but it is a little unfortunate that it seems to be making such a pronounced difference at this tournament.

Bit of sympathy for Sri Lanka , by the way. They've played pretty well and lost a couple of times now - with a bit of luck they might have still been in the mix. I do think they made a big mistake tonight at selection though : a third spinner would surely gave given England more to think about.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:57 pm

PS I'm having an evening off from MotM posts. No quibbling this time for sure!

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:57 pm

It's a cliche, but England will almost take more from that win than from their first three games.

Tricky conditions with the dew, made much worse by needing to bowl 3 overs of Livingstone/Mo in the last six, and still pulled it off reasonably comfortably in the end (albeit it was squeaky bum time just before Hasaranga got out). England will be well chuffed with that, and so they should.

Obviously Buttler was the star of the show, chipping in with a run out for good measure (he also does well for the first wicket, his positioning was spot on). But a real team effort with the ball, led by the excellent Rashid and Jordan. And aside from the Woakes drop, another really good performance in the field, with some very good boundary catches accounting for SL's best two batsmen on the night.

Shout out to Morgan's captaincy, again. Marshalled his resources superbly throughout. Getting through the spin overs as early as possible obviously the right tactic, before Mills's injury threw a serious spanner in the plan. Like others, I thought they should have tried to give Mo the end of that over, but obviously Morgan knows better than me Very Happy. Probably the idea was that England were only a wicket away from exposing the tail, so better to keep Mo back for the lower order, and squeeze the run rate as much as possible beforehand. Seemed a bit risky, but it worked.

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Post by alfie Mon 01 Nov 2021, 5:59 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:...and Moeen with the ninth wicket !

That's why Woakes finished Mills' over , eh ? Morgan Masterplan

Maybe so. Smile I wouldn't have been so comfortable though had Sri Lanka been only 5 down at the start of the 19th.

Anyway, handy bowling and brilliant fielding from England - Woakes' drop aside and, tbf, with hindsight if he was ever going to put one down, today was the day to do it! The Roy / Billings combo was top notch - Roy did fantastically well to control his lob to Billings when he was diving at full pelt!

But that's why Morgan is skipper , right ? Usually picks the right option.

Have to point out that if they'd been only five down at the start of the nineteenth it probably wouldn't have mattered who was bowling Smile

If they keep fielding as well as this it gives them a big advantage over just about any other side quite apart from bat and ball.


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Post by Mad for Chelsea Mon 01 Nov 2021, 6:08 pm

guildfordbat wrote:PS I'm having an evening off from MotM posts. No quibbling this time for sure!

Weirdly cricinfo's smart stats system has Hasaranga as their MVP. Hmmm.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Mon 01 Nov 2021, 6:12 pm

Also an interesting footnote from Buttler there about the decision to bowl Woakes rather than Moeen for those three balls. Seems to say that the fact they were bowling to the short leg side boundary (for the right-handers) played quite a significant part. Livingstone's last two overs and Mo's 19th all bowled from the longer side of course. Shows a good deal of level-headedness under pressure.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 01 Nov 2021, 6:15 pm

alfie wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:...and Moeen with the ninth wicket !

That's why Woakes finished Mills' over , eh ? Morgan Masterplan

Maybe so. Smile I wouldn't have been so comfortable though had Sri Lanka been only 5 down at the start of the 19th.

Anyway, handy bowling and brilliant fielding from England - Woakes' drop aside and, tbf, with hindsight if he was ever going to put one down, today was the day to do it! The Roy / Billings combo was top notch - Roy did fantastically well to control his lob to Billings when he was diving at full pelt!

But that's why Morgan is skipper , right ? Usually picks the right option.

Have to point out that if they'd been only five down at the start of the nineteenth it probably wouldn't have mattered who was bowling Smile

If they keep fielding as well as this it gives them a big advantage over just about any other side quite start from bat and ball.

I accept Morgan's captaincy on the field is slightly ahead of mine from the armchair. Gracious, huh? Wink

As for the 19th with 5 wickets in hand, it was the (more likely imo) potential for Moeen to go for about 16 that gave me the wobbles, regardless of how many Sri Lanka needed then.

As you suggest, England's fielding seems streets ahead, especially in judging the boundary line.


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Post by guildfordbat Mon 01 Nov 2021, 6:19 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:PS I'm having an evening off from MotM posts. No quibbling this time for sure!

Weirdly cricinfo's smart stats system has Hasaranga as their MVP. Hmmm.

No wonder Dobell wanted out.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Mon 01 Nov 2021, 6:41 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:PS I'm having an evening off from MotM posts. No quibbling this time for sure!

Weirdly cricinfo's smart stats system has Hasaranga as their MVP. Hmmm.

No wonder Dobell wanted out.

They also have Morgan ridiculously low in the MVP stakes, behind (in order) Hasaranga, Buttler, Rashid, Jordan, Rajapaska, Theekshana, and Asalanka. Morgan's 40 runs are apparently only worth 35.70 "smart" runs, and even more bizarrely his MVP score drops from there to 28.56. I've no real idea how they calculate stuff like captaincy (or even if they do), but that ranking doesn't seem right at all to me.

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Post by alfie Tue 02 Nov 2021, 2:54 am

Considering cricket is a game which already boasts a lot of "statistics" it amuses me that modern (geeks ?) feel the need to constantly devise new ways of measuring individual and team performance. One generally doesn't need to consult the minute details in the scorebook to judge which players have had the greatest influence on a match - or indeed why one team has won and the other not. Data can be helpful in planning tactics and seeing retrospectively where one went right or wrong - but we probably don't need algorithms to decide the worth of particular player's efforts on a day.

That said , the one merit of some sort of stats system is that it takes out any subjectivity in assessing player performance. Everyone has his or her own biases ; but once a set of parameters are in place the system takes care of things in a perfectly objective manner. And of course if we "like" the result we applaud it - and if we disagree then it must be rubbish Smile

In truth I am sure the reasoning behind the calculations could be explained (in excruciating detail) by one of the modern stats masters ; but whether the system is perfect or debateable really doesn't matter. It is there , to be examined if you want (I generally don't) or ignored but really doesn't bother me one way or another.

Cricket is always about more than just numbers.

alfie

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Post by alfie Tue 02 Nov 2021, 3:09 am

After all the excitement of the last two or three days we move into a string of matches which are probably going to prove one sided and/or largely irrelevant to the competition.
Being t20 there is always the chance of a crazy upset , I suppose : but I really can't see Scotland or Namibia causing any ripples ; and even Bangladesh must be at fairly long odds to upset Australia or SA . So the India/Afghanistan match appears to be the main attraction for the rest of this week. It may go a long way towards settling group 2 ; but I fancy we will still be looking to next weekend for a couple of vital matches which will decide the runners up in both groups.

Actually the draw is proving to be quite well designed for interest : should end up with only the very last two games of the group stage as truly "dead" matches.

alfie

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Post by alfie Tue 02 Nov 2021, 3:48 am

Said the other day I would discuss how England were looking going forward : the short answer right now seems to be "rather good !"

The win over Sri Lanka certainly tested their nerve as well as skill in a way that the earlier three hadn't - and having to do it batting first was something I reckon we all wanted to see. Confirms (if confirmation were necessary) that this is a team that really is as good as their pre-tournament reputation suggests.

So : are there any weaknesses ? Bowling - thought to be the potential question mark - looks in fact extremely strong and versatile. The progress of Livingstone , with his ability to bowl in different style to left or right handers , has been a big bonus : I would venture to suggest his presence in the team has actually more than made up for the loss of Stokes - who would possibly have kept him out of the XI had he been available. He hasn't really had a chance to bat yet but you'd think he could do a job there too if/when he is called on.
Woakes too has exceeded expectations. Has taken some tap late , but that is a hazard all bowlers face in this game. If he keeps taking top order wickets people will perhaps stop worrying about the absence of Archer. Jordan has reacted to a few calls for his head Smile  (And yes I admit I have been one who questioned his presence at times) by producing a couple of excellent performances to settle doubts at least for now. So the loss of Mills to injury doesn't seem a too serious blow - though bad luck for him.
Rashid - and less predictably Moeen - are doing their jobs brilliantly. Four games and I'm giving the bowlers ten out of ten ...

Largely because of the excellence of the bowlers , the batting really wasn't tested until last night. Roy against Bangladesh , and even Buttler against Australia , were able to play essentially pressure free innings - and did so brilliantly. Meant no one else really got a chance to bat of course ; and that could - nearly did , last night - cost them in the later stages.
Was particularly good then to see Morgan bat himself towards his better form as his innings went on. Murphy's law says there will come a time when the openers both fail - and it will probably be when they are chasing 175 - so the one thing they will need is for the middle order to be ready to step up. Past records say they can : and since there really isn't any way to assure them of any sort of easy warm up knocks in this format we will just have to trust they will indeed do so when required.
One thing that I cannot emphasize enough is the fielding. Catching and ground fielding both : the gulf between England's work and that of say , West Indies , Sri Lanka - even Afghanistan - is immense. I haven't seen every ball of every match but from what I have watched I think it is fair to say there isn't a team out there with a better fielding group ; and the added confidence this must give the bowlers is surely worth a lot in any tight contest.

Are they unbeatable ?  Of course not. Any team can suffer a collapse . Example : in this very game , Buttler inside edged for four in about the third over , I think (a rare mistake!) But on another day that ball clips the stumps and they are four down early ...do they still come back ? And there is always the chance of a Carlos Brathwaite type assault turning a game on its head...

Reckon it is hard not to call them favourites though. So hopefully they can embrace that added pressure and do the job. Four down and three to go...

alfie

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