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World T20 discussion thread

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 09 Sep 2021, 11:18 am

First topic message reminder :

This is fast approaching in the UAE, and squads are beginning to be announced. England have announced theirs this morning

England's preliminary squad for the World T20;

Jason Roy
Jos Buttler
Dawid Malan
Jonny Bairstow
Liam Livingstone
Eoin Morgan
Sam Billings
Moeen Ali
Sam Curran
Chris Woakes
David Willey
Adil Rashid
Mark Wood
Chris Jordan
Tymal Mills

Reserves: James Vince, Liam Dawson, Tom Curran

Looks a solid squad, albeit the team has taken a hit in recent months with Archer's injury and then Stokes's withdrawal from international duty.
Billings in as the main batting backup, makes sense to me. He's played well in limited opportunity the past few summers.
I am a touch surprised both Woakes and Willey are in the squad...seems like they both do the same role to me?
Seems harsh, but happy no Tom Curran. He's not played well enough to be included.
I see some "why no Parkinson?" and it does seem a tad weird he isn't in reserve...but ultimately in T20 can you afford to carry someone like him, who while is a good bowler, is a liability in the field and offers absolutely nothing with the bat. I can see why Dawson is the chosen reserve over him, with those considerations.

I think the likely XI is;

Roy
Buttler
Malan
Bairstow
Livingstone
Morgan
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Mills

The real selection choices in there are between Woakes/Jordan, and Moeen/Sam Curran. Rest looks fairly set in stone to me
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Post by Gooseberry Tue 02 Nov 2021, 7:35 am

Hi chaps just popping back in to note that Englands success shows exactly how talentless, cowardly and pathetic the noted absentee Joe Root is Whistle

Have to say they look every bit red hot favourites to take the title here, 4 dominant displays so far in whats the tougher of the two groups. To do this without Stokes, Archer, Scurran and Stone available ...and leaving the likes of Hales on the shelf is some going and really shows the depth of talent England have developed in this format whilst "focussing on the test team" *cough*

Keeping Mo's head together and finding a role for him where he's effective is a pretty huge part, seeing him respond to being rotated out with a good performance is really gratifying. I give him a rough ride and was frankly glad when he quit test cricket and put a stop to the selectors endlessly looking back to him but genuinely glad for the guy that he not only managed to get his game together enough to be in the squad but is also justifying first team selection and contributing to Englands strong showing.

Of course being T20 the wheels can come off pretty fast, and there's 3 tough games coming up (albeit they can afford to lose to SA) regardless of who qualifies from group 2. If they keep taking early wickets and keep having at least one player step up with superstar batting performance they really can do this, and theres plenty of depth in the line up.

Theres some scope to cope with injuries in the squad too with only Rashid really unreplaceable, although Livingstones bowlings proved workable at this level. So overall I have to be positive, but it is a bit of a lottery format and the wheels can easily come off as the pressure mounts. Pakistan and New Zealand look the most likely to be the knock out opposition, neither in most people pre tournament top3 but clearly capable and switched on teams.


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Post by guildfordbat Tue 02 Nov 2021, 8:57 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Not sure where to put this, but in light of his excellent work often referred on here (see again today re: Azeem Rafiq), great news that George Dobell has been picked up by The Cricketer, starting in mid November - https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/news/george_dobell_to_join_the_cricketer_staff_across_print_and_digital.html

https://twitter.com/TheCricketerMag/status/1455129862964928512?s=20
Interesting little few minutes here - a fly sly digs at Cricinfo in there...! But mainly sounds like he's going to be allowed to continue what he's been doing, maybe with a little more editorial freedom.

Can't say I've ever followed their stuff or frequent their website, but will be adding it to my list now - so they've already gained one new follower here Very Happy

Thanks for that, Olly.

I didn't know where Dobell was heading, good to know. The Cricketer has beeen going for yonks as a monthly publication. I used to buy it off and on in the late '70s and during the '80s. However, that sort of publication has tended to fall away - at least for me - with all cricket details and articles you could possibly want being available at the press of a keyboard button. Hadn't thought about The Cricketer being online although obvious really that it should be. It'll certainly benefit from Dobell and certainly sounds like he'll have a pretty free hand.

As you say, an interesting interview with a few sly digs along the way. More than anything though, I lapped up his comment - ''You're always learning.'' Something to which we should all aspire.


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Post by VTR Tue 02 Nov 2021, 10:03 am

Agree with Gooseberry's point that no team can be considered a favourite. The best a team can do is get through to the semi finals without issues, then it is going to be a bit of a lottery really with the group stage form not counting for much. England are of course doing all they can and not causing any ofnus to sweat yet!

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Post by guildfordbat Tue 02 Nov 2021, 10:35 am

Rabada going through Bangladesh who are checking the plane times home.

28/3 after 6.

A win today for South Africa and they're still in with a chance of the semis.

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Post by alfie Tue 02 Nov 2021, 11:15 am

Safe to say that Bangladesh (sadly now without their own talisman Shakib ) are going to finish this pointless after a very disappointing tournament. Australia should smash them with ease too.
SA need a big lift in NRR to challenge England even if they can beat them next weekend. Well on the way to first part of that contract ; though they'd still have to hammer England by a similar huge margin to surpass them. Perhaps more to the point - if they can get any sort of win in that last game , a good NRR might keep them ahead of Australia.
Think they might still be praying for a West Indies win over the Aussies though.

Nice to see gooseberry back aboard too...

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Post by alfie Tue 02 Nov 2021, 11:31 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Not sure where to put this, but in light of his excellent work often referred on here (see again today re: Azeem Rafiq), great news that George Dobell has been picked up by The Cricketer, starting in mid November - https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/news/george_dobell_to_join_the_cricketer_staff_across_print_and_digital.html

https://twitter.com/TheCricketerMag/status/1455129862964928512?s=20
Interesting little few minutes here - a fly sly digs at Cricinfo in there...! But mainly sounds like he's going to be allowed to continue what he's been doing, maybe with a little more editorial freedom.

Can't say I've ever followed their stuff or frequent their website, but will be adding it to my list now - so they've already gained one new follower here Very Happy

Thanks for that, Olly.

I didn't know where Dobell was heading, good to know. The Cricketer has beeen going for yonks as a monthly publication. I used to buy it off and on in the late '70s and during the '80s. However, that sort of publication has tended to fall away - at least for me - with all cricket details and articles you could possibly want being available at the press of a keyboard button. Hadn't thought about The Cricketer being online although obvious really that it should be. It'll certainly benefit from Dobell and certainly sounds like he'll have a pretty free hand.

As you say, an interesting interview with a few sly digs along the way. More than anything though, I lapped up his comment - ''You're always learning.'' Something to which we should all aspire.


Have been taking The Cricketer for years , since back when it was The Wisden Cricketer after the merger. Love my hard copy version though I suppose I could probably save a bit of money just taking the digital . Will be good to have Dobell on board thumbsup

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Post by Old Man Tue 02 Nov 2021, 11:32 am

What has recent T20 results been between SA and England?

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Post by alfie Tue 02 Nov 2021, 11:58 am

Old Man wrote:What has recent T20 results been between SA and England?

Three wins for England to nil for the SA hosts , in November last year.

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Post by Old Man Tue 02 Nov 2021, 12:02 pm

Thanks, was it romps or competitive?

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Post by alfie Tue 02 Nov 2021, 12:18 pm

SA batted first each time. England won by 5 wickets with 4 balls spare , 4 wickets with just one ball left , and the last one was a rout : 9 wickets and two and a half overs to spare.

Suppose you could say SA are "due" to win one Smile

Not sure it works that way though...

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Post by Old Man Tue 02 Nov 2021, 12:28 pm

Wow, bad start for SA

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Post by VTR Tue 02 Nov 2021, 12:39 pm

How bad have Bangladesh been in this tournament. After their thrashing of Australia before this, a lot of people had them down as possible semi finalists. They have been some notches below woeful!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 02 Nov 2021, 12:41 pm

Some more in depth thoughts on yesterday's affair, and a general #take that has formed from this tournament so far.

Firstly, agree with what Duty says below - Sri Lanka's decision to not drop Kumara after his poor performances so far, and add another spinner was weird, and actually match losing in the end.

Duty281 wrote:Why Sri Lanka didn't add another spinner is baffling. 40 runs in the PowerPlay - not bad, but losing three wickets is. England should be alright from here.

Seen some debate similar to the below from Soul/JDizzle re: Morgan's knock...and I do have sympathy with both sides. Firstly think it was right to send Morgan in at that juncture, England needed someone to rebuild and he is better than Moeen/Livingstone at that. Do think, if it was around the 10th over then it should've been Moeen, because as we saw, Morgan is much much better against the pacers than spinners, and Moeen vice versa.
Overall a good knock by Eoin, and nice to see him find some form - but if I was being critical, I do think England/himself left that acceleration 1/2 overs too late, and were quite lucky to be up against a poor Sri Lanka seam effort (and have Jos doing Jos things). With the batting heavy strategy, they could've gone earlier imo to make sure of that 160ish score.

JDizzle wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Buttler will rightly get all the plaudits but I actually think that's a decent innings from Morgan too, at 35-3 things could have gone downhill quickly but he assessed the situation perfectly and accelerated when he needed to.

First England player to score centuries in all three formats, take a bow Jos.

Not sure I entirely agree on Morgan. He started very, very slowly. England could have easily limped to the sort of score we’ve seen Australia and India get too. Albeit I think this pitch is trickier than the others we have seen.

Luckily England have Jos - and he can cover up a lot! I don’t think it’s even close he’s England’s greatest ever white ball player anymore.

Some further England points;

- Jos is now undoubtedly England's best ever white ball male bat. I think me and JDizzle have been on the same page for that for a while, but the last two knocks just confirm it...his t20i stats opening the batting are absolutely absurd!

- beginning to be slightly concerned about Woakes's bowling...just teeny tiny concern. Asalanka showed a bit in the powerplay yesterday, and it's also happening towards the death a tad...Woakes's great strength is hitting the same length time and again, but in T20 that can also be a great weakness against batsmen willing to take the risk (see Roy vs Hazlewood, a similar type of bowler). Just something I've got my eye on, a good test against De Kock coming up in the final game!

- Alfie said it, but will reiterate just how bloody good England's fielding is on the whole - Bairstow had one ludicrous boundary save early on where he slid about 5 metres fully stretched and brought it back, as well as the obvious Roy catches. Definitely the best in the tournament so far.

- Morgan's captaincy, along with having the experience of all of these players to handle situations like the Mills injury yesterday, can't be understated I don't think. He is the best white ball captain in the game right now (probably in the best ever conversation?). I think they took a calculated risk yesterday re: Woakes bowling the rest of that over, and I don't really disagree with it. Three overs of spin bowling to the long boundary, was either likely to produce wickets or runs...and they came on the right side of it this time.

- Liked bowling Rashid out early, Buttler did say on sky that they wanted to do it before the ball become a bar of soap. Which, in turn I think shows just what a good job Livingstone did with the ball again...not Rashid Khan by any means, but a solid solid job with the ball so far from him.

- Mills injury could be a blow...I appreciate the last game and his over in this one hadn't gone so well, but if him and Wood are out, they're in a spot of bother. I know he has been poor recently, and I am hardly his biggest fan...but these are the types of wickets where Tom Curran's bowling can be useful if he is on song, seeing as they don't seem to like Dawson I would just edge for bringing him in instead of Willey if the two quicks are out. Hopefully Wood is fit!

- Finally...seriously seriously concerned about Dawid Malan now. Scores of 18 (18), 11 (15), 28* (25), 8 (8), 6 (8) now for him including the warm up stuff, coming off a poor white ball 2021...
They're probably beyond the point of return in terms of playing someone else, but I just don't see him making a positive contribution in a semi final or final at this point in these conditions. Think there is certainly an argument that Billings can't do any worse if he came in for him (Billings is a pretty decent player of spin, and maybe could slot in at 6/7 and allow one of Livingstone/Moeen to bat higher at 3?).

General points now;

- I think we're seeing in this tournament that teams batting first, need to aim for 160+ to have a chance of winning, even if they get off to a poor start. 140 has been defended once (West Indies against Bangladesh I believe) and that was in a day game...just scratching around for 120/130 really isn't cutting the mustard particularly in the late games because of the dew factor. Even if you are 35-3 or whatever batting first, I think it's worth the risk of counter attacking and going for 160+ and being 90/100 all out rather than scratching around for 130 odd. There isn't much difference in your likelihood of winning defending 130 than there is 100, whereas defending 160 there obviously is.

- Sri Lanka certainly seem to have made some progress since they were over here in the summer - which is good to see! A shame they don't have more to show for their efforts in this tournament, but certainly some hope for the future with some of these players
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 02 Nov 2021, 12:45 pm

VTR wrote:How bad have Bangladesh been in this tournament. After their thrashing of Australia before this, a lot of people had them down as possible semi finalists. They have been some notches below woeful!

Close between them and India for the biggest disappointments for me - Bangladesh edging it because of how poor they were in round 1 too. Really thought they would go well in these conditions, but it's been shocking!
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Post by Duty281 Tue 02 Nov 2021, 12:57 pm

Agree with Bangladesh and India being the biggest disappointments. They both just haven't turned up for whatever reason. Bangladesh's batting today was pathetic.

Mind you, South Africa haven't conducted this chase well considering it could still come down to NRR. South Africa, Australia and the West Indies the teams left in the hunt for second.

I think South Africa are a quality team, but stylistically they don't match up to England well and I think it'll be a comfortable win for England. West Indies are probably too far adrift on NRR even if they win their two remaining games. So it's realistically between South Africa and Australia for second.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 02 Nov 2021, 1:07 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

- Jos is now undoubtedly England's best ever white ball male bat. I think me and JDizzle have been on the same page for that for a while, but the last two knocks just confirm it...his t20i stats opening the batting are absolutely absurd!


Don't get me wrong Buttler is a phenomenal player when in full flow but best English white ball batsman ever, i'm not too sure. Since the batting domination of the last decade i'd say he and Bairstow are pretty even, Buttler is the better T20 player but Bairstow is the better 50 over player. I'd also say it's impossible to compare the current crop with previous generations, Pietersen for instance played his last white ball game back in 2013, it's now a different game. Even then i'd suggest KP is better than both in the shortest form of the game, 37.93 @ 141.51 is some going, can only assume those numbers would be even better were he playing today.

It's a toss up between the three this century with anything going before being irrelevant, also a generous acknowledgment of Trescothick and Root too.

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Post by VTR Tue 02 Nov 2021, 1:41 pm

I'd go Buttler as well, agree it is hard to compare eras, and I probably would put KP second still, especially as he has a World T20 on his CV. What about best ever white ball bowler then? Adil Rashid must be up near the top of that debate

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 02 Nov 2021, 1:54 pm

Anderson, Flintoff, Plunkett, Rashid and Gough would be the names i'd initially put forward but worth noting that four of them played very little or no T20 cricket. I wouldn't consider him myself but Swann is statistically better than Rashid.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 02 Nov 2021, 2:49 pm

Interesting game shaping up between Pakistan and Namibia. Pakistan chose to bat first, they've only amassed 59/0 in the first ten overs.

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Post by Gooseberry Tue 02 Nov 2021, 2:58 pm

alfie wrote:SA batted first each time. England won by 5 wickets with 4 balls spare , 4 wickets with just one ball left , and the last one was a rout : 9 wickets and two and a half overs to spare.

Suppose you could say SA are "due" to win one Smile

Not sure it works that way though...

SA seem to have got their their acts together for this tournament, they've been a bit of a pigs ear despite some talented players in white ball over the past few years. They were a shamble at the 50 over cup. Interestingly its without some of the big name stars of the previous eras, and on paper a less talented or at least star studded squad but one playing closer to their potential. Could well be a dry run of the final on Saturday.

Whilst England have far the better record head to head and in general over the past few years and came into the tournament much more fancied SA really do seem to have upped their game.

Still  have to fancy England, just don't think recent history matters so much.

Bangladesh like the West Indies on the other hand not only didn't turn up for the tournament but also seem to have left before this one was even supposed to be over. Very disappointing.

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Post by Gooseberry Tue 02 Nov 2021, 2:58 pm

Duty281 wrote:Interesting game shaping up between Pakistan and Namibia. Pakistan chose to bat first, they've only amassed 59/0 in the first ten overs.

Wonder what odds you couldve got on that Whistle

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Post by king_carlos Tue 02 Nov 2021, 3:13 pm

Jofra is the best white ball bowler I've seen bowl for England. Bowls in all phases of the game, economical and takes wickets. He's a phenomenal white ball bowler. I just hope we see a lot more of him.

Of the bowlers who have played a lot of white ball games for England it'd probably be Gough. At his peak he was very good with the new and old ball. I've not seen many England bowlers that reverse the white ball but Gough did.

1.Trescothick
2.Bairstow
3.Root
4.Pietersen
5.Morgan (c)
6.Buttler (wk)
7.Flintoff
8.Woakes
9.Rashid
10.Archer
11.Gough

I reckon that'd be my best ever ODI side for England.

Jimmy's white ball stats stack up well but it should be said that Collingwood took 111 wickets at a similar economy which says a lot about how many ODI sides batted during those periods. The middle overs of ODI games used to be purgatory for a spectator.

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Post by VTR Tue 02 Nov 2021, 3:20 pm

Can't really argue with that team. I did think Archer is in the frame, just hope he can come back and be effective over a longer period. That's why I thought Rashid, who has been a top player since the Morgan revolution in 2015.

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Post by king_carlos Tue 02 Nov 2021, 3:38 pm

Babar and Rizwan are such a good partnership in these conditions. They read the situation so well.

Whilst Hafeez has batted really well here I must say that I'd probably have sent Asif Ali in given the situation when Fakhar got out. Hafeez is striking at 200 but I'd back Asif to do that more often than Hafeez.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 02 Nov 2021, 4:04 pm

KC

That team looks pretty much spot on to me, that number eight position is very much a horses for courses selection, the top seven is inarguable although slightly harsh on Stokes. You could potentially have him instead of Woakes but you've then got Flintoff wasted down at eight.

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Post by dummy_half Tue 02 Nov 2021, 4:35 pm

king_carlos wrote:Jofra is the best white ball bowler I've seen bowl for England. Bowls in all phases of the game, economical and takes wickets. He's a phenomenal white ball bowler. I just hope we see a lot more of him.

Of the bowlers who have played a lot of white ball games for England it'd probably be Gough. At his peak he was very good with the new and old ball. I've not seen many England bowlers that reverse the white ball but Gough did.

1.Trescothick
2.Bairstow
3.Root
4.Pietersen
5.Morgan (c)
6.Buttler (wk)
7.Flintoff
8.Woakes
9.Rashid
10.Archer
11.Gough

I reckon that'd be my best ever ODI side for England.

Jimmy's white ball stats stack up well but it should be said that Collingwood took 111 wickets at a similar economy which says a lot about how many ODI sides batted during those periods. The middle overs of ODI games used to be purgatory for a spectator.

I take it this is for a 50 over match? Only concern with that line up is there are only 5 front line bowlers, and you'd be relying on Root or KP if you needed a 6th (off spinner). The rest of the squad would have to include Roy as a front line batsman, Moeen as batsman / spinner, Stokes as an all rounder and Plunkett as another seamer - presumably Flintoff would be asked to do the Plunkett role of bowling the middle innings overs cheaply.

Alternatively, can wee have Cook opening and Trott at 3, and look to consistently get 250-280 rather than looking for 400+

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Post by king_carlos Tue 02 Nov 2021, 4:39 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:KC

That team looks pretty much spot on to me, that number eight position is very much a horses for courses selection, the top seven is inarguable although slightly harsh on Stokes. You could potentially have him instead of Woakes but you've then got Flintoff wasted down at eight.

I love Stokes but he's pretty much a part time bowler in white ball cricket. His economy and average are very high, plus he averages pretty much 30 balls a game so only 5 overs. In the IPL he averages something like 10 balls a game so well under half of what he is available to bowl. I certainly wouldn't consider picking him as a bowling all rounder in white ball cricket.

He's a really good red ball bowler and his Test stats stack up well when you consider he usually bowls with the older ball against set batsman. He's a very good change bowler which is a somewhat overlooked skill in the obsession with swing or pace up top. Players such as Siddle and Wagner that bowl consistently well with the older ball are gold dust. It's partly what makes Cummins so remarkable. His new ball bowling is outstanding of course but his ability with the old ball is insane. I don't think I've ever seen a bowler as quick as Cummins who matches him for accuracy. I can think of many that match him for accuracy or pace but not both as a combo.

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Post by king_carlos Tue 02 Nov 2021, 4:47 pm

dummy_half wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Jofra is the best white ball bowler I've seen bowl for England. Bowls in all phases of the game, economical and takes wickets. He's a phenomenal white ball bowler. I just hope we see a lot more of him.

Of the bowlers who have played a lot of white ball games for England it'd probably be Gough. At his peak he was very good with the new and old ball. I've not seen many England bowlers that reverse the white ball but Gough did.

1.Trescothick
2.Bairstow
3.Root
4.Pietersen
5.Morgan (c)
6.Buttler (wk)
7.Flintoff
8.Woakes
9.Rashid
10.Archer
11.Gough

I reckon that'd be my best ever ODI side for England.

Jimmy's white ball stats stack up well but it should be said that Collingwood took 111 wickets at a similar economy which says a lot about how many ODI sides batted during those periods. The middle overs of ODI games used to be purgatory for a spectator.

I take it this is for a 50 over match? Only concern with that line up is there are only 5 front line bowlers, and you'd be relying on Root or KP if you needed a 6th (off spinner). The rest of the squad would have to include Roy as a front line batsman, Moeen as batsman / spinner, Stokes as an all rounder and Plunkett as another seamer - presumably Flintoff would be asked to do the Plunkett role of bowling the middle innings overs cheaply.

Alternatively, can wee have Cook opening and Trott at 3, and look to consistently get 250-280 rather than looking for 400+

Yep that's for a 50 over game. Picking one for T20 is fairly pointless as it's basically the current side with KP given it's such a new format and England were largely fairly pish at it until fairly recently.

If we're taking this hypothetical to truly nerdy cricket levels where we say it's a 12 man squad to play an ODI and T20 series then I'd add Moeen to that XI.

1.Buttler (wk) 2.Trescothick 3.Pietersen 4.Bairstow 5.Morgan (c) 6.Moeen 7.Flintoff 8.Woakes 9.Rashid 10.Archer 11.Gough

Then some jigging of the order and shifting Root out could give you something like that.

If Root played more T20 cricket, settled into the anchor type role that Babar plays for Pakistan I actually think he could be an outstanding T20 cricketer. He just hasn't played that much of it though.

On the Cook and Trott playing Flower's percentages ODI cricket part, I was actually surprised to see how OK Strauss's ODI stats are. Average of 36, strike rate of 81 and 6 centuries. By no means excellent but in my head Strauss was nearing Vaughan levels of abysmal ODI cricket. My memory definitely does him a disservice there.

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Post by VTR Tue 02 Nov 2021, 4:49 pm

Cook, Bell, Trott was a solid top 3, I won't have a word said against them. They did their job seeing the shine off the ball, the real failing was everyone else not scoring 200 runs in the last 10 overs!

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Post by Duty281 Tue 02 Nov 2021, 5:21 pm

Pakistan cruising to victory, no dream upset for Namibia.

Couple of interesting games tomorrow - New Zealand needing to back up their previous win by playing against Scotland. Since entering the Super 12s, Scotland have done little of note, wonder if they have one big performance left?

Then India v Afghanistan. This is nearly a free hit for Afghanistan, if they lose this and beat New Zealand they'll probably be through on NRR anyway, although NZ may alter that equation if they crush Namibia and Scotland. All the pressure is on India, a desperate side approaching freefall after two dismal performances. Would be an amazing story if Afghanistan were to topple India. Unknown if Mujeeb will return from injury. Goes without saying he's an integral player for Afghanistan in the PowerPlay.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 02 Nov 2021, 7:26 pm

VTR wrote:Cook, Bell, Trott was a solid top 3, I won't have a word said against them. They did their job seeing the shine off the ball, the real failing was everyone else not scoring 200 runs in the last 10 overs!

Ah Ian Bell getting to 35* (35) in the powerplay before getting out for 62 (90) in the 27th
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Post by king_carlos Tue 02 Nov 2021, 7:32 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
VTR wrote:Cook, Bell, Trott was a solid top 3, I won't have a word said against them. They did their job seeing the shine off the ball, the real failing was everyone else not scoring 200 runs in the last 10 overs!

Ah Ian Bell getting to 35* (35) in the powerplay before getting out for 62 (90) in the 27th

When you've got all rounders like Samit Patel, Luke Wright and Michael Yardy coming in down the order you can afford to set a platform Olly.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 03 Nov 2021, 9:44 am

Scotland fielding first v New Zealand. Coetzer has recovered from injury, but Davey is a new one on the injury list. Kiwis unchanged.

Scotland aren't quite out of the tournament in mathematical terms, though they'll have to beat New Zealand, India and Pakistan in succession to have any hope of reaching the semi-finals.

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Post by JDizzle Wed 03 Nov 2021, 10:33 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
VTR wrote:Cook, Bell, Trott was a solid top 3, I won't have a word said against them. They did their job seeing the shine off the ball, the real failing was everyone else not scoring 200 runs in the last 10 overs!

Ah Ian Bell getting to 35* (35) in the powerplay before getting out for 62 (90) in the 27th

Has Ian Bell ever Ian Bell’d more than vs Scotland in 2015 CWC?

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-cricket-world-cup-2014-15-509587/england-vs-scotland-14th-match-pool-a-656425/full-scorecard

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Post by alfie Wed 03 Nov 2021, 10:54 am

NZ 70/3 After 10 overs ???

What is going on ? Are they in trouble here ? Probably not : Scotland aren't too good at chasing. But shows you need to concentrate , eh...

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Post by Duty281 Wed 03 Nov 2021, 10:57 am

Scotland have bowled decently in patches. It's a typical slow pitch, if the seamers take the pace off and bowl back of a length it's difficult to score quickly. Anything above 140 will be tough and NZ are still on course for 160+.

Scots need to remove Guptill quickly to have a chance.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 03 Nov 2021, 11:06 am

In my opinion, Scotland should have continued bowling their good bowlers. Why on earth was Watt removed against two right hand bats?
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Post by VTR Wed 03 Nov 2021, 11:26 am

JDizzle wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
VTR wrote:Cook, Bell, Trott was a solid top 3, I won't have a word said against them. They did their job seeing the shine off the ball, the real failing was everyone else not scoring 200 runs in the last 10 overs!

Ah Ian Bell getting to 35* (35) in the powerplay before getting out for 62 (90) in the 27th

Has Ian Bell ever Ian Bell’d more than vs Scotland in 2015 CWC?

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-cricket-world-cup-2014-15-509587/england-vs-scotland-14th-match-pool-a-656425/full-scorecard

That's a great spot! My research into Cook/Bell/Trott, which was what England actually fielded in the 2013 Champions Trophy also uncovered Cook's belligerent 2 off 9 balls in the final, which was effectively a T20 that England ended up narrowly losing

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Post by Duty281 Wed 03 Nov 2021, 11:28 am

VTR wrote:
JDizzle wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
VTR wrote:Cook, Bell, Trott was a solid top 3, I won't have a word said against them. They did their job seeing the shine off the ball, the real failing was everyone else not scoring 200 runs in the last 10 overs!

Ah Ian Bell getting to 35* (35) in the powerplay before getting out for 62 (90) in the 27th

Has Ian Bell ever Ian Bell’d more than vs Scotland in 2015 CWC?

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-cricket-world-cup-2014-15-509587/england-vs-scotland-14th-match-pool-a-656425/full-scorecard

That's a great spot! My research into Cook/Bell/Trott, which was what England actually fielded in the 2013 Champions Trophy also uncovered Cook's belligerent 2 off 9 balls in the final, which was effectively a T20 that England ended up narrowly losing

England really choked that final.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 03 Nov 2021, 11:33 am

Duty281 wrote:
VTR wrote:
JDizzle wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
VTR wrote:Cook, Bell, Trott was a solid top 3, I won't have a word said against them. They did their job seeing the shine off the ball, the real failing was everyone else not scoring 200 runs in the last 10 overs!

Ah Ian Bell getting to 35* (35) in the powerplay before getting out for 62 (90) in the 27th

Has Ian Bell ever Ian Bell’d more than vs Scotland in 2015 CWC?

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-cricket-world-cup-2014-15-509587/england-vs-scotland-14th-match-pool-a-656425/full-scorecard

That's a great spot! My research into Cook/Bell/Trott, which was what England actually fielded in the 2013 Champions Trophy also uncovered Cook's belligerent 2 off 9 balls in the final, which was effectively a T20 that England ended up narrowly losing

England really choked that final.

Textbook example of where the shift in attitude/mentality has really changed - so timid chasing down a low total, whereas now they'd have just blasted their way to it!
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Post by Duty281 Wed 03 Nov 2021, 11:45 am

172/5, Scotland did decently in the death overs to keep it below 180. Strong innings from Guptill who didn't quite have the energy to make three figures.

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https://www.606v2.com/viewtopic.php?t=70437

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