Fury - Wilder III - will include spoilers

by Guest Sat 09 Oct 2021, 12:23 am

First topic message reminder :

Fury weighs in a career heavy 277lbs - slightly misleading as he didn’t bother stripping down.
Wilder also at a career high 238lbs

by kingraf Sun 10 Oct 2021, 12:39 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Deontay Wilder is an even later starter to boxing than AJ - starting out in boxing at the age of 20. He has had 35 amateur fights and 45 professional fights and many of his professional fights didn't last very long, so I think he still has miles left on the clock so to speak. He may retire. He still seems pretty angry with the turn of events. I think he still has a lot to offer and it would be interesting to see how he fares against other top level boxers, but as you say, maybe that is not enough to keep him motivated to continue in his career as a professional boxer.

He was late to boxing, but he came from Amercan football, where he probably would have done the Oklahoma drill every pre-season. So he's been getting hit upside the head a lot longer than he's been a fighter. If he wishes to continue, more power to him, but if you go with MfC's card, he's basically won 2 rounds in 2 years, and he was down 4-1 before finding a home for that right hand vs Ortiz. The first Ortiz fight took a lot out of him as is, and he's now taken two absolute beatings in the last two years. You don't bounce back at 35 from those the way you did at 30. If I'm anyone in his life whose income isn't directly related to his fighting, I'd be telling him its time to pack it in

by Mr Bounce Sun 10 Oct 2021, 9:48 pm

There was one point in the fight, I think it was the beginning of Round 3 where Wilder came out for the start and he looked absolutely lost and knackered. I can't imagine that his ego alone will want to take too many more beatings like the last 2 fights he's had. His aura of invincibility has long deserted him (some say as far ago as the first Ortiz fight), and the 3 fights with Fury he's won no more than a handful of rounds in total.

He's richer than he probably ever dreamed of, and a few more fights, especially against a big puncher sensing his weakness might not be such a good idea for Wilder. Some fighters bounce back well from a loss, but consecutive losses where he's been a so completely outdone by a bigger and better opponent might end his days at the top table. He's 36 in a couple of weeks, and probably would do himself a favour by saying thank you and goodnight. He hasn't got too much to be ashamed of.

by aja424 Sun 10 Oct 2021, 10:39 pm

Eddie Hearn had AJ up by 3 rounds last night.

by Guest Sun 10 Oct 2021, 10:52 pm

Adam Kownacki suffered a broken eye socket at the hands of Robert Helenius.
Can’t see Kownacki carrying on much longer as it’s not really advisable to block punches with your face…

by Guest Sun 10 Oct 2021, 10:54 pm

I think Wilder will take time out let all the other match ups play out.
Wilder vs Joshua will probably end up being the match to make. Two big punchers both defensively poor. Mega payday for both.

by rapidringsroad Sun 10 Oct 2021, 11:39 pm

Moorer has been mentioned as a poor champion. I seem to remember he won on a split decision against an off form Holyfield and only because Jerry Roth gave Moorer a round despite him having suffered a knockdown.

by **88Chris05** Mon 11 Oct 2021, 1:07 am

rapidringsroad wrote:Moorer has been mentioned as a poor champion. I seem to remember he won on a split decision against an off form Holyfield and only because Jerry Roth gave Moorer a round despite him having suffered a knockdown.

Hey Rapid, good to see you popping in again. Yep you're right although I can actually see why Roth scored that a 10-10 rather than a 10-8 to Holyfield. Very rare that I'd ever support a judge doing this, but Moorer had dominated the other 2:50 of that round so comprehensively, and the knockdown itself was so innocuous, that I can see the case for a judge to exercise that discretion which they are entrusted with. Interestingly neither of the other two judges scored it 10-8 to Holyfield either, albeit they did still give him the round. Roth's decision was slightly unusual but not beyond justification, although as you say it turned out to be absolutely critical and was the difference between Holyfield keeping the belts and losing them.

As you also allude to, Holyfield wasn't really at the races that night and his ticker problems were diagnosed immediately afterwards. He was also without a decent cut man, having sacked off Ace Moratta, and of all the nights it could have happened picked up a cut here which was bothering him throughout - he never stopped dabbing at it. Looked like he was struggling to breathe for the most part with his gumshield hanging out and was complaining in his corner of shoulder pains as well, although that was probably more to do with his heart complaint than any specific injury. Either way he was there for the taking and Moorer still very nearly found a way to blow it.

Their rematch was actually one of Holyfield's best performances as a Heavyweight and he more than put the record straight. Hit Moorer with some beautiful combination punching and inflicted a hell of a lot of damage on him as I'm sure you'll remember.

by rapidringsroad Mon 11 Oct 2021, 2:28 am

You've got a better memory than me Chris, it's probably because I was a big Holyfield fan in those days and I was hoping for a good win from him that I remembered that round. I was glad when he got his revenge when they fought again.

by rapidringsroad Mon 11 Oct 2021, 2:37 am

I've just watched the Fury Wilder fight and I take back all the negative things I've said about Fury, and though he doesn't look, he does get the job done and even though Wilder did catch him with some of the many punches he threw he survived them and won convincingly enough. I don't know who is going to stop him.

by kingraf Mon 11 Oct 2021, 8:09 am

rapidringsroad wrote:I've just watched the Fury Wilder fight and I take back all the negative things I've said about Fury, and though he doesn't look, he does get the job done and even though Wilder did catch him with some of the many punches he threw he survived them and won convincingly enough. I don't know who is going to stop him.

Lol you'd swear he did more than beat the same guy three times the way some people go on about his "dominance of the division"

by Derbymanc Mon 11 Oct 2021, 8:29 am

To be fair Raf he's beaten one of the top 3 boxers in the division 3 times. They tried to set up him vs Joshua and it fell through (and whilst i'm loathe to place blame it's not the first time for EH).

Personally reckon we should have an absolute mega day of boxing with Joshua Vs Wilder from the UK in the mid afternoon, then Usyk Vs Fury in the evening (sort times out between the US and UK however you got to so it's not on at ridiculous times for anyone).

Then have the winner of both face of a month or 2 later (obviously depending on injuries etc).

Crown the king of the division and then you've got the very top, those just below and the ones looking to get up and push them to fight each other.

A man can dream

by No name Bertie Mon 11 Oct 2021, 8:59 am

We are watching the worlds best heavyweights. In Fury he might be the best, and Deontay Wilder might be the second best or close to that. To be up there they must be very special in their own way even if they don't necessarily look so good to watch on the screen. In another sport I recall Djokovic saying his younger brother would end up a better tennis player than himself but his younger brother it seems never came close to making it in the professional ranks. So I think to myself what is it that makes them so special? With Tyson Fury, listening to the various voices inside the sport of boxing, and reflecting on what I see, it seems to me his specialness is that he moves like a welterweight in a "super" heavyweight body. He also has great presence of mind in the ring (ring IQ), judging his opponents, the distances, and getting the timings right. He also has a great chin. Listening to Fury after his win his interviews and speeches were immaculate - they couldn't have been better if they had been written by a team of PR experts and all perfectly enunciated. He even created a perfect segue to enter into a song.

by Soul Requiem Mon 11 Oct 2021, 9:53 am

It's amazing what difference nandrolone can make, it's odd that his doping is ignored.

by No name Bertie Mon 11 Oct 2021, 10:25 am

The main effect of nandrolone is to increase muscle mass, which results in greater power. When I look at the boxers in the division I note in recent months to years the boxers that have put on a lot of muscle mass.

by Soul Requiem Mon 11 Oct 2021, 10:34 am

No name Bertie wrote:The main effect of nandrolone is to increase muscle mass, which results in greater power. When I look at the boxers in the division I note in recent months to years the boxers that have put on a lot of muscle mass.

Tyson and Hughie both failed tests for nandrolone, that is a fact. Increased muscle mass doesn't necessarily result in great power at all.

by Derbymanc Mon 11 Oct 2021, 10:36 am

They did fail tests, they're tested still I believe and haven't tested positive since.

Whilst i'm in favour of big bans for drug cheats that's the way the sport is at the minute.

by No name Bertie Mon 11 Oct 2021, 11:09 am

Listening to Malik Scott he was really proud of himself and with Deontay Wilder on Wilder's performance in this trilogy fight. It is clear that Malik Scott has great passion to continue working with Wilder as he believes Wilder has shown great improvement and that there is a lot more that he is capable of. There is a project here that he wants to continue and the very close connection he has with Wilder indicates there is a good likelihood that he will persuade Wilder that there is more and better to come. He wants Wilder to have a complete rest now, recover from his injuries, he broke a bone in his right hand, and has a few other issues. Most importantly he doesn't want Wilder to think about boxing for a while.

He said after Wilder's loss to Fury in the second fight Wilder couldn't stop thinking about what happened, grew frustrated, started believing everything that was said, became paranoid, became sort of demented in his desire to avenge the defeat, had to fight through arbitration to get the fight, entrusted his training and his life in Malik Scott to get him ready to beat Fury in the rematch.

Malik said he had seen and spoken to Wilder after the fight and that Wilder still had some of the feelings he had towards Fury that he had before the fight and that explains why he didn't want to show any respect towards Fury. However Malik Scott wants Wilder to take a complete mental break from boxing in order to refresh and recharge and then go again but with Scott guiding him.

~~A lot of the~~ Some of the above is reading between the lines, and looking at the non-verbal cues etc but that was my interpretation of the interview Malik Scott had with ESNews with a reporter that was a strong supporter of Deontay Wilder.

by kingraf Mon 11 Oct 2021, 11:15 am

Derbymanc wrote:To be fair Raf he's beaten one of the top 3 boxers in the division 3 times.

Top three according to what though? His actual record is super light.

Usyk in two years at the Division has Chisora and Joshua on his ledger.
Whyte has Chisora, Povetkin (although I guess this was as close to a corpse as a fighter can legally be and still fight), Parker, and then a very solid B- list with Wach, Rivas and Helenius.
Wilder doesn't have a win on his record book you can honestly look at and think "would have been an interesting night for AJ/Fury" outside of MAYBE Ortiz, and Ortiz is very possibly nearing 50 years old!

by Sgt_Pooly Mon 11 Oct 2021, 11:31 am

kingraf wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:To be fair Raf he's beaten one of the top 3 boxers in the division 3 times.

Top three according to what though? His actual record is super light.

Usyk in two years at the Division has Chisora and Joshua on his ledger.
Whyte has Chisora, Povetkin (although I guess this was as close to a corpse as a fighter can legally be and still fight), Parker, and then a very solid B- list with Wach, Rivas and Helenius.
Wilder doesn't have a win on his record book you can honestly look at and think "would have been an interesting night for AJ/Fury" outside of MAYBE Ortiz, and Ortiz is very possibly nearing 50 years old!

Pretty sure he's younger than me and I'm 43!

The split on Fury is quite something. I have a pal who's a huge boxing fan and he was just was not even interested in watching this fight and refuses to give Fury even an ounce of credit for the 3 wins against Wilder. I've mentioned the fight a number of times and he will not enter into a conversation.

Personally, I used to have little time for Fury but could see his qualities as a boxer and that he would be an awkward opponent for pretty much everyone in the division. These last few years though, he's really grew on me and I think his erm...personality, is a breath of fresh air the division. He certainly gets me more interested that AJ.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 11 Oct 2021, 1:30 pm

People like Golovkin are liked so he gets a free pass on beating stiffs for years...Fury is controversial so Wlad...Chisora twice and Wilder three times are meaningless apparently..

The usual hypocrisy.

by kingraf Mon 11 Oct 2021, 1:55 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:People like Fury are liked so he gets a free pass on failing tests... Pacquiao is Filipino so never failing a test was meaningless apparently..

The usual hypocrisy.

by CaledonianCraig Mon 11 Oct 2021, 3:49 pm

Well the last year or so has seen the eager anticipation of Fury V A J. We had the debates over who would win and who was the better boxer before Wilder through a spanner in the works.

However, we have now had questions answered without Fury boxing A J. Fury can and has dealt with moments of peril and crisis and has marched through them to win. He has that aura about him that A J does not. A J has been found out a few times now being floored and not being able to recover or not being able to formulate a game plan to turn a fight around when things have went wrong. If the fight should ever come around I see only one winner - Tyson Fury. Also Fury has not been afraid to go to the States to fight the biggest star they have to offer whereas A J has. It does not make him look great doing that either.

by **88Chris05** Mon 11 Oct 2021, 4:17 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The split on Fury is quite something. I have a pal who's a huge boxing fan and he was just was not even interested in watching this fight and refuses to give Fury even an ounce of credit for the 3 wins against Wilder. I've mentioned the fight a number of times and he will not enter into a conversation.

I think quite a lot of it comes down to the fact that people just don't like being proven wrong. Or that some people take it worse than others, at least. Fury has confounded a lot of doubters so naturally a vocal minority of them will be a little bitter about it.

You have to remember how low expectations were regarding Fury when he first started emerging on the scene. No big fanfare or PR campaign ala Joshua, and no real expectations that he'd go on to reach anything like the level he has. A lot of people saw him as a bit of a joke figure who relied on gimmickry relating to his name, size and big mouth. In the ring plenty of people just saw a tubby, uncoordinated oaf uppercutting himself in the face and embarrassing himself by stating boldly that he was going to dethrone Wladimir, go over to America and smash up their best Heavyweights etc. while he was still fighting no-names in leisure centres.

There's never any disgrace in being a middling journeyman, but Fury's mouth and marmite personality provoked quite a lot of fans into really lording it over how this was all he'd ever be, that he was a joke about to be exposed, that he was dead meat against any leading contender and all that. The problem is, the more vocal you were about how trash he was back then, the more it must grate now.

I think if you've been a fan of the sport long enough you just have to accept that some fighters will always be particularly polarising and that some fans will never budge on their positions no matter what, be they too harsh or too gushing. Think Mike Tyson, Mayweather, Roy Jones, Naseem Hamed etc.

by Soul Requiem Mon 11 Oct 2021, 4:46 pm

Someone doping to win isn't being proven wrong.

by No name Bertie Mon 11 Oct 2021, 4:55 pm

This thread is about a boxing event that happened, was sanctioned by the various sporting officials, involved professional boxers, their trainers, their promoters, sanctioning bodies, boxing licensing agencies, VADA testing, lawyers, a sporting arena, ticketing agencies, hotels, conferences, the worlds media, transport, spectators, boxing celebrity. Yet some it seems don't like us commenting on what we observed because they themselves haven't moved on from something that everybody else in the boxing world has.

As I have mentioned in an earlier comment this is likely explicable by some having an emotional attachment (positive or negative) to certain professional boxers and not being able to move on from that.

by No name Bertie Mon 11 Oct 2021, 5:09 pm

88Chris05 wrote: ..... Fury has confounded a lot of doubters so naturally a vocal minority of them will be a little bitter about it.

You have to remember how low expectations were regarding Fury when he first started emerging on the scene. No big fanfare or PR campaign ala Joshua, and no real expectations that he'd go on to reach anything like the level he has. A lot of people saw him as a bit of a joke figure who relied on gimmickry relating to his name, size and big mouth. In the ring plenty of people just saw a tubby, uncoordinated oaf uppercutting himself in the face and embarrassing himself ....

The late, great Emanuel Steward stated that Tyson Fury and Deontay Wilder were the best prospects in boxing and could end up ruling the division in years to come. That was over nine years ago a few months before he died.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 11 Oct 2021, 5:50 pm

kingraf wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:People like Fury are liked so he gets a free pass on failing tests... Pacquiao is Filipino so never failing a test was meaningless apparently..

The usual hypocrisy.

It's not a gotcha.....My views are most fighters take illegal substances.....Always has been....

Some more than others.....Like being 21 at 108 pounds and knocking out 147 pounders..

by Soul Requiem Mon 11 Oct 2021, 5:58 pm

No name Bertie wrote:This thread is about a boxing event that happened, was sanctioned by the various sporting officials, involved professional boxers, their trainers, their promoters, sanctioning bodies, boxing licensing agencies, VADA testing, lawyers, a sporting arena, ticketing agencies, hotels, conferences, the worlds media, transport, spectators, boxing celebrity. Yet some it seems don't like us commenting on what we observed because they themselves haven't moved on from something that everybody else in the boxing world has.

As I have mentioned in an earlier comment this is likely explicable by some having an emotional attachment (positive or negative) to certain professional boxers and not being able to move on from that.

I'm entitled to bring up his failed test, in boxing it's unforgivable, he should have been banned for life.

by No name Bertie Mon 11 Oct 2021, 7:15 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:This thread is about a boxing event that happened, was sanctioned by the various sporting officials, involved professional boxers, their trainers, their promoters, sanctioning bodies, boxing licensing agencies, VADA testing, lawyers, a sporting arena, ticketing agencies, hotels, conferences, the worlds media, transport, spectators, boxing celebrity. Yet some it seems don't like us commenting on what we observed because they themselves haven't moved on from something that everybody else in the boxing world has.

As I have mentioned in an earlier comment this is likely explicable by some having an emotional attachment (positive or negative) to certain professional boxers and not being able to move on from that.

I'm entitled to bring up his failed test, in boxing it's unforgivable, he should have been banned for life.

The reality is he wasn't and there was a long process. Some people would like to comment on reality rather than the emotional well-being of posters that make it all about their own personal struggles refusing to cope with reality, stuck in the past over decisions they cannot accept, over matters they have no primary knowledge. How many times are you going to moan about the same thing over and over and over and for what? You don't like people moving on with reality?

by Mr Bounce Mon 11 Oct 2021, 7:20 pm

I don't like Fury as a person, a boxer or a role model. I think he was lucky to get away with pretty much sweeping the failed test under the carpet. I am very much with Soul in that I think he's a drugs cheat who doesn't care that he got caught.

I must congratulate him on his wins against Wilder - he has been able to do everything that all the other opponents couldn't and that's floor and stop him. BUT I am sick and tired of people writing all the hyperbole about him being able to dance his way out of trouble and being an amazing boxer. Last time I looked, amazing boxers don't get floored twice in the same round by someone who barely laid a glove on him in their previous fight, and is known as SOMEONE WHO CAN'T BOX VERY WELL. Fury was sloppy last Saturday and it showed.

Now, granted I am not the best at reading what will happen in a fight (take a look at my now amusing prediction for Joshua-Usyk for example) but surely I am not the only one who can see that Fury is half decent, but not the most amazing boxer in the Heavyweight Division? Yes he has good feet for a big guy, but surely if he's as great as all the press are lauding him to be, Wilder wouldn't have even got close to him. This is a guy who was decked by Neven Pajkic and Steve Cunningham. And yet he's being written about like he's the second coming of Ali, but super-sized.

Congratulations to Fury, sure. But stop going over the top.

by Soul Requiem Mon 11 Oct 2021, 7:21 pm

The reality is he failed a doping test and from that point on it brings into question all of his performances. Once a cheat always a cheat. No emotion just an opinion based on the facts.

You comment on whatever you want and I'll do the same.

by No name Bertie Mon 11 Oct 2021, 7:24 pm

The reality is there is a lot of throwing toys out of the pram and trying to grab attention to themselves while adults are trying to talk about reality. You don't know what happened. You weren't there. You read stories and that is it. As I have said the entire boxing world has moved on. The emotionally weak don't.

by No name Bertie Mon 11 Oct 2021, 7:30 pm

ps: I wrote no hyperbole about Tyson Fury I provided comments on what I observed and commented on what others in the sport said. Why do such threads descend into whinging, moaning, calling people names and the like. It seems like social media allows the inner child to emerge.

And that's it. The thread has been derailed because people don't want discussion on the merits of the fight and the abilities of the boxers. Instead it is all about personal issues. He is a cheat and we don't talk about cheaters and I am going to cry and cry if others do.

If anyone would like to post a link where grown up discussion on boxing occurs I would be interested.

by Soul Requiem Mon 11 Oct 2021, 7:34 pm

No name Bertie wrote:The reality is there is a lot of throwing toys out of the pram and trying to grab attention to themselves while adults are trying to talk about reality. You don't know what happened. You weren't there. You read stories and that is it. As I have said the entire boxing world has moved on. The emotionally weak don't.

Pathetic post quite frankly.

I'm well aware of what happened; Tyson Fury alongside his cousin Hughie failed tests for Nandrolone. You may wish to sweep that under the carpet but I will not. I've seen enough fights resulting in life changing injuries and death that I find it completely unacceptable to dope in combat sports. I will continue to point that out every time he's wrongly praised. Christian Hammer had his life endangered beyond what is acceptable.

by No name Bertie Mon 11 Oct 2021, 7:38 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:The reality is there is a lot of throwing toys out of the pram and trying to grab attention to themselves while adults are trying to talk about reality. You don't know what happened. You weren't there. You read stories and that is it. As I have said the entire boxing world has moved on. The emotionally weak don't.

Pathetic post quite frankly.

I'm well aware of what happened; Tyson Fury alongside his cousin Hughie failed tests for Nandrolone. You may wish to sweep that under the carpet but I will not. I've seen enough fights resulting in life changing injuries and death that I find it completely unacceptable to dope in combat sports. I will continue to point that out every time he's wrongly praised. Christian Hammer had his life endangered beyond what is acceptable.

Resorting to type now calling me pathetic. This thread is about the fight that just happened not about a failed test that occurred in the past and that has been put to bed. But you can't get over something that is water under the bridge and something that you have no direct knowledge of. Instead you have disrupted the thread and turned it into a keyboard warrior interchange between nobodies.

by Soul Requiem Mon 11 Oct 2021, 7:41 pm

The failed test is always relevant, his doping is the very reason any of this became possible. I retort in kind, post rubbish like you have and I'll respond as I see fit.

by kingraf Mon 11 Oct 2021, 10:19 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:People like Fury are liked so he gets a free pass on failing tests... Pacquiao is Filipino so never failing a test was meaningless apparently..

The usual hypocrisy.

It's not a gotcha.....My views are most fighters take illegal substances.....Always has been....

Some more than others.....Like being 21 at 108 pounds and knocking out 147 pounders..

It is when you repeat it ad nauseum with some and you don't think it needs mentioning with others.

by kingraf Mon 11 Oct 2021, 10:49 pm

Watched the two Fury knockdowns again, and on the first one he takes maybe 12 seconds, which isn't outrageous. The second one, Fury falls with maybe 16 seconds to go, the ref picks it up fine, but he goes from 4 with 11-12 seconds to go, then gets to "six" with six seconds left. In the interim he did have rag Wilder back to a neutral corner though so, I don't know if he can just pick up the count on "10" as a result of Fury still being down 10 seconds.

My overall feeling is Fury looked pretty lucid, and while a faster count would have Obviously been beneficial for Wilder - Not just in respect to maybe securing a knockout, but also the faster you get up from the floor the more likely it is your body takes a second to "normalise" your blood pressure and maybe you get up with a bit of postural hypotension and you don't have your feet all the way back. Saying that, with 16 seconds left, I just don't think there was enough time in the round to secure a KO if Fury gets up, and he definitely looks like be would have gotten up. And that's before considering that the ref spent what felt like an eternity every knockdown making sure the fighter was fit to continue. Non-story for me

by Derbymanc Tue 12 Oct 2021, 7:49 am

Soul Requiem wrote:Someone doping to win isn't being proven wrong.

Can you show me where he's been proven to have won and then doped? I mean he's been tested throughout the Wilder fights and come up negative.

What i find really funny is that people are quick to jump on those they don't like for it but quietly ignore it if it's a fighter they're a fan of.

He did wrong, got banned for it came back, cleaned up the division. Is a hell of a lot of a better boxer than any of us gave credit for (You'll see I was one of the ones shouting he was getting flattened the minute he met Price) and looks to be the top of the Heavyweights by a long margin at the moment (what with Usyks lacklustre performance against Chisora).

Hopefully we get Fury vs Usyk soon.

As for the state of doping in the sport, yeah it's bad there's way too many doing it and it should be a long long ban if your caught, to honest there should be more testing done. But like judging, we can shout about it but until the promoters want it too, it won't change.

by Derbymanc Tue 12 Oct 2021, 7:53 am

Mr Bounce wrote:I don't like Fury as a person, a boxer or a role model. I think he was lucky to get away with pretty much sweeping the failed test under the carpet. I am very much with Soul in that I think he's a drugs cheat who doesn't care that he got caught.

I must congratulate him on his wins against Wilder - he has been able to do everything that all the other opponents couldn't and that's floor and stop him. BUT I am sick and tired of people writing all the hyperbole about him being able to dance his way out of trouble and being an amazing boxer. Last time I looked, amazing boxers don't get floored twice in the same round by someone who barely laid a glove on him in their previous fight, and is known as SOMEONE WHO CAN'T BOX VERY WELL. Fury was sloppy last Saturday and it showed.

Now, granted I am not the best at reading what will happen in a fight (take a look at my now amusing prediction for Joshua-Usyk for example) but surely I am not the only one who can see that Fury is half decent, but not the most amazing boxer in the Heavyweight Division? Yes he has good feet for a big guy, but surely if he's as great as all the press are lauding him to be, Wilder wouldn't have even got close to him. This is a guy who was decked by Neven Pajkic and Steve Cunningham. And yet he's being written about like he's the second coming of Ali, but super-sized.

Congratulations to Fury, sure. But stop going over the top.

How long ago was Cunningham and Pajkic? Seriously we moan about fighters being protected so they keep their 0 but then the minute has a bit of trouble some people never let them forget it.

If you can't see how good of a technical boxer is then I don't know what to tell you. There's a resaon, coaches, ex boxers and the like all say he's that great. Even then ones that don't like him.

(I agree on Fury the person though)

by Soul Requiem Tue 12 Oct 2021, 9:35 am

Derbymanc wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Someone doping to win isn't being proven wrong.

Can you show me where he's been proven to have won and then doped? I mean he's been tested throughout the Wilder fights and come up negative.

What i find really funny is that people are quick to jump on those they don't like for it but quietly ignore it if it's a fighter they're a fan of.

He did wrong, got banned for it came back, cleaned up the division. Is a hell of a lot of a better boxer than any of us gave credit for (You'll see I was one of the ones shouting he was getting flattened the minute he met Price) and looks to be the top of the Heavyweights by a long margin at the moment (what with Usyks lacklustre performance against Chisora).

Hopefully we get Fury vs Usyk soon.

As for the state of doping in the sport, yeah it's bad there's way too many doing it and it should be a long long ban if your caught, to honest there should be more testing done. But like judging, we can shout about it but until the promoters want it too, it won't change.

He failed a doping test yes?

by No name Bertie Tue 12 Oct 2021, 10:07 am

Some people watch or listen to a boxing match because they are interested in the sport and interested in the battle between two individuals. Others watch a boxing match because they are only interested in the result - seeing someone they hate get beaten or seeing someone they adore win. The latter group have a tendency to start attacking posters who don't share the same emotional attachment as they do, bringing up irrelevant debateable stuff that has nothing to do with the fight itself, but with issues of the distant past. You see the same sort of thing happen in other subjects. Traditionally it has been said you should never talk about "politics" and "religion" because of the blind emotion it invokes, but it seems in the modern social media era it extends to nearly every subject - emotion trumping intellect.

by Derbymanc Tue 12 Oct 2021, 10:11 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Someone doping to win isn't being proven wrong.

Can you show me where he's been proven to have won and then doped? I mean he's been tested throughout the Wilder fights and come up negative.

What i find really funny is that people are quick to jump on those they don't like for it but quietly ignore it if it's a fighter they're a fan of.

He did wrong, got banned for it came back, cleaned up the division. Is a hell of a lot of a better boxer than any of us gave credit for (You'll see I was one of the ones shouting he was getting flattened the minute he met Price) and looks to be the top of the Heavyweights by a long margin at the moment (what with Usyks lacklustre performance against Chisora).

Hopefully we get Fury vs Usyk soon.

As for the state of doping in the sport, yeah it's bad there's way too many doing it and it should be a long long ban if your caught, to honest there should be more testing done. But like judging, we can shout about it but until the promoters want it too, it won't change.

He failed a doping test yes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Doping_cases_in_boxing

As have all of these and there's a lot more suspected so remember to be doing the same to them when they fight, the hypocrisy is ridiculous when it comes to Fury, the guys a plank so people try and deride him at every opportunity. Put your dummies back in and accept that he's gone above and beyond everyones expectations and made a lot of us look foolish......he's still doing it with some of you ;-)

by Derbymanc Tue 12 Oct 2021, 10:16 am

No name Bertie wrote:Some people watch or listen to a boxing match because they are interested in the sport and interested in the battle between two individuals. Others watch a boxing match because they are only interested in the result - seeing someone they hate get beaten or seeing someone they adore win. The latter group have a tendency to start attacking posters who don't share the same emotional attachment as they do, bringing up irrelevant debateable stuff that has nothing to do with the fight itself, but with issues of the distant past. You see the same sort of thing happen in other subjects. Traditionally it has been said you should never talk about "politics" and "religion" because of the blind emotion it invokes, but it seems in the modern social media era it extends to nearly every subject - emotion trumping intellect.

You get the same in any sport and any situation, people just get overly embarassed they were so wrong and have to hold on to whatever they can to try and 'prove' their point.

Fury failed a drug test - we know, it was reported at the time, he sat out his ban/punishment that he was given and come back, how many others have done it???
Whether you agree or not he did his 'time' so to speak and hasn't tested positive since therefore until he does you should be taking his results as they are same as Canelo, Roy Jones Jr, Erik Morales, Chavez Jr, Gamboa, Holyfield and the rest.

Whether the punishment fits the crime is something else entirely but in a sport that allowed another fighter fight with plaster in paris on his handwraps to then come back and not only fight for a title but be in a megafight for said title, does it really surprise you.............

by No name Bertie Tue 12 Oct 2021, 10:30 am

Derbymanc wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:Some people watch or listen to a boxing match because they are interested in the sport and interested in the battle between two individuals. Others watch a boxing match because they are only interested in the result - seeing someone they hate get beaten or seeing someone they adore win. The latter group have a tendency to start attacking posters who don't share the same emotional attachment as they do, bringing up irrelevant debateable stuff that has nothing to do with the fight itself, but with issues of the distant past. You see the same sort of thing happen in other subjects. Traditionally it has been said you should never talk about "politics" and "religion" because of the blind emotion it invokes, but it seems in the modern social media era it extends to nearly every subject - emotion trumping intellect.

You get the same in any sport and any situation, people just get overly embarassed they were so wrong and have to hold on to whatever they can to try and 'prove' their point.

Fury failed a drug test - we know, it was reported at the time, he sat out his ban/punishment that he was given and come back, how many others have done it???
Whether you agree or not he did his 'time' so to speak and hasn't tested positive since therefore until he does you should be taking his results as they are same as Canelo, Roy Jones Jr, Erik Morales, Chavez Jr, Gamboa, Holyfield and the rest.

Whether the punishment fits the crime is something else entirely but in a sport that allowed another fighter fight with plaster in paris on his handwraps to then come back and not only fight for a title but be in a megafight for said title, does it really surprise you.............

The subject of this thread is about the fight but you see how the latter group want to talk about something else - and everybody else has to end up yielding to them by talking about that something else. It just wastes a lot of our time having to deal with their emotional issues rather than the fight itself. The Tyson Fury nandrolone issue has been done to death in the past with millions of comments and tens of thousands of articles and hundreds of documentaries. So much time and energy wasted on things that happened in the past, that we have no direct knowledge of, in which we were not directly involved and which has zero bearing on our own lives. I don't want to have to invest time and energy dealing with their issues - I just wanted to talk about the fight itself.

by Mr Bounce Tue 12 Oct 2021, 10:37 am

Thing is with Fury - he always finds a way to win. And that is the mark of someone's who is good at their job.

by Derbymanc Tue 12 Oct 2021, 10:37 am

I actually missed the fight Bertie, I watched the UK card and was umming and aaaahing and thought sod it, it's the 3rd fight, It's a walkover for Fury OR he can't be bothered and he's getting knocked out so went to bed.

Then got up and saw it was one of the best heavyweight fight for years, was absolutely gutted :-) but it's always the way innit.

I've seen that Fury has to fight White next which shouldn't be a big issue for Fury but one of the things that draws us in is which Fury turns up. Can he get himself up for a fight he should win quiet easily. I kinda see where his dads coming from in that it should be Usyk or nothing but he needs the belt really as at the minute he looks head and shoulders above everyone else.

Can't deny the skill that's there (well some can ;-) and whilst I don't like Fury the person it's pretty refreshing to see him doing what he wants AND backing it up in the ring.

by Soul Requiem Tue 12 Oct 2021, 10:47 am

Derbymanc wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Someone doping to win isn't being proven wrong.

Can you show me where he's been proven to have won and then doped? I mean he's been tested throughout the Wilder fights and come up negative.

What i find really funny is that people are quick to jump on those they don't like for it but quietly ignore it if it's a fighter they're a fan of.

He did wrong, got banned for it came back, cleaned up the division. Is a hell of a lot of a better boxer than any of us gave credit for (You'll see I was one of the ones shouting he was getting flattened the minute he met Price) and looks to be the top of the Heavyweights by a long margin at the moment (what with Usyks lacklustre performance against Chisora).

Hopefully we get Fury vs Usyk soon.

As for the state of doping in the sport, yeah it's bad there's way too many doing it and it should be a long long ban if your caught, to honest there should be more testing done. But like judging, we can shout about it but until the promoters want it too, it won't change.

He failed a doping test yes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Doping_cases_in_boxing

As have all of these and there's a lot more suspected so remember to be doing the same to them when they fight, the hypocrisy is ridiculous when it comes to Fury, the guys a plank so people try and deride him at every opportunity. Put your dummies back in and accept that he's gone above and beyond everyones expectations and made a lot of us look foolish......he's still doing it with some of you ;-)

I do the same for every doper, I often point out that Alvarez is a cheat for instance. You may wish to ignore cheating but I do not, it's not a difficult concept to understand. In a sport where people do die it's unforgiveable, I'm not sure why having a dim view of cheating is an outrageous thing.

The one person I make allowances for is Shane Mosley because he had the balls to admit it.

by No name Bertie Tue 12 Oct 2021, 10:57 am

Derbymanc wrote:I actually missed the fight Bertie, I watched the UK card and was umming and aaaahing and thought sod it, it's the 3rd fight, It's a walkover for Fury OR he can't be bothered and he's getting knocked out so went to bed.

Then got up and saw it was one of the best heavyweight fight for years, was absolutely gutted :-) but it's always the way innit.

I've seen that Fury has to fight White next which shouldn't be a big issue for Fury but one of the things that draws us in is which Fury turns up. Can he get himself up for a fight he should win quiet easily. I kinda see where his dads coming from in that it should be Usyk or nothing but he needs the belt really as at the minute he looks head and shoulders above everyone else.

Can't deny the skill that's there (well some can ;-) and whilst I don't like Fury the person it's pretty refreshing to see him doing what he wants AND backing it up in the ring.

I listened to the fight, then watched the post fight interviews and I have seen rounds 9 to 11 and some highlights, and some analysis - whatever gets posted on youtube (without getting taking down). Tyson Fury is not a chiselled athlete he is just a bulking mass with flabby parts. Some people have likened him to a Neanderthal. It is not necessarily pretty on the eye but he is extremely effective, has amazing ring IQ and presence, and lots of tools in his tool box. Also I think Wilder deserves a lot more credit than some give him for the set of skills he possesses. At the end of the 10th after being dropped he himself started landing some powerful blows on Tyson, and for a time it looked like Tyson was in a bit of trouble. I think this was Wilder's best performance to date.

by Derbymanc Tue 12 Oct 2021, 11:05 am

So what that he admitted it, he still cheated. So should be held to the same standards.

I'm glad you hold every boxer on that list to the same high standards and i look forward to reading your views when people post their top 10 boxers etc and of course your own.

As i've stated countless times I believe drug cheats should serve longer bans, should be looked at more when/if they come back and if they test positive more than once should be banned for life from being involved with boxing at all. But that's not the rules at the moment.

But if you want to, start a thread on drug cheats and we can discuss it on there instead of derailing this thread celebrating one of the best heavyweight match ups in years.

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