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Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

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Jeff Navarro
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compelling and rich
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Pal Joey
VTR
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 14 Oct 2021, 9:46 am

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start a new thread for the winter cricket of 2021 that we (covid depending) have ahead of us. Obviously the World T20, but that has it's own thread...

The main event being the Ashes, with the dates below

Men's Ashes schedule
First Test: 8-12 December - Gabba, Brisbane (00:00 GMT)
Second Test: 16-20 December - Adelaide Oval, Adelaide (d/n - 04:00 GMT)
Third Test: 26-30 December - MCG, Melbourne (23:30 GMT, 25 December)
Fourth Test: 5-9 January - SCG, Sydney (23:30 GMT, 4 January)
Fifth Test: 14-18 January - Optus Stadium, Perth (02:30 GMT) (subject to change)

Women's Ashes schedule
Test: 27-30 January - Manuka Oval, Canberra (23:00 GMT, 26 January)
First T20: 4 February - North Sydney Oval, Sydney (08:10 GMT)
Second T20: 6 February - North Sydney Oval, Sydney (08:10 GMT)
Third T20: 10 February - Adelaide Oval, Adelaide (08:10 GMT)
First ODl: 13 February - Adelaide Oval, Adelaide (23:05 GMT, 12 February)
Second ODl: 16 February - Junction Oval, Melbourne (23:05 GMT, 15 February)
Third ODI: 19 February - Junction Oval, Melbourne (23:05 GMT, 18 February)

India have a busy winter, with New Zealand touring in November/December and then India head to South Africa for the boxing day test/January.
There's an interesting test series between Bangladesh and Pakistan in Bangladesh in Nov/Dec, which should be an entertaining watch. Unfortunately I don't see much cricket on the schedule for Pakistan/Sri Lanka (unless I am missing something!)
A few others on the future tours programme, but not confirmed yet as far as I see...
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Post by VTR Sun 19 Dec 2021, 12:59 pm

One worry for England is Australia might replace Marcus Harris with an actual cricketer. Plus the two premier seamers to come back, how enormous could these thrashings get?

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Post by VTR Sun 19 Dec 2021, 1:00 pm

Should say, Harris averaging 22 would walk into this England side

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Post by Gooseberry Sun 19 Dec 2021, 1:08 pm

VTR wrote:Should say, Harris averaging 22 would walk into this England side

Seeing some of the players who have walked into the side thats hardly praise

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Post by alfie Sun 19 Dec 2021, 1:15 pm

Positives for England from day four :

1/ They will still be batting on day five.
2/ Australia were bowled out (more or less) for significantly less than 400.
3/ Nobody lost a wicket to a no ball.
4/ They eventually held more catches than they dropped.
5/ Burns scored more than Harris.
6/ Burns scored more than Smith !

That should do for Silverwood's next press conference ...


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Post by Duty281 Sun 19 Dec 2021, 4:03 pm

It's OK, lads, I spoke to the F1 race director. Apparently England will need 50 to win tomorrow with all ten wickets in hand and only Warner and Harris will be permitted to bowl. It's in the bag.

Any clue what the third test selection will be? Presumably Leach will return and the pitch won't spin at all, such is England's way with selections. Expecting Wood to come back in as well, but the two that will drop out is a mystery. I'd like it to be Woakes and one of Anderson/Broad/Robinson dropping out (whichever needs a rest), but Woakes appears to be a favourite because of his ability to bat a little bit.

The batting could be anything. Any one of Burns, Pope and Buttler could be dropped, but the options to come in are so meagre - Crawley, Lawrence and Bairstow - that nothing may happen. Fitness concerns over Stokes and Root may debilitate England still further.

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Post by Gooseberry Sun 19 Dec 2021, 4:25 pm

Don't think England can afford to leave Robinson out he's been the only real wicket taker so far for them. Some danger of bowling him into the ground of course but he's almost half the age of Anderson and not had to bowl excessive amounts despite the runs aus have piled up.

Some talk around that livingstone coming in would offer another spin option and cover for leach missing out. Could be considered if they don't want to bowl stokes or worse he has to miss put altogether

As noted Mahmoods stock has risen in the time honoured tradition of any player not in the squad, although I'd only expect him to get called up if there's an actual injury.

Crawley I'd fancy has a fair chance of getting Hameeds spot, although it might be better for him not to.

It's hard to see anyway back into form for the team even of they could field a side on paper as strong as aus. Have to feel for Root who's reputation as a captain is getting trashed by a tour they didn't really want a medicore squad.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 19 Dec 2021, 5:50 pm

I'd be amazed if they dropped Hameed. This is only his fifth test since his recall, he's made two half-centuries in the summer and got two starts in four innings on this tour so far. He needs time, not to be chucked on the scrapheap so early.

I'd like to see Mahmood at some point, but have resigned myself to it not happening. Livingstone would be an absolute desperation call - he averaged 11 in the County Championship last season!

I don't think Root had much of a reputation as a good captain before this tour started, though I could be wrong. Hopefully his resignation is just around the corner and he can concentrate 100% on the batting element.

Can't help but wonder how much of a farce the West Indies tour could be - there's five T20s in January, I imagine the few who are in this current test squad will be unavailable. Then three tests in March - how many of the test team will want to be away from their families/home life for yet another month after spending 8/9 weeks in Australia?

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Post by Jeff Navarro Sun 19 Dec 2021, 6:13 pm

Saw the clip of poor chap Joe Root getting leathered in the man parts. Seemed like a savage blow. Made my eyes water. Hope he’s not seriously hurt.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 19 Dec 2021, 7:03 pm

This game....I hope for their own morale Eng bat two more sessions...and Stokes/Butler get runs...Pope I doubt can.....
In the ability to bat out one more session solidly could have earned Eng a draw

Next Game.....
Bairstow for Pope
Livingstone for Robinson
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Post by James100 Sun 19 Dec 2021, 7:55 pm

Isn't Livingstone back in England? With Australian quarantine rules, even if he flew out tomorrow he likely wouldn't be available until the final Test

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Post by Pal Joey Sun 19 Dec 2021, 9:50 pm

Pretty sure it's only 72 hours quarantine and a couple of tests after arriving - for the fully vaccinated.
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Post by guildfordbat Sun 19 Dec 2021, 10:34 pm

Pal Joey wrote:Pretty sure it's only 72 hours quarantine and a couple of tests after arriving - for the fully vaccinated.

Hi Joey - as Jules might suggest, so after 72 hours in quarantine anyone who is fully vaccinated can play a couple of tests. That probably explains some of the selections. Wink

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Post by king_carlos Sun 19 Dec 2021, 11:11 pm

I think Livingstone could have a future as a batsman in Test cricket from what I've seen of him for Lancs in the CC. He needs more recent red ball batting under his belt though. He may be someone looked at in the summer.

Picking him as a spinner in this series would be ludicrous!

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 2:07 am

Situation may be hopeless but I think recalling a (very) wild card from England when they have Leach and Bess here strikes me as the ultimate in silly ideas. And not going to happen.

One can moan about selection until blue in the face but the figures basically show the squad is - more or less - made up of the best players available. The unfortunate fact is that apart from Root and Stokes - and some of the bowlers , with due reservations about age/fitness/suitability for conditions - that best isn't really good enough.

Sticking to my mantra of waiting until the game is over before picking the next team. But it is fairly clear that some changes must be made before the series is officially decided. Whether any can be made that will help is another matter but it is hard to see how they could make things any worse...

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 4:02 am

Sunny and bright in Adelaide this afternoon as Stokes and Pope walk towards the gallows middle...

Warne and co talking up the possibilities of something amazing happening , Stokes and Buttler etc etc. I guess that's what Comms are paid to do.

I am wondering if England can last to lunch. Suppose there is a chance the Aussies might be little too relaxed this morning and let the batsmen have it a bit easier ; but I've a feeling today might be a good one for Nathan Lyon.

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 4:11 am

Pope lasted eight balls. Edge to slip as Starc and Smith continue their fun. 86/5.

Wonder if they'll make it to drinks...

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Post by Pal Joey Mon 20 Dec 2021, 4:15 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Pretty sure it's only 72 hours quarantine and a couple of tests after arriving - for the fully vaccinated.

Hi Joey - as Jules might suggest, so after 72 hours in quarantine anyone who is fully vaccinated can play a couple of tests. That probably explains some of the selections. Wink

I wonder what plans Olly has for Boxing Day?

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't make a disgrace of himself out there in the centre of the MCG. I'd back him Smile
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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 4:25 am

Buttler saved from a pair by an inexplicable error from Carey ...simple chance but he left it for Warner at slip and it runs away to the boundary...

So the Aussie fielders ain't quite infallible !

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 4:30 am

Hi PJ

Olly will need to get himself here pretty quickly if he's to make Boxing Day !

Certainly appear to be a vacancy or two...

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 4:43 am

Starc getting a good workout this afternoon...injury last night evidently didn't to do him any harm.

He's been all over Buttler but hasn't quite nailed him yet. Might be time to give Richardson a go - he bowled much better last night than his first innings efforts.

98/5 . So only 370 to go...

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 4:58 am

Stokes gone...lbw on review to Lyon.

Looked a bit speculative at first sight but he was playing back in his crease and as soon as the slow motion bit came up I thought it was danger time.

Woakes now - has probably been about England's third best bat so far (pity about the bowling) but I don't see him batting five hours from here...

And in fact they're up for caught behind already...but this time the review is lost.

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 5:03 am

Coming up to drinks . Buttler defending resolutely against Neser .

Slightly surprised Neser has been employed ahead of the faster bowlers , Richardson or Green. Sharing the load , I guess - or giving him an opportunity to stake his claim for later matches ?

Shouldn't matter : going to finish this some time today whoever bowls.

Drinks. 105/6

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 5:22 am

Woakes collecting a couple of boundaries with nice cover driving. Has looked the most comfortable of the England bats today (not a big achievement!) ; and really his batting in this series has been pretty good.

Buttler is playing in a contrasting style ...some 23 dot balls in a row now.

Bit of the fizz has gone out of this since the dismissal of Stokes : understandably perhaps. Still forty minutes to lunch.

121/6

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 6:07 am

Lunch at 142/6.  These two have done well to get through to the break , even if it's been made a little bit easier since Starc came out of the attack. Green strangely not used at all in that session. Ended up with a couple of overs from Marnus...at least he doesn't talk so much when he's bowling Smile

New ball in six overs so I think things will get a bit livelier after the resumption.

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 6:46 am

Resumed with Lyon...

This is curiously relaxing at the moment. The inevitability of defeat means tension is lacking : if Woakes and Buttler were still there at tea I'd have to get all anxious again Smile

Glad Mark Waugh isn't umpiring . The number of times he's called an English batsmen "out" the drs would have taken up half the playing time !

Think Woakes is quite enjoying facing Marnus. On to 36 now.

152/6

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 6:55 am

Steve Smith having a bowl ! Winding back the clock...

If Jos got out to this he would be livid ! No chances taken. Maiden.

New ball in two.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 20 Dec 2021, 7:01 am

Morning / Evening Alfie and all - well, this has lasted longer than I expected but ... oh no, I'm just up in time to see Starc take the new ball!

Haven't read your through our night posts yet. The quickest of summaries as to what's gone on please. thumbsup

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 20 Dec 2021, 7:08 am

Where is all this chatter about Livingstone come from?
The bloke averages 12.7 in first class cricket the past two years and is currently in England taking a break from cricket (rejected a BBL deal).

Would be an absolutely insane selection even if he was available, which he isn’t
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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 7:14 am

Fifty stand between these two...patient and sensible batting. Pity the top order couldn't have done more of this... Though batting is looking a bit trickier now the new ball has been taken. Couple of balls rapping pads but not close enough for even Mark Waugh to appeal.

Whatever else this resistance achieves , it is at least forcing Starc into multiple spells : into his 19th over now. Cummins will be back next week anyway ; but it can't hurt to put some miles in a key bowler's legs.

158/1. Only another four hours to go...

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 7:19 am

Oh hi , guildford and Olly...probably surprised to see its still going , eh ?

Don't think it would have been if Carey hadn't allowed an edge from Buttler straight past him immediately after Pope had got out which happened very early). Lyon got Stokes ; but these two have resisted well. Woakes with strokes , Buttler channeling Pujara.

Oh , and PJ advocated you coming in for the Boxing Day Test , Olly ...on the grounds you'd probably do at least as well as the current players Smile Need to get a flight fast though to have time for the quarantine...

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Post by Pal Joey Mon 20 Dec 2021, 7:26 am

Surely someone like Sir Richard Branson or Mick Jagger could arrange a special flight for him?

No tea parties beforehand, Olly!
It would be straight onto a special plane with some seats ripped out and a makeshift pitch installed for your warm-ups.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 20 Dec 2021, 7:27 am

alfie wrote:Oh hi , guildford and Olly...probably surprised to see its still going , eh ?

Don't think it would have been if Carey hadn't allowed an edge from Buttler straight past him immediately after Pope had got out which happened very early). Lyon got Stokes ; but these two have resisted well. Woakes with strokes , Buttler channeling Pujara.

Oh , and PJ advocated you coming in for the Boxing Day Test , Olly ...on the grounds you'd probably do at least as well as the current players Smile   Need to get a flight fast though to have time for the quarantine...

Sorry lads I packed up work for three weeks on Friday - you’ll have to look elsewhere
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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 7:31 am

The infuriating thing about watching this partnership - and the way the Australian bowling has started to look a great deal less menacing - is that England have so completely failed to take advantage of the absence of Cummins and Hazlewood in this match. Apart from that excellent Root/Malan stand , of course.
Sure , there have been periods when the ball has done a bit more ; and obviously the bowlers are a little wearied now : but I can't help thinking there have been a few too many wickets surrendered a bit too easily over the two innings.
England won't save this match - one more wicket leads to the hutch door ; but if they can stretch it out , say , to tea , we are all going to wonder what might have been with just a little more application from some of the bats in both innings.

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 7:34 am

And the end of a very good fighting innings from Woakes ! Bowled for 44 by one that might have kept a bit low from Richardson...

Was happening sooner or later. Richardson looks happy.

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Post by Pal Joey Mon 20 Dec 2021, 7:35 am

alfie wrote:And the end of a very good fighting innings from Woakes ! Bowled for 44 by one that might have kept a bit low from Richardson...

Was happening sooner or later. Richardson looks happy.

For once.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 20 Dec 2021, 7:37 am

The hilarity of England in Australia is that Chris Woakes is doing better with the bat than 5 of the top 7 with the bat, yet I don’t see how they can continue selecting him because he’s just so ineffective with the ball.

Good work by all involved
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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 7:39 am

Robinson has looked more rabbit than "nearly-all rounder " so far on this tour. Not sure we can count on him holding up the works too long.
Have to admire Buttler's patience today. 23 off 136 - incredible number of dot balls. He was all at sea early on against Starc but has battled through to make sure the Aussies have at least had to work for their victory.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 20 Dec 2021, 7:40 am

alfie wrote:Oh hi , guildford and Olly...probably surprised to see its still going , eh ?

Don't think it would have been if Carey hadn't allowed an edge from Buttler straight past him immediately after Pope had got out which happened very early). Lyon got Stokes ; but these two have resisted well. Woakes with strokes , Buttler channeling Pujara.

Oh , and PJ advocated you coming in for the Boxing Day Test , Olly ...on the grounds you'd probably do at least as well as the current players Smile   Need to get a flight fast though to have time for the quarantine...

Thanks, Alfie. ''Woakes with strokes'' - like it, get a copyright.

Just seen the Carey miss - very poor. Surprised by that, he's looked pretty good this series and taken a few, thought he would have been feeling good about himself and would have automatically gone for it.

Ah no! Richardson gets one to move back in and rattle Woakes' stumps. Thought he had been bowling well with the new ball

Just a question of when now. Tbf, that's been the question since this innings started but Buttler and Woakes made us hope about something else for a while.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 20 Dec 2021, 7:56 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:The hilarity of England in Australia is that Chris Woakes is doing better with the bat than 5 of the top 7 with the bat, yet I don’t see how they can continue selecting him because he’s just so ineffective with the ball.

Good work by all involved

I went for Woakes in Joey's comp for a couple of reasons. Neither was because I thought his bowling would be particularly penetrative and troubling. I just visualised him taking a couple of late wickets each dig, particularly as the late middle order hit out. I also reckoned he was capable of 50 to 60 odd match runs, he's a more than decent batsman. Whilst he hasn't let me or himself down with the bat and done just that in this Test, he's been a complete flop in his main job and not even picked up tail end wickets. That's why he's looking at the chop and I'm floundering around in Joey's comp!

Enjoy your 3 weeks off, Olly. thumbsup

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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 8:06 am

Woakes is always in consideration for selection because of what he offers with the bat : heaven knows they need all they can get in that area. Unfortunately this often distorts the make up of the bowling attack - caused Broad to be left out in Brisbane , no spinner here.

I know the old saying about picking your best bowlers ; but it isn't that simple. Teams with tails that start at eight tend not to fare very well in Australia.

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Post by Pal Joey Mon 20 Dec 2021, 8:07 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:The hilarity of England in Australia is that Chris Woakes is doing better with the bat than 5 of the top 7 with the bat, yet I don’t see how they can continue selecting him because he’s just so ineffective with the ball.

Good work by all involved

I went for Woakes in Joey's comp for a couple of reasons. Neither was because I thought his bowling would be particularly penetrative and troubling. I just visualised him taking a couple of late wickets each dig, particularly as the late middle order hit out. I also reckoned he was capable of 50 to 60 odd match runs, he's a more than decent batsman. Whilst he hasn't let me or himself down with the bat and done just that in this Test, he's been a complete flop in his main job and not even picked up tail end wickets. That's why he's looking at the chop and I'm floundering around in Joey's comp!

Enjoy your 3 weeks off, Olly. thumbsup

You're actually coming 2nd right now only 3 points behind Goose... who also has Woakes. You've both got Starc but he has Neser and you obviously want Richardson to take another wicket or two. Goose has Anderson and you've got Robinson. You both have Smith for catches, Carey for dismissals (only alfie has Buttler) and an Australia win.
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Post by VTR Mon 20 Dec 2021, 8:12 am

Without being too critical of one of the few people that have held a bat the correct way round, we've seen this before from Buttler twice before, in two matches that were lost in the end, as this surely will be. We really need him to be influencing the match when it's alive. Still not convinced he is offering much useful to the team

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 20 Dec 2021, 8:19 am

Pal Joey wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:The hilarity of England in Australia is that Chris Woakes is doing better with the bat than 5 of the top 7 with the bat, yet I don’t see how they can continue selecting him because he’s just so ineffective with the ball.

Good work by all involved

I went for Woakes in Joey's comp for a couple of reasons. Neither was because I thought his bowling would be particularly penetrative and troubling. I just visualised him taking a couple of late wickets each dig, particularly as the late middle order hit out. I also reckoned he was capable of 50 to 60 odd match runs, he's a more than decent batsman. Whilst he hasn't let me or himself down with the bat and done just that in this Test, he's been a complete flop in his main job and not even picked up tail end wickets. That's why he's looking at the chop and I'm floundering around in Joey's comp!

Enjoy your 3 weeks off, Olly. thumbsup

You're actually coming 2nd right now only 3 points behind Goose... who also has Woakes. You've both got Starc but he has Neser and you obviously want Richardson to take another wicket or two. Goose has Anderson and you've got Robinson. You both have Smith for catches, Carey for dismissals (only alfie has Buttler) and an Australia win.

Wow - that's a lot better than I expected! Mind you, it probably doesn't allow for KP-f's retrospective changes. Wink

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 20 Dec 2021, 8:31 am

VTR wrote:Without being too critical of one of the few people that have held a bat the correct way round, we've seen this before from Buttler twice before, in two matches that were lost in the end, as this surely will be. We really need him to be influencing the match when it's alive. Still not convinced he is offering much useful to the team

I know I am very much in the Buttler camp compared to most on here (by reference to his contemporaries he’s actually done fine since his recall) - he can never just seem to fully put it together, and his best knocks seem to come in the situations you would least expect. He’s got a much better record batting at 6, than at 7 (you’d figure he’d be better at the hit out with the tail but he really hasn’t ever been), and he’s actually played a few of these longer knocks he’s playing today. I do tend to think when he’s got a clearly defined goal in mind when he goes out to bat, he does better…seems to struggle more when there isn’t a “you need 150 runs or to bat for X time”

Same seems to happen with his keeping - he’s got a higher percentage of chances taken than the average round the world in the time he’s been keeping, but he seems to drop the simple ones and take the tougher ones!

All very strange. Hopefully this knock will give him some confidence for the remainder of the series…it’s not like Bairstow is Gilchrist on the bench (lest we forget how badly he kept in that one test he did this past summer)
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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 8:43 am

Robinson lasted longer than I expected. Gone now though and the end is surely nigh...

Buttler has shown great concentration to hang in so long and I think we can say he's saved his place (not that I really think they'd have dropped him as he seems to have an "immunity" card with the selectors) Would have been a lot of on line chat though if Carey had caught him this afternoon and completed his pair !

Certainly needed a confidence boost as he had been looking very uncertain in this match with bat and gloves.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 20 Dec 2021, 8:55 am

alfie wrote:Robinson lasted longer than I expected. Gone now though and the end is surely nigh...

Buttler has shown great concentration to hang in so long and I think we can say he's saved his place (not that I really think they'd have dropped him as he seems to have an "immunity" card with the selectors) Would have been a lot of on line chat though if Carey had caught him this afternoon and completed his pair !

Certainly needed a confidence boost as he had been looking very uncertain in this match with bat and gloves.

Yeah, Robinson's batting has been poor this series. Complete lack of footwork too often. Still some way for him to go to rival Archer's disparity between batting at county and test level.


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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 9:03 am

Didn't expect this to go to the night session. Should really be pleased England have managed to battle it out this far but conversely it just makes the inevitable loss some time in the next twenty odd overs - almost within sight of safety - all the more galling.

For all the hype over pink balls etc (not a Joe Root joke) this was a flat pitch. Australia had two rookie bowlers. Not nice to be under the pressure of chasing 470 : but England really ought to have been able to draw this match.

Resistance today , for all its gutsiness , falls into the category of too little , too late.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 20 Dec 2021, 9:07 am

alfie wrote:Didn't expect this to go to the night session. Should really be pleased England have managed to battle it out this far but conversely it just makes the inevitable loss some time in the next twenty odd overs - almost within sight of safety - all the more galling.

For all the hype over pink balls etc (not a Joe Root joke) this was a flat pitch. Australia had two rookie bowlers. Not nice to be under the pressure of chasing 470 : but England really ought to have been able to draw this match.

Resistance today , for all its gutsiness , falls into the category of too little , too late.

Can’t keep making scores in the first innings that are like 200-300 under par!
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Post by alfie Mon 20 Dec 2021, 9:14 am

Unfortunately England recently seem incapable of putting those large totals on the board. Not that I am too surprised. In Australia the start tends to be important and if both openers are out in the first few overs consistently the chances of making big runs are not good.

England keep searching but they just haven't replaced Strauss in nine years or Cook in three.


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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Mon 20 Dec 2021, 9:26 am

alfie wrote:

England keep searching but they just haven't replaced Strauss in nine years or Cook in three.


Malan and Root are both doing ok as openers this series.

Mind the windows Tino.
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