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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by super_realist Fri 22 Oct 2021, 9:42 am

First topic message reminder :

incontinentia wrote:
super_realist wrote:Will Alec Baldwin go to jail for the manslaughter of that lady on the filmset under American law or is it considered an industrial accident?
Doesnt seem like he's in trouble just yet. How do you kill someone with a prop gun that fires blanks?

Edit: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/prop-gun-using-blanks-still-052227936.html

"As for the question of criminal responsibility, that’s for law enforcement to investigate. But it must be noted that in the vast majority of cases, the person who pulled the trigger wasn’t remotely at fault. They were handed a prop and assured it would function normally — and it didn’t."

Guns dont kill people, rappers do.

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Post by dynamark Tue 11 Jan 2022, 2:03 pm

Id argue that a lot of Tory voters myself included vote that way because they definitely do not want the only alternative

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Post by superflyweight Tue 11 Jan 2022, 2:10 pm

dynamark wrote:Id argue that a lot of Tory voters myself included vote that way because they definitely do not want the only alternative

Why? What bad thing happened under the last Labour government that would not have happened under a Conservative government? And the answer is not the Iraq War or the 2008 banking crisis.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 11 Jan 2022, 2:16 pm

superflyweight wrote:
dynamark wrote:Id argue that a lot of Tory voters myself included vote that way because they definitely do not want the only alternative

Why?  What bad thing happened under the last Labour government that would not have happened under a Conservative government?  And the answer is not the Iraq War or the 2008 banking crisis.  

New Labour I could get on board with, give me Blair or Brown and i'd considering my options. Milliband and Corbyn however is a different kettle of fish entirely hence the Tories obtaining a lot of negative votes, can't really comment on Starmer as of yet as policy hasn't been a factor during the pandemic.

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Post by superflyweight Tue 11 Jan 2022, 2:22 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
dynamark wrote:Id argue that a lot of Tory voters myself included vote that way because they definitely do not want the only alternative

Why?  What bad thing happened under the last Labour government that would not have happened under a Conservative government?  And the answer is not the Iraq War or the 2008 banking crisis.  

New Labour I could get on board with, give me Blair or Brown and i'd considering my options. Milliband and Corbyn however is a different kettle of fish entirely hence the Tories obtaining a lot of negative votes, can't really comment on Starmer as of yet as policy hasn't been a factor during the pandemic.

Agreed re Corbyn and to a slightly lesser extent, Milliband. However, if Labour had stayed in government then neither of those two would have come within a sniff of the leadership and the centrists would have continued to dominate the party. The move to the left was as a result of the election loss and mirrored the Conservative's own lurch to the right when they were in opposition, before Cameron brought them back the centre.

Starmer is slowly bringing the party back to the centre and the appointment of someone like Yvette Cooper to the shadow cabinet (which would have been unthinkable under Corbyn) is further proof of that.

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Post by dynamark Tue 11 Jan 2022, 3:06 pm

Super fly Im with Soul .I would not want the recent labour 'team' running my corner shop never mind the country . Blair you could just about tolerate but he was a populist and like a lot took measures that were vote winners.
Starmer may well get them back in the game with his new people over time but it will take time and the danger for him is the split of the far left of the party. And he needs rid of Rayner

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Post by JAS Wed 12 Jan 2022, 9:46 am

McLaren wrote:Jas

I have been saying this for years but the only thing you need to do in order to understand UK politics is to accept the English are very right wing and their priorities mostly revolve around looking to the past.

The current situation exemplifies this. The only thing that would have put pressure on the Tories to handle the pandemic more successfully would have been another mainstream right wing party. Pandemic handling is well down on the list of things the English think about when voting.  

Much as I'd like to agree with you on this one Mac I'd say No, they're not. What I would say though and this is maybe what's influencing your thinking is that they ARE generally more stridently anti-left in a way that the Scots and to an extent the Welsh are not. There seems to be a bit of a reluctance on the surface over accepting some of the basic tenets of Socialism, even ones that are a basic common decency. When you dig deeper you find out they're not against those sort of ideas at all but the thing is when most go into a voting booth they don't stand there and dig deep into their conscience.

Anyways...it does look like Boris is losing/has lost the dressing room!!

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Post by JAS Wed 12 Jan 2022, 9:59 am

I'd say the main cunundrum for the Tories now is do they jettison Johnson now or let him carry on for another year...why another year? Has anyone ACTUALLY realised how much their fuel bills are going to be come April, many of us will be in a position where yes we can afford the increases with a bit of belt tightening elsewhere (holidays, new clubs etc) but millions will not, we could be in for winter of discontent next winter if it's a cold one as millions simply will NOT be able to heat their homes. The Govt should be being a lot more honest (I know far fetched idea) with people NOW to give them more time to prepare. So, by this time next year, whoever is PM will be scarred by the oncoming fuel price crisis, why would the Tories want a new leader picking up that baggage.

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Post by McLaren Wed 12 Jan 2022, 2:29 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59871514


"Prince Andrew fails to get US civil case dismissed"
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Post by McLaren Wed 12 Jan 2022, 2:30 pm

Boris is a sideshow, some other Tory arse hole will slot it. Andrews plight is the real story. s
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Post by JAS Wed 12 Jan 2022, 3:43 pm

McLaren wrote:Boris is a sideshow, some other Tory arse hole will slot it. Andrews plight is the real story. s

Nope defo the opposite, Prince Andrew is the convenient side show to deflect attention away from the long slow death of Johnsons leadership.

He’s a symbol of abusive elitism yes but he doesn’t set or affect policy that determines millions of lives on a daily basis.

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Post by McLaren Wed 12 Jan 2022, 3:56 pm

Jas

Do you really think it matters what terrible person they slot into the PM position?

It could be the beginning of the end of the Royal family if one of them goes down for sex crimes.

If the timing of the Queens death, and Charles subsequent early reign, and Andrew getting found guilty (or whatever the civil version is) go against them then the family are in trouble. Or so I hope anyway. Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread - Page 17 1f64f
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Post by Duty281 Wed 12 Jan 2022, 4:05 pm

JAS wrote:Nope defo the opposite, Prince Andrew is the convenient side show to deflect attention away from the long slow death of Johnsons leadership.

He’s a symbol of abusive elitism yes but he doesn’t set or affect policy that determines millions of  lives on a daily basis.

PMs come and go with regular abandon, we've already had 5 this century.

Prince Andrew is part of something immeasurably bigger and of far greater importance, than some meagre PM who may have breached lockdown rules.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Wed 12 Jan 2022, 4:27 pm

Duty281 wrote:
JAS wrote:Nope defo the opposite, Prince Andrew is the convenient side show to deflect attention away from the long slow death of Johnsons leadership.

He’s a symbol of abusive elitism yes but he doesn’t set or affect policy that determines millions of  lives on a daily basis.

PMs come and go with regular abandon, we've already had 5 this century.

Prince Andrew is part of something immeasurably bigger and of far greater importance, than some meagre PM who may have breached lockdown rules.

Do you mean Epstein's gang? Surely you don't mean the Royal family whose existence or otherwise doesn't affect the day to day lives of anyone except those who use it to sell tourism and merchandise.

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Post by beninho Wed 12 Jan 2022, 4:34 pm

I'm not sure what's more surprising.

The government did dodgy deals over people
The PM didn't follow the rules he designed
The Duke of York banged an under age girl, though over age in sone places.


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Post by Duty281 Wed 12 Jan 2022, 5:26 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JAS wrote:Nope defo the opposite, Prince Andrew is the convenient side show to deflect attention away from the long slow death of Johnsons leadership.

He’s a symbol of abusive elitism yes but he doesn’t set or affect policy that determines millions of  lives on a daily basis.

PMs come and go with regular abandon, we've already had 5 this century.

Prince Andrew is part of something immeasurably bigger and of far greater importance, than some meagre PM who may have breached lockdown rules.

Do you mean Epstein's gang? Surely you don't mean the Royal family whose existence or otherwise doesn't affect the day to day lives of anyone except those who use it to sell tourism and merchandise.

It's bigger than that, though Epstein is the tip of the iceberg.

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Post by JAS Wed 12 Jan 2022, 6:56 pm

McLaren wrote:Jas

Do you really think it matters what terrible person they slot into the PM position?

It could be the beginning of the end of the Royal family if one of them goes down for sex crimes.

If the timing of the Queens death, and Charles subsequent early reign, and Andrew getting found guilty (or whatever the civil version is) go against them then the family are in trouble. Or so I hope anyway.  Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread - Page 17 1f64f

The difference is Mac sooner or later (should be every 5 years) WE get a chance to have a say on who the PM should be. We have NO control over whether somebody is a Prince or not or whether they should go to jail or whatever.

That’s also an almighty stack of “what’s ifs” you’re trying to align there. I’ve got no beef against the royal family indeed I quite like Lizzie, I think she’s ultimately a good person and a decent human being. I’d take no pleasure whatsoever in watching her or indeed Charles struggle with the crap that’ll come their way because Andrew’s been a dick. Doesn’t make me a royalist but I’m certainly no Republican either unlike many lefties.

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Post by McLaren Wed 12 Jan 2022, 7:38 pm

JAS wrote: I’ve got no beef against the royal family

Like we hadn't noticed you were a Rangers fan.
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Post by dynamark Wed 12 Jan 2022, 8:07 pm

I tend to think the prince andrew (randy andy) thing is about a compensation settlement US civil action remember. I have it on good authourity that Charles was not shy when much younger also.Royal family may as well have a good time

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Post by beninho Wed 12 Jan 2022, 8:07 pm

McLaren wrote:
JAS wrote: I’ve got no beef against the royal family

Like we hadn't noticed you were a Rangers fan.

The popes o'rangers and Queens celtic?

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Post by Hibbz Wed 12 Jan 2022, 9:57 pm

Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JAS wrote:Nope defo the opposite, Prince Andrew is the convenient side show to deflect attention away from the long slow death of Johnsons leadership.

He’s a symbol of abusive elitism yes but he doesn’t set or affect policy that determines millions of  lives on a daily basis.

PMs come and go with regular abandon, we've already had 5 this century.

Prince Andrew is part of something immeasurably bigger and of far greater importance, than some meagre PM who may have breached lockdown rules.

Do you mean Epstein's gang? Surely you don't mean the Royal family whose existence or otherwise doesn't affect the day to day lives of anyone except those who use it to sell tourism and merchandise.

It's bigger than that, though Epstein is the tip of the iceberg.

You got bummed by the Queen with a strap-on?

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Post by JAS Thu 13 Jan 2022, 7:58 am

McLaren wrote:
JAS wrote: I’ve got no beef against the royal family

Like we hadn't noticed you were a Rangers fan.

Ever heard of Pavlov’s Dog Mac?

Psychology basics aside, you see how easy it is to drift off the key issues of the day?? The fact is a Tory prime minister has been cornered and exposed as a blatant liar and you already moved the conversation on to irrelevant Poopie.

Rather bizarre Peston last night where both the Tory and Labour reps were agreeing he should go. One for the sake of her party the other for the sake of the country. McDonnell of all people was actually quite sensible in saying that although it would be better for Labour if he stayed for the sake of the country he has to go and that’s more important. I wonder to what extent he’d apply the same logic to himself & JC

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Post by dynamark Thu 13 Jan 2022, 11:22 am

McDonnell is a top class plonker- I rest my case re Labour.

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Post by superflyweight Thu 13 Jan 2022, 11:39 am

[Dominic Raab/Michael Fabricant/Mark Francois/Jacob Rees-Mogg/Liz Truss/Nadine Dorries etc. etc.] is a top class plonker. I rest my case re the Conservatives.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 13 Jan 2022, 11:42 am

superflyweight wrote:[Dominic Raab/Michael Fabricant/Mark Francois/Jacob Rees-Mogg/Liz Truss/Nadine Dorries etc. etc.] is a top class plonker.  I rest my case re the Conservatives.  

Francois is the absolute worst and represents the caricature of a Brexit voter. Fabricant I don't mind if only for his eccentricities whilst Rees-Mogg I actually quite like, the others are just meh.

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Post by superflyweight Thu 13 Jan 2022, 11:46 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
superflyweight wrote:[Dominic Raab/Michael Fabricant/Mark Francois/Jacob Rees-Mogg/Liz Truss/Nadine Dorries etc. etc.] is a top class plonker.  I rest my case re the Conservatives.  

Francois is the absolute worst and represents the caricature of a Brexit voter. Fabricant I don't mind if only for his eccentricities whilst Rees-Mogg I actually quite like, the others are just meh.

I was really just highlighting that it's reductive to assess an entire political party based on one idiot.

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Post by JAS Thu 13 Jan 2022, 11:51 am

dynamark wrote:McDonnell is a top class plonker- I rest my case re Labour.

He actually came across as fairly circumspect and sensible last night Dyna which kind of took me aback a bit.

So what is it you actually mean re McDonnell and Labour? Would it be better for the party if he & JC broke away or stayed?

I suppose it all depends, short term pain as the split would be exploited by political opponents but long term Labour would be free of perceived ‘loony lefties’ so longer term wouldn’t it be seen as advantageous?

If they stayed would they fall into the line of collective responsibility? Hardly as they never done so in the Blair years. Having said that I’m not sure how advantageous it is to make a broad church narrower.

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Post by JAS Thu 13 Jan 2022, 11:57 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
superflyweight wrote:[Dominic Raab/Michael Fabricant/Mark Francois/Jacob Rees-Mogg/Liz Truss/Nadine Dorries etc. etc.] is a top class plonker.  I rest my case re the Conservatives.  

Francois is the absolute worst and represents the caricature of a Brexit voter. Fabricant I don't mind if only for his eccentricities whilst Rees-Mogg I actually quite like, the others are just meh.

Call me an old school class warrior but I just scratch my head with incredulity about how any ordinary Joe can find Rees-Mogg even remotely relatable. I’d give him witty to be fair, a strange kind of humour than can occasionally be amusing but there’s an element of that that is only amusing because of how out of touch with ordinary people he actually is.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 13 Jan 2022, 12:47 pm

JAS wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
superflyweight wrote:[Dominic Raab/Michael Fabricant/Mark Francois/Jacob Rees-Mogg/Liz Truss/Nadine Dorries etc. etc.] is a top class plonker.  I rest my case re the Conservatives.  

Francois is the absolute worst and represents the caricature of a Brexit voter. Fabricant I don't mind if only for his eccentricities whilst Rees-Mogg I actually quite like, the others are just meh.

Call me an old school class warrior but I just scratch my head with incredulity about how any ordinary Joe can find Rees-Mogg even remotely relatable. I’d give him witty to be fair, a strange kind of humour than can occasionally be amusing but there’s an element of that that is only amusing because of how out of touch with ordinary people he actually is.

Good job I didn't say I found him relatable then. I don't always agree with JRM but he tends to carry himself with dignity which in the current landscape is rare. I also don't give a toss about the class wars nor do I have to agree with someone to like them, there are plenty of a-holes out there aligned to my way of thinking, should I like them because of that?

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Post by JAS Thu 13 Jan 2022, 12:56 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
JAS wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
superflyweight wrote:[Dominic Raab/Michael Fabricant/Mark Francois/Jacob Rees-Mogg/Liz Truss/Nadine Dorries etc. etc.] is a top class plonker.  I rest my case re the Conservatives.  

Francois is the absolute worst and represents the caricature of a Brexit voter. Fabricant I don't mind if only for his eccentricities whilst Rees-Mogg I actually quite like, the others are just meh.

Call me an old school class warrior but I just scratch my head with incredulity about how any ordinary Joe can find Rees-Mogg even remotely relatable. I’d give him witty to be fair, a strange kind of humour than can occasionally be amusing but there’s an element of that that is only amusing because of how out of touch with ordinary people he actually is.

Good job I didn't say I found him relatable then. I don't always agree with JRM but he tends to carry himself with dignity which in the current landscape is rare. I also don't give a toss about the class wars nor do I have to agree with someone to like them, there are plenty of a-holes out there aligned to my way of thinking, should I like them because of that?

No of course you shouldn’t and to be fair I’m the same, there are some complete pricks on the left that I might agree with a lot of of the time. Just the same as there are Tories who whole I’d broadly disagree with their politics I actually respect their views and consider them decent good likeable people.

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Post by JAS Thu 13 Jan 2022, 1:18 pm

As an aside to the above, I can’t stand Douglas Ross but for JRM to call him a lightweight, whilst obviously amusing in my eyes ain’t right in general. The bloke put his head above the parapet and was honest, only for JRM to ridicule him, not cool. No doubt he’ll get absolute dogs abuse about being a “lightweight” the next time he trots out onto the football pitch with his referees shirt on.

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Post by superflyweight Thu 13 Jan 2022, 1:28 pm

Rees-Mogg calling anyone a lightweight is a bloody cheek.

His entire persona is based on a few words of Latin and the use of cliched literary/historical references and quotations in which he repeatedly demonstrates his lack of understanding of the source material.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Thu 13 Jan 2022, 1:40 pm

superflyweight wrote:Rees-Mogg calling anyone a lightweight is a bloody cheek.  

His entire persona is based on a few words of Latin and the use of cliched literary/historical references and quotations in which he repeatedly demonstrates his lack of understanding of the source material.  

Very fertile though.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by McLaren Thu 13 Jan 2022, 2:38 pm

JAS wrote:
McLaren wrote:
JAS wrote: I’ve got no beef against the royal family

Like we hadn't noticed you were a Rangers fan.

Ever heard of Pavlov’s Dog Mac?

Was it a corgi?
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Post by McLaren Thu 13 Jan 2022, 2:39 pm

Isn't JRM a religious loon?
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Post by dynamark Thu 13 Jan 2022, 5:08 pm

JAS I think McDonnell was happy to tag along with the JC popularity for his own use but overall if labour splits they might as well give up.Im all for a proper opposition and Starmer is probably best bet but it will take some time if the tories just keep jogging along

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Post by beninho Fri 14 Jan 2022, 8:21 am

John Mcdonell is a local mp in the Borough, he does a lot of fighting for his constituents. He seems to be a very good mp.

I just saw a point about the media and its closeness to the government. It seems one of these parties was held for the now deputy editor at the Sun. So that's over a year a major, though rubbish newspaper, was fully aware of the actions taking place yet sat on it.

Mad Dom Cummins has said for ages journalists were at some of the parties. Seems he was probably right.

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Post by JAS Fri 14 Jan 2022, 11:04 am

Must admit it is quite startling seeing where some of the “he must go” is coming from. Oakeshot on QT last night for example, now there’s an ideological right wing journo if ever there was one, Tory to the core and yet there she was in utter condemnation of what was going on. Normally those kind of people defend their own to the hilt even when they know fine well they’re in the wrong. Not this time…which then makes you think…how bad must things actually be (or was it just sour grapes about not being invited to any of the parties, sorry work events…who knows?

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 14 Jan 2022, 11:08 am

JAS wrote:Must admit it is quite startling seeing where some of the “he must go” is coming from. Oakeshot on QT last night for example, now there’s an ideological right wing journo if ever there was one, Tory to the core and yet there she was in utter condemnation of what was going on. Normally those kind of people defend their own to the hilt even when they know fine well they’re in the wrong. Not this time…which then makes you think…how bad must things actually be (or was it just sour grapes about not being invited to any of the parties, sorry work events…who knows?

I've spoken to a few fellow Tory members and we're all in a state of bafflement and anger. I can't decide which is worse, the gatherings or the apparent belief it wouldn't come to the surface eventually.

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Post by JAS Fri 14 Jan 2022, 11:37 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
JAS wrote:Must admit it is quite startling seeing where some of the “he must go” is coming from. Oakeshot on QT last night for example, now there’s an ideological right wing journo if ever there was one, Tory to the core and yet there she was in utter condemnation of what was going on. Normally those kind of people defend their own to the hilt even when they know fine well they’re in the wrong. Not this time…which then makes you think…how bad must things actually be (or was it just sour grapes about not being invited to any of the parties, sorry work events…who knows?

I've spoken to a few fellow Tory members and we're all in a state of bafflement and anger. I can't decide which is worse, the gatherings or the apparent belief it wouldn't come to the surface eventually.

I think the latter in the eyes of the public is far more damaging Soul. Everybody makes mistakes, it’s part of life. Trying to cover up or hide mistakes is far more reprehensible as it’s premeditated deception. Just my humble opinion, I could be wrong that a significant proportion of the public see it that way.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Fri 14 Jan 2022, 11:47 am

I don't understand why any Tory members would be baffled by Bojo & Co's behaviour. Surely it's not that surprising.

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Post by beninho Fri 14 Jan 2022, 11:58 am

Boris got the gig as a palatable face to push through stiff for the ERG, and he had them on his side. He was able to make people think he was not the establishment, and was more appealing to the overall voters, then say Patel or Raab or Francois or The high Wycombe guy.

He's done his bit, brexit is sort of done, but will never be fully done, and he's pushed s few things through and hot a massive majority. Now, he's doing things they don't like, with vaccine passports etc, this is now coming out in the press, ready to move in the next right winger with decent ratings I Rishi. Though unsure if he will play to the masses in the same way.

Truss may want it, but she's a remainder at heart, and not sure they are ready for that again!

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Post by McLaren Fri 14 Jan 2022, 2:20 pm

Soul Requiem wrote: I can't decide which is worse, the gatherings or the apparent belief it wouldn't come to the surface eventually.

Neither. It was the treatment of a Queen in mourning.
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Post by dynamark Fri 14 Jan 2022, 4:34 pm

Its all pretty poor behavior from the ones who organised and the ones who attended knowing they were well out of order.It seems the heady atmosphere and adrenalin of no 10 gets into people.Ilm all for enthusiasm and dedication to the cause but there are plenty who should be off down the road and apologising to Boris and ministers for their actions -including senior civil servants,

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Post by beninho Sun 16 Jan 2022, 12:12 pm

Johnson trying to save his job by giving Williamson a knighthood.

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Post by JAS Tue 18 Jan 2022, 12:44 pm

beninho wrote:Johnson trying to save his job by giving Williamson a knighthood.

You know someone must REALLY be in trouble if they’re attempting to “buy” Williamsons silence with a knighthood thinking it will work. Absolutely priceless if true, I can just imagine everyone involved in education in this country will be utterly thrilled at that incompetent goon being addressed as Sir

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Post by beninho Tue 18 Jan 2022, 6:46 pm

https://twitter.com/sfinn80/status/1483398676118712321?t=gMoXcSnLC4HPiBdHA0L4yw&s=19

Cranks everywhere!

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 18 Jan 2022, 7:14 pm

beninho wrote:https://twitter.com/sfinn80/status/1483398676118712321?t=gMoXcSnLC4HPiBdHA0L4yw&s=19

Cranks everywhere!

Good old Maidstone, needless to say these nutcases are routinely laughed at. Some of them have an association with Tobe Hayden Leigh, the 'star' of an even more disturbing video.

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Post by JAS Yesterday at 12:47 pm

Fairly low key PMQs then, starts with a defection and ends with a former cabinet minister on the PMs own side saying “ In the name of God Go now!!”

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Post by BamBam Yesterday at 1:04 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:

I've spoken to a few fellow Tory members and we're all in a state of bafflement and anger. I can't decide which is worse, the gatherings or the apparent belief it wouldn't come to the surface eventually.

laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

Were the other fellow Tory members also bootlicking Johnson at every opportunity or is that something you particularly excelled at?

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Post by Duty281 Yesterday at 1:11 pm

BamBam wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:

I've spoken to a few fellow Tory members and we're all in a state of bafflement and anger. I can't decide which is worse, the gatherings or the apparent belief it wouldn't come to the surface eventually.

laughing  laughing  laughing  laughing  laughing  laughing  laughing  laughing  laughing  laughing  laughing  laughing  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh

Were the other fellow Tory members also bootlicking Johnson at every opportunity or is that something you particularly excelled at?

Why do you have such a strange obsession with bootlicking?

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