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Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Wed 22 Dec 2021, 3:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

JDizzle wrote:James Bracey? Admittedly looked painfully bad vs NZ in the summer, but if we are wanting to give guys a chance then he shouldn’t be forgotten about so quickly. Especially as he was batting out of position. Better FC record than Hameed and made a half century for the Lions in Aus in 2020 and a ton this time. But he was flown home because English scoring runs just isn’t on!


Fair. Had forgotten about him actually and he was thrown a suicide pass in the summer against the best test team in the world. He probably does deserve another shot in the near future.

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Post by alfie Sun 26 Dec 2021, 7:29 am

Harris cops a nasty blow on the finger which has blood showing and the medical staff on...he looks in a bit of trouble.

On the good side for Australia this delay will mean this is going to be the last over of the day.

Harris batting on anyway. Five balls left now...

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Post by alfie Sun 26 Dec 2021, 7:34 am

Last ball of the day sums up the contrasting fortunes...beaten , edged ...but runs just wide of slips for four Smile

61/1 and the Aussies should sleep well overnight. Have dominated things again... Well played thumbsup

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Post by KP_fan Sun 26 Dec 2021, 8:14 am

Another abysmal performance from Eng
When you are down luck also deserts you and so they lost the toss and got thr worst of batting conditions .

ENG' s selections continue to be baffling . How can yiu keep Broad out when his height and round the wicket angle is best suited to trouble left handed Aussies on bouncy pitches
And Woakes gives you 30 runs with the bat being no less than others as a seamer

Being shot for 185 has probably closed the main door for Eng but in tight games selection of perfect 11 matters.

Lyon picking 3 Fer on D1 seaming pitch is a sign how Aus was on top and Eng down mentally ....the hoik from Butler to hold out a case in point

Hameed will be playing for his career in the 2nd inning .....though batting will be far easier by D3 when Eng bat again, Lyon being the most potent by then I think.
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Post by Lowlandbrit Sun 26 Dec 2021, 8:38 am

KP_fan wrote:ENG' s selections continue to be baffling
Made all the worse and more annoying by all the claims that there's some sort of plan in place.

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Post by alfie Sun 26 Dec 2021, 8:40 am

KP_fan wrote:Another abysmal performance  from Eng
When you are down luck also deserts you and so they lost the toss and got thr worst of batting conditions .

ENG' s selections continue to be baffling . How can yiu keep Broad out when his height and round the wicket angle is best suited to trouble left handed Aussies on bouncy pitches ?
And Woakes gives you 30 runs with the bat being no less than others as a seamer

Being shot for 185 has probably closed the main door for Eng but in tight games selection of perfect 11 matters.

Lyon picking 3 Fer on D1 seaming pitch is a sign how Aus was on top and Eng down mentally ....the hoik  from Butler to hold out a case in point

Hameed will be playing for his  career in the 2nd inning .....though batting will be far easier by D3 when Eng bat again, Lyon being the most potent by then I think.

I can't fathom the treatment of Broad. Thought he was England's best bowler in Adelaide , though he didn't get the rewards. Would have reckoned that game had warmed him up nicely for this . But then again , I would have played him in Brisbane.

Does Silverwood think he's not got it any more ? Who knows what Silverwood thinks...

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Post by Duty281 Sun 26 Dec 2021, 8:59 am

Same old story, ultimately. The ones who can't make runs continue to not score runs. The one who can make runs cannot make a mammoth contribution, instead getting out between 50 and before 100 again.

Australia bowled tremendously as a unit, Cummins leading the attack. Then England bowled too short, without intensity and as individuals. Only Wood can hold his head up justifiably.

This test is all over on day one. We'll see Smith, Labuschagne and Head take the game beyond England tomorrow, and I've still got a feeling Harris will ton up.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 26 Dec 2021, 9:38 am

How utterly predictable, thoroughly uncompetitive and completely dull this series has been, and continues to be

Like watching the cricketing equivalent of Man City smash Burnley 5-0 at home. Yawn
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Post by king_carlos Sun 26 Dec 2021, 9:56 am

At least England have been consistent...

This series is headed for Root stepping down from the captaincy, Silverwood jumping before he's pushed and quite a few of the squad being seen in Tests for the last time.

A dire batting lineup, poor spinners and a bowling attack in no way suited to Australian conditions.

I'd probably say that 13/14 series was more disappointing as England had a much better batting lineup that crumbled. This has been more frustrating to watch though as whilst the Australians have bowled very well there hasn't been that Mitchell Johnson type career defining series blowing batsman away. The Cummins led attack have realised, unsurprisingly, that if they put the ball in a good area at decent pace most of these batsman will do the rest for them.

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Post by GSC Sun 26 Dec 2021, 9:57 am

I agree to an extent, but we don't need to be churlish about it. England have been crap but we've been on the other side of these one sided series without similar sentiments being thrown
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Post by Duty281 Sun 26 Dec 2021, 10:37 am

Yes, 13/14 was much more disappointing than this. 13/14 was a strong side on paper that ultimately fell apart just months after beating Australia 3-0 at home, and it was the end of a beautiful era of English test cricket that had seen England rise to number one and win test series' in India and Australia. Magnificent stuff.

This current bunch...we expected nothing and have got nothing.

I do think Root will resign the captaincy at the end of this series and Silverwood will go very soon. I wouldn't be surprised if Broad retired as, though he has personal milestones to keep going for, it looks as though he's being gradually phased out of the side. Anderson could also retire, this is the end of another cycle, he may not have enough in the tank for many more series. One more home summer?

I'd like to say that this series should be the end of x batsman or y batsman, but England's options are so limited in the top order that it's difficult to make a definitive judgement. If Stokes retired from tests to focus on limited-overs cricket, it would be a shattering blow but understandable.

I've said it before, but I'll reiterate it again - England are on course to hit the foot of test cricket. If changes are not made to domestic cricket very soon then there is no stopping England from declining to the level of Zimbabwe and Ireland by the end of this decade. At the moment it's just Root holding up one end. Root has had the most amazing year of any test batsman in the history of tests. It is the greatest accomplishment any test batsman has ever achieved in the modern era. When he retires from tests England will have nothing left in the batting department.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sun 26 Dec 2021, 10:42 am

GSC wrote:I agree to an extent, but we don't need to be churlish about it. England have been crap but we've been on the other side of these one sided series without similar sentiments being thrown

A couple of series against India are all I can think of in recent memory. Even at home England don't tend to blow teams away.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 26 Dec 2021, 11:40 am

Duty281 wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Broad retired as, though he has personal milestones to keep going for, it looks as though he's being gradually phased out of the side. Anderson could also retire, this is the end of another cycle, he may not have enough in the tank for many more series. One more home summer?

I'd like to say that this series should be the end of x batsman or y batsman, but England's options are so limited in the top order that it's difficult to make a definitive judgement. If Stokes retired from tests to focus on limited-overs cricket, it would be a shattering blow but understandable.
I can see Broad and Anderson doing at least another home summer. I think both can still offer a huge amount in the right conditions. At this stage their bodies need managing more like a pace bowler than a seamer and they a more reliant on conditions. They aren't in the Leach or Woakes bracket of being condition reliant, but far more than they once were.

Where I feel Jimmy and Broad differ now is their ability to be a holding bowler in tough conditions. I think Anderson still seems to be able to dry up runs excellently in tougher conditions whilst still threatening the batsman a bit. Developing such a accurate wobble seam delivery early on has helped Jimmy a lot there. Whereas more recently it's felt like Broad can either bowl threateningly or bowl dry with little between the two.

Of the tried and discarded batsman Ben Duckett is one who I rated when I saw him early. He was discarded after being Ashwin-ed. As a left-hander facing statistically the best bowler to lefties that cricket has seen I felt he deserved more chances.

Nick Browne's form fell off a cliff at just the wrong time as Essex teammate Cook retired. He was averaging comfortably over 40 for a long while if I remember correctly.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 26 Dec 2021, 11:42 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
GSC wrote:I agree to an extent, but we don't need to be churlish about it. England have been crap but we've been on the other side of these one sided series without similar sentiments being thrown

A couple of series against India are all I can think of in recent memory. Even at home England don't tend to blow teams away.
During that series there was a lot of talk of changes in leadership and personnel for India as well to be fair.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 26 Dec 2021, 11:49 am

If Root resigns , who will replace him?
Stokes obvious, but has had mental.issues. What if there is a recurrence? Captaincy increases stress by an  order of magnitude
But if not Stokes, then I do not see anyone even assuredly holding a place in 11
Broad's time had come and gone and he wasn't even made VC
Hence Root will stay on
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Post by msp83 Sun 26 Dec 2021, 12:05 pm

So yet another terrible day for England. Root and Stokes got starts without going on, Bairstow did his average and not beyond. Shocker from Buttler, usual for Crawley, and Malan and Hameed not doing much either.
Robinson looked better with bat than ball, and before that Warner wicket, Australia seemed on course to completely own the day.

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Post by GSC Sun 26 Dec 2021, 12:14 pm

Probably be Butter if not Stokes I guess?
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Post by king_carlos Sun 26 Dec 2021, 12:20 pm

My wonder with the captaincy is if Root will still want it rather than a new coach (presumably anyway!) opting replacing him.

Whilst I don't think Root is a strong captain I do think the influence of captaincy in Test cricket is often overstated when a poor group of players perform predictably badly. It's an easy soundbite for former players turned lazy pundits to lob out so they can put even less thought into their copy and paste ghost written columns.

I could see Root deciding to step back from that spotlight, concentrate on his batting and potentially look to fulfill his potential as a T20 player as well. As an anchor type batsman at 3 and part time spinner he could be a fantastic T20 player.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 26 Dec 2021, 12:24 pm

GSC wrote:Probably be Butter if not Stokes I guess?
I'd be very surprised if Buttler continued in Tests. After 55 Tests it's clear it isn't coming off for him regularly enough with the bat and he frankly looks absolutely exhausted from the bubbles etc.

That's if he's selected as well. I could see a new coach wanting a clean break and go with Foakes as a more specialist gloveman.

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Post by Gooseberry Sun 26 Dec 2021, 12:30 pm

The issue with both stokes and butter is rather they are 3 format players and in line to replace Morgan. Regardless of any specific issues with Stokes and for the foreseeable future with bubbles  they won't be able to commit to rhe full test schedule. There's another world Cup in less than a year do white balls not going to take the back seat.

Both have dual roles in the team already, buttlers not exactly demanding automatic selection, stokes has mental and physical health issues associated with overplaying.

I really don't think they will want to see Root resign, if he does it will put even more focus and pressure on Silverwood and the selectors as the problem (or part of). I can only imagine they'd have to go for a temporary solution of having a series by series test captain rotating between the senior players.

Burns was the nearest thing they had to a solution but his loss of form and dropping behind even Hameed of all people put paid to that. Broad could cover for the summer whilst they assess options, Anderson you have to assume retires at some point and can't be relied on for a full series if he doesn't.

No-one else actually deserves a place in the side. So the captaincy maybe doesn't matter if Roots just going to be playing with himself anyway.

As habing the captaincy isn't affecting his personal form too much I'd really expect the pressure to be on him to stay in the job whilst they tried to rebuild a squad rather than quitting.

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Post by guildfordbat Sun 26 Dec 2021, 12:47 pm

Oh dear, here we go again! Watched the opening session live and now watched extended highlights of the last two.

Plus points for England supporters at home -
1. The commentary. So, so good not to be hearing Warne say, ''I tell you what, Skull'' and then repeat what he has already told him.
2. I got a super book yesterday about the Bodyline Series - well, that was a plus point for this England supporter at his home.

Some other random comments and rants -

* Top bowling by Australia working as a unit and being spearheaded by the excellent Cummins.

* Although my man Starc seemed not to have his radar fully functioning and was too legside at times, his pace was still hot enough to account for Root (poor batting) and Bairstow (completely done up).

* Incredibly valuable to have a fourth seamer like Green. Conceded just 7 runs in as many overs and then a wicket maiden to finish off. Plus it seems he can catch peregrine falcons with his bare hands!

* Whilst I rate Lyon highly, some of my (not normally entirely stupid) friends regard him as an ordinary but lucky bowler. Trott in the BT studio gave a thoughtful and effective counter to their view as he praised Lyon for his field settings to snare his victims.

* I can only agree with Duty that this Test is already gone - ok, being a more cautious individual, I'll backtrack and say virtually gone We should get the unnecessary night watchman early in the first session to give us a lift (bonus point to Alfie for his comment) but we'll need 8 more wickets by tea to be back in this one.

* Fair to say, you don't win many Tests in Australia being skittled for 185. Seven of the dismissed batters made it to double figures but only two went beyond 25 and no one exceeded 50. Not good enough! I once had a chat with Alec Stewart (another one for your bingo card, Olly Wink ) in which I praised a Surrey squad player making 80 odd in a rare first team outing. Stewie didn't rubbish the effort but emphasised that having got as many as he did, it was important for him and the team to go on further. Pretty sure Root's 50 wouldn't have cut it for Stewie!

* Like Alfie and Olly, I would have had Broad in my England team for at least two of the Tests so far. We do seem in a rush to bench him which I don't understand. Possibly we'll see him more if Silverwood gets the chop as looks more than possible.

* Not sure I would have chosen Leach here after his mauling in the first Test but having done so, I would have looked to give him a couple of overs today.

* In line with Duty's comments today and mine going into Christmas Eve, changes are definitely needed at domestic level. Very valid comments from Steve Harmison - a pundit praised by our own King Carlos - about scheduling, ''Our red ball cricket is suffering, we need to start playing it [the County Championship] at the right time of year again. That's the only way we can give Joe and the England team the best chance to compete.''

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Post by Duty281 Sun 26 Dec 2021, 8:02 pm

Will be a very tough day for England in the field. The ball is already 16 overs old, so will soon reach the stage where it is difficult for England's fast bowlers to operate effectively, and I wager batting will be easier today and tomorrow than it was on day one. Plus England's self belief must soon be hitting rock bottom. It is a most lamentable state of affairs.

It's a big day for Jack Leach. We saw some turn and success for Lyon yesterday (3/36), Leach has been backed and has a good opportunity to underline his credentials as England's number one spinner. But if he struggles it'll open the door for Dom Bess and relegate Leach to a bystander...actually that may not be relegation.

I reckon Australia will finish up with around 450 just before lunch on day three and it'll likely be an innings defeat for the beleaguered visitors. England's only hope is a cliched big first hour, where they rock Australia with a few haymakers early on, thereby imbibing England with the self-belief and courage necessary to fight on for ever and ever and ever (or, at least, until they bat again).

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Post by KP_fan Sun 26 Dec 2021, 8:54 pm

Duty281 wrote:Will be a very tough day for England in the field. The ball is already 16 overs old, so will soon reach the stage where it is difficult for England's fast bowlers to operate effectively, and I wager batting will be easier today and tomorrow than it was on day one. Plus England's self belief must soon be hitting rock bottom. It is a most lamentable state of affairs.

It's a big day for Jack Leach. We saw some turn and success for Lyon yesterday (3/36), Leach has been backed and has a good opportunity to underline his credentials as England's number one spinner. But if he struggles it'll open the door for Dom Bess and relegate Leach to a bystander...actually that may not be relegation.

I reckon Australia will finish up with around 450 just before lunch on day three and it'll likely be an innings defeat for the beleaguered visitors. England's only hope is a cliched big first hour, where they rock Australia with a few haymakers early on, thereby imbibing England with the self-belief and courage necessary to fight on for ever and ever and ever (or, at least, until they bat again).

yes someone needs to deliver a few high energy sparks of magic and take 2 wickets in the first hour and 4 in the session
I see that spark coming from Stokes with his extra energy, Wood with his express pace & from Leach with spin...if Lyon can, then Leach should be able to extract something with his fingers by 2nd hour tomm
Tomm is the mid-point of the series & Eng needs to throw all they have and show some fight
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Post by JDizzle Sun 26 Dec 2021, 9:37 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
* In line with Duty's comments today and mine going into Christmas Eve, changes are definitely needed at domestic level. Very valid comments from Steve Harmison - a pundit praised by our own King Carlos - about scheduling, ''Our red ball cricket is suffering, we need to start playing it [the County Championship] at the right time of year again. That's the only way we can give Joe and the England team the best chance to compete.''

I've seen this mentioned a few times, and whilst it can't hurt I don't see this being the silver bullet that turns around England's batting woes.

Only singling out Pope and Burns as they play on the best (sometimes too good!) pitch in the country, and have both averaged big numbers in the County Championship but have not come close to replicating those numbers in the Test arena. We've seen other guys who have come from Test match counties, who tend to have the flattest pitches, in Sibley and Bairstow who have dominated the CC come in and been exposed at Test level - which suggests there is something else at play which is stopping us developing Test batters.

If we move more CC fixtures to the summer months, the pitches will inevitably be better and maybe we will see more guys averaging more. But does that help? Does that stop Crawley playing with an angled bat or Pope misjudging the length with spinners?

Interesting article on Cricbuzz (https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/120396/englands-test-batting-at-rock-bottom-with-deep-rooted-issues) with quotes from Paul Farbrace where he basically fires both barrels at the ECB and their junior coaching about not having either the ability or confidence to adjust players technique or are happy to just to let players carry on if it is working at junior levels. It seems like a bit of a cop out to me - there is a difference between completely changing someone like Rory Burns technique, which I don't think they should do at all, to just adjusting Crawley's slightly. Questions do have to be asked if that was never spotted at any stage of his development. I know he didn't play Eng U19s, but it shouldn't need international coaches to spot it!

I do think the coaching matter is probably far more integral to England's current batting woes that when the CC is played - and if that is the case, then it will take a good few years to put it right again.

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Post by JDizzle Sun 26 Dec 2021, 9:39 pm

As for the game tonight, I would open with Anderson and Robinson - hoping to nab Lyon and Harris in first 4 overs. If that happens, then unleash Wood straight away at Labu and Smith and hope we can get into them.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 26 Dec 2021, 10:06 pm

GSC wrote:I agree to an extent, but we don't need to be churlish about it. England have been crap but we've been on the other side of these one sided series without similar sentiments being thrown

I think I've been pretty consistent in pointing out that totally uncompetitive test cricket is boring and not entertaining, no matter who is playing thumbsup
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 26 Dec 2021, 10:12 pm

JDizzle wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
* In line with Duty's comments today and mine going into Christmas Eve, changes are definitely needed at domestic level. Very valid comments from Steve Harmison - a pundit praised by our own King Carlos - about scheduling, ''Our red ball cricket is suffering, we need to start playing it [the County Championship] at the right time of year again. That's the only way we can give Joe and the England team the best chance to compete.''

I've seen this mentioned a few times, and whilst it can't hurt I don't see this being the silver bullet that turns around England's batting woes.

Only singling out Pope and Burns as they play on the best (sometimes too good!) pitch in the country, and have both averaged big numbers in the County Championship but have not come close to replicating those numbers in the Test arena. We've seen other guys who have come from Test match counties, who tend to have the flattest pitches, in Sibley and Bairstow who have dominated the CC come in and been exposed at Test level - which suggests there is something else at play which is stopping us developing Test batters.

If we move more CC fixtures to the summer months, the pitches will inevitably be better and maybe we will see more guys averaging more. But does that help? Does that stop Crawley playing with an angled bat or Pope misjudging the length with spinners?

Interesting article on Cricbuzz (https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/120396/englands-test-batting-at-rock-bottom-with-deep-rooted-issues) with quotes from Paul Farbrace where he basically fires both barrels at the ECB and their junior coaching about not having either the ability or confidence to adjust players technique or are happy to just to let players carry on if it is working at junior levels. It seems like a bit of a cop out to me - there is a difference between completely changing someone like Rory Burns technique, which I don't think they should do at all, to just adjusting Crawley's slightly. Questions do have to be asked if that was never spotted at any stage of his development. I know he didn't play Eng U19s, but it shouldn't need international coaches to spot it!

I do think the coaching matter is probably far more integral to England's current batting woes that when the CC is played - and if that is the case, then it will take a good few years to put it right again.

You've put it far more articulately than me JDizzle - the idea that moving Glamorgan vs Leicestershire and Derbyshire vs Durham from mid May to mid July means we'll suddenly be churning out test bats is...bizarre to me personally. (that's ignoring that the majority of counties would rather the money making t20 blast not being booted from the best weather period)

The whole county system really needs an overhaul - but feels like that's just going to happen by it dying naturally, rather than the ECB taking a proactive approach to it all.

The point about coaching is pertinent...another huge point is the lack of cricket/cricketers in state schools. You basically go to private school, are lucky enough to be invested in by a county or don't make it. Again another big picture thing that ECB isn't likely to do anything major about...

Alas for the game, we'll pickup an early wicket or two, then settle in for a Smith/Labuschagne hundred and a first innings deficit probably way over 200 runs. Just playing out the string at this point already
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Post by Gooseberry Sun 26 Dec 2021, 10:22 pm

JDizzle wrote:As for the game tonight, I would open with Anderson and Robinson

Cant be any worse than Hameed and Crawley

(Burns and Sibley like this post)


More seriously on the CC issue; the decline started a long time ago. The quality of the CC isnt just about the time games are played its the quality and intensity of them. The current format makes it even worse, going back to two divisions next year at least means less mismatches and the best teams playing each other more often but 10 team division one wont help drive up quality. theres just too many counties diluting the talent and lowering the standard. Aus have a bigger stable of test class players coming from just 6 state teams playing a competitive intense tournament. England cant find a test quick, spinner or opener from 16 first class sides

Bringing the balls in line with the international standard might help develop bowlers that can cope overseas too.

Funding better coaching will be tight for the next few years whilst they still try to rebalance the covid finances, but it must be part of the picture at all levels not just juniors.

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Post by GSC Sun 26 Dec 2021, 10:27 pm

Someone in England's travelling party tested positive for COVID so they're all quarantined undergoing rapid testing atm
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Post by JDizzle Sun 26 Dec 2021, 10:30 pm

Not sure if it is state restrictions or whatever, but Cummins missed the last Test because someone in the same restaurant tested positive. At the very least the player whose family it is can’t play surely? If they were in the 11 I guess.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 26 Dec 2021, 10:47 pm

The all-clear has been given and England will take to the field with the same XI.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 26 Dec 2021, 10:47 pm

Cancel the tour...


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Post by GSC Sun 26 Dec 2021, 10:55 pm

Bad news, play will go ahead
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 26 Dec 2021, 11:11 pm

Duty281 wrote:The all-clear has been given and England will take to the field with the same XI.

England’s inability to catch comes back to hurt them again
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Post by alfie Sun 26 Dec 2021, 11:21 pm

Ha . A cynic might suggest it is a pity they all didn't test positive as a good excuse to cancel the match...

But in truth it is one more distraction that they probably didn't need before the battle they face this morning to get back into the game. For all their faults , I think it is fair to say this group have had to put up with a few more issues than most past Ashes tourists - from the whole Covid bubble concerns through to a ridiculous (lack of) preparation further ruined by weather. But at least they didn't have a long sea voyage to get there in the first place Smile

As to the game itself I am still holding on to hopes the bowlers can hit back today and at least keep a live the possibility of a second innings fightback . Not predicting it , mind ; but hoping. Look we have all known for a fair while they aren't coming home with the urn : what we want surely is a bit of fight - which to date they've only shown in short bursts over single sessions. Even losing , players can earn respect for pushing back against a superior opponent rather than just meekly accepting defeat. Past time for these fellows , as a group , to earn some...

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Post by JDizzle Sun 26 Dec 2021, 11:57 pm

According to Dobell it is 4 positive Tests - 2 support staff and 2 family. Would be surprised if that is it given it was Xmas two days ago!

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Post by Duty281 Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:02 am

It would be peak England if they mustered a thrilling fightback - Australia 130ao, England 140/2 in the second innings at stumps...then the test gets called off overnight due to positive Covid tests.

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Post by JDizzle Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:05 am

Gower and Chappell slating the decision not to open with Wood. Ignoring how he can’t bowl for 18 minutes. Bring back Warne.

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Post by alfie Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:08 am



Noted guidford's comment above about the commentary you fellows are receiving : I am still hearing Warne - and "skull" - with the added bonus of a bit of Michael Vaughan...

But it is pleasantly warm and quite sunny here so I'm ahead on points Smile

Ah well...on with the action. And it seems Lyon's role this morning will be to attack : makes sense. A few fours early on , with the slim total England are defending , can be useful. At least seeing his short slow warm up ball whacked over mid wicket might get Robinson to show a bit of energy... It had better.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:15 am

Night watchman gone inside 15 minutes. All already said.

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Post by alfie Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:16 am

A pity Wood isn't able to bowl for this first 20 minutes ...Lyon has been squared up a bit by a few lifters from even the less pacey bowlers.

And he's gone now. Useful ten runs. England don't look too excited: it's a start but the real work comes now as Marnus arrives...

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:20 am

JDizzle wrote:Gower and Chappell slating the decision not to open with Wood. Ignoring how he can’t bowl for 18 minutes. Bring back Warne.

Yes, that was sloppy but they get points back for praising Illingworth's common sense and nous. In my top 3 of Test captains I've seen. Alfie?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:23 am

Day 2 and BT still haven’t worked out how to sync up the pictures and comms…
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Post by guildfordbat Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:33 am

JDizzle wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
* In line with Duty's comments today and mine going into Christmas Eve, changes are definitely needed at domestic level. Very valid comments from Steve Harmison - a pundit praised by our own King Carlos - about scheduling, ''Our red ball cricket is suffering, we need to start playing it [the County Championship] at the right time of year again. That's the only way we can give Joe and the England team the best chance to compete.''

I've seen this mentioned a few times, and whilst it can't hurt I don't see this being the silver bullet that turns around England's batting woes.

Only singling out Pope and Burns as they play on the best (sometimes too good!) pitch in the country, and have both averaged big numbers in the County Championship but have not come close to replicating those numbers in the Test arena. We've seen other guys who have come from Test match counties, who tend to have the flattest pitches, in Sibley and Bairstow who have dominated the CC come in and been exposed at Test level - which suggests there is something else at play which is stopping us developing Test batters.

If we move more CC fixtures to the summer months, the pitches will inevitably be better and maybe we will see more guys averaging more. But does that help? Does that stop Crawley playing with an angled bat or Pope misjudging the length with spinners?

Interesting article on Cricbuzz (https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/120396/englands-test-batting-at-rock-bottom-with-deep-rooted-issues) with quotes from Paul Farbrace where he basically fires both barrels at the ECB and their junior coaching about not having either the ability or confidence to adjust players technique or are happy to just to let players carry on if it is working at junior levels. It seems like a bit of a cop out to me - there is a difference between completely changing someone like Rory Burns technique, which I don't think they should do at all, to just adjusting Crawley's slightly. Questions do have to be asked if that was never spotted at any stage of his development. I know he didn't play Eng U19s, but it shouldn't need international coaches to spot it!

I do think the coaching matter is probably far more integral to England's current batting woes that when the CC is played - and if that is the case, then it will take a good few years to put it right again.

Hi JD - scheduling isn't a silver bullet but one of the issues to be seriously looked at. My first post on this is on page 1 (12:14 am, Christmas Eve) and was flagging the importance imo of not cramming so much of Championship cricket into April and September if we are to develop Test match spin bowlers for England.

Btw, in that first post I was also very critical of ''too good'' pitches which is actually a contradiction in terms.

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Post by alfie Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:35 am

Bit of a worry that Harris is still there on 27. He's not exactly middled everything ; but the edges have gone to ground , he's defended well enough , and picked off a few on his pads. Having been the "weakest link" in the first two games , the last thing England need is for him to get the century Duty has been predicting...

England are looking to bowl straighter today it seems. Make them play...but with no real movement apparent it might still require a funny bounce or a batting error to get a result. Couple of maidens at least...and here is Wood now.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:36 am

By the end of the day, do England have more wickets or positive Covid tests?
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Post by JDizzle Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:39 am

If they knock Smith over early I might actually have to make it to the afternoon session for a change, despite knowing it is foolhardy.

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Post by alfie Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:39 am

Gets Marnus Yahoo

Pace and bounce...and Root didn't miss that ! OK that is what was needed to kindle a spark... Important period now with Smith coming in.

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Post by JDizzle Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:47 am

guildfordbat wrote:
JDizzle wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
* In line with Duty's comments today and mine going into Christmas Eve, changes are definitely needed at domestic level. Very valid comments from Steve Harmison - a pundit praised by our own King Carlos - about scheduling, ''Our red ball cricket is suffering, we need to start playing it [the County Championship] at the right time of year again. That's the only way we can give Joe and the England team the best chance to compete.''

I've seen this mentioned a few times, and whilst it can't hurt I don't see this being the silver bullet that turns around England's batting woes.

Only singling out Pope and Burns as they play on the best (sometimes too good!) pitch in the country, and have both averaged big numbers in the County Championship but have not come close to replicating those numbers in the Test arena. We've seen other guys who have come from Test match counties, who tend to have the flattest pitches, in Sibley and Bairstow who have dominated the CC come in and been exposed at Test level - which suggests there is something else at play which is stopping us developing Test batters.

If we move more CC fixtures to the summer months, the pitches will inevitably be better and maybe we will see more guys averaging more. But does that help? Does that stop Crawley playing with an angled bat or Pope misjudging the length with spinners?

Interesting article on Cricbuzz (https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/120396/englands-test-batting-at-rock-bottom-with-deep-rooted-issues) with quotes from Paul Farbrace where he basically fires both barrels at the ECB and their junior coaching about not having either the ability or confidence to adjust players technique or are happy to just to let players carry on if it is working at junior levels. It seems like a bit of a cop out to me - there is a difference between completely changing someone like Rory Burns technique, which I don't think they should do at all, to just adjusting Crawley's slightly. Questions do have to be asked if that was never spotted at any stage of his development. I know he didn't play Eng U19s, but it shouldn't need international coaches to spot it!

I do think the coaching matter is probably far more integral to England's current batting woes that when the CC is played - and if that is the case, then it will take a good few years to put it right again.

Hi JD - scheduling isn't a silver bullet but one of the issues to be seriously looked at. My first post on this is on page 1 (12:14 am, Christmas Eve) and was flagging the importance imo of not cramming so much of Championship cricket into April and September if we are to develop Test match spin bowlers for England.

Btw, in that first post I was also very critical of ''too good'' pitches which is actually  a contradiction in terms.

I agree on spinners - I was coming at almost entirely from the batting angle about the schedule. I will save some other thoughts for the blank time when I suspect the last two tests would have been!

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Post by alfie Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:48 am

guildfordbat wrote:
JDizzle wrote:Gower and Chappell slating the decision not to open with Wood. Ignoring how he can’t bowl for 18 minutes. Bring back Warne.

Yes, that was sloppy but they get points back for praising Illingworth's common sense and nous. In my top 3 of Test captains I've seen. Alfie?

Illingworth definitely up there as a skipper. Of England captains I've seen I'd rate him probably second to Mike Brearley - I was a little too young to get a look at Hutton Smile

Didn't rate him so much as a manager though. Felt he was never quite happy to be the background man and tried to dominate the on field stuff to much - which really didn't help Atherton. But as a captain - terrific. Especially taking on Australia in their own home...would be handy now !

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Post by alfie Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:54 am

Ouch ! Smith inside edges Anderson - who is getting some movement now . Narrowly misses the stumps , Buttler gets a glove to it but can't hold on to what would have been a fantastic catch...

Still a bit of luck going the home team's way , even if not for Marnus today.

Terrific over that from Jimmy. Need some more of that.

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