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Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

JDizzle wrote:James Bracey? Admittedly looked painfully bad vs NZ in the summer, but if we are wanting to give guys a chance then he shouldn’t be forgotten about so quickly. Especially as he was batting out of position. Better FC record than Hameed and made a half century for the Lions in Aus in 2020 and a ton this time. But he was flown home because English scoring runs just isn’t on!


Fair. Had forgotten about him actually and he was thrown a suicide pass in the summer against the best test team in the world. He probably does deserve another shot in the near future.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Pal Joey Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:49 pm

Woakes' luck eventually runs out. The faintest of edges. Good call for review from Cummins.
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Post by alfie Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:58 pm

Folding up quite quickly now...and all out 188.  Late swinging from Wood and Woakes but this will be a procession from here...

Woakes top score . Again. Batsmen hang your heads...

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Post by guildfordbat Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:02 pm

Hi Joey and all - Cummins and Starc sweep up. Just too good for England. Hardly allow pretender Boland to get in on the act this time. Wink

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Post by alfie Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:09 pm

Great catch Pope ! Broad has his bunny Warner for a pair...

Maybe he'll bowl them out for 60 ?

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Post by alfie Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:11 pm

Pal Joey wrote:Woakes' luck eventually runs out. The faintest of edges. Good call for review from Cummins.

Cummins way better than Tim Paine at referrals ! Low bar though Smile

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Post by guildfordbat Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:14 pm

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I'm not sure what Root should have told the bowlers to be doing differently today?

It's not his fault Wood was literally unusable when trying anything resembling a "pitch it up" strategy, going at 8 and 9 an over, when already down one bowler in Robinson. And then Woakes being as ineffective as ever overseas.

He's got plenty of deserved flak this tour, but he's done pretty ok with the rough hand dealt to him today by his team. He can't do everything for everyone!

Sorry , Olly : I don't mean to be a Root basher. Agree he's been dealt an unplayable hand.. But he just seems to me to fail to change strategy when it is needed , on a regular basis.
Yesterday Head was hammering anything remotely full and wide thorough covers with ease. Wood is adept at digging balls into the ribs - and wider , the way he's got Labuschagne three times. Just because Robinson and Broad had profited from full balls didn't mean Wood had to try the same trick , did it ? They just seem to me to
get locked in to a plan and don't change it for circumstances - and this has happened too often recently.

For the record : I don't want Root sacked (though I do fear he might walk) He is not a "good" captain ; but if you don't have the players , what can you do ? But he's a man respected by his troops and one they will follow .  If they can get a decent XI together (more later !) he is the best current option.

I just wish he would chat to the support staff and get a bit more of a set of options instead of seeming to start with plan. "A" and sticking to it until destruction...

Morning / evening Alfie - that does presuppose the support staff are going to add value. Imo Jonathan Lewis is one who is not fit for purpose. View as to Silverwood have been well rehearsed by others and Olly especially.

PS I missed your ''through our night'' posts. Trust you got a couple or more in the end column. thumbsup

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Post by Gooseberry Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:24 pm

alfie wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
alfie wrote:
Burns run out for 0 not the start they wanted . Only saw the Pope dismissal - which will probably be his last in an England shirt for a while unless he can produce a second innings performance. (Please note I do not want to " close the file " on Pope. He has ability. But he needs to go back to his county right now and reset.)



As a non white ball player he should be going to the west indies and resetting in some vaguely relevant cricket, he scored a bucket load of runs in county cricket (including his reset this summer) and hasnt ever translated that to tests. Playing at the Oval is clearly making him soft...he averages around 100 there, if anything more county cricket is going to hurt him when it comes to facing consistent quality pace bowling (or good spinners). Until the county game is vaguely replicating what they face in tests its going to continue to produce players who struggle to translate their method. He has the basic talent, just needs to be able to handle the pressure and adjust his risk taking.



I do see your point , goose. But surely England's immediate task is to try to win the Next Game ?  And I'm not sure that picking Pope right now is a smart move towards that objective...  He has potential , sure. But can they afford to keep picking him for that while they're getting skittled regularly ?  Getting ahead of ourselves : but if they were to try , say , Foakes with the gloves in West Indies : how could you possibly pick Pope ahead of Bairstow at six ?

Give him a break. He will be back. If he's learned he might crack it next time round. But right now you're bashing your head - or his - against a brick wall.

I really don't think they can afford to think one game at a time, thats whats led to Stokes being wheeled out and potentially aggravating his injury. There needs to be long term consideration on who will actually make England a better team, and how they are bought on. The need for squad rotation and genuine rest for 3 format players is also something that simply cat be ignored in the modern game, ragging the likes of Stokes isnt going to improve the squad or improve his chances of staying fit through the summer. Same with Bairstow, even if he hasnt played a lot this winter he's still been in the bubble all tour and will be facing a summer with just a few short windows to see his family.

Pope is a one format player, and in spite of his struggles its not like theres a huge list of candidates banging the door down to take his place. At 24 he has the potential to be a key player for years to come. And as above county cricket has clearly gone as far as it can in making him better.  Bairstows 32 now and a played whos always going to be rotated out as a three formatter and big franchise earner, and likely to retire from tests sometime in the next couple of years.

If, as is abundantly evident, county cricket is developing bad habits and soft mentalities in our players we need to rebuild a team around young players in tests.

Unless he's totally mentally shot in the same way Bess was from being on tour he absolutely has to go to the west indies, even if hes not picked to play. Id rather see Livingtone given an opportunity there than turn to one of the "50 cap cavalry".

If the England coaching staff dont think they can improve these players by spending time with them more than they can improve them by ditching them to sit home for 10 weeks before playing against medium pacers in April then they really need to sack themselves. England need to be focused on young specialist test players in this format, not trying to win the next game with a fat old ginger who averages 24 in his last 20 tests (less than Pope does).

Obviously being deliberately harsh on the Bairstow situation, and clearly he justified the faith shown in him (last test), and noone could really complain to see him retained for the west indies...but I dont see how thats going to help England build a better test squad or make sure they dont end up breaking the white ball teams trying to win a low key test against equally rubbish opposition.

Also have to think about Malans place, he was picked as an Aus specialist and has done at best OK on this tour, his record elsewhere is poor. Again not young and picked as a short term gap filler, ideally would be focusing on the two formats he's genuinely a world class talent in. Burns too, looks like his average will never catch up with his age again. England are desperately short of batsmen who actually deserve a place, so whilst in a harsh competitive world we would see Hameed and Pope binned they simply cannot afford to do that. As a minimum they need to be in the squad and pushed hard in training.

If they pick Malan, Bairstow, Buttler and Stokes to start the next test when do these players get rotated out (could chuck Woakes in that mix too tbh) Why is it OK to sacrifice a T20 series to give youngsters a chance, as they are this Jan, but not a test series (especially when they already have too many good white ball players!)

The bit I do agree on is that Foakes should be the keeper, even if they are playing Bairstow...at least reduce the chance of him getting injured again.

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Post by Pal Joey Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:32 pm

alfie wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Woakes' luck eventually runs out. The faintest of edges. Good call for review from Cummins.

Cummins way better than Tim Paine at referrals ! Low bar though Smile

Laugh

Yeah, and Root's referrals bar is actually an underground water pipe! Need a metal detector to find it. He's pretty hopeless too, isn't he?
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Post by alfie Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:47 pm

Pal Joey wrote:
alfie wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Woakes' luck eventually runs out. The faintest of edges. Good call for review from Cummins.

Cummins way better than Tim Paine at referrals ! Low bar though Smile

Laugh

Yeah, and Root's referrals bar is actually an underground water pipe! Need a metal detector to find it. He's pretty hopeless too, isn't he?

Yes he ain't the best either. Think he is marginally better than Paine though ...and the latter was supposedly in the best spot to judge.

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Post by Pal Joey Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:49 pm

alfie wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:
alfie wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Woakes' luck eventually runs out. The faintest of edges. Good call for review from Cummins.

Cummins way better than Tim Paine at referrals ! Low bar though Smile

Laugh

Yeah, and Root's referrals bar is actually an underground water pipe! Need a metal detector to find it. He's pretty hopeless too, isn't he?

Yes he ain't the best either. Think he is marginally better than Paine though ...and the latter was supposedly in the best spot to judge.

He was probably fiddling with his phone though...

How did you go today... any wickets and runs, alfie?
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:53 pm

A pair for David Warner - that’s the real quiz folks
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Post by Duty281 Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:57 pm

Groundhog day. Cummins nicely exploiting the technical flaws of England 's batsmen. Are England continuing with Malan at 3, because after a decent start he's approaching 'shot like Hameed' territory. Woakes is close to ending up with the second highest batting average for England in this series, which says a lot.

Anyway it's nearly all over. Oh dear, Robinson is bowling. Is this the best idea?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:06 pm

Duty281 wrote:Groundhog day. Cummins nicely exploiting the technical flaws of England 's batsmen. Are England continuing with Malan at 3, because after a decent start he's approaching 'shot like Hameed' territory. Woakes is close to ending up with the second highest batting average for England in this series, which says a lot.

Anyway it's nearly all over. Oh dear,  Robinson is bowling. Is this the best idea?

*whispers quietly* Ed Smith was absolutely bang on about Malan… censored
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Post by alfie Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:10 pm

Wood lively again...does for Khawaja to see Australia struggling at 33/3 and continuing the illusion that England have a way back into this match...

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Post by guildfordbat Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:11 pm

20 minutes for England to get Boland. If they don't, well ....

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Post by alfie Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:13 pm

Pal Joey wrote:
alfie wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:
alfie wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Woakes' luck eventually runs out. The faintest of edges. Good call for review from Cummins.

Cummins way better than Tim Paine at referrals ! Low bar though Smile

Laugh

Yeah, and Root's referrals bar is actually an underground water pipe! Need a metal detector to find it. He's pretty hopeless too, isn't he?

Yes he ain't the best either. Think he is marginally better than Paine though ...and the latter was supposedly in the best spot to judge.

He was probably fiddling with his phone though...

How did you go today... any wickets and runs, alfie?

Ha . After my three for nine off eight overs we didn't need me to bat today...glad you asked Smile

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Post by Gooseberry Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:36 pm

Yeah as we were al just saying yesterday Woakes and Wood are fine England bowlers Very Happy

This mini fight back, plus the Woakes bat cameo, just puts even more pressure and focus on the batting woes.

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Post by alfie Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:44 pm

Kind of annoying that England persist in these "mini fight backs" before lapsing into total collapse.


Test Cricket though. If one team is just that bit better , they will generally prevail over five days no matter their opponents may have a few good sessions, not like the white ball formats where anything can happen on a day...

Boland getting more marks for guts and concentration hanging in tonight thumbsup

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:49 am

Nearly caught me by surprise this afternoon as they've started early...

Boland falls to Wood , a simple edge behind. 47/4.

Broad had two lbw appeals against Smith last over , the second of which looked pretty good. But both going over so just as well Root didn't review.

Should have had a short leg for Head as they'd have had him first ball...

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:52 am

Not expecting much company this afternoon as England fans have doubtless had enough of undergoing torture at ungodly hours of the night... But presume you are around , PJ ?

What odds on a Smith century to close out the series ?

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Post by Pal Joey Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:05 am

alfie wrote:Not expecting much company this afternoon as England fans have doubtless had enough of undergoing torture at ungodly hours of the night... But presume you are around , PJ ?

What odds on a Smith century to close out the series ?

Afternoon alfie.

He has only been close once so far this series. Personally, I think he's looked more scratchier than usual. So many balls just missing the edge or hitting the pads close to an lbw. So I wouldn't be so confident about the odds of him making a century. Probably about the same as Joe getting one in his last dig, I'd say. The odds seem stacked against them both.

Even with a lead just over 170 runs right now, one can never feel so confident. Just add 2 wickets and 20 runs. 80/7 doesn't look terribly good does it? I feel they'll need at least a 250 run lead, minimum but I'd be a lot more comfortable with more. Stokes looked so annoyed after his dismissal in the first innings so I'm quite sure he'd want to make amends.

Head gone now. I'm hoping Australia will have something to bowl at. If they can manage to scrape over a 200 run lead... gives Australia a chance.


Last edited by Pal Joey on Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:07 am

Wood and the short pitched tactic strikes again to keep this ticking over...

Head tickles one down the leg side rather like a couple of England bats yesterday. 59/5.

Will be interesting to see how long Wood can keep this up. Don't expect him to give Green much in his half of the pitch...

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:11 am

Given the way England have batted this series I'd suggest a lead of anything over 200 would make Australia firm favourites ! But obviously they want a lot more than that...and again , past match patterns make it fairly likely they'll get them.

Broad and Wood have been very good today. But once they have to come off.........

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Post by Pal Joey Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:17 am

Yeah. Wood especially as Smith holes out off him. Also think Broad will collect a couple now. Most likely his last go here in Australia so he'll want to finish with a few in the bag.
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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:18 am

Aha !  My Evil Smith Jinx has worked ...devil

Can't keep the hook down and held at fine leg by Malan. Another one for the energetic Mark Wood clap

63/6. Game just about alive still ?

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Post by Pal Joey Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:23 am

A pity everyone else is still asleep, eh alfie? They're missing England's best session on the tour.
Another wicket now and they won't even get near 200 you'd imagine...
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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:25 am

Wood is really operating by the Wagner Method today... This tactic can be overdone - often is by England - but I thought Wood should have employed it , particularly against Head and Labuschagne , much more in the first innings. Too late for that now but hopefully he can pick up more wickets today before he has to rest.

Robinson bowling now : good to see he isn't broken again yet. But not sure he will be much of a threat at military medium pace.

Quite a good test for the relative inexperienced pair of Green and Carey now...

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:33 am

Pal Joey wrote:A pity everyone else is still asleep, eh alfie? They're missing England's best session on the tour.
Another wicket now and they won't even get near 200 you'd imagine...

Without actually checking the details , PJ ; I think the sleeping English fans have managed to miss a few of the tourists better sessions. They often seem to come back aboard just as Australia get back on course and start stomping all over them again Smile

Wood still steaming in. Might as well bowl him into the ground here as long as he's willing , eh ? He can have a nice rest after today - and if he could grab a couple more now that rest just might come earlier...

Time for a drink soon ? 71/6

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:38 am

No , Wood rested after that excellent spell so it's up to Woakes to keep the pressure on. He's not been able to do so in this series so now would be a good time for him to have a rare overseas good spell.

Ha. Short leg in at last. Pretty obvious positioning but it took them a long time to make the move. Need to get Green before he gets
settled , or the usual late order carve up will take place again...

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:46 am

Couple of lovely cover drives from Carey clap Feasting on some rather floaty full balls from Woakes.

England have to push for further wickets but these boundaries are moving that lead up quite rapidly.

Drinks now . 90/6

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Post by Pal Joey Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:56 am

That was so close. Woakes very unlucky. Carey gets another life off a no ball.
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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:59 am

Aargh ! Woakes bowls Carey ...but it's a marginal no ball picard

Three times now in this series. Just not acceptable for professionals in my book. That might be the straw that breaks the camels back in this match : if it had held it would have seen Australia seven down and just 207 ahead .

Horse will off down the road now , to mix my animals...

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:05 pm

Pal Joey wrote:That was so close. Woakes very unlucky. Carey gets another life off a no ball.

He's not really unlucky though , PJ . Yeah , it was very marginal but he just should not be overstepping like that. He does this for a living and it makes no sense to push so close to the line and risk things like that happening.

Really makes me furious when this happens as it just sucks the life out of the team after all the efforts they've put in today. We will never know , of course ; but I fancy if that wicket had fallen England might have been chasing something like 240. Going to be 300 plus now , you can put money on it.

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:20 pm

Robinson has actually bowled quite well in this spell , without any reward as yet. Has beaten Carey outside off a number of times but hasn't managed to draw an edge.

This partnership now worth 40. Vital runs in context.

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:28 pm

Broad gets one at last ! Green lbw on review.How that wasn't given out on field is beyond me...looked stone dead.

112/7. Here is the danger man Starc...

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:33 pm

Wood back on to attack the new batsman. Seems a sensible move : wonder if he will be able to summon up the fire of his early overs again ?

They need him to do so. Lead is now 230 so the Window of Opportunity is not far off closing...

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:41 pm

Now Carey given lbw but has reviewed...

And it is pitched a whisker outside leg so he survives again by the skin of his teeth.

Looking at that graphic you have to say Broad is stiff this time. The ball looks to be right on the line of the stump ...must have been literally a millimetre in that.

Starc falls though...caught at short leg . 121/8

Five wickets for Mark Wood clap clap clap

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:48 pm

Cummins lbw first ball ! Reviewed...and deemed to be missing , again by some minuscule margin ...

These tiny fractions have bedevilled England today : no ball call , lbw decisions ...they call it a game of inches sometimes but these have all been less than an inch between safety and outs. Marnus must have loaned some of his luck to teammates today Smile


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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:06 pm

141/8 at the late lunch break...lead is 256.

Australia owe a lot to Carey ...and to the tiny margins that reprieved him twice in the remarkable session.

I fancy this lead is probably enough ; but if England can possibly get the last two wickets quickly on resumption they may still dare to dream.

At least until they actually start batting Smile

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:46 pm

Fierce first over after the break from Wood...Cummins survived it somehow , despite gloving nearly to short leg twice.

Meanwhile , Warne is pushing the "time for England to select Mason Crane" story again. Is he his agent ?

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:06 pm

Carey falls for an important 49... Little edge off Broad and Billings takes his fifth catch. All pretty routine ones ; but he's not made any mistakes. Carey had his fair share of luck ; but he played well enough no one would have begrudged him a fifty.

Nine down

Lead is 266.

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Post by Gooseberry Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:12 pm

alfie wrote:Kind of annoying that England persist in these "mini fight backs" before lapsing into total collapse.


Also letting the bottom 5 score more than the top 6

The tease is on though ....just enough to on paper look possibe till you realise itll be one the biggest totals theyve made all tour to win

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:12 pm

All done ! Six for 37 for Mark Wood as he clean bowls Cummins...all out 155.
Excellent bowling performance thumbsup Has to be Wood's best in an England shirt.

271 to win.

At least they have plenty of time Smile

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Post by Gooseberry Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:27 pm

Massive vindication for Wood whos taken some unfair stick on the tour (frankly deserved at the start of the first innings mind). Broad too has really made a point on this tour, still getting better with age... maybe theres still hope for Waokes overseas Rolling Eyes Shmae for Robinson that he got hurt in this test, another whos done as well as could have been reasonably expected. Anderson of course fantastic as ever and still a force.

With Stokes putting in some handy support when able to bowl all in Englands seam attack really has been pretty strong (cough Woakes cough), pity about every other aspect of the team. The frustration must be there in the dressing room for the likes of Broad and Anderson in particular, theyve given the batsmen opportunities to be in the game and yet it fell to them last test to also bat out the draw. Would be quite poetic for a last ditch broad and Anderson stand to end things on a high, albeit wishful fantasy land dreaming that the top 7 will get them anywhere near close enough for that to happen!

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:37 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Massive vindication for Wood whos taken some unfair stick on the tour (frankly deserved at the start of the first innings mind). Broad too has really made a point on this tour, still getting better with age... maybe theres still hope for Waokes overseas Rolling Eyes Shmae for Robinson that he got hurt in this test, another whos done as well as could have been reasonably expected. Anderson of course fantastic as ever and still a force.

With Stokes putting in some handy support when able to bowl all in Englands seam attack really has been pretty strong (cough Woakes cough), pity about every other aspect of the team. The frustration must be there in the dressing room for the likes of Broad and Anderson in particular, theyve given the batsmen opportunities to be in the game and yet it fell to them last test to also bat out the draw. Would be quite poetic for a last ditch broad and Anderson stand to end things on a high, albeit wishful fantasy land dreaming that the top 7 will get them anywhere near close enough for that to happen!

Unfortunately with Jimmy not playing here that poetic finish is off the table : unless Robinson gets hit on the head and Jimmy comes in as a concussion sub Smile

I agree the pace bowling has been pretty decent for the most part. Been let down by poor catching , unfortunate injuries to Stokes and Robinson here , and the lack of a serviceable spin option. Plus of course the complete lack of scoreboard pressure as the batsmen collectively haven't been able to deal with the consistently excellent Australian attack.

Last chance here for the batsmen to produce some magic of their own...afraid I am not holding my breath.

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:43 pm

Crawley and Burns enjoying some early luck ! Both edging through slips ; and Burns might have been lbw there as well. Have to say I'm not surprised they didn't review as it looked a bit too leggy : but drs has a knack of surprising you... (Ask Kohli devil )

20/0 after five overs. One of their better starts Smile

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Post by msp83 Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:47 pm

England giving themselves a serious chance. The time for the England skipper to have played his 15th delivery has already come, and he isn't out there in the middle even! Seriously, the right approach from the England bats, they are not going to grind the bowling down into a win here, they have to keep scoring, always reminding Cummins of that target, the way South Africa did it against India in the last 2 tests. At least, that way they'll give themselves a good chance.

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Post by Pal Joey Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:57 pm

A decent start from these two. They're looking good. They should just try and keep playing their natural game (a bit like Rory's hair) and let the runs flow. Don't even think of the scoreboard. It's not an insurmountable total by any means.
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Post by msp83 Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:03 pm

record opening partnership for England in the series!

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Post by msp83 Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:08 pm

If England are to persist with any of the 20Something lot, it has to be this Crawley lad. He is not a conventional opener, and there is that something about him. And unlike Oliver Pope, he's unlikely to encounter spin at the beginning of the innings that often. Crawley's current game against spin is jumping out of the crease and have an agricultural go and hope and pray. But he can play some stunning shots against the quicks, and if he gets going, the runs would come quickly. And as an opener, he wouldn't be aggravating a collapse unlike a middle order bat. Forget about his output, give him the longest possible rope, then hope and pray

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