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Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Wed 22 Dec 2021, 3:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

JDizzle wrote:James Bracey? Admittedly looked painfully bad vs NZ in the summer, but if we are wanting to give guys a chance then he shouldn’t be forgotten about so quickly. Especially as he was batting out of position. Better FC record than Hameed and made a half century for the Lions in Aus in 2020 and a ton this time. But he was flown home because English scoring runs just isn’t on!


Fair. Had forgotten about him actually and he was thrown a suicide pass in the summer against the best test team in the world. He probably does deserve another shot in the near future.

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Post by msp83 Sun 16 Jan 2022, 8:09 am

50 for the English openers! Cummins wouldn't be too worried yet, but another half hour of these 2, he might just be...

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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 8:16 am

Nice to see a fifty opening stand. But Boland is looking dangerous...very close to getting Crawley lbw then but he's on the right side of umpire's call this time...

Probably fair to say England were about due a bit of luck with some close calls after the earlier events of the day.

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Post by kingraf Sun 16 Jan 2022, 8:16 am

I know Burns wants to have his dominant eye tracking the ball, but I'm convinced the way be bats with his head turned means he's halfway to squaring himself up every time
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Post by kingraf Sun 16 Jan 2022, 8:19 am

I said this in the SA-ind series, but I do believe that with games advancing so much faster nowadays a lot of these 250-ish chases are happening when conditions are best for batting, in the beginning anyway. England could well to do this. But they probably won't.
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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 8:32 am

msp83 wrote:If England are to persist with any of the 20Something lot, it has to be this Crawley lad. He is not a conventional opener, and there is that something about him. And unlike Oliver Pope, he's unlikely to encounter spin at the beginning of the innings that often. Crawley's current game against spin is jumping out of the crease and have an agricultural go and hope and pray. But he can play some stunning shots against the quicks, and if he gets going, the runs would come quickly. And as an opener, he wouldn't be aggravating a collapse unlike a middle order bat. Forget about his output, give him the longest possible rope, then hope and pray

I suppose I should "out" myself as one who has always seen a lot to like in Crawley ; but I do mostly agree with you here , msp. The problem he presents is that his record since that monumental 267 against Pakistan has frankly been appalling ...that recent 77 and one good innings in India being surrounded by a host of failures...
He had started reasonably well ; kept raising his top score each innings , if fairly modestly. But that one big innings almost seemed to create a block where he perhaps felt he had too much to live up to ; and his form fell off a cliff.
I actually believe he has the most potential of the young guns and hope he can go on from here. Think his flaws are more mental than technical so perhaps experience will iron them out in time. A proper score here would help ; but he will be travelling to West Indies in March in any case and with a chance to make his mark there.

Your point about his quick scoring is pertinent . Makes him a good match for a more stolid partner like Sibley , if he were to come back into contention. Could be valuable either opening or possibly at three.

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Post by kingraf Sun 16 Jan 2022, 8:38 am

alfie wrote:
msp83 wrote:If England are to persist with any of the 20Something lot, it has to be this Crawley lad. He is not a conventional opener, and there is that something about him. And unlike Oliver Pope, he's unlikely to encounter spin at the beginning of the innings that often. Crawley's current game against spin is jumping out of the crease and have an agricultural go and hope and pray. But he can play some stunning shots against the quicks, and if he gets going, the runs would come quickly. And as an opener, he wouldn't be aggravating a collapse unlike a middle order bat. Forget about his output, give him the longest possible rope, then hope and pray

I suppose I should "out" myself as one who has always seen a lot to like in Crawley ; but I do mostly agree with you here , msp.  The problem he presents is that his record since that monumental 267 against Pakistan has frankly been appalling ...that recent 77 and one good innings in India being surrounded by a host of failures...
He had started reasonably well ; kept raising his top score each innings , if fairly modestly. But that one big innings almost seemed to create a block where he perhaps felt he had too much to live up to ; and his form fell off a cliff.
I actually believe he has the most potential of the young guns and hope he can go on from here. Think his flaws are more mental than technical so perhaps experience will iron them out in time. A proper score here would help ; but he will be travelling to West Indies in March in any case and with a chance to make his mark there.

Your point about his quick scoring is pertinent . Makes him a good match for a more stolid partner like Sibley , if he were to come back into contention. Could be valuable either opening or possibly at three.

This seems a bit results-based. Crawley had a chance not go to hand, then survived an LBW shout. Another day and he's out for 15 and he's part of the problem.

Anyway Burns goes out and his dominant eye did not help him judge that well.
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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 8:43 am

Steady on kingraf ...not suggesting Crawley has played some magic innings here ! He was indeed very lucky early...but my comments (and msp's , I think ) were more general.
You can't deny he is easy on the eye ; but of course he has a lot to do to turn potential into achievement. Just hoping he can.

Shame Burns has gone right on tea. Been an England habit lately - just before intervals or just after.

A decent start though. Just 203 more needed...

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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:04 am

Also to note that this is not the first time in this series that Green has chipped in with an important breakthrough wicket.
His overall figures are good enough anyway ; but he's picked up wickets at crucial times - or batsmen who were going well at the time - quite often. Probably won't be too happy with his batting over these matches ; but his bowling has really been very good. Almost the opposite of his contributions against India last year.

Australia hasn't really had a true all rounder - as opposed to a batsman who bowls useful stuff or a bowler with some batting ability - for a long time (didn't need one in the Warne/McGrath years) but this fellow could be the one...

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Post by kingraf Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:12 am

alfie wrote:Steady on kingraf ...not suggesting Crawley has played some magic innings here ! He was indeed very lucky early...but my comments (and msp's , I think ) were more general.
You can't deny he is easy on the eye ; but of course he has a lot to do to turn potential into achievement. Just hoping he can.

Shame Burns has gone right on tea. Been an England habit lately - just before intervals or just after.

A decent start though. Just 203 more needed...

He is indeed easy on the eye, but I'm not sold on him as an opener. I think he could be an international quality cricketer, just not against the new ball.

Couple boundaries from Malan and the target is below 200. It all comes down to this session I think. Pitch looks pretty good for batting, so I'd think if England survive this session to the tune of 100/2, they'll be HEAVY favourites tomorrow morning
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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:12 am

Imagine we will be having the discussion about Burns after the match now... He has had an unhappy series to say the least and that finish won't have done him any favours I'm afraid. Manner of dismissal was not exactly a shock.

Will consider further before commenting on his future : plenty of time before the next series so will leave the "off with his head" stuff to the BBC HYS... (I think it must be short for "hysteria")

76/1. Malan getting a bit of a work over from Green...

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Post by Gooseberry Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:14 am

This mini fightback is now officially and extended one. I'm guessing g even rhe asussies are happy about this , and exciting finish at least helps keep test cricket feeling relevant beyond 3 teams.

Crawley mightve ridden his luck but I'm sure he's had a few the other wayi in his career. In terms of top 3 England players he's the only one who can actually justify a place in the side still.

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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:17 am

kingraf wrote:
alfie wrote:Steady on kingraf ...not suggesting Crawley has played some magic innings here ! He was indeed very lucky early...but my comments (and msp's , I think ) were more general.
You can't deny he is easy on the eye ; but of course he has a lot to do to turn potential into achievement. Just hoping he can.

Shame Burns has gone right on tea. Been an England habit lately - just before intervals or just after.

A decent start though. Just 203 more needed...

He is indeed easy on the eye, but I'm not sold on him as an opener. I think he could be an international quality cricketer, just not against the new ball.

Couple boundaries from Malan and the target is below 200. It all comes down to this session I think. Pitch looks pretty good for batting, so I'd think if England survive this session to the tune of 100/2, they'll be HEAVY favourites tomorrow morning

Yes I agree Crawley ideally would be better at three (don't think Root is after moving up a spot) ; but given the dearth of England opening talent he might still be the best option they have. Which is why I want to see how he goes in West Indies - where I think he will surely be tasked with an opening role. We will see.

England in pursuit of a fourth innings target are never favourites , heavy or otherwise Smile

Would like to see the game at least still alive into tomorrow...

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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:21 am

Don't like the way Malan keeps nibbling/flashing at shortish balls from Green. Not a % play I fear.

And duly chopped on ! He just didn't look like it today , did he ?

82/2 and Australia back on top.

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Post by kingraf Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:22 am

alfie wrote:Imagine we will be having the discussion about Burns after the match now... He has had an unhappy series to say the least and that finish won't have done him any favours I'm afraid. Manner of dismissal was not exactly a shock.

Will consider further before commenting on his future : plenty of time before the next series so will leave the "off with his head" stuff to the BBC HYS...  (I think it must be short for "hysteria")

76/1. Malan getting a bit of a work over from Green...

Things to like about Burns, but, as I've jokingly teased at varying points, his set-up is designed to allow his stronger eye to have a better focus on the ball, but as anyone who has ever done some martial arts knows, the head leads. I feel like if you bast with your head facing all the way forward, your shoulder has to follow, which brings your hips. This squares him up easily, sure, but it also completely closes of the scoring options in front of square on the off side for him. It basically makes him a walking wicket outside of off-stump and it's only a matter of time, because you don't really have to worry about him scoring off you.

Green gets Malan too. Hadn't been the same since Green falconed him in the head. Maybe should have retired for a a couple wickets to clear his head
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Post by JDizzle Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:25 am

Dawid Malan’s wife gave birth to their first child last night - six weeks early. Would imagine he has had a rough few days at the very minimum.

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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:34 am

JDizzle wrote:Dawid Malan’s wife gave birth to their first child last night - six weeks early. Would imagine he has had a rough few days at the very minimum.

Didn't know that. Can't have helped . He was playing pretty well early in the series (sort of justifying his selection as an "Australian conditions specialist" ) ; but he's been worn down (or found out by the bowlers ?) as the matches have gone on.

Green bowling really well and has done for Crawley now as well...

Think the England wheels are off now. Pity after such a handy start ; but not unexpected.

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Post by Pal Joey Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:38 am

So alfie, what odds on Root getting his first century on Australian soil? Stokes there too so maybe the two of them can pull off something special, eh?
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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:52 am

Pal Joey wrote:So alfie, what odds on Root getting his first century on Australian soil? Stokes there too so maybe the two of them can pull off something special, eh?

Ah well it would be a "nice" finish...and I don't think even a lot of Aussie fans would begrudge Root a farewell hundred, even if it did lead to a 3-1 rather than 4-0 scoreline.

But I suspect fairy tales don't happen all that often and Joe might be a bit worn down at this end of the tour anyway.

I'd like to see a really tight battle on into tomorrow whichever way it goes. But I do think Australia are huge favourites now. England needed Crawley to keep going and collecting regular boundaries. Batting looks much harder now.

Hasn't Green been superb this evening ?

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Post by JDizzle Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:54 am

Green has been much improved with the ball this series. I thought he looked a bit pop gun and toothless vs India last year and didn’t offer anything other than a few overs rest to the other seamers - but he’s been a legitimate front line seamer this series. Impressive.

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Post by Gooseberry Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:59 am

You called it midway yesterday Alfie , pretty inevitable really.

Still a chance for a glorious last ditch broadandanderson stand but increasingly remote

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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:00 am

Ah now...there goes Stokes , perishing to a rash attempt to pull Starc. The runs had dried up and the pressure told.

Think that was the realistic hopes extinguished. Still got Pope and Billings ; but I fear this is asking too much of Root now. Lose another one now and this could well be over tonight.

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Post by Pal Joey Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:01 am

alfie wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:So alfie, what odds on Root getting his first century on Australian soil? Stokes there too so maybe the two of them can pull off something special, eh?

Ah well it would be a "nice" finish...and I don't think even a lot of Aussie fans would begrudge Root a farewell hundred, even if it did lead to a 3-1 rather than 4-0 scoreline.

Yes, I wouldn't mind at all. That would be nice. The Root farewell hundred that is; not the second part. Smile

Stokes gone! He never really got going with bat and ball this series. Still don't think he's "all OK" upstairs... it's written all over his face.
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Post by Gooseberry Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:04 am

Just on the talk of Crawley at 3 ....its worth remembering that the position promising England players have been even worse than openers in recent decades (post trott) is 3, even doscou ting cook from the conversation. I'm not sure he'd fare any better in the defence against the dark arts role

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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:14 am

Gooseberry wrote:Just on the talk of Crawley at 3 ....its worth remembering that the position promising England players have been even worse than openers in recent decades (post trott) is 3, even doscou ting cook from the conversation. I'm not sure he'd fare any better in the defence against the dark arts role

Don't worry goose... England will probably ask your favourite whipping boy YJB to bat three in West Indies Smile

Will be a while before England can settle a top three again , I fear. Truth is , no one has been able to stake a serious claim to any of those spots since they were vacated by Strauss , Trott , and finally Cook. Deck chairs will be shifted in the meantime...

101/4 at drinks. Whisky time.

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Post by JDizzle Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:20 am

That’s borderline unplayable. Just have to hope it misses the stumps!

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Post by kingraf Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:22 am

kingraf wrote:



Couple boundaries from Malan and the target is below 200. It all comes down to this session I think. Pitch looks pretty good for batting, so I'd think if England survive this session to the tune of 100/2, they'll be HEAVY favourites tomorrow morning


So that didn't happen. England's middle order have folded a cheap suit. Tired team at the end of a horror tour
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Post by kingraf Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:23 am

I just really need Ollie Pope to have a hundred against anyone else so his knock against us isn't as embarassing.
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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:25 am

Oh dear...not much Root could do with that. Must have hit a crack because it nearly ran along the ground... 101/5 , Boland with his tail up...this will be done in an hour I reckon.

Pope and Billings have their own futures to play for , I guess. But they can't have much hope left for chasing the target now. Pity : for a while there I held genuine hopes of at least a bit of tension persisting overnight.
But essentially Australia won this match on day two with a bit of late hitting and a demolition job on the England first innings. Great fightback from England today but was just too far to come back...

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Post by Gooseberry Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:26 am

Hiding him at 6 wouldn't help much either since that position ends up facing the new ball more often than not

Don't see much value in persisting with Malan, even if he's not been the worst of the bunch on this tour. He was picked as an aus specialist but isn't a long term option in quality or age forbtests, plus he'd have to miss some series if he's still part of the white ball core squad. It may be that he (or as you jokingly suggested bairstow) gap fills for the windies, but that's really all it would be.

No easy short term solutions, they need to look long term. No more denlys, get these you g players to realise their potential. They won't do that sat in their bedrooms waiting for the County season to start.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:27 am

Pretty much every single pundit, if not all of them, and most casual observers have been saying the same thing about Burns and his dominant eye since he came on the scene. Everyone knows what the issue is, it's nothing new, it's what you do about it that is more difficult. You either completely remodel his set up or you accept his eccentricities and back him.

Or alternatively, as they have already done, you drop him.

I don't think remodeling his technique is really feasible for him. It rarely works when you're talking about such an extreme set up. It isn't a minor adjustment. It's huge.

It can work but not often. If you look at Bairstow in his first go at test cricket he looked very conventional with a high elbow and dead straight head. Then he went away after geting dropped and came back looking like a gun slinger with a baseball stance and was almost unrecognisable from his early stance. But, he was much younger in his career than Burns, and is just a better player anyway.

I don't think that option is there for Burns they have to either back him or get rid for good if they think they have someone better.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:29 am

As for the match. Its England. It is always the Pope hope that kills you.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Galted Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:32 am

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:As for the match. Its England. It is always the Pope hope that kills you.

Let me tell you something my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane.
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Post by Pal Joey Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:32 am

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
I don't think remodeling his hairstyle is really feasible for him. It rarely works when you're talking about such an extreme set up. It isn't a minor adjustment. It's huge.

Nothing a good hairdresser can't fix, Tino. I fear you're being way too harsh on him! Just get him into the nearest salon when he gets back home.
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Post by Gooseberry Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:35 am

Don't forget sorting his hair out turned Anderson into a proper bowler

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Post by Gooseberry Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:40 am

Last thing to hope for now is a caught " caught and bowled boland Anderson " on the scoreboard

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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:40 am

Billings joining the procession...he kept pretty well ; but scores of 29 and 1 might put the calls for him as the Next England Captain on hold for a bit...


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Post by Pal Joey Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:41 am

The Pope has left the building...
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Post by kingraf Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:42 am

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Pretty much every single pundit, if not all of them, and most casual observers have been saying the same thing about Burns and his dominant eye since he came on the scene. Everyone knows what the issue is, it's nothing new, it's what you do about it that is more difficult. You either completely remodel his set up or you accept his eccentricities and back him.

Or alternatively, as they have already done, you drop him.

I don't think remodeling his technique is really feasible for him. It rarely works when you're talking about such an extreme set up. It isn't a minor adjustment. It's huge.

It can work but not often. If you look at Bairstow in his first go at test cricket he looked very conventional with a high elbow and dead straight head. Then he went away after geting dropped and came back looking like a gun slinger with a baseball stance and was almost unrecognisable from his early stance. But, he was much younger in his career than Burns, and is just a better player anyway.

I don't think that option is there for Burns they have to either back him or get rid for good if they think they have someone better.

Nick Compton had a similar issue, and I think it's part of the reason he had a strike rate of 36, which invariably meant he got stuck and then got out. The logic behind seeing the ball with your dominant eye makes on paper, but in a sport with a side-on technique, seems to not quite be worth the effort and change.

Burns could probably help himself a bit by at least opening up his stance so that his head doesn't keep turning him if he is to persist trying to be dominant-eyed, kinda like AB de Villiers the last 6-8 years of his career. But as you say, his technique is all his own, so it might not be a simple fix.
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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:43 am

Happening too fast now as Pope's tour from hell comes to a sad end...

What a collapse from 68/0 ! 107/7 ???

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Post by kingraf Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:49 am

Maybe we really did hit rock-bottom in 2019.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:52 am

Playing the hits one more time England, for their fans. Have to admire it
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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:53 am

Departure lounge cricket now as Woakes swings and edges...can't really blame him after the way the proper batsmen folded. Only a Root really got an unplayable ball.

Disappointing after the brave fightback from late yesterday. But at least we can all relax overnight with the thing all finished...

4-0 to Australia is an appropriate result ; 3-1 would have been an oddity if it had somehow happened.

Wood goes down swinging and it is one wicket away...

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Post by Gooseberry Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:54 am

Just as well we don't have Ireland this summer

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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 10:58 am

Three for Cummins as Robinson basically steps away and gets bowled...Afraid they really did give it away just as in Melbourne.

Inquests later. Just congrats Australia for now ...a really dominant performance clap clap :clap.

Bubbly Ale:

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Post by alfie Sun 16 Jan 2022, 11:00 am

alfie wrote:Oh dear...not much Root could do with that. Must have hit a crack because it nearly ran along the ground... 101/5 , Boland with his tail up...this will be done in an hour I reckon.

Pope and Billings have their own futures to play for , I guess. But they can't have much hope left for chasing the target now. Pity : for a while there I held genuine hopes of at least a bit of tension persisting overnight.
But essentially Australia won this match on day two with a bit of late hitting and a demolition job on the England first innings. Great fightback from England today but was just too far to come back...

Only took thirty three minutes actually Smile

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Post by Jeff Navarro Sun 16 Jan 2022, 11:03 am

Can’t believe what just transpired Shocked

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Post by Pal Joey Sun 16 Jan 2022, 11:11 am

Thanks Alfie.  OK

Commiserations to you and all the England fans on here. All the best for the upcoming tour to the West Indies.



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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 16 Jan 2022, 11:45 am

There are many things about English cricket which will require longer discussion and I’m sure we’ll have it in the coming weeks/months…but I would quite like to hear of Chris Silverwood and this coaching staffs firings as soon as possible please, the ECB.

Even if the wider context of the game needs some tweaking, they’ve been a total shambles for over a year now, only held up at times by Root being peak Joe Root with the bat. Have they developed one single player, bat or ball since they took charge? Wood has got a bit more consistent would be the only one…?
Might not be the talent for England to be the best at the moment, but there is enough talent to put up more of a show than they have done. Back to working the county circuit for you “Spoons”
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Post by Lowlandbrit Sun 16 Jan 2022, 11:49 am

Gooseberry wrote:Just on the talk of Crawley at 3 ....its worth remembering that the position promising England players have been even worse than openers in recent decades (post trott) is 3
Including one Z. Crawley, making it a slightly surreal discussion to begin with...

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Post by protea438 Sun 16 Jan 2022, 12:38 pm

Officialy the worst sporting contest on the planet. At least its over. But come 2023 there will be columns and columns hyping the dead duck again and having to listen to commentators screaming into the microphone - I heard even wrestling commentators saying it was to much Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

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