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Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Wed 22 Dec 2021, 3:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

JDizzle wrote:James Bracey? Admittedly looked painfully bad vs NZ in the summer, but if we are wanting to give guys a chance then he shouldn’t be forgotten about so quickly. Especially as he was batting out of position. Better FC record than Hameed and made a half century for the Lions in Aus in 2020 and a ton this time. But he was flown home because English scoring runs just isn’t on!


Fair. Had forgotten about him actually and he was thrown a suicide pass in the summer against the best test team in the world. He probably does deserve another shot in the near future.

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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Jan 2022, 5:33 am

David Bettingham? Isn't he back playing domestic cricket in South Africa? If England is so desperate to play yet another South African, they could then look at Simon Harmer. He can at the very least, surely land his offspinners unlike England's first choice offie, and the guy can hold a bat too lower down the order.

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Post by JDizzle Thu 20 Jan 2022, 7:04 am

The Bedingham shout was a bit tongue in cheek. I believe he does have some English ancestry but has made it clear he still wants to play for SA at the moment. My knowledge of how/if/when he could qualify stops then unfortunately!

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 20 Jan 2022, 9:38 am

guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:Now apart from the selection questions , I am sensing a strange gap on here...

Where is guildford's response to Agnew's plans to effectively axe half the First Class Counties , and indeed abolish the CC altogether ? I believe most on here want to see a serious amount of change in the English domestic game - not just as a response to the recent rotten run but because it has been clear for some time that the system isn't producing young batsmen fit for International cricket (other than the 20 over thrash format) but I'm not sure a total "burn it all down" approach is either practical or likely to work the magic hoped for.

Have just listened to a discussion between Ward , Key , Atherton and Hussain re the tour and its lessons , future plans etc...commend it to all. They are up for change all right ; but admit there may not be a perfect solution and that any rearrangement of the domestic season is going to call for compromise.

You fellows on the ground are much better placed than I to comment anyway so I will resist proposing a detailed plan of my own to rebalance red and white ball stuff.

But I do hope to hear from guildford as one of the remaining dinosaurs before the Extinction Event Smile

Hi Alfie - I have long felt that dinosaurs get a tough press. They ruled the earth for 143 million years so must have got something right. That correct, Joey? [He's also the 606 creatures expert.]

Out now. More later.

PS Have you seen Olly's new thread? I suspect he was paid by the line but it's money well earned!

Hi again Alfie and all - glad to see such diversity across 606!

Having looked back, I see that my views on Tests and the domestic game were largely given in my posts of 24 December and 3 January. They're on this thread on pages 1 and 8 if anyone really wants to look. Someone who didn't (well he didn't reply anyway) was Agnew so I don't see a requirement to respond to him in detail.

All I'll say for Aggers is that he seems to put a lot of blame on the counties. However they have no say in many aspects, including the scheduling of games and the availability of the better players. Also, a draft for a new red ball competition to replace the County Championship would do nothing to get those teams to encourage the development of young players.

I still need to listen to the Sky thing and will post further on Olly's thread once I have. thumbsup

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 20 Jan 2022, 9:54 am

JDizzle wrote:Right then, let's add my thoughts to proceedings...
...

...

I don't get the Garton calls. He was going at over 4 an over in the CC last season! That just doesn't cut it at test level one bit. I just don't see him ever being a Test level cricketer unfortunately.

Burns, Crawley, Malan, Root, Stokes, Bairstow, Foakes, Robinson, Wood, Broad, Leach.

Bracey, Sibley (check on his progress with a view to him playing this summer), Brown (if he starts over YJB, if not then Lawrence), Anderson, Parkinson, Mahmood.

I think, looking at my squad, is I do believe they have identified somewhere near the best cricketers in England and Wales. Which is a bit worrying.

Hi JD - I share your belief and your worry. That suggests to me that there is a greater need for the management and coaching to be reviewed and at least some changes made.

Extremely difficult for me to make calls and advocate solutions on that without any proper knowledge on what goes on behind the scenes, who else might be better and who could be available. Out now but I'll throw in a few names later.

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Post by VTR Thu 20 Jan 2022, 11:18 am

Jason Roy made a quick hundred in the T20 warmup match. If anyone else plumbs the depths of Facebook cricket posts, they will surely have seen the "get Rooy in da Test syde" comments themselves

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Post by JDizzle Thu 20 Jan 2022, 12:03 pm

JDizzle wrote:The Women’s Ashes start tomorrow. In good news, the women’s team are in better shape than England men. In bad news, Australia women are a better team than their men! Hard to see England winning the Ashes back.

So pretty much this!

England made a respectable 169 from their 20 overs. Yet Australia got it outrageously easily. England’s batting just doesn’t have the firepower, Sciver aside, Australia’s does.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 20 Jan 2022, 12:10 pm

JDizzle wrote:
JDizzle wrote:The Women’s Ashes start tomorrow. In good news, the women’s team are in better shape than England men. In bad news, Australia women are a better team than their men! Hard to see England winning the Ashes back.

So pretty much this!

England made a respectable 169 from their 20 overs. Yet Australia got it outrageously easily. England’s batting just doesn’t have the firepower, Sciver aside, Australia’s does.

Insane knock by McGrath - and they dropped Ellysse Perry! Not bad depth is it...
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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Thu 20 Jan 2022, 1:39 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
JDizzle wrote:
JDizzle wrote:The Women’s Ashes start tomorrow. In good news, the women’s team are in better shape than England men. In bad news, Australia women are a better team than their men! Hard to see England winning the Ashes back.

So pretty much this!

England made a respectable 169 from their 20 overs. Yet Australia got it outrageously easily. England’s batting just doesn’t have the firepower, Sciver aside, Australia’s does.

Insane knock by McGrath - and they dropped Ellysse Perry! Not bad depth is it...

Maybe the England men could play the Aussie women. I'd still fancy us to lose but at least it might be competitive.

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Post by JDizzle Thu 20 Jan 2022, 1:41 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
JDizzle wrote:
JDizzle wrote:The Women’s Ashes start tomorrow. In good news, the women’s team are in better shape than England men. In bad news, Australia women are a better team than their men! Hard to see England winning the Ashes back.

So pretty much this!

England made a respectable 169 from their 20 overs. Yet Australia got it outrageously easily. England’s batting just doesn’t have the firepower, Sciver aside, Australia’s does.

Insane knock by McGrath - and they dropped Ellysse Perry! Not bad depth is it...

I would probably have named at least 8/9 Aussies who would be more likely do destroy England than McGrath! It’s not even a slight on England really to say Aus A would probably give them a game. Australia’s depth is just too good.

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Post by VTR Thu 20 Jan 2022, 1:59 pm

Not the first time a McGrath has terrorised England!

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Post by king_carlos Thu 20 Jan 2022, 2:30 pm

JDizzle wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
JDizzle wrote:
JDizzle wrote:The Women’s Ashes start tomorrow. In good news, the women’s team are in better shape than England men. In bad news, Australia women are a better team than their men! Hard to see England winning the Ashes back.

So pretty much this!

England made a respectable 169 from their 20 overs. Yet Australia got it outrageously easily. England’s batting just doesn’t have the firepower, Sciver aside, Australia’s does.

Insane knock by McGrath - and they dropped Ellysse Perry! Not bad depth is it...

I would probably have named at least 8/9 Aussies who would be more likely do destroy England than McGrath! It’s not even a slight on England really to say Aus A would probably give them a game. Australia’s depth is just too good.
The Australia women's set-up really is a credit to CA. I've been incredibly critical of the CA for their role alongside the BCCI and ECB in taking over cricket. I've also been very critical of Australia doing so little to support cricket outside Australia by touring during covid. The women's set-up is absolutely fantastic though. The WBBL has no doubt played a big role there.

I'm hoping the women's hundred can do similar for women's cricket in England over time. Rewind 10 years ago and the England women's set-up was fantastic. For a good few years it stood frustratingly still though due to lack of ambition. Seeing them play a Test on a used pitch was a depressing indictment of that.

The growing interest for women's cricket is wonderful. The club I play for in Scotland fields a very strong women's XI twice a week, has a mixed development side for people just taking up the game at all ages which fields many woman new to game and has multiple girls age grade sides. Re-wind to the noughties when I was at school and that was unfathomable. We had a former Yorkshire CCC captain coaching at the school and when his very talented daughter wanted to try cricket she was the only girl in the entire school doing so in boys sides.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 20 Jan 2022, 2:31 pm

msp83 wrote:David Bettingham? Isn't he back playing domestic cricket in South Africa? If England is so desperate to play yet another South African, they could then look at Simon Harmer. He can at the very least, surely land his offspinners unlike England's first choice offie, and the guy can hold a bat too lower down the order.
Harmer's played Test cricket for the Proteas.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 20 Jan 2022, 2:38 pm

VTR wrote:Not the first time a McGrath has terrorised England!

Saw a headline that said 'McGrath helps Australia thrash England ' and briefly wondered if I had time travelled back to 2001.

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Post by VTR Thu 20 Jan 2022, 2:50 pm

Must be something about that name. Even England unearthed one with a Test batting average of 40 and bowling average of 14!

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Post by Duty281 Sat 22 Jan 2022, 1:03 pm

West Indies (possible): 1 Brandon King, 2 Kyle Mayers, 3 Nicholas Pooran (wk), 4 Roston Chase, 5 Kieron Pollard (capt), 6 Rovman Powell/Jason Holder, 7 Fabian Allen, 8 Odean Smith, 9 Dominic Drakes/Romario Shepherd, 10 Akeal Hosein/Hayden Walsh Jr, 11 Sheldon Cottrell

England (possible): 1 Jason Roy, 2 Tom Banton (wk), 3 James Vince, 4 Moeen Ali, 5 Eoin Morgan, 6 Phil Salt (wk), 7 Liam Dawson/George Garton, 8 Chris Jordan, 9 Adil Rashid, 10 Tymal Mills, 11 Saqib Mahmood

Cricinfo's probable teams, bit of guesswork, for tonight's T20. Hope Olly is ready for Cottrell's salute! Both teams missing players, England moreso, but that just equals an opportunity for fringe players to press their claims.

I found out this is a five game series, not three, with an odd spaced out schedule of Saturday/Sunday/Wednesday/Saturday/Sunday. England haven't won a game of cricket since the 1st November, might be nice to break that streak today.

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Post by msp83 Sat 22 Jan 2022, 4:36 pm

Think the West Indies method of playing T-20 has become outdated. They haven't been able to adapt. And in limited overs, this England team, even without the likes of Stokes, Buttler and Bairstow, is still very much a powerhouse. Would be very surprised if England can't win the series easily.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 22 Jan 2022, 7:34 pm

England lose the toss and are batting first

Roy
Banton
Vince
Moeen
Morgan
Billings
Jordan
Dawson
Mills
Rashid
Mahmood

Livingstone misses out with illness…was widely reported Salt would debut so not sure what’s happened there
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Post by Duty281 Sat 22 Jan 2022, 8:04 pm

Absolute shock as Roy gets out in the first over.

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Post by Gooseberry Sat 22 Jan 2022, 8:07 pm

Im a bit meh about Vince and Dawson being used. I understand they dont want to field too weak /inexperienced a side but are those two likely to ever feature in a major tournament squad for England again? Its not like they need a third spinner, or that Parkinson and Crane dont exist. And yeah, Phil "the waterboy" Salt sits out for them again.

Given they are missing a number of the most experienced players its a surprisingly old team overall. Its really only Mahmmod and Banton who have an opportunity to pressure the established squad and press their cases, to some extent Mills too who only really got back in through injuries.

Im not so sure its the West Indies being outdated as such, more lacking a depth of players with the required levels of professionalism and exposure to top end franchise T20s.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 22 Jan 2022, 8:09 pm

10-2 with both openers gone in the first two overs - you have to ask, is there too much focus on red ball cricket these days impacting the England white ball side?

Edit - 10-3!
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Post by Gooseberry Sat 22 Jan 2022, 8:10 pm

Duty281 wrote:Absolute shock as Roy gets out in the first over.

He did get a century in the warm up , but yeah not doing his chances of a test recall any good Whistle

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Post by Gooseberry Sat 22 Jan 2022, 8:11 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:10-2 with both openers gone in the first two overs - you have to ask, is there too much focus on red ball cricket these days impacting the England white ball side?

Edit - 10-3!

At least Root cant take the blame for this! I might change my mind on Dawson if it means never having to suffer Moeen in an England shirt again

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 22 Jan 2022, 8:19 pm

Hey it’s Joel Wilson, our Headingley 2019 king, upto his usuals
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Post by VTR Sat 22 Jan 2022, 8:23 pm

Are you England in disguise!

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Post by Duty281 Sat 22 Jan 2022, 8:24 pm

We're getting a full playthrough of the greatest hits - Roy out in the first over, England's top order troubles, Wilson making an error, Cottrell's salutes...and now Vince out after a promising start.

Bring back the Ashes!

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Post by JDizzle Sat 22 Jan 2022, 8:50 pm

Hosein’s a really tidy spinner. Always at the stumps and a perfect white ball length.


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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 22 Jan 2022, 8:55 pm

I think there is only one logical conclusion

Never allow BT Sport to broadcast another England game ever again
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Post by Duty281 Sat 22 Jan 2022, 8:56 pm

Yes, I like Hosein as a spinner. Very consistent and often takes the new ball in ODIs, gives the ball some nice flight and turn.

49/7. Oh dear. England's lowest T20 total is apparently 80.

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Post by JDizzle Sat 22 Jan 2022, 9:11 pm

Did you know - Chris Jordan was born in the West Indies and Rashid has 10 FC hundreds?

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Post by Duty281 Sat 22 Jan 2022, 9:29 pm

Too many batsmen try the ramp shot, yet it's a skill that can be achieved by only the rarest few. Put the ramp/scoop shot away unless you're Jos Buttler.

103ao. Impressed by a strong West Indian fielding effort and how they exploited the favourable conditions early on.

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Post by JDizzle Sat 22 Jan 2022, 9:42 pm

Think we’ve seen with Holder/Hazlewood’s success in the last few years for Holder and months for Hazlewood that there is still room for a specialist opening bowler in T20s. Long winded way of saying pick David Wiley!

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Post by VTR Sat 22 Jan 2022, 10:08 pm

Duty281 wrote:We're getting a full playthrough of the greatest hits - Roy out in the first over, England's top order troubles, Wilson making an error, Cottrell's salutes...and now Vince out after a promising start.

Bring back the Ashes!

Now for the Shai Hope match-winning knock

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Post by Gooseberry Sat 22 Jan 2022, 11:12 pm

VTR wrote:
Duty281 wrote:We're getting a full playthrough of the greatest hits - Roy out in the first over, England's top order troubles, Wilson making an error, Cottrell's salutes...and now Vince out after a promising start.

Bring back the Ashes!

Now for the Shai Hope match-winning knock

...or maybe a guy with an even lower average

That was awful, not often England have been soundly beaten in white ball in recent years and this must be one of the most one sided spankings theyve taken

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Post by Duty281 Sun 23 Jan 2022, 1:13 pm

VTR wrote:
Duty281 wrote:We're getting a full playthrough of the greatest hits - Roy out in the first over, England's top order troubles, Wilson making an error, Cottrell's salutes...and now Vince out after a promising start.

Bring back the Ashes!

Now for the Shai Hope match-winning knock

Best save something for the tests!

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Post by Duty281 Sun 23 Jan 2022, 8:49 pm

Nice bit of early 2000s punditry by Luke Wright - nudge it round for 2-4 overs, then try to go big at the end.

Next over Jason Roy destroys Allen for 24 runs.

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Post by Gooseberry Sun 23 Jan 2022, 9:31 pm

How does Vince have so many caps

At least Roy and Mo who could make a first choice squad got some runs, and its going to be enough to make a game, but not a great batting display again.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 23 Jan 2022, 9:40 pm

Really good second half from England. Entertaining stuff from Roy and Jordan. 171 should be enough on a tough-ish batting wicket, albeit with small boundaries (offset slightly on one side by a strong breeze).

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Post by JDizzle Sun 23 Jan 2022, 10:29 pm

JDizzle wrote:Think we’ve seen with Holder/Hazlewood’s success in the last few years for Holder and months for Hazlewood that there is still room for a specialist opening bowler in T20s. Long winded way of saying pick David Wiley!

Reece Topley works too! Just doesn’t offer as much elsewhere as Willey.

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Post by Gooseberry Sun 23 Jan 2022, 11:39 pm

Luke wright approach nearly worked for Windies too!

Looks like the death bowling needs work

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Post by Duty281 Sun 23 Jan 2022, 11:56 pm

Looks like England did just enough! West Indies lose by one run, but it was the most comfortable one-run win in cricket history.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 24 Jan 2022, 12:10 am

The death bowling really needs some work when Archer and Mills aren't playing that's for sure. Jordan's been going round the park against good hitters for a while now it seems.

I'm usually championing Dawson but his over was one that I saw live and a touch disappointing in the circumstances. One drag down that went the distance followed by over pitching and going even further.

I really feel that Salt should be playing here. The England white ball set-up is a sneakily old side, especially in the batting. Morgan, Buttler, Roy, Bairstow, Stokes, Root and Malan are all in their 30s. Then two of the backups in Vince and Billings are as well. I'm predominantly an "if they're good enough they're young/old enough" when age is brought up either with players being too young or old. A bit of me does wonder if the England white ball side could fall off a cliff if most of these guys retire in quick succession in a few years.

Morgan's batting remains a worry.

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