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Rest of the World

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JDizzle
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Post by kingraf Tue 04 Jan 2022, 1:30 pm

First topic message reminder :

Big partnership in the context of the game. If they can add another 20-odd, the lead becomes noteworthy in a low scoring slug fest. As is Jansen showing he may well become a #7, while Keshav is playing with the poise of a man who has 3 Test 50s. Very organised. He probably has done himself a disservice, especially in a South African side both devoid of batsmen and obsessed with pace, in not working a little harder on his batting to be a #7.
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Post by Pal Joey Fri 25 Mar 2022, 11:31 am

What a night. First series win by Australia in Pakistan in 26 years, first series win there in the 21st century and Buddy Franklin kicks his 1000th goal! Pandemonium at the SCG as about 20,000 fans flood onto the ground. Amazing scenes all round.
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Post by KP_fan Fri 25 Mar 2022, 11:31 am

Unfortunately didn't watch what was a very high quality series duel between an always dominating Aus over a defiant Pak that fell in the last hour of the last day of the series.

A win against a heavy weight sub continent team in their backyard requires high quality skills, and a lot of physical & mental endurance......and Aus blossomed with all of that.....showing signs of having now yet another truly world class team that will dominate the game for 5 more years .....with only India perhaps a close second
NZ while winner of WTC does not give the impression of being able to come to Ind or Pak and win a series therein

Green has come of age as an all rounder......Lyon would relish his success in subcontinent....and Khwaja....in the purplest patch of his life.....making up for time lost

Pak seemed a bit overwhelmed getting a top series at home after a long time
They have skills...but lacked the mental strength and focus.....and their lower order crumbles lost them the series as the outcome of not as strong mental resoluteness
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Post by Duty281 Fri 25 Mar 2022, 11:44 am

Very good win for Australia, I'm surprised they've won this series. Pakistan made frequent tactical missteps through the series which cost them. I think the incorrect decision to give Azhar Ali out was the turning point, otherwise it would have probably been a draw. Overall, a dull series because of the pitches produced, which the ICC must do something about.

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 25 Mar 2022, 11:56 am

Duty281 wrote:Very good win for Australia, I'm surprised they've won this series. Pakistan made frequent tactical missteps through the series which cost them. I think the incorrect decision to give Azhar Ali out was the turning point, otherwise it would have probably been a draw. Overall, a dull series because of the pitches produced, which the ICC must do something about.

Yeah Duty, but the fact that Australia still managed to extract something out of this pitch in Lahore so convincingly, twice, speaks volumes for their performance. I don't think England would have had the same strike power... so that would have been an even 'duller' predictable result.

I agree whatever the curators did backfired on them in the end and the ICC should act. The first two matches were very difficult to watch.

As it turned out, Cummins learned from the first two matches and then probably heard the spirit of Warne say: "if you don't take risks in such situations... you can't expect to win". This is the Australian mentality.

Joe Root most likely would have batted on yesterday (in the same position) and come away with nothing.

Cummins, on the other hand, came away with a much needed and historic win. That's the difference between an average or below average team and a winning team. It's easy to say now but it was a brave declaration (nothing new) and he must have known he had the capability within himself and the team to take the 20 wickets needed.
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Post by sirfredperry Fri 25 Mar 2022, 1:04 pm

Excellent win by Australia and a well-judged declaration.

PalJoey. Please don't be too hard on Root re timing of a declaration. Cummins has himself and Starc as well as Lyon and some useful others to rely on. Root has....arguably one of the weakest/least experienced attacks England have ever fielded.

Australia will be over for an Ashes series next year and must fancy their chances of a first series win in England since 2001.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 25 Mar 2022, 1:14 pm

Pal Joey wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Very good win for Australia, I'm surprised they've won this series. Pakistan made frequent tactical missteps through the series which cost them. I think the incorrect decision to give Azhar Ali out was the turning point, otherwise it would have probably been a draw. Overall, a dull series because of the pitches produced, which the ICC must do something about.

Yeah Duty, but the fact that Australia still managed to extract something out of this pitch in Lahore so convincingly, twice, speaks volumes for their performance. I don't think England would have had the same strike power... so that would have been an even 'duller' predictable result.

I agree whatever the curators did backfired on them in the end and the ICC should act. The first two matches were very difficult to watch.

As it turned out, Cummins learned from the first two matches and then probably heard the spirit of Warne say: "if you don't take risks in such situations... you can't expect to win". This is the Australian mentality.

Joe Root most likely would have batted on yesterday (in the same position) and come away with nothing.

Cummins, on the other hand, came away with a much needed and historic win. That's the difference between an average or below average team and a winning team. It's easy to say now but it was a brave declaration (nothing new) and he must have known he had the capability within himself and the team to take the 20 wickets needed.

Wasn't a slight on Australia, I think they did very well with their strong bowling attack. England are in a much weaker spot at the moment.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 25 Mar 2022, 1:22 pm

sirfredperry wrote:Excellent win by Australia and a well-judged declaration.

PalJoey. Please don't be too hard on Root re timing of a declaration. Cummins has himself and Starc as well as Lyon and some useful others to rely on. Root has....arguably one of the weakest/least experienced attacks England have ever fielded.

Australia will be over for an Ashes series next year and must fancy their chances of a first series win in England since 2001.

Oh gawd, not another Ashes series.

I'd rather England play someone else, anyone else, than India or Australia for the next few years. I've done a rough calculation that just under 50% of all tests England have played in the past 11 and a half years have been against either Australia or India.

But, yes, Australia should win it. Only Stokes' once in a lifetime knock prevented them from doing so last time.

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Post by VTR Fri 25 Mar 2022, 1:41 pm

I think the ending turns this round from being a dull series. We can now view the two draws in context, and say that after 15 attritional days, it took until the final session of the final day for a winner to emerge. It reminds me a lot of England winning there in 2001, nobody now really remembers that for anything other than the final day

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 25 Mar 2022, 1:50 pm

Duty281 wrote:
sirfredperry wrote:Excellent win by Australia and a well-judged declaration.

PalJoey. Please don't be too hard on Root re timing of a declaration. Cummins has himself and Starc as well as Lyon and some useful others to rely on. Root has....arguably one of the weakest/least experienced attacks England have ever fielded.

Australia will be over for an Ashes series next year and must fancy their chances of a first series win in England since 2001.

Oh gawd, not another Ashes series.

I'd rather England play someone else, anyone else, than India or Australia for the next few years. I've done a rough calculation that just under 50% of all tests England have played in the past 11 and a half years have been against either Australia or India.

But, yes, Australia should win it. Only Stokes' once in a lifetime knock prevented them from doing so last time.

Australia got a huge slice of luck in the first test when Smith was given not out, on review about 49.5% of the ball was hitting the stumps so the decision wasn't overturned. Rain arguably saved Australia in the third test so it's not as simple as narrowing it down to that one Stokes innings.

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar 2022, 2:28 pm

Excellent win for Australia - and Cummins deserves much praise for his bold leadership as well as his fine bowling.

With great respect , though , PJ : I agree with Sir Fred that you might have refrained from the sledge at Root ! I do not think he is a particularly good captain ; but he has actually made a couple of quite attacking declarations in this West Indies series despite lacking much firepower or much sign of pitch wear ... He said himself he might perhaps have pulled out a little earlier in the second match : but in all honesty the conditions and time available left him little chance of forcing a result. I'd suggest his record shows he isn't an especially cautious declarer - he actually lost one to West Indies a few years back declaring , I recall.

Not to say he would have made the Cummins call yesterday - a lot of people , even in the Australian camp , were probably ambivalent about it until the result proved it a success Smile   But I'm not sure we can just assume he wouldn't ...

Anyway , congrats to Australia for the win. And the overseas series win on the first trip out of the country for quite a while thumbsup

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar 2022, 5:59 pm

Also nice to see the Lyon getting a - very important - haull of match winning wickets on a fifth day. He often gets criticised for not doing just that...but I thought he looked pretty threatening on the previous night so not too surprised he did the job for his team this time.

Not a lot from Swepson though - except a good catch. Bit disappointing from him really. ...but it is early days. They will need more than Lyon in Sri Lanka...

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 25 Mar 2022, 9:20 pm

alfie wrote:Excellent win for Australia - and Cummins deserves much praise for his bold leadership as well as his fine bowling.

With great respect , though , PJ : I agree with Sir Fred that you might have refrained from the sledge at Root ! I do not think he is a particularly good captain ; but he has actually made a couple of quite attacking declarations in this West Indies series despite lacking much firepower or much sign of pitch wear ... He said himself he might perhaps have pulled out a little earlier in the second match : but in all honesty the conditions and time available left him little chance of forcing a result. I'd suggest his record shows he isn't an especially cautious declarer - he actually lost one to West Indies a few years back declaring , I recall.

Not to say he would have made the Cummins call yesterday - a lot of people , even in the Australian camp , were probably ambivalent about it until the result proved it a success Smile   But I'm not sure we can just assume he wouldn't ...

Anyway , congrats to Australia for the win. And the overseas series win on the first trip out of the country for quite a while thumbsup

It wasn't a sledge at Root, alfie. Just saying that he most likely wouldn't have made his declaration as soon as Cummins did.
I'm not sure a lot of people, even in the Australian camp, were as ambivalent as most have expressed on here.

Thanks for your congratulations. Let's see if England can win a match. It's been a long, long while.  Smile

Anyway, it was great to see Sir Fred's favourite player, Nathan Lyon, get his 5 wickets. And deep down, he's probably relieved Ash Barty retired. Crying or Very sad
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Post by alfie Sat 26 Mar 2022, 4:00 pm

Yeah OK. But you're speculating really . I just thought it was unnecessary to bring Root into it.

No big deal. And yes , it would be nice to see England win a match some time again soon. Not holding my breath , I'm afraid Cool

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Post by kingraf Sat 26 Mar 2022, 4:11 pm

That's a helluva ton.
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Post by kingraf Sat 26 Mar 2022, 4:13 pm

Lmao. Keep bowling
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Post by Galted Sat 26 Mar 2022, 4:47 pm

kingraf wrote:Lmao. Keep bowling

This isn't really the place for gloating, raf, that would be the Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread.
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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 26 Mar 2022, 5:12 pm

Pal Joey wrote:
It wasn't a sledge at Root, alfie. Just saying that he most likely wouldn't have made his declaration as soon as Cummins did.
I'm not sure a lot of people, even in the Australian camp, were as ambivalent as most have expressed on here.


I'm not too inclined to defend Root's but captaincy but two points; firstly two fairly aggressive declarations by Root in the series and THAT bizarre decision by Cummins in the second test.

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Post by kingraf Sun 27 Mar 2022, 9:40 am

So South Africa vs England, Australia vs West Indies in the Women's semi finals. Hard to see past Australia in their game. South Africa England came to the final over so it could go either way. South Africa will feel confident with back to back scores in excess of 270, as well as the Best attack in the tournament though. Women's cricket has come a long way but Jesus do these ladies let some really bad balls go unpunished
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Post by JDizzle Sun 27 Mar 2022, 10:55 am

SA definitely favourites vs England. They’ve been on the right side of basically all the close games they have played this tournament, so my hope is that their luck has to run out at some point! I just have no faith in this England batting line up - apparently their opening stand this WC is 12.85. That’s not winning you a WC.

Not that it really matters to Australia, but I think WI is a better draw for them. India were the side that ended their long unbeaten run in ODIs and probably have more players who could win the game on their own. Aus clearly would have been huge favourites vs either though.

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Post by alfie Sun 27 Mar 2022, 12:45 pm

Obviously Australia and SA are heavy favourites to meet in the final...but this is knockout one day stuff so nothing can be guaranteed.

I share your concern about the England batting , JD : but the bowling appears to be in good shape coming to the semis - and in fact the team may just be peaking at the right time. So I'm not writing them off.

Whole competition has been largely interesting in terms of close games and upsets. Hoping for good contests in the finals now...

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Post by kingraf Sun 27 Mar 2022, 1:01 pm

Hope for two good games. The way South Africa are playing - as I said best bowling attack in the world AND they've cracked 270+ both chasing and setting in their last two games - they probably win if they play at their best and England play at their best. The issue is they dropped seven catches vs Australia, and had three run outs vs India, so good as they are, the ladies are liable to fall apart if you push them hard enough.
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Post by alfie Sun 27 Mar 2022, 1:19 pm

Probably fair to say SA have been the big surprise package of this tournament. We knew they had some good players ; but they have surely reached new peaks here. Had the odd wobble- but still found ways to win. And as you say , raf , two really impressive batting displays in these latest games. Chasing down India today was huge , even if they had the freedom to know it made no difference to their already guaranteed position.

Think the battle between the SA bats and England's spinners will be key to the game.

Cannot really see West Indies troubling Australia , to be honest. But ...

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Post by kingraf Sun 27 Mar 2022, 1:35 pm

alfie wrote:Probably fair to say SA have been the big surprise package of this tournament.  We knew they had some good players ; but they have surely reached new peaks here. Had the odd wobble- but still found ways to win. And as you say , raf , two really impressive batting displays in these latest games. Chasing down India today was huge  , even if they had the freedom to know it made no difference to their already guaranteed position.

Think the battle between the SA bats and England's spinners will be key to the game.

Cannot really see West Indies troubling Australia , to be honest.  But ...

We were only the #2 side in the world coming into this Alfie! But yeah, the ladies have shown great application. Having never chased 200 in the competition, they've now done it three times. It's the progression of professionalism. More of the ladies are playing in the Big Bash and 100, etc. More of them have central contracts which allow them to not need to work "off season" jobs, and you can see the difference it makes. So much fitter. So much more skillful. It's bizarre that professionalism and money apparently did the opposite for men's cricket 😉.

Sophie Ecclestone vs our spinners will be interesting. We saw her off in the group stages, but I'm not convinced that was the right tactic. Indeed it almost blew up in our face. Comparatively, Sune Luus came into this tournament having averaged with the ball last year, and 11 the year before - and she's looked about as impotent as Jack Leach this summer. You'd think she's gonna turn the corner at some point. My eternal crush on Tammy Beaumont means I wouldn't be too sad if England won, but here's hoping the form book remains consistent.
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Post by JDizzle Sun 27 Mar 2022, 4:50 pm

I see a lot of (erroneous IMO) criticism of England Men being a closed shop, but the Women’s side are far worse! For example, last night Freya Davies played as Shrubsole was ‘rested’ but she clearly isn’t fully fit. Davies was then the sixth bowler used as Sciver opened - pointless.

Like when Emma Lamb played in the last game and was carded to come in number 7 when she is an opener and England only have one opener! Would like to see her in over Cross (as they won’t leave out Shrubsole) though as Brunt/Anya/Sciver/Ecclestone/Dean/Knight is enough bowling.

SA are doing all this without Van Niekerk too, which makes it all the more impressive. And can England knock over Woolvardt early…

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Post by JDizzle Thu 31 Mar 2022, 7:38 am

Good to wake up to see England well on top vs SA, with 200 needed from 25 - and 9 Ecclestone overs in that.

Superb knock from Wyatt, 129 off 125. That is how to cement your place at the top of the order!

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Post by kingraf Thu 31 Mar 2022, 7:42 am

Pretty disastrous. Complete choke job in the field. Six dropped catches. Four of them were Wyatt. Many of them likely would have been the killshot, given how porous England's lower order had been up to now. Lots to wonder for the girls, especially with Khaka, Kapp and Ismail all on the other side of 30 this year.

Didn't help that we nominally have the WODI player of the year and the #1 Batter in the world at the top of the order and they combined for all of 2 runs in the chase
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Post by Pal Joey Thu 31 Mar 2022, 8:40 am

6 for Ecclestone now. England certainly has put in increasingly better performances since their first 3 games. I think that sort of momentum is very important in these tournaments. The very early two SA wickets were the best possible start... Wolvaardt being one of them, who was SA's best hope to score big and have an innings similar to Wyatt - who I believe also grew stronger as the tournament has progressed. Seems to be all coming together for England at the right time.

It should be another great final. In a way, Australia are under a bit of pressure having won 8 from 8. Always a chance something could go wrong on the day... as we saw with SA today. Even if Australia go into the final as slight favourites; it's just about 50:50 on the day to my way of thinking.

Both teams have a lot of depth and experience. It will be interesting to see what the captain who wins the toss on Sunday decides to do. Both teams can chase big totals and both teams can set big totals. Both are pretty fearless too. This will be the first time these two teams have met in a Women's WC Final since 1988.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 31 Mar 2022, 8:47 am

Two test series between South Africa and Bangladesh starts today. Bangladesh on a high after winning the ODI series and beating NZ in a test a couple of months ago. Both teams missing a few names, with Harmer back in the test arena.

Bangladesh: 1 Mominul Haque, 2 Shadman Islam, 3 Mahmudul Hasan Joy, 4 Najmul Hossain Shanto, 5 Mushfiqur Rahim, 6 Yasir Ali, 7 Litton Das (wk), 8 Mehidy Hasan Miraz, 9 Taskin Ahmed, 10 Khaled Ahmed, 11 Ebadot Hossain

South Africa: 1 Dean Elgar, 2 Sarel Erwee, 3 Kegan Petersen, 4 Temba Bavuma, 5 Ryan Rickleton, 6 Kyle Verreynne (wk), 7 Wiaan Mulder, 8 Keshav Maharaj, 9 Simon Harmer, 10 Lizaad Williams, 11 Duanne Olivier

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Post by kingraf Thu 31 Mar 2022, 8:55 am

Australia will be massive favourites. At least South Africa had the intrigue of being the better bowling attack. England have the best bowler in the tournament, but otherwise, Australia are better literally every other department. This is a knock-out event, not a league, so sustainability doesn't matter as much, but Wyatt aside, no one in England's top five scored more than 30 runs, and Wyatt could have been out for 18, and 32, and a couple other times. Given the fact that she averages 11 against Australia, I don't think it's plausible that she has another day out.

I'd say 75/25 Australia. Ecclestone is probably the key. A cricket team can't actually be heliocentric, I don't think, but it'll be tough for England if Australia get hold of her like they did earlier in the tournament
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Post by Pal Joey Thu 31 Mar 2022, 9:39 am

kingraf wrote:Australia will be massive favourites. At least South Africa had the intrigue of being the better bowling attack. England have the best bowler in the tournament, but otherwise, Australia are better literally every other department. This is a knock-out event, not a league, so sustainability doesn't matter as much, but Wyatt aside, no one in England's top five scored more than 30 runs, and Wyatt could have been out for 18, and 32, and a couple other times. Given the fact that she averages 11 against Australia, I don't think it's plausible that she has another day out.

I'd say 75/25 Australia. Ecclestone is probably the key. A cricket team can't actually be heliocentric, I don't think, but it'll be tough for England if Australia get hold of her like they did earlier in the tournament

Yes, I note Wyatt's average is low against Australia. Whilst individual Australian players might not rank top individually at the moment or in this WC, practically half the team has been at the top of the perch individually in their chosen discipline for long periods in recent times. All together they have been the most successful group of women cricketers ever put together with England coming closest to challenging their domination. India are impressive too.

I'd like to see teams like SA and WI continue to grow stronger and for that to happen they'll have to field full strength sides with one or two more key players added to the mix to minimise any slight deficiencies there are in their current sides. SA really missed Dane van Niekerk... she would have been of great use in today's match.


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Post by VTR Thu 31 Mar 2022, 10:21 am

Australia about 80/20 for the final I would say. England have a chance as any cricket team in a one off game can have a bad game with the bat. It's still far more likely that team is England than Australia though. Australia also unlikely to drop catches off the same player 4 times!

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Post by alfie Thu 31 Mar 2022, 11:20 am

Well now...that was a very good performance from England when they needed it , to beat a very good SA team quite comfortably in the end.

I see comments about SA dropped catches : fair enough ; but if you've been watching much of this tournament you'll have noted that dropped catches have featured in rather a lot of the games ! Australia's biggest run scorers have benefited on more than one occasion from being dropped early and more than once...  Without wishing to denigrate the women's game (my sister would never forgive me !) I think it is fair to say that catching remains the weakest part by comparison - at least in terms of consistency. It will get better : years ago the whole fielding aspect of their game was pretty poor ; but throwing for example has massively improved. I won't go on too much : but would also point out that the SA boundary fielding in the early stages was often quite brilliant and saved a lot of runs.

Wyatt took full advantage of her good fortune and really did play an excellent innings. Great support from Dunkley too ; but the really encouraging thing from an England point of view was that Beaumont Knight and Sciver all failed to get going. And they still made 293...

Didn't manage to catch the early part of the SA innings ; but it appears the (lately much maligned ) Shrubsole again produced a big effort at the right time : OK I get she doesn't exactly look the picture of fitness ; but she has a habit of winning the big moments (collapsed India late in the last WC final ; got England a one wicket win in an effective knock out v NZ recently) just two examples : by the time she had SA 8/2 this one was all over.  Ecclestone was (predictably) great but she basically just mopped up.

All credit to SA for their performances in this WC.  They justified their high ranking (my own reservations about how much it really meant stemmed from their poor record against Australia and England in matches that really count) and can say they were unfortunate to have a bit of an off day with the ball (Ismail apart) and in the field - and for Wolvaardt to fail at the wrong time. They can still take a lot from this tournament , even if they will feel a bit flat right now OK

I think the two best teams are meeting in the final...one benefit of these round robin qualifications is that this generally happens. Australia will obviously start favourite ; but England actually pushed them quite hard despite all the flaws in their game early in the event which nearly cost them progress (remember they lost by just 12 runs after giving away a ridiculous 21 wides): they appear to be peaking now so might actually make this a good contest. They will need to stand up with the bat : but if they do , the Ecclestone factor may be big.

One other little point : we will see the best batter in the women's game up against the best bowler - which is surely an appropriate thing for a final. Hope the weather plays fair...

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Post by alfie Thu 31 Mar 2022, 12:07 pm

Australia on track to clean up Pakistan again , I see.

May be missing a few players but they are on a roll , it seems. Head making the most of his opportunities again : he's had a good few months. I do have to raise the question : on their home grounds and all , got some promising players and some with truly fine records - but are Pakistan perhaps not very good ? Guess we will see going forward...

Regardless : this has been a very good tour for Australia , whatever happens from here. Their away record - well they haven't been away for a while ! has had a nice boost. Will give them confidence for future trips ... the next one to India might be very interesting.


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Post by Duty281 Thu 31 Mar 2022, 12:27 pm

That would be a really impressive ODI series win for Australia, as they've gone in with such a threadbare squad and missing a load of first-team players.

South Africa 106/0 v Bangladesh, after the tourists opted to bowl first. That one could be effectively over already. Play was delayed by thirty minutes after an utter farce with the sightscreen.

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Post by kingraf Thu 31 Mar 2022, 12:55 pm

alfie wrote:Well now...that was a very good performance from England when they needed it , to beat a very good SA team quite comfortably in the end.

I see comments about SA dropped catches : fair enough ; but if you've been watching much of this tournament you'll have noted that dropped catches have featured in rather a lot of the games ! Australia's biggest run scorers have benefited on more than one occasion from being dropped early and more than once...  Without wishing to denigrate the women's game (my sister would never forgive me !) I think it is fair to say that catching remains the weakest part by comparison - at least in terms of consistency. It will get better : years ago the whole fielding aspect of their game was pretty poor ; but throwing for example has massively improved. I won't go on too much : but would also point out that the SA boundary fielding in the early stages was often quite brilliant and saved a lot of runs.

Wyatt took full advantage of her good fortune and really did play an excellent innings. Great support from Dunkley too ; but the really encouraging thing from an England point of view was that Beaumont Knight and Sciver all failed to get going. And they still made 293...

Didn't manage to catch the early part of the SA innings ; but it appears the (lately much maligned ) Shrubsole again produced a big effort at the right time : OK I get she doesn't exactly look the picture of fitness ; but she has a habit of winning the big moments (collapsed India late in the last WC final ; got England a one wicket win in an effective knock out v NZ recently)  just two examples : by the time she had SA 8/2 this one was all over.  Ecclestone was (predictably) great but she basically just mopped up.

All credit to SA for their performances in this WC.  They justified their high ranking (my own reservations about how much it really meant stemmed from their poor record against Australia and England in matches that really count) and can say they were unfortunate to have a bit of an off day with the ball (Ismail apart) and in the field - and for Wolvaardt to fail at the wrong time. They can still take a lot from this tournament , even if they will feel a bit flat right now OK

I think the two best teams are meeting in the final...one benefit of these round robin qualifications is that this generally happens. Australia will obviously start favourite ; but England actually pushed them quite hard despite all the flaws in their game early in the event which nearly cost them progress (remember they lost by just 12 runs after giving away a ridiculous 21 wides): they appear to be peaking now so might actually make this a good contest. They will need to stand up with the bat : but if they do , the Ecclestone factor may be big.

One other little point : we will see the best batter in the women's game up against the best bowler - which is surely an appropriate thing for a final. Hope the weather plays fair...

You raise some points, and of course research suggests that women do have less spatial awareness, so it's very well possible that dropped catches is a more embedded aspect of the women's than the men's game, in the same way women's tennis has more breaks of serve etc. But the truth is Wyatt probably made the difference, and England could and should have been 20/2 or 120/5 at various points. You don't get points for drops, so South Africa can't count themselves unlucky. But, it does mean that while England posted a pretty impressive total, I'm not sure their batting performed in a manner where I think its sustainable.

As a side note, I thought differently of the throwing from the boundary. It's actually one of my bug bears, where I think the women's game is taking its norms from the men's - with the exception of some gun arms, like Ismail and Perry I swear two runs are on any time you hit it five meters either side of the boundary rider because it's hitting the wicket keeper on the second bounce.
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Post by alfie Thu 31 Mar 2022, 1:23 pm

kingraf wrote:
alfie wrote:Well now...that was a very good performance from England when they needed it , to beat a very good SA team quite comfortably in the end.

I see comments about SA dropped catches : fair enough ; but if you've been watching much of this tournament you'll have noted that dropped catches have featured in rather a lot of the games ! Australia's biggest run scorers have benefited on more than one occasion from being dropped early and more than once...  Without wishing to denigrate the women's game (my sister would never forgive me !) I think it is fair to say that catching remains the weakest part by comparison - at least in terms of consistency. It will get better : years ago the whole fielding aspect of their game was pretty poor ; but throwing for example has massively improved. I won't go on too much : but would also point out that the SA boundary fielding in the early stages was often quite brilliant and saved a lot of runs.

Wyatt took full advantage of her good fortune and really did play an excellent innings. Great support from Dunkley too ; but the really encouraging thing from an England point of view was that Beaumont Knight and Sciver all failed to get going. And they still made 293...

Didn't manage to catch the early part of the SA innings ; but it appears the (lately much maligned ) Shrubsole again produced a big effort at the right time : OK I get she doesn't exactly look the picture of fitness ; but she has a habit of winning the big moments (collapsed India late in the last WC final ; got England a one wicket win in an effective knock out v NZ recently)  just two examples : by the time she had SA 8/2 this one was all over.  Ecclestone was (predictably) great but she basically just mopped up.

All credit to SA for their performances in this WC.  They justified their high ranking (my own reservations about how much it really meant stemmed from their poor record against Australia and England in matches that really count) and can say they were unfortunate to have a bit of an off day with the ball (Ismail apart) and in the field - and for Wolvaardt to fail at the wrong time. They can still take a lot from this tournament , even if they will feel a bit flat right now OK

I think the two best teams are meeting in the final...one benefit of these round robin qualifications is that this generally happens. Australia will obviously start favourite ; but England actually pushed them quite hard despite all the flaws in their game early in the event which nearly cost them progress (remember they lost by just 12 runs after giving away a ridiculous 21 wides): they appear to be peaking now so might actually make this a good contest. They will need to stand up with the bat : but if they do , the Ecclestone factor may be big.

One other little point : we will see the best batter in the women's game up against the best bowler - which is surely an appropriate thing for a final. Hope the weather plays fair...

You raise some points, and of course research suggests that women do have less spatial awareness, so it's very well possible that dropped catches is a more embedded aspect of the women's than the men's game, in the same way women's tennis has more breaks of serve etc. But the truth is Wyatt probably made the difference, and England could and should have been 20/2 or 120/5 at various points. You don't get points for drops, so South Africa can't count themselves unlucky. But, it does mean that while England posted a pretty impressive total, I'm not sure their batting performed in a manner where I think its sustainable.

As a side note, I thought differently of the throwing from the boundary. It's actually one of my bug bears, where I think the women's game is taking its norms from the men's - with the exception of some gun arms, like Ismail and Perry I swear two runs are on any time you hit it five meters either side of the boundary rider because it's hitting the wicket keeper on the second bounce.

You should have seen what it was like fifteen years ago Smile

I do share your reservations about the England batting , by the way. I don't expect Wyatt to repeat that effort on Sunday , though I hope she keeps playing her shots as well as she did. Same time I'd expect a few more from the rest of the top five...we will see.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 31 Mar 2022, 1:49 pm

Duty281 wrote:That would be a really impressive ODI series win for Australia, as they've gone in with such a threadbare squad and missing a load of first-team players.

South Africa 106/0 v Bangladesh, after the tourists opted to bowl first. That one could be effectively over already. Play was delayed by thirty minutes after an utter farce with the sightscreen.

Bangladesh have them three down for around 150 now, but I was surprised to see they decided to bowl first when SA are playing both Harmer and Maharaj.
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Post by JDizzle Thu 31 Mar 2022, 2:01 pm

I don’t think even England see Wyatt as reliable or long term option at the top of the order to be honest. As she is only there out of desperation at LWHs form! She’s had a long enough international career now that we know she will produce occasional destructive innings (she does have a T20 100 vs Australia) but generally she will be streaky. Albeit her overall record is clouded by a lot of innings down the order and the fact she started off mainly as an off spinner!

England will likely need one of the big three in Knight, Sciver or Tammy to go big and hope everyone else can chip in. Dunkley has been the major plus point for England this tournament, outside of Ecclestone, so she should be integral to this side going forward. I’ve banged this drum for a few years now, but Ecclestone should work on her batting and she could be a destructive hitter - especially in T20. She has rare height and power in the women’s game.

Ecclestone will gobble up any middle order that isn’t Australian, so the fact that England were able to get early wickets almost made it easy for her. No-one has the depth outside of the Aussies to have their 5/6/7 take her down at a high rate for an extended period.

England should definitely try and chase in the final too. I don’t think any total is too big for the Aussies to chase.

As a fellow small handed individual, I will forever be using that excuse that it makes catching harder. But if you look certainly at the best catches I have seen play for England (Flintoff/Jordan/Tres) all had buckets as hands. It does make it easier.

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Post by kingraf Thu 31 Mar 2022, 2:24 pm

Funny enough, I've got average sized hands from the base of the hand to the tip of my middle finger, and I've always rated my hands as pretty damn good for the level I played. So I always thought that was a bit of a weak excuse. Then i found out the NFL measures hand size from thumb to pinky, and using that metric, I've actually got hands about 2 inches above average. And I imagine this is the more important measure for catching.

Personal tidbit aside, Temba Bavuma is an extraordinary fielder, as were Herschelle Gibbs and Jonty Rhodes before him and I don't think any of them had giant mitts. Just get good, lol.
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Post by JDizzle Thu 31 Mar 2022, 2:50 pm

I’ll take your word on Bavuma! Clearly an exceptional outfielder but I’ve never seen enough of his catching. Warne was another who famously had massively strong wrists and absolute buckets - and was great in the slips bar the second session of Day 5 at the Oval in 05.

NFL teams measure it on QBs for a reason! Not that it is the be all and end all, but it’s in the pot of things that definitely help.

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Post by alfie Fri 01 Apr 2022, 10:40 am

I see I managed to hex the Australian one day outfit : was very surprised to see Pakistan chased down 350 !

Well done them ; but I wouldn't be too bothered from an Australian point of view given the absences from the bowling group. Think in the long run it is a good thing to give fringe players and new prospects a chance to show what they can do - and even if they can't , at this stage , they will hopefully learn from it.

I really don't think I would fancy bowling in Pakistan Smile

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 03 Apr 2022, 6:31 am

170 in a World Cup final - unbelievable innings by Alyssa Healy
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Post by alfie Sun 03 Apr 2022, 7:44 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:170 in a World Cup final - unbelievable innings by Alyssa Healy

It certainly was ! She was dropped on 42 but otherwise hadn't a care in the world...unfortunately she more or less killed this game in the first half Smile

Sciver doing her best to take the fight to Australia with the bat : and in fact England are some way ahead of the Australian run rate for this stage of the innings. The problem being they have lost four wickets ...

356 is a huge score even on this very bat friendly surface. Suspect Knight may be wondering if she'd have been better advised to bat first and let the Aussies have the scoreboard pressure to contend with !

But in truth the Aussie top three were just fantastic today. Just have to raise your hat to them ...if England get near that total I will eat mine Smile

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Post by JDizzle Sun 03 Apr 2022, 8:24 am

Great knock from Sciver. Two hundreds in two games in this WC against Australia is no mean feat.

And I thought the Aussies played well in the group stages - they’ve gone up about three gears for the KO rounds. Too good.

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Post by alfie Sun 03 Apr 2022, 8:35 am

Has been a really valiant effort from Sciver - thoroughly deserved her hundred clap

But despite keeping England (rather surprisingly !) ahead of the Aussie run rate for so long , the loss of so many of her partners has cruelled any chance of pulling off a miracle chase.

Alan's King finished now with 3/64 from her ten. Gone for runs , yes : but she's taken the wickets they needed thumbsup

250 up in the 39th. Need another 104 from 69 balls... Sciver might be Stokes ; but they probably don't have a Leach Smile

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Post by alfie Sun 03 Apr 2022, 9:15 am

All done and Australia with a 71 run margin which in truth reflects their dominance in this tournament. Undefeated - and rarely even challenged seriously. A lot of match winners : was Healy today but others are equally capable ...gong to be hard to compete with in the immediate future.

Great try from Sciver in response but she needed more support from the top order bats. She is one who must continue as England will presumably look to do a bit of rebuilding now with one or two older players perhaps calling it a day. The likes of Dunkley , Dean and Ecclestone will get better ; but they will need some new pace bowlers as Brunt looked to find this one season too many and Shrubsole won't go on for ever.

Tonight it is just congrats to Australia clap clap clap

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Post by Pal Joey Sun 03 Apr 2022, 9:23 am

Thanks alfie!  Smile

Thoroughly entertaining cricket match. Superb batting by Healy and Sciver. Both colossal performances in a World Cup Final. Commiserations to all you England fans. You should be proud of that effort. It was a remarkably brave fight chasing that huge total.

Australia took a little time to get moving but once they did confidence grew and that opening pair batted with such control. They played Ecclestone, Brunt and Sciver very well, which was critical and then put a lot of pressure on Charlie Dean. Anya Shrubsole bowled very well but just didn't have the support from the rest of the bowling group.

The early breakthrough wickets from Schutt were crucial and added to the pressure of such a huge chase. Which made Sciver's knock even more special under those circumstances. As alfie said, England were well ahead of the run rate but the steady loss of wickets eroded any chance of reaching that run total.

Some might query Heather's decision to send Australia into bat but she/they obviously knew how they wanted to approach this match. On another day it might have paid off. A risk, maybe... but still a brave decision to make.

Thought it was a great game, some real talent on both sides. Worthy of a WC final match. Enjoyed the tournament as a whole. I'm so impressed by improvements in batting, bowling, fielding, the general all round play and the quality of the sporting spectacle itself. They're a fit and resilient bunch of women for the most part! They must be knackered after all that... both physically and mentally.


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Post by kingraf Sun 03 Apr 2022, 9:25 am

1 - England waited too long to bring Ecclestone on.
2 - When they did bring her on, she was smashed.

Once those two things happened, England had no chance.

Good tournament, the standard of women's cricket has come such a long way. But the standard bearer remains the standard bearer. Congratulations to Australia.
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Post by Pal Joey Sun 03 Apr 2022, 9:29 am

Cheers raf. OK
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Post by Duty281 Sun 03 Apr 2022, 3:45 pm

Very sluggish progress between South Africa and Bangladesh, with Bangladesh's over rate at or just below 13 an hour despite most of the overs being delivered by spin.

Upshot is Bangladesh need 274 to win on a surface very favourable to bowlers.

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