The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

+21
sirfredperry
Jeff Navarro
Pal Joey
Hibbz
Dolphin Ziggler
Mind the windows Tino.
guildfordbat
msp83
GSC
Lowlandbrit
Jetty
Soul Requiem
dummy_half
king_carlos
AlciG
alfie
Duty281
Good Golly I'm Olly
JDizzle
Gooseberry
VTR
25 posters

Page 4 of 16 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10 ... 16  Next

Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by VTR Mon 24 Jan 2022, 8:09 am

First topic message reminder :

Don't know anything about that number 9 and 10, are they decent hitters that just happen to be low in the order, or were England again awarding outlier performances to the opposition?

VTR

Posts : 4252
Join date : 2012-03-23
Location : Fine Leg

king_carlos likes this post

Back to top Go down


Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 10 Feb 2022, 11:02 am

Yes saw the Root news and Foakes confirmation from Strauss - he also noted a reserve opener is among the Covid reserves (albeit didn't name who it was, as JDizzle noted they're being elusive on these to avoid the Clarke stuff, which is ridiculous!) - but if Crawley/Lees were to go down on the day of the game, Lawrence would be the emergency reserve opener, with these covid lads not travelling out to the West Indies with them.

So we know for sure now

Crawley
Lees
Root
???? (Pope or Lawrence)
Stokes
???? (probably Bairstow)
Foakes (wk)
Robinson
Wood
???? (one of Woakes/Mahmood most likely)
???? (Leach/Parkinson most likely)

Is the probable XI...
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly
Tractor Boy
Tractor Boy

Posts : 49576
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 26
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Gooseberry Thu 10 Feb 2022, 1:26 pm

Talk was that they are focused on Woakes, Robinson and Wood to be bowling leaders which suggests starting the 3. Strauss is apparently keen to get back to the Ed Smith approach of having a core of away bowlers, and still appears to believe Woakes could be one of these. Slight suggestion he wasnt to happy with the reasons why Ed Smith was sacked which might also have played into why Broad isnt going. Also might explain why Bess isnt going, aside from them only needing two spinners.

It seems mad not to send another opener...be that Burns or Hameed as a covid replacement, not just for the potential need to utilise one but also for additional time getting to work with whatever coaches they actually have for this. Understand them wanting the opening pair to feel secure in their selection for the series, but they need as much as possible put into trying to get a functional group of top 3 players.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Duty281 Thu 10 Feb 2022, 1:29 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I see Angus Fraser was peddling the “building for the next away Ashes” line on Sky today - if they make that the sole objective when the new leadership is appointed we might as well pack up now

The first ball of the next away Ashes series will simultaneously be the first ball of the preparation for the all-important 29/30 Ashes series.

Duty281

Posts : 27024
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Good Golly I'm Olly likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Duty281 Thu 10 Feb 2022, 1:35 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Yes saw the Root news and Foakes confirmation from Strauss - he also noted a reserve opener is among the Covid reserves (albeit didn't name who it was, as JDizzle noted they're being elusive on these to avoid the Clarke stuff, which is ridiculous!) - but if Crawley/Lees were to go down on the day of the game, Lawrence would be the emergency reserve opener, with these covid lads not travelling out to the West Indies with them.

So we know for sure now

Crawley
Lees
Root
???? (Pope or Lawrence)
Stokes
???? (probably Bairstow)
Foakes (wk)
Robinson
Wood
???? (one of Woakes/Mahmood most likely)
???? (Leach/Parkinson most likely)

Is the probable XI...

Stokes may move up to four, I suppose. I wonder what chance Fisher gets at least one test?

We'll see what Lees can do. I haven't seen a lot of him, but his statistics don't make for the best reading, with a SR barely better than Sibley, and a career average of 35 in the FC game. Only one century last season, too.

Duty281

Posts : 27024
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Soul Requiem Thu 10 Feb 2022, 1:38 pm

The make up of the squad looks all wrong to me, building to the future but including Woakes away and Bairstow, there's no real logic to the selections.

My preferred eleven would look something like;

Lees
????
Crawley (he's not an opener, his technical issues can be covered to an extent at three)
Root
Stokes
Bairstow or Pope (both in last chance saloon territory)
Foakes
Robinson
Wood
Leach
Mahmood

There's little point in selecting Woakes as he's next to useless abroad.

Soul Requiem

Posts : 5578
Join date : 2019-07-16

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by JDizzle Thu 10 Feb 2022, 1:57 pm

From what I’ve read, Strauss has said Foakes is the number one WK. So he seems locked in at 7.

Lawrence is the reserve opener - I mean he did do it once in 2015… so just hope Lees doesn’t slip coming out of the shower.

The Woakes selection is very odd. If you want someone who can bat at 8, just pick Overton. Sure, he might not be as good as Woakes with the bat and there might be doubts about his effectiveness with the ball away from England, but those doubts are facts about Woakes with the ball! Let’s just see it.

JDizzle

Posts : 6373
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Gooseberry Thu 10 Feb 2022, 2:34 pm

JDizzle wrote:From what I’ve read, Strauss has said Foakes is the number one WK. So he seems locked in at 7.

Lawrence is the reserve opener - I mean he did do it once in 2015… so just hope Lees doesn’t slip coming out of the shower.

The Woakes selection is very odd. If you want someone who can bat at 8, just pick Overton. Sure, he might not be as good as Woakes with the bat and there might be doubts about his effectiveness with the ball away from England, but those doubts are facts about Woakes with the ball! Let’s just see it.


Apparently Strauss / Colllingwood back Woakes to make it as an overseas bowler, he has the range of skills to make the ball move on all kinds of puddings as shown in white ball. There was some fallout with Root over the lengths he bowled in the first Ashes test, encouragement is going to be top get him to pitch it up. Hes also seen as a senior bowler post Broad/Anderson (and lets face it Wood wont be there long either). Overton pigeoned as a home specialist.

Can disagree with it but theres a plan and logic. Personally I thought we had seen the last of Woakes oversees and that he'd be best served focusing on white ball, but we will see I guess. Again it did take Broad in particular a long time to become a threat overseas and after several iterations of nbeing asked to bowl different lengths and speeds, and often playing second fiddle. Onus is now on Woakes to do something with his chance.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Gooseberry Thu 10 Feb 2022, 2:42 pm

msp83 wrote:Contrary to media speculations of him being ordered to bat 3, Sir Andrew claims that Joe Root in fact insisted to the selection committee, that he absolutely will have to bat at 3 and not anywhere else! Interesting!

Missed this nugget. So its Root who's a clueless moron the eh. He probably AXED Anderson too Rolling Eyes

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Duty281 Sun 13 Feb 2022, 12:25 am

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-10506413/STUART-BROAD-Im-waking-angrier-day-dropped-standards-slipped.html

Stuart Broad unloads. He's too good for these clueless establishment morons who run the game into rack and ruin.

Duty281

Posts : 27024
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Jetty Sun 13 Feb 2022, 12:43 am

Feel sorry for Broad, he gets lumped with Anderson but he is 4 years younger. He could go on for another 3 years. Feel the Director of Cricket will be English and the coach foreign.

Jetty

Posts : 257
Join date : 2011-06-01

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Soul Requiem Sun 13 Feb 2022, 12:55 am

The selectors don't have a clue, you don't mess around with the part of the team that's working. Root bats at four and you manage the seamers, you don't drop them completely.

Soul Requiem

Posts : 5578
Join date : 2019-07-16

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 1:00 am

Only interesting thing in there is that he was told the reason for leaving him out was, "a change of tack in playing abroad". Given Broad and Anderson seem unlikely to manage many more winters that is a reason with some logic behind it.

Also worth noting that Broad averaged the best part of 40 across 2021. Compared to 14 in 2021 before. So there was a drop off there until he bowled very well in the final two Ashes Tests.

What I don't understand is Woakes being there to improve overseas performance. It's the Dukes in Windies and Woakes can bowl the wobble seam well which is becoming so lethal in red ball cricket. Maybe they have a hope he can become effective by bowling different lengths and relying on seam rather than swing. I don't really see it though.

Robinson, if he can improve his fitness massively, looks a bowler made for where seam bowling is moving at the moment. His wrist is excellent at bowling that wobble seam consistently and the height he does it from only makes it more effective.

I also think Saqib Mahmood could be a good bowler in that modern ilk. Bowling the types of lengths that Cummins has settled onto so well at high pace. Wobble seam from wide of the crease so that if it decks away it challenges the outside edge but if it nips in it challenges LBW and bowled. I can see Mahmood being effective in that style. He's not as quick as Cummins but certainly quick enough if he can be accurate and get the seam right.

I think my preferred bowling lineup would be Robinson, Wood, Mahmood and a spinner. I think that's a good mix of bowlers to get some experience. From there I can understand not wanting to make Broad or Anderson as drinks carriers. Doing so would just leave this furore for T1 D1 rather than when the squad was picked.

For a while now it's felt like so much noise around England is centered around the two senior seamers. As much as anything it's just getting a bit tedious. If Broad and Anderson retire at the same time and other bowlers haven't had some Test experience all the talk would be about the lack of forward planning. If there's an attempt to look ahead the furore is over the opposite.

Selection for T1 of the Ashes felt like that. Had Anderson or Broad been picked with absolutely no warm-up due to the weather and schedule, then picked up an injury the selection would have been absolutely slammed for taking a risk. But if you don't take that risk on senior seamers, with no overs and recent injuries they get slammed for the precise opposite. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Increasingly lazy, click bait inspired punditry in cricket only seems to encourage those sorts of arguments as well.

king_carlos

Posts : 9440
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

alfie likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by VTR Sun 13 Feb 2022, 7:58 am

Yep, the Broad thing is becoming a bit of a circus. How many Broady ain't happy articles do we need. It's starting to feel a lot like the last days of KP, which was tedious to say the least

VTR

Posts : 4252
Join date : 2012-03-23
Location : Fine Leg

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by alfie Sun 13 Feb 2022, 9:15 am

I think KC has summed this up pretty well . I emphatically disagreed with the decision to leave Broad out in Brisbane (still think it was a dreadful error) but that is history now. The reasons given for trying a "younger" group in West Indies makes a lot more sense - though it will still be open to criticism if the lack of control lets them down badly : I guess any "brave" call stands or falls on its result.

The contentious point being Woakes. Rotten overseas record - can he change it ? Dukes ball so maybe...we will see. I think he almost has to play , by the way :surely no one else is really up to batting eight and with the dodgy batting order they are going to need some insurance...So he had better perform with the ball.

The big area of concern for me is the spinners...

alfie

Posts : 16265
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by msp83 Mon 14 Feb 2022, 9:44 am

What have been the biggest problems for England in recent times with their test sides? Opening batters, number 3, numbers 5-6 when Stokes isn't there, wicketkeeper with solid batting contributions, spin bowling, balance issues some times with the seam bowling department.
That last item is the least of their worries. By centering their solutions around that, and that too with the rather unworking parts of it like Woakes, they aren't just pushing the real issues under the carpet, they are absolutely burying those. Compounding things, they are disturbing things that have been working. Woakes, Root at 3, they are places England went to, with not the best of results. Don't even want to say anything more about the never -ending search for the 21st century Ramps and Hick!

msp83

Posts : 15402
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India

guildfordbat and alfie like this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by guildfordbat Mon 14 Feb 2022, 11:15 am

msp83 wrote:What have been the biggest problems for England in recent times with their test sides? Opening batters, number 3, numbers 5-6 when Stokes isn't there, wicketkeeper with solid batting contributions, spin bowling, balance issues some times with the seam bowling department.
That last item is the least of their worries. By centering their solutions around that, and that too with the rather unworking parts of it like Woakes, they aren't just pushing the real issues under the carpet, they are absolutely burying those. Compounding things, they are disturbing things that have been working. Woakes, Root at 3, they are places England went to, with not the best of results. Don't even want to say anything more about the never -ending search for the 21st century Ramps and Hick!

Hi msp - yep, I very much agree with your tone. Not so much shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic but more like getting rid of two of the lifeboats! Admittedly aged lifeboats but certainly still serviceable.

Another England problem in recent times has been Root's weak and poor captaincy. It has been suggested in the media (as mentioned by Carlos in some of his posts) that Broad and Anderson have been jettisoned because their voices were too loud and undermining in the dressing room and elsewhere. If so, and whilst that probably doesn't reflect well on either of them, it reflects worse in my opinion on Root for allowing it to happen and build.

guildfordbat

Posts : 15294
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 14 Feb 2022, 11:49 am

In other news, some England players picked up in the IPL Auction

Liam Livingstone, Jonny Bairstow and Benny Howell to the Punjab Kings. Livingstone the highest overseas amount in this auction!

Jofra Archer, Tymal Mills to the Mumbai Indians. Archer and Bumrah on the same team in 2023 should be feisty

Mark Wood to the Lucknow Super Giants - big deal

Chris Jordan to the Chennai Super Kings
Jason Roy to the Gujarat Tigers
Sam Billings and Alex Hales to the Kolkata Knight Riders
David Willey to the Royal Challengers Bangalore

All for fairly minor deals in the grand scheme.

No deals for Adil Rashid, Eoin Morgan, Dawid Malan, Reece Topley, George Garton, Laurie Evans and Tom Kohler Cadmore.

Some #thoughts;

Huge opportunity for Livingstone to establish himself as a premier t20 player, and gain more experience as a bowler. He will likely get a decent opportunity to bowl, and bat middle order in that finisher esque role.

Mark Wood gets a big deal for a new franchise, great news for him! From an England point of view, maybe not ideal to add more to his workload...albeit he is less needed in English conditions than overseas, if he does pickup a knock.

Morgan getting dropped by KKR as captain is a sneaky big blow for him as a player going forward. Not been in the greatest of form, and now no IPL? Will need to knuckle down and have a good white ball summer
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly
Tractor Boy
Tractor Boy

Posts : 49576
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 26
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

guildfordbat likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by guildfordbat Mon 14 Feb 2022, 12:11 pm

Thanks for that IPL update, Olly.

Adil Rashid's t20 crown seems to have slipped. What's going on there? Is it just a case of more and better leg spinners from across the world being up for the IPL?


guildfordbat

Posts : 15294
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by king_carlos Mon 14 Feb 2022, 12:58 pm

Hi Guildford

Rashid has always struggled for IPL gigs, a lot of overseas spinners to do be fair. Prevailing view is that there are so many talented spinners available in India that they'd rather use their overseas spots on other areas. Dilly's shoulder likely doesn't help either these days.

I'm delighted to see Howell get a chance. Hopefully he plays and goes well.

king_carlos

Posts : 9440
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

guildfordbat likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by guildfordbat Mon 14 Feb 2022, 1:36 pm

king_carlos wrote:Hi Guildford

Rashid has always struggled for IPL gigs, a lot of overseas spinners to do be fair. Prevailing view is that there are so many talented spinners available in India that they'd rather use their overseas spots on other areas. Dilly's shoulder likely doesn't help either these days.

I'm delighted to see Howell get a chance. Hopefully he plays and goes well.

Thanks, Carlos. I had just expected him to be higher up the t20 pecking order. Guess he'll still get enough other gigs so won't starve!

Thought you would be pleased about Howell. Several years ago Surrey were reported to be very interested in him but then it all went quiet and seemed to fizzle out.

guildfordbat

Posts : 15294
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by king_carlos Mon 14 Feb 2022, 1:52 pm

I remember hearing those Surrey murmurs. Howell had quite a tough time coming through by several accounts and has a lot of loyalty to Gloucestershire for backing him when they did. He's got ADHD, as a young guy in the county system that saw him branded as a difficult character when from most stories I've heard he didn't sound like a troublemaker but simply wasn't a yes man, which cricket tends to favour.

He's just a really interesting cricketer. Bowling what is effectively fast spin as players such as Howell and Pat Brown do can sometimes be dismissed as we haven't seen much of them. Those type of bowlers actually have a long history in cricket going back to the great Sydney Barnes though who combined seam up with a lot of cutters. Barnes considered himself a spinner fascinatingly.

I'm interested in whether we will see more and more of pace bowlers using cutters and slower balls as a wicket taking options even in red ball cricket as bowlers work on the skill more and more due to its value in white ball. Mustafizur Rahman basically bowled spin in the high 80 mphs for a time before his shoulder injuries. Jaspirit Bumrah got Robinson out with that fantastic off cutter from around the wicket at Lords. If bowlers can get the ball deviating off the pitch a decent amount with cutters at that pace it could be unplayable.

For a long time slower balls were largely the same. Split finger, cutters, back of the hand. They were just means of getting the ball to come out slower with your arm still coming over at a similar pace. Bowlers have started looking at them as a means of getting revolutions on the ball (or in the knuckle balls case, revolutions off the ball!) more recently though. With the back of the hand those revolutions produce dip. With cutters some bowlers are now genuinely looking to get enough revolutions on the ball for sideways movement at decent pace.

king_carlos

Posts : 9440
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

guildfordbat likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by JDizzle Mon 14 Feb 2022, 2:53 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:In other news, some England players picked up in the IPL Auction

Liam Livingstone, Jonny Bairstow and Benny Howell to the Punjab Kings. Livingstone the highest overseas amount in this auction!

Interestingly, one of the analysts for the Punjab Kings was a British bloke called Dan Weston. If you follow him on Twitter (@SAAdvantage), you’ll know his philosophy is six hitting wins T20s. And you can see that in their picks - Bairstow, Livingstone and Odeon Smith.

He worked with the Phoenix during the Hundred, and Howell did exceptionally well for them. So he clearly had a lot of influence!

JDizzle

Posts : 6373
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 14 Feb 2022, 8:21 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Thanks for that IPL update, Olly.

Adil Rashid's t20 crown seems to have slipped. What's going on there? Is it just a case of more and better leg spinners from across the world being up for the IPL?


KC has replied before me but he is correct - plenty of Indian home grown spinners to go round, similarly with opening batsmen (hence why Roy and Hales have struggled in the past to get gigs, and went very cheap this time round and likely won’t play huge amounts).
Also IPL franchises don’t always make what I’d perceive as the smartest choices - see picking up random third rate Aussies who can bowl mediocre seam (hi Daniel Sams)

I think for Rashid to get an IPL contract he’d need to offer more with the bat or in the field to justify a franchise going for him. Unfortunately I think the ship has sailed now
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly
Tractor Boy
Tractor Boy

Posts : 49576
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 26
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

guildfordbat likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 22 Feb 2022, 10:16 pm

West Indies have announced their squad for the 1st test vs England

West Indies first Test squad: Kraigg Brathwaite (c), Jermaine Blackwood (vc), Nkrumah Bonner, Shamarh Brooks, John Campbell, Joshua da Silva (wkt), Jason Holder, Alzarri Joseph, Kyle Mayers, Veerasammy Permaul, Anderson Phillip, Kemar Roach, Jayden Seales.

Main headlines;
- Shannon Gabriel is out with a hamstring injury - not been ruled out of the whole series, but seems unlikely he will be at full pelt at any point.
- Shai Hope, Roston Chase, Rahkeem Cornwall and Jomel Warrican all dropped
- John Campbell recalled and likely to open the batting
- Uncapped seamer Anderson Philip included

Think you're likely looking at an XI of;

Brathwaite (c)
Campbell
Bonner
Brooks
Mayers
Blackwood
Da Silva (wk)
Holder
Roach
Permaul
Seales

I think they are much more likely to play the extra bat, with Mayers filling in 5th bowler overs than play an extra bowler.
Depending on the pitch, they might leave the spinner Permaul out for Joseph.
The batting order itself is pretty tough to work out...Blackwood has been all over the order recently, and they sometimes bat Holder above Da Silva too.
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly
Tractor Boy
Tractor Boy

Posts : 49576
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 26
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

guildfordbat likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Duty281 Tue 22 Feb 2022, 10:22 pm

Shai Hope has been dropped probably because he's averaging about 15 in his last nine tests. No Roston 'Shane Murali' Chase is to England's relief. The horrific John Campbell has been recalled because the Windies must be desperate, almost as desperate as England, and there's no Hetmyer because he's still falling short of the prestigious fitness levels demanded of the West Indies.

Should be a low-scoring series.

Duty281

Posts : 27024
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Gooseberry Wed 23 Feb 2022, 9:21 am

That Braithwaite will be the opener with the highest batting average going into this series is absolutely nuts.

Agree of the players dropped its Chase England will be glad to see the back of. Such a lack of quality throughout that squad, and many of them aging too. West Indies really need some of these new players to step up in this series even if England are in a similar pickle.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 23 Feb 2022, 10:19 am

Agree with Duty in that it should be a low scoring series - West Indies batting might be shaky, but they do have a very good seam attack with Roach/Holder providing great control and experience, and Seales is a fantastic prospect. Joseph can be handy on his day too, albeit hasn't quite progressed as they would have hoped!

Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly
Tractor Boy
Tractor Boy

Posts : 49576
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 26
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by VTR Wed 23 Feb 2022, 2:27 pm

Calling John Campbell horrific is probably accurate, but let's not forget England's recent history of giving Windies players their career bests. Double ton and man of the series award incoming!

VTR

Posts : 4252
Join date : 2012-03-23
Location : Fine Leg

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by king_carlos Wed 23 Feb 2022, 3:27 pm

Braithwaite is a player where stats need putting in a bit more perspective I think. His career has almost completely overlapped with a period when bowling has been dominating and he plays his home Tests in the Windies where seam bowling has been absolutely lethal over the last few years. Wickets to seam are going at an average of about 21 in the Windies recently. As an opener that's a tough combination.

Does that mean he'd have averaged 45 in a different era? Nope, not at all. I rate Braithwaite a better player than his low 30s average suggests though, he's a good example of average being a blunt metric when comparing across eras.

king_carlos

Posts : 9440
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

James100 likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by msp83 Wed 23 Feb 2022, 6:35 pm

Even by recent West Indies standards, that possible batting lineup looks absolutely pedestrian. John Campbell, thought we had seen his international career through some time back! Wouldn't even make this England team! Even without Anderson and Broad, England should see it through, if England may struggle to cross 250, West Indies will struggle to get pass 150.
Jason Holder and Kraig Brathwaite are the only decent batters in that lineup. None of the specialist bats other than the skipper are worth it.
Wouldn't have dropped Chase, his test numbers with the bat has surely taken a beating, but if they play him, could have played Joseph in stead of Permaul who isn't a way superior spinner to Chase in any case. Why on earth are they not giving Darren Bravo another opportunity? Even when he struggles, he's better than the no-hopers in that lineup.

msp83

Posts : 15402
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Gooseberry Thu 24 Feb 2022, 9:06 am

king_carlos wrote:Braithwaite is a player where stats need putting in a bit more perspective I think. His career has almost completely overlapped with a period when bowling has been dominating and he plays his home Tests in the Windies where seam bowling has been absolutely lethal over the last few years. Wickets to seam are going at an average of about 21 in the Windies recently. As an opener that's a tough combination.

Does that mean he'd have averaged 45 in a different era? Nope, not at all. I rate Braithwaite a better player than his low 30s average suggests though, he's a good example of average being a blunt metric when comparing across eras.

Theres no other opener from the same period with near close as many caps and such a low batting average. Sure its an era when openers full stop have suffered and very few actually make it 50 caps, but hes never been more than OK in the role (which is good by West Indies standards across the period).

The real thing is over the past 3 years hes averaged 26.6, in spite of playing a fair number of games against soft opposition. Still good by West Indies standards, but not a player who should be overly concerning for England. Cant even blame home wickets, Dean Elgar has to play in South Africa and averages 39 without being considered a great (although theres a fair argument hes massively underrated and still judged against the players around when he started)

Hes certainly not the biggest problem in either teams batting line up, but that's really the point I'm making. A distinctly average player is the best opener in the two squads and one of the more successful batsmen between them. In spite of having a rough few years hes still a first name on the team sheet. West Indies have had to try all manner of options to partner him with no dice, shows their pipeline of talent is suffering even more than Englands ...which is hardly surprising given the structural issues of the first class game there, general decline in interest of cricket, and preference for white ball.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by king_carlos Fri 25 Feb 2022, 3:26 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Braithwaite is a player where stats need putting in a bit more perspective I think. His career has almost completely overlapped with a period when bowling has been dominating and he plays his home Tests in the Windies where seam bowling has been absolutely lethal over the last few years. Wickets to seam are going at an average of about 21 in the Windies recently. As an opener that's a tough combination.

Does that mean he'd have averaged 45 in a different era? Nope, not at all. I rate Braithwaite a better player than his low 30s average suggests though, he's a good example of average being a blunt metric when comparing across eras.

Theres no other opener from the same period with near close as many caps and such a low batting average. Sure its an era when openers full stop have suffered and very few actually make it 50 caps, but hes never been more than OK in the role (which is good by West Indies standards across the period).  

The real thing is over the past 3 years hes averaged 26.6, in spite of playing a fair number of games against soft opposition. Still good by West Indies standards, but not a player who should be overly concerning for England. Cant even blame home wickets, Dean Elgar has to play in South Africa and averages 39 without being considered a great (although theres a fair argument hes massively underrated and still judged against the players around when he started)

Hes certainly not the biggest problem in either teams batting line up, but that's really the point I'm making. A distinctly average player is the best opener in the two squads and one of the more successful batsmen between them. In spite of having a rough few years hes still a first name on the team sheet. West Indies have had to try all manner of options to partner him with no dice, shows their pipeline of talent is suffering even more than Englands ...which is hardly surprising given the structural issues of the first class game there, general decline in interest of cricket, and preference for white ball.
As you allude to it's a pretty short list with a lot of good players in though!

Players with more caps opening in the same period are Warner and Cook (modern Test greats for their nations). Then Karunaratne, Latham and Elgar. Karunaratne and Latham are players I rate but also play their home Tests in the two nations that have been producing better batting wickets.

Elgar is a really interesting player as he's pretty much the only player who batted a lot before and after the shift from Tests favouring batters to favouring bowlers who has stayed consistent across both periods.

I just think he's a better player than sometimes given credit for due to the largely arbitrary benchmarks we have in our heads for averages such as 40 for a good player and 50 for a great player. So much more goes into those numbers than just a players ability though is the point I was making.

Would Braithwaite be a great in any era? Nope. But I think he's been a better player for the Windies than often given credit for.

king_carlos

Posts : 9440
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 01 Mar 2022, 10:09 am

4 day game with a Cricket West Indies XI is lined up for the coming days - England have named a 12 man squad, but widely reported those outside of it might get to take part in it at some point too, but the 12 probably indicates their (rather boring) thinking for the 1st test...

Lees
Crawley
Root
Lawrence
Stokes
Bairstow
Foakes (wk)
Woakes
Overton
Robinson
Wood
Leach

So obviously the selections of note;
- Lawrence and Bairstow to make up the rest of the top 7, with Pope missing out. Means Lawrence at #4 can now complete batting in every middle order slot within 14 months, which even for England is massively impressive kn0bbing around with someone's career.
Kind of think if Pope wasn't going to play, leaving him at home to work on his game and some time away from the team might've been for the best, but he likely gets a game for someone at some point. I'd have him in over Bairstow, but alas

- Seems highly likely we go into the 1st test, with the exact same bowling attack as started the 1st test at the Gabba (Woakes, Wood, Robinson, Leach and Stokes).
I can't even begin to fathom what they're doing with the bowling attack if they're not going to play Mahmood/Parkinson, so I can't offer any insight here beyond lets hope we do somehow do some wins, and get onto hiring a new coach/director of cricket as soon as possible
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly
Tractor Boy
Tractor Boy

Posts : 49576
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 26
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

guildfordbat likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by guildfordbat Tue 01 Mar 2022, 1:16 pm

Hi Olly - I just wonder how fit and ready Stokes will be to bowl. If not that much, Leach could be on the bench again for the opening Test with Overton added to your expected seam attack whilst Root and Lawrence send down some overs of the slow stuff.

It'll be interesting to see how much Stokes turns his arm over in this warm up ....

guildfordbat

Posts : 15294
Join date : 2011-04-07

Good Golly I'm Olly likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Duty281 Tue 01 Mar 2022, 1:48 pm

Cheer yourself up, Olly, West Indies are 2/1 to win this series. My pessimism has calmed down a bit, but I think the West Indies are solid favourites and will get a 2-1 series win. England's selection certainly looking uninspiring.

I see Jason Roy has also pulled out of the IPL and will miss the start of the County Championship as he requires a break from the game. Don't blame him. Hopefully he'll be back for the T20 World Cup later on this year.

Duty281

Posts : 27024
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Good Golly I'm Olly likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 01 Mar 2022, 1:54 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF5Zv2tse24

For anybody with some spare time this PM - looks like the warm up will be streamed via the WI Youtube channel here
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly
Tractor Boy
Tractor Boy

Posts : 49576
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 26
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

guildfordbat and Duty281 like this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by king_carlos Tue 01 Mar 2022, 3:00 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Hi Olly - I just wonder how fit and ready Stokes will be to bowl. If not that much, Leach could be on the bench again for the opening Test with Overton added to your expected seam attack whilst Root and Lawrence send down some overs of the slow stuff.

It'll be interesting to see how much Stokes turns his arm over in this warm up ....
When Stokes has been fit in the last year it's felt like his injuries had affected his bowling a lot. He didn't seem to have that same aggression and pace over the course of spells. His economy sky rocketed again which has always been an issue for Stokes but one he's improved upon.

England should be using his bowling a lot more sparingly to try maximise Stokes the batter IMO.

Seeing Stokes playing below his best, grimacing after most shots or deliveries felt depressingly reminiscent of latter years Beefy with the huge beer belly, bowling high 70 mph outswing with less and less effectiveness.

king_carlos

Posts : 9440
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

guildfordbat likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Gooseberry Tue 01 Mar 2022, 3:12 pm

king_carlos wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Hi Olly - I just wonder how fit and ready Stokes will be to bowl. If not that much, Leach could be on the bench again for the opening Test with Overton added to your expected seam attack whilst Root and Lawrence send down some overs of the slow stuff.

It'll be interesting to see how much Stokes turns his arm over in this warm up ....
When Stokes has been fit in the last year it's felt like his injuries had affected his bowling a lot. He didn't seem to have that same aggression and pace over the course of spells. His economy sky rocketed again which has always been an issue for Stokes but one he's improved upon.

England should be using his bowling a lot more sparingly to try maximise Stokes the batter IMO.

Seeing Stokes playing below his best, grimacing after most shots or deliveries felt depressingly reminiscent of latter years Beefy with the huge beer belly, bowling high 70 mph outswing with less and less effectiveness.

Hard to do when you have two senior seamers the wrong side of 35 Whistle

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by king_carlos Tue 01 Mar 2022, 3:33 pm

I know that's the usual tongue in cheek Goose response but I think there's a lot of truth in Stokes struggling as a bowler making it more difficult to fit Anderson and Broad into the side away from home.

I often said in the past I struggle to see how Surran fits into the side without Stokes fully fit but think he can be very useful at home with a fit Stokes. Their strengths back then were almost exactly opposite. If it was swinging Surran could get very good batters out, if it was flatter Stokes could come into his own. Between them you had the bases covered and Surran has the batting talent to offer very useful runs from 8.

When Stokes was a bit quicker, could bowl long spells on flat pitches he similarly complemented Anderson and Broad well as a point of difference. Even down to Broad and Anderson often having high strike rates but very good economies away from home, whereas Stokes has a really good strike rate for an all rounder but leaks runs. It was then possible to pick two right-arm medium-fast seamers as Stokes offered a counterpoint. After his first spell or two last year Stokes has looked more like another right-arm medium-fast seamer though. There's no balance in that. Especially if all three of them have had recent injury issues, can lack incisiveness as the match goes on.

If Stokes adapts to those changes to his body I think he can still be effective without quite the same pace. He can really swing a ball, if he improves his accuracy and adapts his lengths he could still be very effective albeit in a different manner. Using a half fit Stokes as an abysmal Wagner impersonator in Oz was truly depressing though.

Of course, none of that will explain why we might be about to pick different right arm medium-fast seamers away from home in a direly unbalanced attack though...

king_carlos

Posts : 9440
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Gooseberry Tue 01 Mar 2022, 6:57 pm

Yeah it was a jokey reference to the drama but the underlying point is theres a reason why England keep overbowling people, be that Archer or Stokes. An attack of Wood, Stone, Broad, Anderson would need an ambulance , 2 spinners and 3 Stokes' to bowl on a flat deck.

The lack of a quality spinner has been a part of this too. Mo was just hopelessly unreliable, Bess just mediocre..neither cheap nor threatening, and Leach disappointing at test level.

Its not just been away tests, England overbowled a half fit Stokes at home against the West Indies.

Ideally he would be focused on white ball currently, but the needs of the test team are so acute a player who averages 35 is required to prop the batting up.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Duty281 Tue 01 Mar 2022, 8:41 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF5Zv2tse24

For anybody with some spare time this PM - looks like the warm up will be streamed via the WI Youtube channel here

Lees with 66, Crawley with 62, Root 48. All dismissed apparently, no retired outs in that lot. Currently 222/3 against a very weak attack that is comprised of five bowlers with a combined 40 FC matches, and the experienced international Reifer. Good to get some time in the middle, though.

Duty281

Posts : 27024
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Gooseberry Tue 01 Mar 2022, 9:17 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF5Zv2tse24

For anybody with some spare time this PM - looks like the warm up will be streamed via the WI Youtube channel here

Lees with 66, Crawley with 62, Root 48. All dismissed apparently, no retired outs in that lot. Currently 222/3 against a very weak attack that is comprised of five bowlers with a combined 40 FC matches, and the experienced international Reifer. Good to get some time in the middle, though.

Mustve been doubly confusing for Root to come in later at 3 than he has been doing at 4. Its something at least, not entirely sure how valuable given teh state of the opposition but its cricket and a first gentle step in the brave new era. Might be the best we see for some time!

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by alfie Wed 02 Mar 2022, 1:57 am

king_carlos wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Hi Olly - I just wonder how fit and ready Stokes will be to bowl. If not that much, Leach could be on the bench again for the opening Test with Overton added to your expected seam attack whilst Root and Lawrence send down some overs of the slow stuff.

It'll be interesting to see how much Stokes turns his arm over in this warm up ....
When Stokes has been fit in the last year it's felt like his injuries had affected his bowling a lot. He didn't seem to have that same aggression and pace over the course of spells. His economy sky rocketed again which has always been an issue for Stokes but one he's improved upon.

England should be using his bowling a lot more sparingly to try maximise Stokes the batter IMO.

Seeing Stokes playing below his best, grimacing after most shots or deliveries felt depressingly reminiscent of latter years Beefy with the huge beer belly, bowling high 70 mph outswing with less and less effectiveness.

Suppose it will depend a bit on the pitch laid out for the Test - though as England regularly seem to misjudge pitches anyway that might just be guesswork ! But yes ; I could see them going with four seamers and having Root and Lawrence bowl any required spin. Not as if Leach has been threatening to tear down any trees lately on other than typical Asian Taunton pitches...

Perhaps we shouldn't panic too much yet about Stokes' fitness to bowl : sure he was - reasonably enough - underdone in Australia , and it showed. But he's generally a very fit fellow so comparisons with late Botham are hardly applicable. If he still needs easing back on this trip , fine : but I would hope he will be good to go as a proper fifth bowling option in the English summer. Obviously it is always best not to overburden the allrounder (especially one who delivers at pace) but to a large extent that depends on what the rest of the attack is up to. And probably the main problem there is the absence of a fully acceptable spin option - I wish I could be more hopeful that will solve itself in the short term !  In the meantime it is do what you can with what you've got...

alfie

Posts : 16265
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by alfie Wed 02 Mar 2022, 2:14 am

Seems to be a lot of grumbling on here about the batting which strikes me as a bit odd ?  I mean , what did anyone expect ? Given the squad the batting order just about picks itself so complaining about lack of inspiration seems a bit pointless to me.

First day of the warm up 250/4 with both openers getting decent scores is surely pretty much what you'd want from a single warm up match , at least for a start - yet I have an impression that Duty thinks it unimpressive Headscratch   Who cares what the opposition was like ? This is what they have got so the only thing that counts is surely getting time in the middle and overs in the bowlers legs prior to the first real game ; which is when we find out whether it is time to start tearing hair out again or starting to nurse some cautious optimism.

West Indies favourites for the series ? Maybe : they have home advantage ; England were poor to say the least in Australia and are here without their two best pace bowlers But you wouldn't say the likely West Indian XI is exactly Weekes Worrell and Walcott etc - don't see any Sobers , Richards or Lara about either.

Been a long time since England actually won a series in the Caribbean : not suggesting they are any sure thing to do so this time but I think they have at least an even chance provided the playing group as a whole can perform up to their own best ability - something most of them failed to do in Australia , for whatever reason. I am keeping an open mind for now.

My main concern at the moment is finding a decent stream for the series since it doesn't appear to be getting shown on Aussie TV...

alfie

Posts : 16265
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Gooseberry Wed 02 Mar 2022, 7:36 am

alfie wrote:

West Indies favourites for the series ?  Maybe : they have home advantage ; England were poor to say the least in Australia and are here without their two best pace bowlers  But you wouldn't say the likely West Indian XI is exactly Weekes Worrell and Walcott etc - don't see any Sobers , Richards or Lara about either.

Been a long time since England actually won a series in the Caribbean : not suggesting they are any sure thing to do so this time but I think they have at least an even chance provided the playing group as a whole can perform up to their own best ability - something most of them failed to do in Australia , for whatever reason. I am keeping an open mind for now.

Id struggle to have WI as favourites with such a poor lineup on their part, but as you note better England squads have come unstuck out here in recent times.

What I would say is that theres often been an attitude to this tour that its a bit of a holiday (at least since the WI stopped being good, but even before that there was plenty of beach cricket, drinking and "relaxation" going on) and not given the same level of focus as the big 3 or home tests. This squad is full of players with a point to prove and a career to make, and in many ways theres as much pressure on as there ever is.

Huge opportunities for guys like Lees coming in with no baggage, and a few players hopefully itching to play rather than dreading it. There was so much talk ahead of the Ashes about players not wanting to go and the length of the tour etc, and a felling the squad knew it wasnt good enough or well prepared enough. Can they get a more positive attitude from this refresh? I guess that's the biggest question. It really is about getting the best out of players, we too often have seen capable England players massively under-perform in recent years and clearly the psychology has not been right. Sure its not the most talented bunch of players ever, but they aren't as bad as they've been playing.

Part of the case for not taking Broad and to a lesser extent Anderson is their effect on the dressing room. Broads ranting to the press actually underlines why Root is sick of him, and why Strauss backs it. The guys ego gets in the way of the team performance, even down to him no longer thinking batting is part of his job ( remember when he used to be the new Botham?) and refusing to bowl for the team. The dominance of those personalities can be a problem for getting the best from others and lifting the team as a whole, its just a big issue when they are by far the best performers (if you ignore that Wood and Robinson were actually a more successful pair in the Ashes series). Its impossible from the outside to know the true dynamics of a team and how its impacting people, but the stories about Broads truculence have been around for a long time and the way KP talked about feeling bullied by senior players in the dressing room doesn't seem to have changed. Getting a selector sacked I suspect was the last straw from Strauss (even if Ed Smith was rubbish).

You can only pick players who exist so in the short term to medium if England are going to get better they need to focus on maximising the potential from what they have, whilst they sort the talent pipeline out., Part of that is changing the dressing room culture. Strauss has been through this twice before in his career, with success, having clear outs of some senior players to refresh a squad a draw a line under a period of decline. Its certainly much starker and braver to do it with players who are actually delivering individually though, and he will get judged harshly if it goes badly wrong. But he has been quite clear, hes laying down a marker to Broad and Anderson that they need to be on board and committed to the team if they want to get a spot and is looking for them to step up not down. Have to say Im more surprised by Anderson than Broad, who's theres all manner of stories circulating about, rarely if ever hear anything to indicate Andersons difficult to manage.

As Alfie says the runs in the warm up are something at least. Its hard to get too excited but expectations are so low now regardless of who England take.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Gooseberry Wed 02 Mar 2022, 7:57 am

Also just to note Stokes does need to work on his batting, out for 11. Only player not to make a decent score.

The attack does feature two test bowlers (or at least two have been capped) and is captained by Dorwich, so whilst most of it does just seem to be a case of anyone who's related to the local board president there are at least a couple of competent bowlers in there.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 02 Mar 2022, 1:49 pm

Seen reports Stokes was doing some light bowling during lunch yesterday, but widely anticipated he won't be fit to bowl full 5th bowler overs during the 1st test at least.

Important to be noted in relation to your earlier team makeup point Guildford - widely increases the likelihood they go in with no proper spinner again...
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly
Tractor Boy
Tractor Boy

Posts : 49576
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 26
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by guildfordbat Wed 02 Mar 2022, 2:18 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Seen reports Stokes was doing some light bowling during lunch yesterday, but widely anticipated he won't be fit to bowl full 5th bowler overs during the 1st test at least.

Important to be noted in relation to your earlier team makeup point Guildford - widely increases the likelihood they go in with no proper spinner again...

Thanks for the update, Olly.

I certainly had my doubts given how he was struggling to bowl in the latter part of the Ashes series which wasn't very long ago at all.

Do you know, should yesterday's link work for day 2? Cheers again. thumbsup

guildfordbat

Posts : 15294
Join date : 2011-04-07

Good Golly I'm Olly likes this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Duty281 Wed 02 Mar 2022, 2:27 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5_Vcy-WWLc

Link for day two. Lawrence has got past fifty so his place is presumably secure for the first test...if he'd made a golden duck the selectors may have had to think again!

Duty281

Posts : 27024
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

guildfordbat and Good Golly I'm Olly like this post

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Gooseberry Wed 02 Mar 2022, 4:05 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Seen reports Stokes was doing some light bowling during lunch yesterday, but widely anticipated he won't be fit to bowl full 5th bowler overs during the 1st test at least.

Important to be noted in relation to your earlier team makeup point Guildford - widely increases the likelihood they go in with no proper spinner again...

Thanks for the update, Olly.

I certainly had my doubts given how he was struggling to bowl in the latter part of the Ashes series which wasn't very long ago at all.

Do you know, should yesterday's link work for day 2? Cheers again. thumbsup

To be frank he ideally wouldnt be on this tour, but at least he was the first to stick his own hand up and say I want to be part of it and get on the bus (including forgoing IPL). If England had found themselves coercing him into it (as to some extent they did players for the ashes) when he was half fit it wouldve been the absolute worst case. They do need everything they can get in terms of quality and professional attitude to help bring up the young players and have a decent chance of wins. Were the wider situation different though he'd have a chance to rest and further rehab what seems to be a recurrent issue.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 4 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 4 of 16 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10 ... 16  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum