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Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

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sirfredperry
Jeff Navarro
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Post by VTR Mon 24 Jan 2022, 8:09 am

First topic message reminder :

Don't know anything about that number 9 and 10, are they decent hitters that just happen to be low in the order, or were England again awarding outlier performances to the opposition?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 08 Mar 2022, 2:44 pm

Turns out moving the one guy who scores runs to a position he's never batted well in, wasn't a good idea.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 08 Mar 2022, 2:44 pm

You can't leave on this pitch with the amount of swing and low bounce. Poor from Root.

27/3. Will be tough to reach 200.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 08 Mar 2022, 2:45 pm

So Broad and Anderson weren't the problem?

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Tue 08 Mar 2022, 3:05 pm

Duty281 wrote:Will be tough to reach 200.

Pretty sure with 20 wickets to play with we'll post 200, Duty.

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Post by VTR Tue 08 Mar 2022, 3:22 pm

Bring back Silverwood!

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Post by JDizzle Tue 08 Mar 2022, 3:23 pm

Craig Overton is going to be unplayable on this.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 08 Mar 2022, 3:25 pm

Clever tactics from Bairstow as he comes out - trying to get England over the line for a draw by refusing to face a ball.

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Post by Gooseberry Tue 08 Mar 2022, 3:32 pm

Broad said it ...doesn't matter who you have bowling if the batsmen can't score runs.

Pathetic.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Tue 08 Mar 2022, 3:34 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Broad said it ...doesn't matter who you have bowling if the batsmen can't score runs.

Pathetic.

It's good that we've set out to disprove him by picking notably worse bowlers.

Take the training wheels off the bike and scare the kids to cycle properly.

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Post by Gooseberry Tue 08 Mar 2022, 3:46 pm

Fantastic training for the T20 world cup for Bairstow and Stokes here

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Post by Duty281 Tue 08 Mar 2022, 5:05 pm

It's a good batting wicket, albeit a little slow, now the new ball has softened. Expect we'll see the spinner soon. Stokes' timing way off.

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Post by king_carlos Tue 08 Mar 2022, 5:14 pm

Holder 5-5-0-1

Just such a useful cricketer.

The predictable top order collapse to tune into then. Bairstow and Stokes leading somewhat a recovery though.

With Holder at 6, Da Silva at 7, then a long tail it's a Windies batting lineup they should be confident of attacking.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 08 Mar 2022, 5:54 pm

That was a top-quality over from Seales, great showcase of his talent topped off with that final ball to bowl Stokes.

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Post by msp83 Tue 08 Mar 2022, 6:43 pm

So the usual garbage from England batters. But I feel Stokes and Bairstow have done enough to give them a fighting chance. With da Silva batting at 7, making 150 won't be easy for this West Indies lineup. If they were really planning to pick Permaul, might as well have played Chase. Would have been better for the balance of the side, and wouldn't have compromised the bowling much. England can't in any case, play him...

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Post by msp83 Tue 08 Mar 2022, 6:45 pm

Foakes already offering more than the clueless looking Buttler.

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Post by Gooseberry Tue 08 Mar 2022, 7:05 pm

Good to see stokes managing to dog out a worthwhile innings even if he is still out of form. Hopefully a stepping stone to him getting his swagger back.

Wasn't a big fan of stokes and Bairstow being used for this tour in some ways ...bug thank god they are here. Hopefully foakes can continue the recovery and take the sting out of WI. Still a fair big of potential to score down the order ...but reaching for 200 is never good even if the opposition is just as bad.

Big worry is that it turns out to be a good toss to lose and England don't get the same new ball help

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Post by VTR Tue 08 Mar 2022, 8:15 pm

One thing England do appear to have got right lately, and it wasn't with controversy, was the recall of Bairstow. I know people want to move on to a new era, but some experience has to be in there. If you have Root, Stokes and Bairstow then two of the other four do well, that top 7 could start to look a lot more solid again

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Post by Duty281 Tue 08 Mar 2022, 8:20 pm

Looks like a good toss to win with the odd ball already keeping a little low. Otherwise it's a pretty serene batting wicket, and the West Indies have lacked control with too many boundary balls.

214/6. If England can make 300, they'll be in a good place.

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Post by king_carlos Tue 08 Mar 2022, 8:24 pm

Foakes was looking good but falls for 42. A shame.

Had those two made it to the second new ball around the 240-250 mark I'd have had England narrowly ahead given both sides batting is weak. I think it looks a decent batting track as well which says a lot about the batters.

Another good innings from Bairstow. I've said several times that he's a flawed batter but in the lower middle order at 6 or 7 he could be good for this fragile lineup. His record there is actually pretty good, he has that fight to get dogged runs every now and then but can be destructive when fluent. In a better batting lineup a player who failed to straight full balls as often as YJB obviously wouldn't be considered. This is not a good batting lineup though!

England need to make their longer tail count now. If YJB can ton up, then Woakes and Overton get 50 runs between them England will have a total to bowl at.

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Post by guildfordbat Tue 08 Mar 2022, 8:43 pm

king_carlos wrote:Foakes was looking good but falls for 42. A shame.

Had those two made it to the second new ball around the 240-250 mark I'd have had England narrowly ahead given both sides batting is weak. I think it looks a decent batting track as well which says a lot about the batters.

Another good innings from Bairstow. I've said several times that he's a flawed batter but in the lower middle order at 6 or 7 he could be good for this fragile lineup. His record there is actually pretty good, he has that fight to get dogged runs every now and then but can be destructive when fluent. In a better batting lineup a player who failed to straight full balls as often as YJB obviously wouldn't be considered. This is not a good batting lineup though!

England need to make their longer tail count now. If YJB can ton up, then Woakes and Overton get 50 runs between them England will have a total to bowl at.

A bridesmaid innings. Wink

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Tue 08 Mar 2022, 8:57 pm

Urgh

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Post by Duty281 Tue 08 Mar 2022, 9:02 pm

Very good ton for Bairstow, the difference between a dismal total and a solid one.

West Indies...78 overs in six hours, and spinners have bowled about 15 of them! They haven't carried themselves well in the field since the afternoon, but have the new ball coming up to finish things off.

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Post by Hibbz Tue 08 Mar 2022, 9:04 pm

I know it’s become the norm to knock the batsmen on here and with good reason but that’s a pretty fantastic innings from Bairstow. Coming in at 48-4 and making a century when no one else has made 50 is proper decent.

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Post by Gooseberry Tue 08 Mar 2022, 9:22 pm

Indeed Hibbz, its really back to him at his best ..hidden down the order but able to turn a game either by battling out a rugged score or swashbuckling runs. Its way too long since we have seen a vaguely consistent Bairstow (he used to average around 40) but this could be a huge turning point in the game. The way he and Stokes just dug in for 20 overs or so looked painful but really did a job England needed from their top 4.

Of course hard to know what a solid total is till both sides have batted, but 300 would put England feeling a lot more comfortable than the sub 200 they were headed for.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 08 Mar 2022, 9:38 pm

Really good day for England in the end, 268/6. Full credit to Bairstow, and Stokes/Foakes/Woakes for providing a support act.

With the second new ball already blunted a little, if Bairstow can get back in tomorrow then England might be on for 375+...of course, it could go typical England and be 280ao!

West Indies lacked discipline, Holder apart, and conceded a whopping 41 boundaries. The enormous swing generated with the new ball should be great for Woakes, and a wistful 'what if' for Anderson watching at home.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Tue 08 Mar 2022, 9:56 pm

Oh it's a fantastic innings, and a crucial one, I just find him endlessly frustrating and don't have the faith for it be something good long term.

But remembering not everything is about long term and "the vision" means it should absolutely be celebrated. I just wont Very Happy

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Post by king_carlos Tue 08 Mar 2022, 9:59 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Foakes was looking good but falls for 42. A shame.

Had those two made it to the second new ball around the 240-250 mark I'd have had England narrowly ahead given both sides batting is weak. I think it looks a decent batting track as well which says a lot about the batters.

Another good innings from Bairstow. I've said several times that he's a flawed batter but in the lower middle order at 6 or 7 he could be good for this fragile lineup. His record there is actually pretty good, he has that fight to get dogged runs every now and then but can be destructive when fluent. In a better batting lineup a player who failed to straight full balls as often as YJB obviously wouldn't be considered. This is not a good batting lineup though!

England need to make their longer tail count now. If YJB can ton up, then Woakes and Overton get 50 runs between them England will have a total to bowl at.

A bridesmaid innings. Wink

Indeed, still my fear there too Guildford. I'd absolutely love Foakes to nail Test cricket as his keeping is such a joy to watch. Thus far though his batting has looked solid for a number 7 without being a strength there and his keeping in India did see more mistakes than we are accustomed to from Foakes in county cricket.

As Bairstow showed today he is on a different level to Foakes as a batting talent even with the flaws in his game. It was a magnificent YJB knock under pressure. He hasn't kept for England in a long time but his keeping by the time Buttler got the gloves had progressed to a really solid, Matt Prior-esque standard. Not as good as Foakes even with the mistakes in India but Bairstow has shown he can keep well at Test level.

If other middle order batters don't put their hand up 6.Bairstow 7.Foakes looks good to me. If Foakes isn't quite nailing it and a Pope/Lawrence does well then there might be pressure on Foakes with Bairstow as a good option to keep.

Despite my worries I really hope Foakes gets a run and proves me wrong.

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Post by JDizzle Tue 08 Mar 2022, 11:43 pm

Well done YJB - two centuries in three innings, both away from home, is nothing to sniffed at. Before we even get to the precarious position he came in both times! I still have a lot more faith in Jonny than Pope/Lawrence/Crawley/insert other mid 20s English batter.

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Post by guildfordbat Wed 09 Mar 2022, 12:06 am

Duty281 wrote:Really good day for England in the end, 268/6. Full credit to Bairstow, and Stokes/Foakes/Woakes for providing a support act.

With the second new ball already blunted a little, if Bairstow can get back in tomorrow then England might be on for 375+...of course, it could go typical England and be 280ao!

West Indies lacked discipline, Holder apart, and conceded a whopping 41 boundaries. The enormous swing generated with the new ball should be great for Woakes, and a wistful 'what if' for Anderson watching at home.

Yep, Duty, pretty much go along with that although thoughts of 375+ are beyond my hopes.

Key words in your post are as now put in bold. A terrible opening 90 minutes and clearly serious concerns remain about the top order. However, the day was turned round and ended well due to the fine efforts of Bairstow and his handy supports acts of Stokes, Foakes and Woakes.

Although 375 is too far north for me, I'll be disappointed if we don't top 300 now. My gut feel is that'll be enough for a first innings lead against what looks like an ordinary Windies batting line up, particularly as they opted for the extra bowler.




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Post by Duty281 Wed 09 Mar 2022, 1:29 am

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-10592135/Michael-Vaughan-pundit-BT-Sport-Englands-Test-against-West-Indies-month.html

Just when you thought it was safe to turn on your television again...Vaughan's coming back.

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Post by Gooseberry Wed 09 Mar 2022, 7:34 am

Bairstows recall didnt look too smart last year ... 9 tests averaged 24. In other circumstances he may well have lost his place, again, prior to this sudden resurgence. Despite playing the majority of the tests his previous century had been in 2018 (funnily enough same tour Foakes got his)

Foakes suddenly cant bat according to the comments now hes in the team? Hes plenty good enough at 7 and Buttler lost his place by being worse, as did Bairstow. Sure if England had 6 batsmen demanding top 5 spots, and/or didnt have Stokes able to bowl there could be a question about how they square a side and Foakes be seen as a luxury. But right now they have one batsman who is performing at all, and thats still only two knocks. Right now theres really not a question they both deserve to be in the team.

286/6 batting first is not a really good day, its a really good recovery but only a minimum game position. Still dont know how good an assumed mid 300s score will be, we have seen England struggle to take wickets here time and again in spite of how bad the WI batting line ups have become.

But more than that the bigger picture is the top 4 still failed utterly and Stokes at 5 still struggling for form. The structural issues with batting are still there. Relying on a 32 year old to drag them back into the game is not where they want the team to be. Early days in the reset of course, but a long way from what they would've wanted to see.

I'm sure Bairstow will be chuffed to bits and feeling hes finally redeemed himself after some lean years, but the overall mood in the camp must be one of relief rather than happiness and some nerves for Woakes and Overton knowing their performance with the new ball will be under even more scrutiny given what WI did with it.

Could be a really enthralling test shaping up here.

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 09 Mar 2022, 8:03 am

It remains to be seen if this an actual upturn in form for Bairstow or just another false dawn but at the moment he's securing his spot again.

I didn't watch any of the days play but seemed to follow a similar pattern for the Windies bowlers, start off brilliant and then slowly lose the plot when lack of fitness becomes an issue.

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Post by alfie Wed 09 Mar 2022, 8:15 am

Was delighted to find I was wrong about Aussie TV as the game turned up from the start despite not being advertised last month. Watched a lot of a very interesting day despite the awkward time zone...

And now the internet is fixed so can comment both lightly and more seriously.

1/We should probably rejoice that Olly and Dolphin are not England selectors because Bairstow would have been carrying the drinks Smile

2/ Stokes Foakes and Woakes  - at last !  All got runs too : just need Stokes to add an "A" to his handle  - and Woakes to change his first name to Ben - and it really will be perfect...

3/ Still no joy for the top order. Too early to panic though : I am not sure how good Lees (with a modest FC record) will be  ; but not going to write him off for falling early to the excellent Roach. Or Crawley either (though I would probably prefer him at three if all else was working) - that was some catch by the West Indies keeper !  Even Root isn't perfect. But Holder's first five (maiden !) overs were masterfully metronomic : the pre-lunch bowling by West Indies was really rather good.

4/ A very good recovery by England on a pitch that certainly got a bit easier with an older ball but looks as if it might play up as the match progresses.(Might even suit Leach)  Stokes and Bairstow effort was very similar to their Sydney stand , both in coming from a very precarious position and in their determination to hang in early while restraining their own natural aggression until they were truly set. Top order might take notes.

5/ Foakes I thought played very well. Had he gone quickly after Stokes , disaster was still on the cards ; but after starting with an edge through slips he immediately followed up with two beautiful drives on each side of the wicket which rather set Roach back on his heels. Looked fluent early : I didn't see all his innings but by the time he came out the advantage had seriously shifted England's way . He didn't have a great time with the bat last time he toured here (though I do think he was rather harshly discarded) so has a chance to prove that form wrong this time  - and this was a good start.

6/ Woakes will have to prove himself with the ball yet. But his batting is already proving handy  - albeit with a bit of good fortune. Not sure this pitch would be his choice to bowl on but we will see - at least he should have something to bowl at. I am more optimistic about the value of this score than goose - though I will concede we won't really know until we see the hosts bat .

But anyway the day does belong to YJB ; and as possibly his main supporter on here I am delighted to see him prove the Sydney effort was no fluke. I tend to agree with Dobell that the messing around he has had from selectors was one significant factor in his poor returns over the last couple of years so possibly a settled spot at six will enable him to regain consistency.  I would also suggest that he appears to have made some well advised adjustments to his technique in order to counteract the issues he's developed from too much white ball play : they seem to be working so far.  Hopefully he can keep the runs coming - and the selectors don't decide to ask him to open the batting next week Smile

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 09 Mar 2022, 8:59 am

Missed yesterday after the first session, so clearly I am the bad luck charm... Rolling Eyes

Fair play to Bairstow for his knock, looks another good one and at a very timely time for England. I do wonder how others who would've been long jettisoned with a run of form of a high score of 57 in 37 innings over 4 years, would have got on if given similar opportunities...but if Jonny can take advantage of having a face that fits then knocking off one batting spot for a bit will be handy for them.

From what I saw on the highlights, looks like Stokes/Foakes both got away with one early on in their stays? Stokes somehow directed one between the two slips and 4th slip, and as Alfie says Foakes edged through the slips too...so WI will surely be cursing their fielding luck on that occasion.
A handy knock from Foakes, albeit I am not sure it is anything too special to write home about just yet, hopefully a positive start to his tour.

Sounds like once the new ball wore down, the pitch didn't do much? I would suggest that doesn't bode well for our Woakes/Overton pairing with the ball...so lets hope they can stick around with Bairstow today, get that score well over 300 and maybe nearing 400 and give that pitch some more time to deteriorate for Leach
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Post by JDizzle Wed 09 Mar 2022, 9:10 am

I will say Lees dismissal was fairy worrying to me, albeit only one innings. It was a fairly basic set up of away swingers followed by a straight one - hardly reinventing the wheel in terms of set ups! Roach is a canny operator but was pretty simple.

Re Bairstow and chances. He averages nigh on 50 in domestic cricket. It’s the same reason Pope will keep getting chances. No-one else gets close to their records.

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Post by Pal Joey Wed 09 Mar 2022, 9:18 am

alfie wrote:Was delighted to find I was wrong about Aussie TV as the game turned up from the start despite not being advertised last month. Watched a lot of a very interesting day despite the awkward time zone...


Yeah, it starts at 1:00am here. Maybe record the long versions (first 2 sessions) then wake up early to watch the final session at 5:30-6:00am?
Whilst your tea is brewing you can speed-watch the fall of wickets, DRS reviews, batting milestones, etc. Smile
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Post by alfie Wed 09 Mar 2022, 9:22 am

Yes there were a few edges : Stokes managed to steer one almost through Holder's hands at slip - though I think he had been in a while when that happened. I never feel too sorry for the fielding team when the edges go through gaps : I hate gaps in the slips.

Pitch didn't do much - actually more danger from swing even early on , I thought.  Might go a bit up and down as we go on.

Please do try not to collapse the innings before lunch today , Olly ...

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Post by guildfordbat Wed 09 Mar 2022, 9:37 am

JDizzle wrote:I will say Lees dismissal was fairy worrying to me, albeit only one innings. It was a fairly basic set up of away swingers followed by a straight one - hardly reinventing the wheel in terms of set ups! Roach is a canny operator but was pretty simple.

Re Bairstow and chances. He averages nigh on 50 in domestic cricket. It’s the same reason Pope will keep getting chances. No-one else gets close to their records.

Yes, I'm sure I would have still got out to that delivery (even if I had miraculously survived that long) but I did at least expect it to be coming. So should have Lees.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 09 Mar 2022, 9:59 am

alfie wrote:Yes there were a few edges : Stokes managed to steer one almost through Holder's hands at slip - though I think he had been in a while when that happened. I never feel too sorry for the fielding team when the edges go through gaps : I hate gaps in the slips.

Pitch didn't do much - actually more danger from swing even early on , I thought.  Might go a bit up and down as we go on.

Please do try not to collapse the innings before lunch today , Olly ...

You'll be glad to hear I won't be able to watch until the final session today then Alfie Smile

Sounds like we're going to need Woakes/Overton to take advantage of any swing with the new ball then to make some inroads - while the WIndies batting lineup is shorter than anticipated, if someone like Brathwaite can get in and blunt the new ball, they do have some stroke makers in Blackwood/Holder who can make hay against a tired attack with an old ball...get them in relatively early however and we will be cooking with gas!
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Post by Pal Joey Wed 09 Mar 2022, 10:04 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
alfie wrote:Yes there were a few edges : Stokes managed to steer one almost through Holder's hands at slip - though I think he had been in a while when that happened. I never feel too sorry for the fielding team when the edges go through gaps : I hate gaps in the slips.

Pitch didn't do much - actually more danger from swing even early on , I thought.  Might go a bit up and down as we go on.

Please do try not to collapse the innings before lunch today , Olly ...

You'll be glad to hear I won't be able to watch until the final session today then Alfie Smile

Sounds like we're going to need Woakes/Overton to take advantage of any swing with the new ball then to make some inroads - while the WIndies batting lineup is shorter than anticipated, if someone like Brathwaite can get in and blunt the new ball, they do have some stroke makers in Blackwood/Holder who can make hay against a tired attack with an old ball...get them in relatively early however and we will be cooking with gas!

Jason Holder is about 6'5" isn't he?

There's no shortage of tall timber in that team, man...
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 09 Mar 2022, 12:31 pm

I see Will MacPherson in his daily tour update reported that Stone bowled at lunch and looked good - but they're being extra cautious and targeting late May for his full return with Warwickshire

Less good news for Robinson - he only bowled off basically no run up, and was seen struggling to walk round the outfield during the day with the strength and conditioning coach. MacPherson says it's highly unlikely he will be fit for the 2nd test, and questions about whether he will take part in the tour at all remain
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Post by Duty281 Wed 09 Mar 2022, 12:33 pm

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/mcc-moves-to-de-stigmatise-non-striker-run-outs-in-latest-law-updates-1304409

New laws of cricket announced. Two most significant:

1) The new batsman will always be on strike after a catch is taken, even if the batsmen have 'crossed'.
2) Saliva is permanently banned, after initially being merely suspended during Covid.

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Post by JDizzle Wed 09 Mar 2022, 12:54 pm

Duty281 wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/mcc-moves-to-de-stigmatise-non-striker-run-outs-in-latest-law-updates-1304409

New laws of cricket announced. Two most significant:

1) The new batsman will always be on strike after a catch is taken, even if the batsmen have 'crossed'.
2) Saliva is permanently banned, after initially being merely suspended during Covid.

“Since the (covid enforced) rule about no saliva being used on the ball, swing movement has seen close to zero change”

Courtesy of Ben Jones @ CricViz. So makes sense.

I see Mankads have been moved from the Unfair Play section of the rule book too. Be interesting if more teams looks to utilise them - certainly in T20s/100.


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Post by guildfordbat Wed 09 Mar 2022, 1:14 pm

Duty281 wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/mcc-moves-to-de-stigmatise-non-striker-run-outs-in-latest-law-updates-1304409

New laws of cricket announced. Two most significant:

1) The new batsman will always be on strike after a catch is taken, even if the batsmen have 'crossed'.

2) Saliva is permanently banned, after initially being merely suspended during Covid.

I'm just annoyed about the first change. I used to enjoy getting annoyed about batsmen not crossing.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Wed 09 Mar 2022, 1:22 pm

JDizzle wrote:
Duty281 wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/mcc-moves-to-de-stigmatise-non-striker-run-outs-in-latest-law-updates-1304409

New laws of cricket announced. Two most significant:

1) The new batsman will always be on strike after a catch is taken, even if the batsmen have 'crossed'.
2) Saliva is permanently banned, after initially being merely suspended during Covid.

“Since the (covid enforced) rule about no saliva being used on the ball, swing movement has seen close to zero change”

Courtesy of Ben Jones @ CricViz. So makes sense.


Still goes on a fair bit at village level. We had 3 or 4 instances last season when someone was asked to stop using saliva. Our bowlers as well as the opposition. It is a hard habit to break. Mostly an unconscious thing to walk back to the mark using a bit of saliva on the ball.


Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Gooseberry Wed 09 Mar 2022, 1:24 pm

Share prices for the mentos company dropped overnight

Nothing controversial in the law changes really is there, certainly nothing thats going to help Englands top 4 score runs

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Post by JDizzle Wed 09 Mar 2022, 1:47 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
JDizzle wrote:
Duty281 wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/mcc-moves-to-de-stigmatise-non-striker-run-outs-in-latest-law-updates-1304409

New laws of cricket announced. Two most significant:

1) The new batsman will always be on strike after a catch is taken, even if the batsmen have 'crossed'.
2) Saliva is permanently banned, after initially being merely suspended during Covid.

“Since the (covid enforced) rule about no saliva being used on the ball, swing movement has seen close to zero change”

Courtesy of Ben Jones @ CricViz. So makes sense.



Still goes on a fair bit at village level. We had 3 or 4 instances last season when someone was asked to stop using saliva. Our bowlers as well as the opposition. It is a hard habit to break. Mostly an unconscious thing to walk back to the mark using a bit of saliva on the ball.


100%. It was part of my routine walking back to my mark when bowling. Using saliva didn’t mean to swing more, just that was my routine and I had to do it to bowl! Took a while to get out of it that is for sure.

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Post by guildfordbat Wed 09 Mar 2022, 1:59 pm

Quite a bit of concern being voiced and posted about Woakes and Overton in England's attack. That's understandable and fair enough.

However, my own jury is also still out on third seamer Wood who currently seems to be getting something of a free pass. Too often, he's looked good without producing that much in the end column whilst his injuries and fitness shortcomings are well documented.

Admittedly, he got 9 match wickets in the last Test against Australia and so there's no question of him being left out here (especially with no Anderson and Broad). However, cricinfo confirms my memory that he had a very poor first day then in Hobart - an analysis of 11.3-0-79-1 as rain cut things short. We'll need better than that in the Windies' first dig.

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Post by king_carlos Wed 09 Mar 2022, 2:04 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Foakes suddenly cant bat according to the comments now hes in the team? Hes plenty good enough at 7 and Buttler lost his place by being worse, as did Bairstow. Sure if England had 6 batsmen demanding top 5 spots, and/or didnt have Stokes able to bowl there could be a question about how they square a side and Foakes be seen as a luxury. But right now they have one batsman who is performing at all, and thats still only two knocks. Right now theres really not a question they both deserve to be in the team.

Where has anyone even remotely said that?

My response to Guidlford's "bridesmaid" post was merely a continuation of a discussion after the India tour where Guildford said Foakes performance, "looked like a beautiful bridesmaid but not the bride", which I agreed with then.

Bairstow's record up the order is very poor, he should never have been moved there, but at 6 and 7 he averages 41 and 38 respectively. A pretty good record all things considered. Whilst Foakes is a good batter I don't think it's in anyway controversial to say Bairstow is a different level of batting talent to Foakes.

As such I was making the point that Foakes will either need his keeping to be spotless (which despite his abundant talent there it wasn't in India) or will need to convert useful 40s to more than that to keep the gloves long term. Which I also said I hope he does!

The post also made the caveat that for Foakes to be under pressure from Bairstow taking the gloves and batting at 7 then another lower middle order batter such as Pope and Lawrence would need to put their hand up to demand selection at 6. Which at the moment they haven't been.

Absolutely nowhere in anyone's posts is there even remotely a suggestion that Foakes can't bat as far as I can see.

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Post by king_carlos Wed 09 Mar 2022, 2:16 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Quite a bit of concern being voiced and posted about Woakes and Overton in England's attack. That's understandable and fair enough.

However, my own jury is also still out on third seamer Wood who currently seems to be getting something of a free pass. Too often, he's looked good without producing that much in the end column whilst his injuries and fitness shortcomings are well documented.

Admittedly, he got 9 match wickets in the last Test against Australia and so there's no question of him being left out here (especially with no Anderson and Broad). However,   cricinfo confirms my memory that he had a very poor first day then in Hobart - an analysis of 11.3-0-79-1 as rain cut things short. We'll need better than that in the Windies' first dig.

I have concerns about Wood in that regard too Guildford.

Our abundance of opening bowlers and lack of first change bowlers mean he can offer something different though. Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Robinson, Overton and Surran are all predominantly new ball bowlers. Even Archer and Stone are also opening bowlers though they have pace to do something when it's flat.

It's an often overlooked skill but England historically have struggled to produce change bowlers. I believe Flintoff, Botham and Stokes are the three highest wicket taking seamers for England bowling "first change or later". All three are all-rounders interestingly. In 4th place on that list is... Steven Finn!

If Archer and Stone were fit, or Stokes could bowl at his best, then Wood would be under more pressure with his uneven performances. Those absentees leave a hole he can somewhat fill by offering a point of difference though.

I have hope that Mahmood can be a good change bowler. I think he has the raw skills to do what someone such as Cummins (though he is nowhere near that level of course) does by bowling the wobble seam, accurately, at good pace to both tie up the batters and challenge both edges after it stops swinging.

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