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Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

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Post by VTR Mon 24 Jan - 19:09

First topic message reminder :

Don't know anything about that number 9 and 10, are they decent hitters that just happen to be low in the order, or were England again awarding outlier performances to the opposition?

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 2:02

VTR wrote:Has Zak Crawley just effectively got out to Darren Stevens?

He will be kicking himself. Thought it was a nice juicy one to belt through the covers...dare one say a very Zac Crawley way to get out after weathering some testing stuff ?

With five seam bowlers West Indies will certainly be hoping to knock England over quickly - else I can see over rate problems arising...

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 2:20

Odd start...England in a spot of bother with Root collecting a duck at the hands of the unplayable medium pace of Kyle Mayers and languishing at 30/2 after 17. Batting no picnic so far.

And West Indies making even England's use of the review system look pretty good...

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 25 Mar - 2:21

alfie wrote: languishing at 30/2 after 17.

We are normally 30/3 so this is a promising start.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 25 Mar - 2:24

Checks BBC Sport

Kyle Mayers 4-4-0-2

That's enough checking for a while
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Post by Duty281 Fri 25 Mar - 2:27

Root seems to have a problem against medium-pacers. Green earlier in the winter, Mayers today...De Grandhomme in the summer?

West Indies have been utterly terrible with the reviews, chucking away two on absolute no chance appeals.

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Post by VTR Fri 25 Mar - 2:32

When I saw Mayers picked, I was not too worried, as he has been awful with the bat other than that huge outlier innings. Little did I know he was actually going to destroy us with the ball

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Post by Duty281 Fri 25 Mar - 2:54

That was a very bad innings from Lawrence, in testing circumstances. And I'm not sure how Lees has survived this long, to be honest.

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Post by VTR Fri 25 Mar - 3:06

40 odd for 3, like the old days with Ian Bell to come in next!

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 25 Mar - 3:40

Sounds like a pitch that a certain pair of geriatrics might have enjoyed bowling on.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 25 Mar - 4:03

First time on a competitive wicket for England this series...53/5.

If England do lose this one, it'll be only one win in the last 17 tests which must be close to the worst run an England team has ever embarked on.

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 4:41

Oh dear...  Thought I'd have a little sleep and check the scores later.  Popped back in time to see Foakes bowled... and the scorecard making me think of the recent Ashes Series... One player in double figures  - and him the one probably thought least likely to make runs.

Seems a return to a pitch with a bit in it has served to destroy any notion that England's batting woes have been even slightly addressed ! Are we calling this a minefield yet ? It is obviously helping the seamers - but seven down for 67 seems a bit excessive Smile

Think we can be reasonably certain that this won't end in a draw ...

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 4:55

Having all spent a lot of effort mulling over England team selections (currently thinking it might be a good thing Woakes and Overton are playing , just for their batting ) - it seems West Indies have made an inspired choice of their own in dispensing with a possibly redundant spinner and giving themselves an extra batsman.

The fact that he also managed to start making the continuing mess of the England batting a useful bonus !

Overton gone now and the question becomes : can they get over 100 ?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 25 Mar - 5:04

Must say I couldn't get the interest in this kind of cricket in the first two games..

But this is much more fun to watch..

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Post by VTR Fri 25 Mar - 5:10

I'm not writing England off yet, not unheard of to win from this kind of position on a seaming wicket

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Post by VTR Fri 25 Mar - 5:15

Joshua Da Silva making a double ton or something equally horrendous is probably more likely though

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 5:21

VTR wrote:I'm not writing England off yet, not unheard of to win from this kind of position on a seaming wicket

If the pitch continues to give the bowlers as much assistance as it seems to have been doing today , I suppose anything could happen. You'd think if Woakes is ever going to take wickets outside England this one ought to suit him...

Just now need him to scratch a few more runs out first !

Trouble is I seem to recall last time England were in these parts they followed a collapse with a couple of days watching Jason Holder batting...

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 5:33

Suppose this is something of a recovery from 67/7 ...

Ball 49 overs old but still moving off the seam enough to suggest batting won't be easy after tea either...when I presume the home team will be batting. So may be a chance to get back into this yet.

We all wanted a livelier pitch , didn't we ? Be careful what you wish for...

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Post by GSC Fri 25 Mar - 6:09

Nothing like two dead pitches to send the series to a final match then a complete lottery for the final match
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Post by JDizzle Fri 25 Mar - 6:14

It’s pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things but when you are 100-8 and you get two overs of Bonner and Blackwood you don’t pat them back and wait for tea you try and hammer the rubbish!

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 6:34

JDizzle wrote:It’s pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things but when you are 100-8 and you get two overs of Bonner and Blackwood you don’t pat them back and wait for tea you try and hammer the rubbish!

It gets worse...at 129/9

Enough of messing about with Roach and Seales and Joseph...

Back comes Mayers the Demon trundler ghost

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 6:57

Useful tail end runs. Last two wickets have been the largest partnerships of the innings !

Ian Bishop doesn't think the pitch has flattened out. Just the ball gone soft. If he's right England might yet get something from this last session - and at least they have something vaguely resembling a score to defend rather than what looked like being about 95 tops...


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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 25 Mar - 6:59

The last few pairings have put on some runs...which is good.

But also the last few pairings being able to put on runs...probably not a good sign for where England are in this game
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Post by Duty281 Fri 25 Mar - 7:09

It's starting to look a bit like the first test. The ball was initially going around corners on the first day, England fell to 48/4, but recovered due to Bairstow's century and the batting conditions becoming a lot more favourable.

Seems pretty similar here...except no century and not much chance of anything competitive.

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Post by VTR Fri 25 Mar - 7:18

Yes, as welcome as these runs are, it's worrying the likes of Leach and Mahmood can survive on this. If it's now flattened out England are done for

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 7:19

I don't think this pitch is much like the one in Antigua. Early damage there was more down to swing.

Think this useful tail end resistance is being enabled by softer ball and tiring bowlers...and in any case I'd rather 140-150 than under a hundred.

Maybe I'm an optimist but I think there will be enough in the conditions to give England's bowlers an opportunity to get them back in this game.

Whether they will be good enough - smart enough - to do so is another matter.

Is a weird looking scorecard though !

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 25 Mar - 7:29

Saqib sauntering down the wicket and swatting Mayers for six over mid wicket?

I have a new favourite
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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 7:31

All happening now Smile

Mahmood shelled at cover and reacts by smashing Mayers into the crowd ! Nice way to bring up the 150.

Brathwaite having a bowl himself : wouldn't have put money on that at 67/7 ...

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 7:41

Fifty stand clap

West Indies must be getting rather frustrated with this. Knew Leach could be stubborn , but hadn't expected Mahmood to do such a handy turn with the bat.

He will need to be on the money with his day job too though.

165/9 . Heady stuff...

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Post by Duty281 Fri 25 Mar - 7:47

Biggest partnerships have been the 10th, 9th and 8th wicket stands. The innings is upside down.

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Post by JDizzle Fri 25 Mar - 7:49

Good thing they left Broad and Anderson at home or they’d have been 100 all out.

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 7:52

New ball due. Astonished to see these two have made it here - and got over 180 !

End surely coming soon now : will be interesting to see how the new missile behaves...

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 8:12

Mahmood with easily his highest FC score...and Jack Leach seems to think he is batting against Ireland !

Stand of 81 now and Seales took his cap then with a rather resigned look. Surely this can't last much longer ; but you'd think we are looking at a very different match now from what might have been when these two came together.

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 8:21

200 up - and was brought up in style with that Mahmood drive Smile

Would have been long odds on this scoreline two balls after tea ! Wonder if Duty got a bet on ?

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Post by JDizzle Fri 25 Mar - 8:37

Saqib out. Great knock from him and Leach. Given England a chance in this game.

I know Guildford will hate it (would have wanted to come back out so the Windies openers can’t prepare!), but that wicket isn’t the worst thing. The pitch was at it’s spiciest in the morning so time for the bowlers to get into their work first thing.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 25 Mar - 8:38

Ah, gutted Mahmood couldn't get a fifty. But he top-scored in the innings, which says a lot!

204. It keeps England in the game, at one point 100 was looking unlikely, but they're certainly behind and I think the West Indies will have better batting conditions awaiting them tomorrow (and day three if it comes to it).

England have to keep them below 300, and Woakes and Overton must deliver as the senior bowlers.

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Post by alfie Fri 25 Mar - 8:38

204 all out. After where they were , I'll take that.

Pity they didn't get fifty each - thought they'd be batting on tomorrow!

Still the home team's day but let us see how things go when they bat in the morning...

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 25 Mar - 9:24

I wasn't able to watch today and am still trying to get my head around the scorecard. Guess you guys who saw it all feel the same!

Numbers 10 and 11 being the top scorers belongs to an under elevens' school match! I have no memory of it occurring in a Test. Has it ever happened before at the top level? If so, I would reckon only in the very early years of a Test team's formation and development.

So what caused the collapse and the recovery (even if only partial)? The track? The ball? The batting? The bowling?
Any attempts at answers much appreciated.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 25 Mar - 9:59

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283162.html

This was only the twelfth instance of a number eleven top-scoring in a test innings. The only Englishman to previously achieve it was Steve Harmison in 2005.

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Post by Galted Fri 25 Mar - 10:04

guildfordbat wrote:I wasn't able to watch today and am still trying to get my head around the scorecard. Guess you guys who saw it all feel the same!

Numbers 10 and 11 being the top scorers belongs to an under elevens' school match! I have no memory of it occurring in a Test. Has it ever happened before at the top level? If so, I would reckon only in the very early years of a Test team's formation and development.

So what caused the collapse and the recovery (even if only partial)? The track? The ball? The batting? The bowling?
Any attempts at answers much appreciated.

According to Cricinfo it's the second time ever, and first for nearly 140 years.
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Post by sirfredperry Fri 25 Mar - 19:43

Not often you get a day in Test cricket where both sides think they've done well. But yesterday was probably one of those days.

The match and the series looked all over at tea. Windies may well, still, go on to win but at least England have a chance now after the 10th wicket heroics.

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Post by VTR Fri 25 Mar - 20:07

England got thrashed in the summer after putting India in and bowling them out for 191 in one of the Tests, which seemed like decent work from England at the time. That last wicket partnership could well make the difference

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 25 Mar - 20:48

Absolutely mental partnership between Leach and Saqib, but still West Indies day overall for me. England, do at least, have something to play with now...but crucial inroads are made with the new ball up front, we saw the pitch was flat with the old ball and although they were part timers, there didn't appear to be spin yet either.

Think if we can keep WI to a lead of under 100 or so, we will have a chance to overturn that with them batting last. Anything over 350/400+ from them, probably rules out an England victory however...especially as they are likely to score slowly
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Post by dummy_half Fri 25 Mar - 21:37

Really disappointed that Mahmood couldn't quite see out the day and bring up a maiden first class fifty, but he and Leach turned it from a disastrous day into at least an amusing one. How important their runs are will become clear by tea today - if the wicket is still lively at least for the newer ball then we're still in this game, but if Leach and Mahmood found it relatively easy because the wicket has flattened already then we should be looking at a significant deficit on the first innings.

Keep the Windies to a lead of under 100 and it's still a game. Much more and we will be looking for the sort of second innings score we haven't made many times recently.

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Post by alfie Sat 26 Mar - 1:14

Not going to try and predict at all ; but it seems to me that the Leach & Mahmood stand has transformed the game to a significant extent.
If the pitch has flattened out , West Indies will presumably get a lead : but chasing 204 rather than say 100 it will take them longer to get a decent one...and a flat pitch would then give England a fair chance of batting themselves back into the game in their second innings.

I suspect there will actually be a bit in the pitch still anyway - certainly with the newer ball - so if England bowl really well , as the home side did early yesterday , West Indies may well be held to something less than they'd like. And if spin becomes a factor later - well only one team has a serious spin bowler in the XI...

Anything could happen. But at the moment I think it remains very much undecided - thanks to the England 10 and 11.

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Post by VTR Sat 26 Mar - 1:32

Woverton doing a good job wasting the new ball. That 200 is maybe not looking so great, needs wickets and soon!

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Post by alfie Sat 26 Mar - 1:35

Nothing much exciting in these first eight overs. Bit of movement but they've really not made them play enough so far. No funny bounce. I suspect wickets are going to be harder to come by today , as they have been generally for this somewhat pedestrian England attack.

Early yet though. Nothing happened for West Indies until Mayers did his five overs 2/0 trick ...

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Sat 26 Mar - 1:37

Cummins and Starc/Hazlewood
Afridi and Shah
Southee and Boult/Jamieson
Rababa and Jansen
Bumrah and Shami/Sharma
Woakes and Overton Shocked

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by VTR Sat 26 Mar - 1:41

alfie wrote:Nothing much exciting in these first eight overs. Bit of movement but they've really not made them play enough so far. No funny bounce. I suspect wickets are going to be harder to come by today , as they have been generally for this somewhat pedestrian England attack.

Early yet though. Nothing happened for West Indies until Mayers did his five overs 2/0 trick ...

The bowling did look threatening and felt like they did well to survive to that point. Today has been about as threatening as Geoff Boycott's mum bowling from both ends as once

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Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread - Page 13 Empty Re: Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

Post by Duty281 Sat 26 Mar - 1:48

Looks like a long old day in the field awaits for England, which I think we all feared after watching Leach and Mahmood dominate with the bat for a spell yesterday. That 200 is about 200 light, and the West Indies have strengthened their batting by bringing in Mayers for Permaul.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 26 Mar - 1:49

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Cummins and Starc/Hazlewood
Afridi and Shah
Southee and Boult/Jamieson
Rababa and Jansen
Bumrah and Shami/Sharma
Anderson and Broad Woakes and Overton Shocked

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Mind the windows Tino. and alfie like this post

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