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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by beninho Sun 13 Feb 2022, 6:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

It does seem that this cat video is pretty old. But, also oeople seem more upset about it then say, Chelsea having a player who killed someone when he was drink driving.

We are a nation of animal lovers, my mum was all in on Romanian rescue dogs, not so keen on Romanian people.
,

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Post by JAS Mon 03 Oct 2022, 10:58 am

beninho wrote:Trussy is awful. Kwasi was celebrating with the bankers afterwards, but someone else has defended it by also saying property developers were there. Thats fine, everyone loves them!

Boris was bad, but he was wedded to an ideological view. He was probably to easily swayed and a bit eager to please.

Truss is a bit tory Corbyn. They need ger gone or she kills the party.

The anti Tory in me says Truss MUST stay

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 03 Oct 2022, 11:44 am

BlueCoverman wrote:The rant today removed all remaining doubt for me that Putin would have little hesitation in pushing the nuclear button. I fear for what happens next.
He can try, but I'm afraid that him 'pushing' such a button won't do anything unless the military high command act on it. Not sure Gerasimov et al would go through with it. Interesting take on Putin's options here, if you have access.

Not to say he can't have his 'Downfall' moment, but the fact of the matter is that NATO etc aren't remotely interested in actually being on Russian soil.
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Post by McLaren Mon 03 Oct 2022, 11:52 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
BlueCoverman wrote:The rant today removed all remaining doubt for me that Putin would have little hesitation in pushing the nuclear button. I fear for what happens next.
He can try, but I'm afraid that him 'pushing' such a button won't do anything unless the military high command act on it. Not sure Gerasimov et al would go through with it. Interesting take on Putin's options here, if you have access.

Not to say he can't have his 'Downfall' moment, but the fact of the matter is that NATO etc aren't remotely interested in actually being on Russian soil.

I don't subscribe so can't read that article. But I hope Putin is only characterized in that article based on court room passable evidence. :whistle:
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Post by Pal Joey Mon 03 Oct 2022, 12:38 pm

Hopefully there's a 'Stanislav Petrov' on duty on the day that the order comes through from Putin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm_incident

What I don't get is that if such a terrible situation was to occur surely that would render that part of the world unsuitable for any sort of agriculture and industry for some while to come.

Sort of defeats the purpose doesn't it... or is there a way of containing the contamination from smaller tactical nuclear explosions?

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Post by JAS Mon 03 Oct 2022, 1:21 pm

Pal Joey wrote:Hopefully there's a 'Stanislav Petrov' on duty on the day that the order comes through from Putin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm_incident

What I don't get is that if such a terrible situation was to occur surely that would render that part of the world unsuitable for any sort of agriculture and industry for some while to come.

Sort of defeats the purpose doesn't it... or is there a way of containing the contamination from smaller tactical nuclear explosions?

I don’t think there’s much room such logical thought in an evil psychopaths mind.

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 03 Oct 2022, 2:17 pm

McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
BlueCoverman wrote:The rant today removed all remaining doubt for me that Putin would have little hesitation in pushing the nuclear button. I fear for what happens next.
He can try, but I'm afraid that him 'pushing' such a button won't do anything unless the military high command act on it. Not sure Gerasimov et al would go through with it. Interesting take on Putin's options here, if you have access.

Not to say he can't have his 'Downfall' moment, but the fact of the matter is that NATO etc aren't remotely interested in actually being on Russian soil.

I don't subscribe so can't read that article. But I hope Putin is only characterized in that article based on court room passable evidence. Whistle
It's an opinion piece, and now my sides have stopped shaking with laughter, don't say I never do anything for you...

Article:
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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 03 Oct 2022, 2:20 pm

Pal Joey wrote:Hopefully there's a 'Stanislav Petrov' on duty on the day that the order comes through from Putin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm_incident

What I don't get is that if such a terrible situation was to occur surely that would render that part of the world unsuitable for any sort of agriculture and industry for some while to come.

Sort of defeats the purpose doesn't it... or is there a way of containing the contamination from smaller tactical nuclear explosions?
Didn't stop Hitler and suspect if had the technology, he'd have been quite happy to incinerate everything that he could, including Germany as he thought his countrymen and women weren't worthy of his vision come the end. Hopefully Putin isn't of that view, and even if he is, hopefully those around him and at the top of the military aren't.

In answer to the last point, configure detonation as air burst? Not perfect, but a lot better than ground burst.
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Post by McLaren Mon 03 Oct 2022, 5:15 pm

Jokes aside, that was interesting article Navy. Thanks for posting.

I like the writers idea that Russian using battlefield tactical nukes might actually be its quickest route to demise in Ukraine, but I am not sure in reality anyone can predict how things would turn out once the first nuke of any sort is fired.

The safest and hopefully most likely end to Putins madness has to be his loss of respect and power among those in positions of power within Russia. As described in that article it would seem he knows that his generals wouldn't actually push the button even if he ordered it. And even besides that they must be pretty hacked off about having to send their men to a pointless death in a pointless war. This along with oligarchs falling out of windows can't be good for Putins popularity.

I actually wonder if Putin will start to take things out on the Russian people to fuel is egotism if he can't win what he thought was a simple war in Ukraine.
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Post by pedro Tue 04 Oct 2022, 8:09 pm

Liverpool vs Rangers… I’m sure super can’t contain himself.

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Post by super_realist Wed 05 Oct 2022, 6:18 am

pedro wrote:Liverpool vs Rangers… I’m sure super can’t contain himself.

Lucky it wasn't 8-0. Absolutely battered.

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Post by super_realist Wed 05 Oct 2022, 6:19 am

McLaren wrote:Jokes aside, that was interesting article Navy. Thanks for posting.

I like the writers idea that Russian using battlefield tactical nukes might actually be its quickest route to demise in Ukraine, but I am not sure in reality anyone can predict how things would turn out once the first nuke of any sort is fired.

The safest and hopefully most likely end to Putins madness has to be his loss of respect and power among those in positions of power within Russia. As described in that article it would seem he knows that his generals wouldn't actually push the button even if he ordered it. And even besides that they must be pretty hacked off about having to send their men to a pointless death in a pointless war. This along with oligarchs falling out of windows can't be good for Putins popularity.

I actually wonder if Putin will start to take things out on the Russian people to fuel is egotism if he can't win what he thought was a simple war in Ukraine.

We need to stop looking at Putin from a Western viewpoint. He's mad in our view, he's not mad from an Eastern European ex Soviet, communist state, secret police, dictator  viewpoint

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Post by Duty281 Wed 05 Oct 2022, 10:18 am

Three games for Rangers, three losses and zero goals. Didn't somebody on here say that nobody would want to draw Rangers?

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Post by super_realist Wed 05 Oct 2022, 10:22 am

Duty281 wrote:Three games for Rangers, three losses and zero goals. Didn't somebody on here say that nobody would want to draw Rangers?

Celtic and Rangers being pot 4 teams are exactly the type of teams better teams want to draw. Easy games.

They're just not close to CL standard

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Post by McLaren Wed 05 Oct 2022, 10:43 am

I am not prone to defending the old firm but what do you mean by not close to CL standard? They are probably pretty similar to other pot 4 teams.
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Post by super_realist Wed 05 Oct 2022, 10:52 am

McLaren wrote:I am not prone to defending the old firm but what do you mean by not close to CL standard? They are probably pretty similar to other pot 4 teams.

They clearly aren't capable of competing in it, furthermore if they were genuinely Champions League standard they wouldn't have to rely on Russian league expulsion to get in automatically and wouldn't have such a dismal qualifying record against Malmo, Copenhagen, Midtylland etc.

Teams that are CL standard actually appear in it, rather than once every five years. Evidently they are there to make up numbers.
Getting third position is the aspiration and that looks a step too far for Rangers at least and likely Celtic

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Post by McLaren Wed 05 Oct 2022, 11:27 am

I still don't get your point. The old firm are about as good as other teams who you would expect to finish 3rd/4th in the group. Loads of teams that qualify have little hope of getting to the knock outs.

But don't you think that says more about the state of football rather than the teams unable to compete? Without the distortion of vast amounts of money European football would be much more interesting.
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Post by super_realist Wed 05 Oct 2022, 11:31 am

McLaren wrote:I still don't get your point. The old firm are about as good as other teams who you would expect to finish 3rd/4th in the group. Loads of teams that qualify have little hope of getting to the knock outs.

But don't you think that says more about the state of football rather than the teams unable to compete? Without the distortion of vast amounts of money European football would be much more interesting.

The Old Firm are partly responsible for the poor state of Scottish football, lack of competition and therefore appalling European performances at the highest level.

They live in the past and fail to realise they come from a dreadful product which garners no interest or investment from financial sources which could lead to its improvement. It's been going downhill for years, yet Celtic and Rangers moan about the competition despite being complicit in why it's so poor.

Pot 4 teams are by definition bottom feeders and no OF fans should have expectations beyond avoiding humiliation.

It's like Shane Lowry expecting to be competitive in the Olympic 100m

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 05 Oct 2022, 1:34 pm

Part of the problem, surely, is that the Champions' League, is nothing of the sort any more. IMO, should be for winners of top divisions in relevant countries, only. Then again, would be a smaller cash cow, so of course that's no longer the case.
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Post by super_realist Wed 05 Oct 2022, 1:38 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Part of the problem, surely, is that the Champions' League, is nothing of the sort any more. IMO, should be for winners of top divisions in relevant countries, only. Then again, would be a smaller cash cow, so of course that's no longer the case.

I see the term Champions League as no more noteworthy than the Personality part of SPOTY.
It would be crap with winners only. Real Madrid v Bodø?
Man City v Amagusta?

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Post by pedro Wed 05 Oct 2022, 3:08 pm

The CL was expanded to 32 teams a few years ago. Not sure if it’s the right number, but it sounds alright to give champions from smaller leagues a chance to play the bigger teams. Yes, pot 4 is largely cannon fodder but you also encounter the occasional surprise, just look at Brugge

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 05 Oct 2022, 3:26 pm

super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Part of the problem, surely, is that the Champions' League, is nothing of the sort any more. IMO, should be for winners of top divisions in relevant countries, only. Then again, would be a smaller cash cow, so of course that's no longer the case.

I see the term Champions League as no more noteworthy than the Personality part of SPOTY.
It would be crap with winners only. Real Madrid v Bodø?
Man City v Amagusta?
Not sure pertinent, unless one decides that only some leagues are good enough. If so, fair enough. At least a league winners only remit would actually fit the bill. Still, it's a UEFA baby, so why would anyone expect it to be about anything but money?
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Post by super_realist Wed 05 Oct 2022, 3:39 pm

The point was Navy, that a competition with only teams that were Champions of their country would be terrible.
Champions of Poland, Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Finland, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Malta, Cyprus, Greece etc as automatic qualifiers would he dire.

These teams do get the chance to compete, bit demonstrate that generally they aren't good enough to get through qualifying.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 05 Oct 2022, 5:26 pm

super_realist wrote:The point was Navy, that a competition with only teams that were Champions of their country would be terrible.
Champions of Poland, Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Finland, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Malta, Cyprus, Greece etc as automatic qualifiers would he dire.

These teams do get the chance to compete, bit demonstrate that generally they aren't good enough to get through qualifying.
Maybe so. Maybe just change the competition's title to "European Super League"? Wink
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Post by super_realist Wed 05 Oct 2022, 5:39 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:The point was Navy, that a competition with only teams that were Champions of their country would be terrible.
Champions of Poland, Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Finland, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Malta, Cyprus, Greece etc as automatic qualifiers would he dire.

These teams do get the chance to compete, bit demonstrate that generally they aren't good enough to get through qualifying.
Maybe so. Maybe just change the competition's title to "European Super League"? Wink

Well maybe, but what's in a name?
I'd much prefer it was now than when Celtic won it in 67. They love to go on about it but played complete nobodies until the final.

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Post by JAS Thu 06 Oct 2022, 6:49 am

Duty281 wrote:Three games for Rangers, three losses and zero goals. Didn't somebody on here say that nobody would want to draw Rangers?
That would have been me, I’m now relegated to the lower echelons of football punditry but still slightly higher than Supes and his embittered nonsense.

Rangers have been a disappointing shadow of last year for sure. Obviously I don’t accept Supers overtly negative characterisation but on the back of last season yes it’s been a very disappointing step up. In theory the could still get 3rd in the group and therefore Europa League post xmas which for me was always the realistic target.

As for where they are…Several contributing factors I’d say..
Tough draw, Napoli are clearly the outstanding pot 3 team
Money, pure & simple
Domestic competitive standard
The real transition from a Gerrard squad to a van Bronkhorst squad

It looks bad now but it’s not all doom & gloom but this year has highlighted the gulf between Europa & CL

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Post by JAS Thu 06 Oct 2022, 6:58 am

super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Part of the problem, surely, is that the Champions' League, is nothing of the sort any more. IMO, should be for winners of top divisions in relevant countries, only. Then again, would be a smaller cash cow, so of course that's no longer the case.

I see the term Champions League as no more noteworthy than the Personality part of SPOTY.
It would be crap with winners only. Real Madrid v Bodø?
Man City v Amagusta?

Or Man City vs Real Madrid….ffs Supes listen to yourself. Navy is bang on, it should NOT be called the Champions League, it’s a European Super League in all but name. The only difference between it and the obscenity that was proposed not so long ago is that there is at least some semblance of meritocracy, all be it biased toward the commercial interests of the big 5 leagues.

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Post by JAS Thu 06 Oct 2022, 7:04 am

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:I am not prone to defending the old firm but what do you mean by not close to CL standard? They are probably pretty similar to other pot 4 teams.

They clearly aren't capable of competing in it, furthermore if they were genuinely Champions League standard they wouldn't have to rely on Russian league expulsion to get in automatically and wouldn't have such a dismal qualifying record against Malmo, Copenhagen, Midtylland etc.

Teams that are CL standard actually appear in it, rather than once every five years. Evidently they are there to make up numbers.
Getting third position is the aspiration and that looks a step too far for Rangers at least and likely Celtic

Fancy editing this one before I go forth and rip the utter Poopie apart point by point?

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Post by super_realist Thu 06 Oct 2022, 7:42 am

JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Part of the problem, surely, is that the Champions' League, is nothing of the sort any more. IMO, should be for winners of top divisions in relevant countries, only. Then again, would be a smaller cash cow, so of course that's no longer the case.

I see the term Champions League as no more noteworthy than the Personality part of SPOTY.
It would be crap with winners only. Real Madrid v Bodø?
Man City v Amagusta?

Or Man City vs Real Madrid….ffs Supes listen to yourself. Navy is bang on, it should NOT be called the Champions League, it’s a European Super League in all but name. The only difference between it and the obscenity that was proposed not so long ago is that there is at least some semblance of meritocracy,  all be it biased toward the commercial interests of the big 5 leagues.

Your nobody teams that are Champions from Austria or Lithuania get the chance to qualify.
If you want to change the name, fine. Not a problem, but it's a better format than the old 16 team knockout format isn't it?



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Post by super_realist Thu 06 Oct 2022, 7:47 am

JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:I am not prone to defending the old firm but what do you mean by not close to CL standard? They are probably pretty similar to other pot 4 teams.

They clearly aren't capable of competing in it, furthermore if they were genuinely Champions League standard they wouldn't have to rely on Russian league expulsion to get in automatically and wouldn't have such a dismal qualifying record against Malmo, Copenhagen, Midtylland etc.

Teams that are CL standard actually appear in it, rather than once every five years. Evidently they are there to make up numbers.
Getting third position is the aspiration and that looks a step too far for Rangers at least and likely Celtic

Fancy editing this one before I go forth and rip the utter Poopie apart point by point?

Not at all. Celtic and Rangers are proving categorically why they are pot 4. They have been terrible.
Unless they do their part in improving the SPL and thus increasing revenue so they can compete at this level they are only ever going to be able to do ok in Europa and Conference, it's clear as day they aren't up to the CL under the status quo.
Not really sure how you can "rip that apart"
Celtic and Rangers are partially responsible for how bad the quality of the domestic League is, but do nothing to improve it. It's self fulfilling and any reasonable OF fan would admit they aren't good enough for the Champions League and unless things change domestically, they never will.
That's pretty reasonable isn't it?

Yes, it comes down to money, but if your teams can't be arsed to improve the product, then expect this every year until your coefficient denudes to the point where automatic qualification doesn't occur.

Rangers and Celtic aren't good enough. It's just a fact.

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Post by beninho Thu 06 Oct 2022, 8:58 am

Rangers and Celtic seem perfectly feasible pot 4 champions league teams. And last season Rangers showed they could beat bigger champions league teams such as Dortmund.

Depending on the draw and tge 3rd seeded team they may have a chance.


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Post by super_realist Thu 06 Oct 2022, 9:09 am

beninho wrote:Rangers and Celtic seem perfectly feasible pot 4 champions league teams. And last season Rangers showed they could beat bigger champions league teams such as Dortmund.

Depending on the draw and tge 3rd seeded team they may have a chance.


Pot 4 is whipping boys and that's where they are. That's the point. Pot 4 is there to make up numbers.
You see the deluded fans thinking they have a chance of second. It's hysterical.
Do you think FC Copenhagen have such delusions of grandeur or do you think they are just grateful to be there? It's about expectation and Rangers and Celtic should be grateful for the opportunity to play 6 games once every 5 (Celtic) or 10 years (Rangers)
They have zero recent experience at this level and so expectations should be adjusted accordingly.

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Post by beninho Thu 06 Oct 2022, 9:14 am

Aren't Club Brugge top?

Football clubs should never settle for just being there.

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Post by super_realist Thu 06 Oct 2022, 9:33 am

beninho wrote:Aren't Club Brugge top?

Football clubs should never settle for just being there.

When you're as ordinary as Celtic/Rangers it's probably best to  temper your expectations.
They need to set a benchmark and then try to improve next year once they realise where they are deficient.

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Post by McLaren Thu 06 Oct 2022, 10:50 am

Super

I wonder if it is you that has unrealistic expectations about pot 4 teams and not those teams themselves. They are there to try and get a Europa league spot if possible and enjoy their matches against the traditionally big teams as much as possible, hopefully stealing a result.
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Post by super_realist Thu 06 Oct 2022, 10:53 am

McLaren wrote:Super

I wonder if it is you that has unrealistic expectations about pot 4 teams and not those teams themselves. They are there to try and get a Europa league spot if possible and enjoy their matches against the traditionally big teams as much as possible, hopefully stealing a result.

Mac, all I'm saying is the the OF are trying to walk before they can crawl.
If you listen to them they genuinely think they are capable of second place. Given their deplorable performances can you call that realistic?

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Post by beninho Thu 06 Oct 2022, 11:41 am

They have legitimately qualified for the group stages based on past performance? If they are in a group of 4 they should be aiming for 2nd, hoping 3rd but maybe cone 4th depending on the group.

Neither club should say we are here to make up the numbers.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 06 Oct 2022, 11:47 am

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Super

I wonder if it is you that has unrealistic expectations about pot 4 teams and not those teams themselves. They are there to try and get a Europa league spot if possible and enjoy their matches against the traditionally big teams as much as possible, hopefully stealing a result.

Mac, all I'm saying is the the OF are trying to walk before they can crawl.
If you listen to them they genuinely think they are capable of second place. Given their deplorable performances can you call that realistic?

You post on a sports forum yet understand so little about sport. Every team will be hoping and believing they're capable of coming second in the group, that's how sport works.

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Post by pedro Thu 06 Oct 2022, 1:22 pm

It’s also called the Champions Tour in golf. Yeah, it’s not the Super League - correct name would be Hasbeen Tour. But everybody loves the word Champion.

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Post by JAS Thu 06 Oct 2022, 1:58 pm

super_realist wrote:
JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:I am not prone to defending the old firm but what do you mean by not close to CL standard? They are probably pretty similar to other pot 4 teams.

They clearly aren't capable of competing in it, furthermore if they were genuinely Champions League standard they wouldn't have to rely on Russian league expulsion to get in automatically and wouldn't have such a dismal qualifying record against Malmo, Copenhagen, Midtylland etc.

Teams that are CL standard actually appear in it, rather than once every five years. Evidently they are there to make up numbers.
Getting third position is the aspiration and that looks a step too far for Rangers at least and likely Celtic

Fancy editing this one before I go forth and rip the utter Poopie apart point by point?

Not at all. Celtic and Rangers are proving categorically why they are pot 4. They have been terrible.
Unless they do their part in improving the SPL and thus increasing revenue so they can compete at this level they are only ever going to be able to do ok in Europa and Conference, it's clear as day they aren't up to the CL under the status quo.
Not really sure how you can "rip that apart"
Celtic and Rangers are partially responsible for how bad the quality of the domestic League is, but do nothing to improve it. It's self fulfilling and any reasonable OF fan would admit they aren't good enough for the Champions League and unless things change domestically, they never will.
That's pretty reasonable isn't it?

Yes, it comes down to money, but if your teams can't be arsed to improve the product, then expect this every year until your coefficient denudes to the point where automatic qualification doesn't occur.

Rangers and Celtic aren't good enough. It's just a fact.

Ok points
1. Russian expulsion, they were already going to be ahead of Russia in the coefficient. Rangers pretty much over the past 4 seasons dragged the Scottish coefficient from 23rd to 8th FACT
2. Rangers have faced Danish opposition twice since their resurgence, comfortably beating Midtylland in the Europa league qualifying and taking 4/6 points off Brondby in the group stage last season. I can’t and won’t speak about how the other half of the OF have performed.
3. I know this will be painful for you to grasp but the Scottish league is the 8th best league in Europe and in terms of finance is there punching above it’s weight.
4. Rangers were ranked 33rd at the end of last season, at the point of the CL group stage draw they were ranked 29th, had that ranking been used in the CL draw they would have been in POT 3, but for a Ramsay penalty they would have been in pot 1

Saying they can’t compete is utter Love sacks, there is a mile of difference between saying they’ve performed poorly compared to last season and saying they can’t compete. If they ship the same amount of goals in the next 3 games and 0 points then you’d be moving toward a semblance of a point but we’re not there yet are we.


Last edited by JAS on Thu 06 Oct 2022, 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by McLaren Thu 06 Oct 2022, 2:15 pm

Jas

Super has a very low football IQ. He has demonstrated this over the years.
McLaren
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Post by JAS Thu 06 Oct 2022, 3:24 pm

McLaren wrote:Jas

Super has a very low football IQ. He has demonstrated this over the years.

I know, he’s repeatedly made a tit of himself since the start of the Gerrard era about Rangers capability of being able to compete in Europe. All doom and gloom, no recognition of the progress being made etc etc. This season has probably seen them hit what is probably their plateau level based on their overall financial & domestic constraints. They are not, nor are they likely to be a top 16 outfit. As a top 32 team though that does make them EUropa league competitive. The next step up they have to try and make is be savvy and competitive enough to be able to get into the CL and be able to cope and get a 3rd place which would enable European football post Xmas. With the luck of the draw this season that is unlikely to happen, Napoli as pot 3 outfit are exceptional, I’d stick my neck out and say they would have had a significantly better chance had they had the draw Celtic had.

Also something that does have to change that would help all of the Scottish game is for a 3rd team to step up and gather some coefficient points. Rangers have done their bit by improving the coefficient to the point where a 3rd team get guaranteed European football until Xmas. Would love to see Hearts do really well in the Conference this season and help consolidate the National Club coefficient. If they do….great, if they don’t, it’s not the Old Firms fault. The Hearts Hibs and Aberdeens of this world need to step up, at least now and again. You wouldn’t hear Brentford, Notts Forest Brighton etc blaming Man City, Chelsea, Man U etc for their inability to compete at the highest level.

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