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6 Nations Round 4 - England v Ireland

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 28 Feb 2022, 4:34 am

First topic message reminder :

England v Ireland

Twickers, London
Saturday 12th March 2022
Kick Off - 1645hrs

England team


Ireland team

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Post by MichaelT Mon 14 Mar 2022, 12:15 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:
MichaelT wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:No not concerned at all with Irelands depth in the backs apart from at out half. I assume you are quite concerned with Englands? The backs have been a major weakness.

Stockdale will definitely be back at some stage.

Yep, concerned but having Watson and May available would give a much different outcome.

Not to mention Farrell and of course Tuilagi.

England missing 7 or 8 first choice players not helping at all.

But it would be nice to see some tries all the same

Tuilagi, seems to be one of those players that gets better the longer he isn't actually playing. Shouldn't England be looking for a Plan B now, or at least Jones should accept that Plan A doesn't involve Manu and that he should be the (when fit) Plan B option?

Maybe, but Tuilagi played what 7 games for England between 2013 and 2018? He then came back in 2019, played all year including some pretty memorable wins, and then in Six Nations 2020 he played 3 games (France game lost after he went off) and England won that tournament quite convincingly. He is also younger than people think. He has also never lost v Ireland covering 2011 to 2020.

Jones England also won two six nations, hammered Australia 3-0 and matched the 18 game winning streak without him.

Further also, Ireland play Aki at 12, Scotland play Johnson at 12 and Wales have played Tompkins at 12 I think so all the home nations struggle at developing centres in my opinion.

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Post by Collapse2005 Mon 14 Mar 2022, 12:18 pm

Ireland also play Henshaw at 12

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Post by Big Mon 14 Mar 2022, 12:23 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:No not concerned at all with Irelands depth in the backs apart from at out half. I assume you are quite concerned with Englands? The backs have been a major weakness.

Stockdale will definitely be back at some stage.

Very much so on my part, though in some respects more concerned with the coaching of the attack. I can't tell you whether or not I'm a fan of the current approach as it really doesn't seem to be clear what (if anything) it is. Italy seem to be doing better ball in hand, given the players they have available - though they have their own defence issues to resolve.

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Post by Collapse2005 Mon 14 Mar 2022, 12:25 pm

Who is the attack coach?

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Post by carpet baboon Mon 14 Mar 2022, 12:57 pm

MichaelT wrote:
Big wrote:For myself I don't think the Furlong case was the same in that Slade had dipped a lot to try and get the intercept and Furlong was caught a little off guard and was low, but by current interpretation of rules this is a penalty at least for me and maybe a yellow (would need better video of it to check though).  More concerning was that I didn't notice Slade go off for an HIA after, did I miss that or did it actually not happen?  

Yeah should have been a yellow at least - no tackle attempt, swinging arm and high on the body. Its the inconsistency of it. Henderson not being yellow carded on his second or third penalty for playing the ball on the ground when Liam Williams was yellow carded for that two weeks ago. No yellow card for 6 scrum penalties. England got a yellow card last year v Scotland for 5 penalties in the first half alone.

That all being said though, its all self-inflicted by England and they have deserved to lose when they've lost.


Furlong didn't swing his arm. His arm flys backwards after Slade falls/runs into it

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Post by MichaelT Mon 14 Mar 2022, 1:03 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Who is the attack coach?

Martin Gleeson. Rugby League ex-player, he was at Wasps for a while and got a good reputation I believe.

Something isn't working with Englands attack. Anyone can see that. Another change in coach there wont help. Wisemental got England playing so well, and quite quickly in 2018, but that was with Farrell, Tuilagi, May, Daly all on form, and having Cokanasiga and Watson also available to him.

Ultimately it has to come down to Jones. I am probably not alone in wishing it was after the world cup and England had a new head coach.


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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 14 Mar 2022, 1:08 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
MichaelT wrote:
Big wrote:For myself I don't think the Furlong case was the same in that Slade had dipped a lot to try and get the intercept and Furlong was caught a little off guard and was low, but by current interpretation of rules this is a penalty at least for me and maybe a yellow (would need better video of it to check though).  More concerning was that I didn't notice Slade go off for an HIA after, did I miss that or did it actually not happen?  

Yeah should have been a yellow at least - no tackle attempt, swinging arm and high on the body. Its the inconsistency of it. Henderson not being yellow carded on his second or third penalty for playing the ball on the ground when Liam Williams was yellow carded for that two weeks ago. No yellow card for 6 scrum penalties. England got a yellow card last year v Scotland for 5 penalties in the first half alone.

That all being said though, its all self-inflicted by England and they have deserved to lose when they've lost.


Furlong didn't swing his arm. His arm flys backwards after Slade falls/runs into it

It looks to be a high pen/low yellow kind of incident really.

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Post by Collapse2005 Mon 14 Mar 2022, 1:09 pm

The celebrations for some of Englands penalties were really passionate, fun to watch. Thinking of Jamie George I think it was jumping like a man posessed. They really wanted to win this one.

Historically in the six nations in Ireland v England fixtures wins seem to often come in bunches so expect England to probably win next year.

Ireland now lead the all time six nations table and are the most sucessful away team.

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Post by carpet baboon Mon 14 Mar 2022, 1:44 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
MichaelT wrote:
Big wrote:For myself I don't think the Furlong case was the same in that Slade had dipped a lot to try and get the intercept and Furlong was caught a little off guard and was low, but by current interpretation of rules this is a penalty at least for me and maybe a yellow (would need better video of it to check though).  More concerning was that I didn't notice Slade go off for an HIA after, did I miss that or did it actually not happen?  

Yeah should have been a yellow at least - no tackle attempt, swinging arm and high on the body. Its the inconsistency of it. Henderson not being yellow carded on his second or third penalty for playing the ball on the ground when Liam Williams was yellow carded for that two weeks ago. No yellow card for 6 scrum penalties. England got a yellow card last year v Scotland for 5 penalties in the first half alone.

That all being said though, its all self-inflicted by England and they have deserved to lose when they've lost.


Furlong didn't swing his arm. His arm flys backwards after Slade falls/runs into it

It looks to be a high pen/low yellow kind of incident really.

I have just watched it back. The pass isnt even for furlong but going Infront of him to Henderson. Furlong has turned his head to the left to see where Henderson is running.
The first he knows about Slade having the ball is when Slade falls Into him. His right a is by his side. Not outstretched or swinging and slade is almost on his knees clattering into his arm.

At the very very most it "could" have been a penalty. But it would have been very harsh.


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Post by Collapse2005 Mon 14 Mar 2022, 1:49 pm

Think Raynal was also looking right at it too wasnt he?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 14 Mar 2022, 1:50 pm

Nah, it's not a red but it's definitely a pen.

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Post by carpet baboon Mon 14 Mar 2022, 2:37 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nah, it's not a red but it's definitely a pen.
If that is a definite pen then both teams would have been down to 3 players by half time.
But that's what's great about opinions, we all have one

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 14 Mar 2022, 2:41 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Nah, it's not a red but it's definitely a pen.
If that is a definite pen then both teams would have been down to 3 players by half time.
But that's what's great about opinions, we all have one

Yeah the second someone has the ball and an opposition even accidentally makes contact with the head in a tackle it's a pen. I didn't until this moment consider there were people with the opposite view tbh.

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 14 Mar 2022, 2:43 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Nah, it's not a red but it's definitely a pen.
If that is a definite pen then both teams would have been down to 3 players by half time.
But that's what's great about opinions, we all have one

Furlong apparently not knowing Slade is there (which he did) isn't mitigation.

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Post by carpet baboon Mon 14 Mar 2022, 6:14 pm

I mean you can go back and watch it. Slade falls into furlong who's looking to where he things the ball is going (past him to Henderson)
But if that's a penalty cool.
Henderson cheating on the floor should have been a yellow. But that time he pinged furlong for not rolling away and missed hendy completely

Good luck to England finishing better than 5th this year

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 14 Mar 2022, 6:23 pm

I have watched it; Slade intercepts and Furlong instinctively swings his arm, direct contact to the head.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 14 Mar 2022, 6:26 pm

carpet baboon wrote:I mean you can go back and watch it. Slade falls into furlong who's looking to where he things the ball is going (past him to Henderson)
But if that's a penalty cool.
Henderson cheating on the floor should have been a yellow. But that time he pinged furlong for not rolling away and missed hendy completely

Good luck to England finishing better than 5th this year
As Soul says Slade catches the ball then gets hit in the head. You need to go back and re watch it really as you're wrong.

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Post by carpet baboon Mon 14 Mar 2022, 6:52 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:I have watched it; Slade intercepts and Furlong instinctively swings his arm, direct contact to the head.

But he really doesn't though does he. Slade clattters into furlongs arm as he's looking left. Furlongs arm is thrown back by the force of Slade crashing into his arm.

But hey it's the difference that makes the world go round.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 14 Mar 2022, 6:59 pm


So penalty then.

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 14 Mar 2022, 7:18 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I have watched it; Slade intercepts and Furlong instinctively swings his arm, direct contact to the head.

But he really doesn't though does he. Slade clattters into furlongs arm as he's looking left. Furlongs arm is thrown back by the force of Slade crashing into his arm.

But hey it's the difference that makes the world go round.

His arm goes forward.

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Post by carpet baboon Mon 14 Mar 2022, 7:22 pm

Ok if it helps you sleep at night

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 14 Mar 2022, 7:32 pm

At best your now saying that Furlong has tackled him without use of arms. That's still a pen.
And it he's made contact with the head and not attempted to wrap you can't then have any lowering, so red?

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Post by Collapse2005 Mon 14 Mar 2022, 8:43 pm

England rugby team loves penalties. Think they might even celebrate them more than tries. Very Happy

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Post by nlpnlp Mon 14 Mar 2022, 10:49 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:England rugby team loves penalties. Think they might even celebrate them more than tries. Very Happy

Ireland rugby team loves World Cup quarter-finals. Think they might even celebrate losing them more than tries.

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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 15 Mar 2022, 12:17 am

Rugby Fan wrote:...Cipriani agreed, saying that worked in defence. However, he thought the players looked less clear about what they were trying to do in attack. While Quins players know what positions to take up to give Marcus Smith options, Cipriani didn't have the impression that Smith has the same kind of picture for England. He described attack as being almost another kind of set piece, where players should know what the overall system needs them to do at any given time...
Telegraph picked up on Cipriani's comments, even going so far as to publish some of them:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2022/03/14/danny-cipriani-claims-eddie-jones-england-heavily-outcoached/

"In terms of their attacking shape, the ball in hand, England were heavily outcoached. It wasn't the players, it wasn't the effort... but in terms of the system, the formation and the breaking down of the defence, Ireland didn't look stressed. Whereas England were often stressed, and it was often Ireland's last pass that didn't go to hand," Cipriani explained.

Without naming England head coach Eddie Jones by name, Cipriani later added: "England do need to be England, the set-piece is English rugby and we're great at that. But the talent pool that we have, if you can't put a good system in place for us to execute an attack in a good way, then what are you doing as a coach?"

"Your set-piece, kicking game, defence - those are part of your identity for sure. But what has the attacking identity or vision looked like? You can say how great [England] were at set-piece and yes, [England] made some great decisions - Marcus Smith put a great kick up off lineouts twice and [England] won that moment, they won big moments within the game. But the constant pressure of how many times Ireland put England under pressure with their shape and decision-making at the line and their framework, their attack as a unit looked completely cohesive. You don't need to have every single person with 100 caps to do that. You need good direction and leadership as a coach, who puts people in the right position at the right time and a system you can fall back on 90 per cent of the time.

"When it's quick ball, you get the ball in the No 10's hands and play rugby, you play more what's in front of you and there's good timing and tempo onto the ball. But the game is not quick ball, it's mostly medium to slow. How do you create quick ball? It's by having a great formation and system and being able to pull teams apart. [Ireland] constantly challenged the inside shoulders of England to make them step in. Once you step in, the ball goes out the back and you get to the space. You need to constantly make teams make decisions in defence."

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 15 Mar 2022, 6:10 am

Collapse2005 wrote:England rugby team loves penalties. Think they might even celebrate them more than tries. Very Happy
Furlong doesn't. Looked like he was about to cry.

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Post by MichaelT Tue 15 Mar 2022, 8:44 am

nlpnlp wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:England rugby team loves penalties. Think they might even celebrate them more than tries. Very Happy

Ireland rugby team loves World Cup quarter-finals.  Think they might even celebrate losing them more than tries.

Do they even love quarter-finals? They haven't been competitive in one since 1991.

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Post by mountain man Tue 15 Mar 2022, 9:02 am

Ciprianis' comments have merit but I detected some sour grapes from him, he had a dig at Johno and obviously a dig at Jones. Not defending Jones but would a different coaching set up totally change England especially when down to 14? The players in team are all experienced Int/club players so at some stage they need to take some responsibility as well.

I think Jones time is up, he seems to definitely lost a lot of the fans support and if lack of Eng success is all down to coaching then I wonder what players truly think. In public of course they are all on message but makes me wonder.

Anyway, like it or not I can't see any change until after RWC2023.

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Post by Poorfour Tue 15 Mar 2022, 9:27 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I have watched it; Slade intercepts and Furlong instinctively swings his arm, direct contact to the head.

But he really doesn't though does he. Slade clattters into furlongs arm as he's looking left. Furlongs arm is thrown back by the force of Slade crashing into his arm.

But hey it's the difference that makes the world go round.

His arm goes forward.

For me, the issue is not what (if any) the sanction should have been. The issue is that there was clear head contact right in front of the ref and it wasn’t even reviewed. Add to that being allowed to play on when Sinckler was clearly concussed (whereas the whistle was blown immediately for Ryan) and Ireland being allowed to take a lineout (which ultimately led to a try) when Steward was still being treated for a late hit after his kick (which also wasn’t reviewed), and it basicallly says that player safety provisions are not being applied consistently.

The red card was absolutely the right call in the Ryan incident, as was stopping the game and ensuring that he go appropriate treatment before play continued. But it appears that English players were not afforded the same duty of care.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 15 Mar 2022, 9:28 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:England rugby team loves penalties. Think they might even celebrate them more than tries. Very Happy
Furlong doesn't. Looked like he was about to cry.

The bloke is generally considered to be the best tighthead in world rugby and was done over completely by a prop not deemed good enough for a Lion's Squad place. Ellis would have certainly let him know how many penalties Ireland were conceding at set piece time with England down a forward as well. The England forwards really turned up.

I think a bit of adversity sometimes helps Genge, gets him fired up. Despite his reputation for being hot headed he very rarely loses his cool these days.

I think Cipriani does have a point, the England backs aren't bad players, any of them, but they look toothless as a unit. Some of that is the overly off the cuff way they seem to be playing and some of that is just the lack of balance on selection. One of Slade or Malins needs to be sacrificed for someone a bit more direct to help Smith out as he's a bit short on options.

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Post by Poorfour Tue 15 Mar 2022, 9:29 am

I had my doubts about Genge before the match but if he can perform consistently at that level then he has laid a big claim on the starting shirt.
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Post by Recwatcher16 Tue 15 Mar 2022, 9:40 am

Genge seems to be getting the plaudits but just as likely was Healy on the other side getting squeezed and stepping out and dragging his front row with him. This leads the England LH to look like he is boring in when the Irish tighthead understandably drops his outside shoulder as he goes sideways and backwards.

Like many I was surprised in the success of Genge and Sinkler but suspect Healy was the cause not Furlong. The particular scrum with Marler and Stuart that minced the Irish scrum in the second half was a different thing entirely.

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Post by mountain man Tue 15 Mar 2022, 9:46 am

One of Slade or Malins needs to be sacrificed for someone a bit more direct to help Smith out as he's a bit short on options.

Youngs, Daly need to go. Time up long ago. Malins not a wing, good 15 but he's not replacing Steward certainly in starting 15. Slade been OK but that's it. Trouble is he seems to be another of Jones Golden Boys who are undroppable. Thing is who at 12? Manu obvious choice but realistically his time gone by look of it due to injury. Farrell? If fit then yes I'd have him in there like a shot. I've been very critical of him as he was automatic choice despite poor form last 2 years but now given lack of 12s(seemingly) then seeing as Jones would definitely pick him I'd get him in at 12 but only 12. Otherwise who but more importantly who would Jones pick.
Need genuine pace on wing, to be honest England look so toothless I'd risk a less than stellar defensive wing for a try scoring one at the moment.

Seems to be same arguments every single game, forwards doing really well, backs not cutting it.

*comments about Farrell being in obviously not applicable for France game but going ahead up to RWC.


Last edited by mountain man on Tue 15 Mar 2022, 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by MichaelT Tue 15 Mar 2022, 9:48 am

Poorfour wrote:For me, the issue is not what (if any) the sanction should have been. The issue is that there was clear head contact right in front of the ref and it wasn’t even reviewed. Add to that being allowed to play on when Sinckler was clearly concussed (whereas the whistle was blown immediately for Ryan) and Ireland being allowed to take a lineout (which ultimately led to a try) when Steward was still being treated for a late hit after his kick (which also wasn’t reviewed), and it basicallly says that player safety provisions are not being applied consistently.

The red card was absolutely the right call in the Ryan incident, as was stopping the game and ensuring that he go appropriate treatment before play continued. But it appears that English players were not afforded the same duty of care.

I thought play continued on after the Ryan hit? Isnt there footage of a suspect Sexton incident in the phases that followed? In the Italy Scotland match the ref blew for a stumble from an Italian player, and Luke Pearce said he was concerned immediately and said over to you to the doctors.

I agree though and posted yesterday about the inconsistency in refereeing. Ireland were expected to win the match well and did on the scoreboard, so I dont want it to come across as sour grapes.

The Tomas Williams incident on Friday was awful to watch for him. How that wasn't called immediately is one of the worse things I have seen. It was clear as day he couldn't walk.

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Post by mountain man Tue 15 Mar 2022, 9:51 am

I thought play continued on after the Ryan hit? Isnt there footage of a suspect Sexton incident in the phases that followed?

It did for quite a while but eventually stopped, dont' think anyone realised he was seriously hurt. Sexton incident before it though I believe(?).

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 15 Mar 2022, 10:14 am

mountain man wrote:
One of Slade or Malins needs to be sacrificed for someone a bit more direct to help Smith out as he's a bit short on options.

Youngs, Daly need to go. Time up long ago. Malins not a wing, good 15 but he's not replacing Steward certainly in starting 15. Slade been OK but that's it. Trouble is he seems to be another of Jones Golden Boys who are undroppable. Thing is who at 12? Manu obvious choice but realistically his time gone by look of it due to injury. Farrell? If fit then yes I'd have him in there like a shot. I've been very critical of him as he was automatic choice despite poor form last 2 years but now given lack of 12s(seemingly) then seeing as Jones would definitely pick him I'd get him in at 12 but only 12. Otherwise who but more importantly who would Jones pick.
Need genuine pace on wing, to be honest England look so toothless I'd risk a less than stellar defensive wing for a try scoring one at the moment.

Seems to be same arguments every single game, forwards doing really well, backs not cutting it.

*comments about Farrell being in obviously not applicable for France game but going ahead up to RWC.

Youngs and Daly are bench cover and not effecting the toothless attack for 60 mins either good or bad so removing them or not is a moot point. I would like to see Quirke come back in for the summer as he looks the more go to 9 for me going forwards.

That is the problem at 12 we are a bit short, no alternative option in the squad since Atkinson got knocked out at Welford Road (by his own teammate). I'd have liked to see Cockasiga come back into the squad to just offer something different off the wing. Get him and Nowell running off their wings on the shoulders of the half backs and the defence have suddenly got more to think about. Maybe Daly back to wing with the instruction to do a bit of that.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 15 Mar 2022, 10:21 am

Impressed with Youngs 25 min cameo then Sam?

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Post by mountain man Tue 15 Mar 2022, 10:24 am

Bench cover or not they should no longer be in squad. If they are on bench they are taking the place of a more deserving player like Quirke as you mentioned. Plus injury in 1st minute would mean they on then for 79 mins and we've seen how that goes. Mitchell in squad for France game, doubt get picked.
Joe C yes but only just back playing. Jump back to Int(and he's hardly experienced there anyway) be a lot. But agree, need someone different on wing. Definitely NOT Daly! Likes of Northmore(centre), OHC, have been included in squad for a while try them? I see Furbank back in squad, can only hope he's not picked. Sorry, decent club player not Int standard.

Sadly I see a backline of Youngs, Smith, Slade, Marchant, with Malins Nowell on wings for France. Daly be on bench. Again.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 15 Mar 2022, 10:29 am

Quirkes out with concussion at the moment. But I'd still have had Mitchell ahead of Youngs for (at this point) years.

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Post by mountain man Tue 15 Mar 2022, 10:32 am

Yes hence Mitchell in squad. I mentioned Quirke as option for Youngs as an example to Sam as he mentioned him for summer.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 15 Mar 2022, 10:59 am

Mis read it.

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Post by carpet baboon Tue 15 Mar 2022, 12:45 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:At best your now saying that Furlong has tackled him without use of arms. That's still a pen.
And it he's made contact with the head and not attempted to wrap you can't then have any lowering, so red?

No what I'm saying is that furlong doesn't tackle him at all, but Slade falls into an unaware furlong.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 15 Mar 2022, 12:48 pm

So Furlong offers no tackle, hits him in the head accidentally. In the laws it says that's a pen, then you go through mitigation. Recklessness (heedless of danger or the consequences of one's actions) is not mitigation, so you're more convincing me I was wrong and it's a red.

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Post by MichaelT Tue 15 Mar 2022, 12:52 pm

This is a bit like the magic bullet theory. Did anyone check the grassy knoll?

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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 15 Mar 2022, 2:05 pm

Alex Corbisiero talks about the scrums on The Left Wing podcast. He gets into it from the 6 minute 30 seconds mark.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4IJn7x4vS8a13adU6uYJYQ?si=38e995f7a1f44656

He says Jamie George was a big factor over his opposite number at the engagement. Kelleher and Porter would not have fallen into that trap. Sheehan is a tall hooker, so the brake foot ruling is more of a challenge for his technique. He also thinks Conan is better at 8 than Doris at keeping the snap at the back, so that was an additional weakness at the beginning.

While he recognizes what people are saying about the angles of the props, he says the engagement was much more important for the outcome. Once England had the edge there, then they earned the benefit of the doubt about what happened next.

He reassured the Irish hosts that Ireland can fairly easily solve the issues raised on Saturday.


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Post by mountain man Tue 15 Mar 2022, 2:07 pm

I have to say even as an England fan I thought they got away with wheeling scrum around a couple of times but I'm definitely no scrum expert so I'll bow to those with superior knowledge of it.

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Post by king_carlos Tue 15 Mar 2022, 3:21 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Alex Corbisiero talks about the scrums on The Left Wing podcast. He gets into it from the 6 minute 30 seconds mark.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4IJn7x4vS8a13adU6uYJYQ?si=38e995f7a1f44656

He says Jamie George was a big factor over his opposite number at the engagement. Kelleher and Porter would not have fallen into that trap. Sheehan is a tall hooker, so the brake foot ruling is more of a challenge for his technique. He also thinks Conan is better at 8 than Doris at keeping the snap at the back, so that was an additional weakness at the beginning.

While he recognizes what people are saying about the angles of the props, he says the engagement was much more important for the outcome. Once England had the edge there, then they earned the benefit of the doubt about what happened next.

He reassured the Irish hosts that Ireland can fairly easily solve the issues raised on Saturday.


Interesting. Corbs is a really good pundit that I wish was on mainstream coverage more.

I said during the game after the strange insinuations that one match meant Furlong's stock had plummeted that the scrum is about more than LH vs TH battles.

George is a really good scrummaging hooker, it's an often overlooked part of a hookers game as it's more difficult to see.

I've not taken as many positives from this tournament as some England fans. I feel we are a side treading water and waiting for players who might return. One big positive has been George's form though. I think LCD is the better all round player but when he's fit I think England should strongly consider starting George and using LCD for impact in that Malcolm Marx role after 45-50 minutes.

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Post by mountain man Tue 15 Mar 2022, 3:40 pm

Have any England fans taken many if any positives? I think most if not all very disappointed at selections and performances. A lot of us were applauding the effort and fight(maybe wrong word!) with 14 men but overall it's been a pretty ropey 6N. Could and should have beaten Scotland but didn't and played awful really. Against Wales could easily lost and again toothless performance. Italy was always a win but again 2nd half went flat.

Positives are George as you say, Dombrandt, Steward continued good form at 15 and finally Simmonds having a good game against Ireland in adversity but England overall 4/10. If Eng beat France and say finish 3rd then maybe 6/10. If they lose badly and England due to other results end up 5th again 2/10.

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Post by majesticimperialman Tue 15 Mar 2022, 4:26 pm

If you look at England and Wales this 6ns both teams have been playing underperformance. Both team's have had some of their best players missing and have had what you might call a make shift team to do the best you can.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 17 Mar 2022, 10:00 am

Collapse2005 wrote:No not concerned at all with Irelands depth in the backs apart from at out half.

Why would you be? You can just pop over to NZ and grab another "project player" Wink

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