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England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down

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Post by sirfredperry Fri 15 Apr 2022, 9:24 am

First topic message reminder :

Joe Root has decided to step down from the captaincy. Main problem now is - who should take over?

Stokes is the only one really in contention. But should he be lumbered with the captaincy? His workload is immense as it is. But if he doesn't take the job, then who?

Let's hope Root's stepping down doesn't effect his batting! Captaincy cares hardly showed in his stats over the last few months.

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Post by alfie Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:13 pm

63 overs to get another 263. Be easy in a white ball context but Tests are a different animal altogether.

NZ are going to have to work their three remaining pace men hard , unless they are prepared to risk a lot of Bracewell and possibly Mitchell. Which I suppose could give England an advantage late in the day.

Somehow just can't see them running down this target but maybe my natural optimism has been mislaid. Nine wickets for NZ really ought not be on either , on this surface ; but I've watched England bat too often recently for comfort Smile

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:15 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
alfie wrote:I feel for Crawley , by the way. Yes his record just isn't good enough ; but he has enough talent : his problem really is that he lacks the fine judgement of when to leave and when to play those lovely drives.

In fairness to him he's not really an opener ; and he has copped a couple of very good balls from Boult in this match.

He's indeed likely to be kicked to death on the Internet - and very probably sent back to the shires at least for now. But we should consider that one might have held the same thoughts about Ollie Pope just a few days ago...

The thing is though Alfie; Pope at least has his county numbers to fall back on whilst Crawley doesn't.

You have beaten me to the point I was going to raise here Soul - Pope has like literally the best county record in modern times from an England bat to fall back on (and scored county runs at the start of this season yet again)...he was also dropped in Aus, and while he wasn't out of the squad, by all accounts used the time away from the limelight to work on some things.

Crawley clearly has talent - I think everyone would agree on that. But, at some point that has to translate into actual runs, both in either the test or county arena. While his opening partner Ben Compton was nearly cracking 1000 runs by the end of May in the county stuff, Crawley was yet again struggling early this season.

I think it's at the point now where he needs to go away, in fact maybe even a shift of counties (sorry Rob Key), and learn how to put up volume of runs in the county game, and hopefully come back to the England side in the future. The odd nice looking 50/60 interspersed with constantly nicking off in the test stuff isn't going to do him or the team any good for the long term I don't think now.

As for the game itself, Lees off to a nice start...I think England need to just bat normally this session (fast scoring ground anyways), and see where things are at tea. Ideally lose at most 2 wickets (one not being Root ideally!), and maybe be in the scenario of needing 150 odd in the final session going at 5s...where they could realistically have a dart. Don't think they need to do anything extravagant in this upcoming session
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Post by guildfordbat Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:16 pm

It seems like we have gone like a train and the Sky comms are talking now as if that's the case. However, maybe worth noting that we are behind the required rate, albeit only slightly. Going to be trick to maintain that throughout the middle session and especially if a wicket falls fairly early.

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Post by dummy_half Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:17 pm

alfie wrote:...

Fair point. Crawley doesn't bat at The Oval though Smile

I still think there is a quality player somewhere in there : but acknowledge that he may never actually emerge. Which would be a pity , I think...but that's how it goes sometimes.

Agree that there is a talented batsman in there, but unfortunately he's currently the new James Vince rather than the new David Gower - a few nice shots and then caught driving too often. Also, as others have highlighted, this match he's been out to two good deliveries rather than to poor shot selection - I've commented before that I'm generally less critical of players getting out in the first three or four overs before they've had a chance to settle (especially if beaten on a defensive shot) than I am when they have 25 or so and should be feeling more 'in'.

I suspect he'll get the next match, especially if England don't lose, but he does need to make a decent contribution soon or someone else (Compton?) will be given a chance.

Lees starting to look the part though - was highly thought of as a youngster at Yorkshire, and it was suggested when Lyth got picked for England that Lees should have been instead based on his ability, but he's probably not developed quite as well as was hoped, and so it's taken until he's in his late 20s to make his international debut.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:24 pm

Very enterprising start from Lees. For now, though, I don't think New Zealand will mind him playing those shots.

Three or more wickets in the afternoon will keep New Zealand on the victory road, they know that England tail is weak. Agree with Olly about how England should approach this chase.

Current odds - England 2/1; Draw 8/11; New Zealand 11/2. Gorgeous price on New Zealand. Let's not forget that it was only in the last test that England went from 75/1 to 141ao!


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Post by Lowlandbrit Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:27 pm

alfie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The thing is though Alfie; Pope at least has his county numbers to fall back on whilst Crawley doesn't.
Fair point. Crawley doesn't bat at The Oval though Smile
Problem for Crawley is that he keeps getting outscored by the rest of his all-English top order at Kent. Out of all the recently discarded openers he's probably the one most in need of a spell out of the team, although I'm starting to think he's more of a one day player really.

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Post by JDizzle Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:27 pm

dummy_half wrote:Wonder when the last time England started an innings with 25 runs from the same batsman?

Apparently Zatzman confirmed 29 is an England record for Lees!

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Post by James100 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:33 pm

[quote="Lowlandbrit"]
alfie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The thing is though Alfie; Pope at least has his county numbers to fall back on whilst Crawley doesn't.
Fair point. Crawley doesn't bat at The Oval though Smile

If you removed all of Pope's games at the Oval, he'd drop from the best CC average since his debut to sixth - just under 44.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:38 pm

James100 wrote:
alfie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The thing is though Alfie; Pope at least has his county numbers to fall back on whilst Crawley doesn't.
Fair point. Crawley doesn't bat at The Oval though Smile

If you removed all of Pope's games at the Oval, he'd drop from the best CC average since his debut to sixth - just under 44.

Which is still a very good average. Yes his Oval record is ridiculous but he's shown enough elsewhere to suggest he's worth persisting with, I don't think the same is true of Crawley. To put it bluntly Sibley and Burns were both better test openers.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:44 pm

Another drop. How's many that? Two today and must be close to ten in the whole test!

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Post by guildfordbat Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:46 pm

James100 wrote:
Lowlandbrit wrote:
alfie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The thing is though Alfie; Pope at least has his county numbers to fall back on whilst Crawley doesn't.
Fair point. Crawley doesn't bat at The Oval though Smile

If you removed all of Pope's games at the Oval, he'd drop from the best CC average since his debut to sixth - just under 44.

Hi James - tbf to Pope, you probably should discount 'favourite ground' scores for the top five batsmen in that scenario. Would that make a difference to his placing? Probably, I would guess. In any case, it's still very good as Soul says.

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Post by James100 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:54 pm

Yes absolutely, I meant that stat to show just how good he is! I think his insane home record means his overall first class record is underrated.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:57 pm

Henry's bowling well and is finding a little extra from the pitch.

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Post by James100 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 1:59 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
James100 wrote:
Lowlandbrit wrote:
alfie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The thing is though Alfie; Pope at least has his county numbers to fall back on whilst Crawley doesn't.
Fair point. Crawley doesn't bat at The Oval though Smile

If you removed all of Pope's games at the Oval, he'd drop from the best CC average since his debut to sixth - just under 44.

Hi James - tbf to Pope, you probably should discount 'favourite ground' scores for the top five batsmen in that scenario. Would that make a difference to his placing? Probably, I would guess. In any case, it's still very good as Soul says.
He's close behind 4&5 so I imagine they'd drop below him if you removed their favourite grounds (Burns 1, Ballance 2 & Cook 3)

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Post by guildfordbat Tue 14 Jun 2022, 2:04 pm

James100 wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
James100 wrote:
Lowlandbrit wrote:
alfie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The thing is though Alfie; Pope at least has his county numbers to fall back on whilst Crawley doesn't.
Fair point. Crawley doesn't bat at The Oval though Smile

If you removed all of Pope's games at the Oval, he'd drop from the best CC average since his debut to sixth - just under 44.

Hi James - tbf to Pope, you probably should discount 'favourite ground' scores for the top five batsmen in that scenario. Would that make a difference to his placing? Probably, I would guess. In any case, it's still very good as Soul says.
He's close behind 4&5 so I imagine they'd drop below him if you removed their favourite grounds (Burns 1, Ballance 2 & Cook 3)

Not surprised Burns is there. I saw he got a ton at Taunton yesterday - and suspect Crawley saw that too.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 2:06 pm

Absolutely brilliant from Henry. clap

The drop of Pope doesn't count for too much.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 14 Jun 2022, 2:07 pm

Henry has been superb so far, much needed for NZ - Pope gone. If England are to get close, you'd fancy the man walking to the crease now will need to get a fair few again!
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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 2:11 pm

Wow, New Zealand's main man downs England's main man. Good catch.

That should end any hope of an England win.

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Post by alfie Tue 14 Jun 2022, 2:12 pm

ah well...even Joe isn't infallible I guess Sad

Game over . Boult the hero and NZ are going to level the series...well done them. clap

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 14 Jun 2022, 2:14 pm

Boult has been utterly superb this test - that's a great caught and bowled.

Sitting pretty on that 5/1 price I got for a NZ win at close yesterday now...
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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 2:16 pm

It's been a bizarre test for Root. Scored a fantastic 176 in the first innings, but his drop of Mitchell before that cost England the test (in all probability).

England have 56 overs to survive.

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Post by guildfordbat Tue 14 Jun 2022, 2:17 pm

alfie wrote:ah well...even Joe isn't infallible I guess  Sad

Game over . Boult the hero and NZ are going to level the series...well done them. clap


Not yet but for England it is Operation Save The Game.

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Post by dummy_half Tue 14 Jun 2022, 2:21 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:ah well...even Joe isn't infallible I guess  Sad

Game over . Boult the hero and NZ are going to level the series...well done them. clap


Not yet but for England it is Operation Save The Game.

But with Bairstow and Stokes, chances are we'll score quickly if they can stay in. Definitely NZ favourites now, but England could still score at the needed rate without playing silly cricket. Need to see off Henry and Boult though.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 2:23 pm

Bairstow looks completely lost, I'm not sure he's in for a long stay.

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Post by kingraf Tue 14 Jun 2022, 2:24 pm

Pretty sure it's gonna end up being a case of NZ's aimless morning leaving them 45 minutes short of a victory
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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 14 Jun 2022, 2:59 pm

These chases get bigged up as possible all the time and they quickly falter time and time again. We all remember THAT Greenidge innings not because it happens all the time but because it doesn't, the attempt itself was absurd let alone actually pulling it off. The only other time I can remember similar happening was Headingly 2001 when Butcher produced the innings of his life but the series was dead already by that point.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 3:00 pm

Lees again getting a start and not kicking on. Lovely ball from Southee, though, right in the corridor of uncertainty.

Just two from the flimsy tail.

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Post by guildfordbat Tue 14 Jun 2022, 3:12 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:These chases get bigged up as possible all the time and they quickly falter time and time again. We all remember THAT Greenidge and Gomes partnership innings not because it happens all the time but because it doesn't, the attempt itself was absurd let alone actually pulling it off. The only other time I can remember similar happening was Headingly 2001 when Butcher produced the innings of his life but the series was dead already by that point.

Sorry, Soul but some things have to be done. Wink

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Post by alfie Tue 14 Jun 2022, 3:44 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:These chases get bigged up as possible all the time and they quickly falter time and time again. We all remember THAT Greenidge and Gomes partnership innings not because it happens all the time but because it doesn't, the attempt itself was absurd let alone actually pulling it off. The only other time I can remember similar happening was Headingly 2001 when Butcher produced the innings of his life but the series was dead already by that point.

Sorry, Soul but some things have to be done. Wink

Brilliant , guildford thumbsup

I should have known you wouldn't miss a chance like that Smile

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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 3:47 pm

New Zealand missing Jamieson in that middle session, with Bracewell not generating much from the pitch. Doesn't look as though England are going to shut up shop, they seem intent on going for it. New Zealand have to hope that Boult has enough in the tank to get them over the line after a monumental effort in this test.

38 overs left. 160 for England. Six wickets for New Zealand.

Still favour New Zealand over the draw from here. I think they've got about 20 overs to get the next two wickets and expose the tail to remain favourites. I also think that eventually Stokes and Bairstow are going to play one shot too many in their victory quest. An England win remains a fanciful notion from here with only these two capable of scoring at the rate England need, there's nothing in reserve.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 14 Jun 2022, 3:50 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:These chases get bigged up as possible all the time and they quickly falter time and time again. We all remember THAT Greenidge and Gomes partnership innings not because it happens all the time but because it doesn't, the attempt itself was absurd let alone actually pulling it off. The only other time I can remember similar happening was Headingly 2001 when Butcher produced the innings of his life but the series was dead already by that point.

Sorry, Soul but some things have to be done. Wink

It won't be the first time and it won't be the last time that Larry Gomes has been forgotten. It might stick in my head one day.

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Post by dummy_half Tue 14 Jun 2022, 3:53 pm

Still well poised - 160 in 38 overs with 6 wickets left, but only 3 proper batsmen.

Another 15 overs of Stokes and Bairstow in full flow would swing it back England's way. One quick wicket away from trying to hang on for the draw...

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Post by alfie Tue 14 Jun 2022, 3:58 pm

Must say I am a bit surprised to see these two together at tea. They are playing as positively as you'd expect : and to be honest that is probably their best chance as neither of them are built for the Amiss/Atherton/Collingwood type rearguard action.

Commentators are still bigging up the run chase but I think they are in fantasy land. Not even half way and really only Foakes to come who knows which end of a bat to hold. OK , bit of an exaggeration - but I'm not expecting 167 from Broad or 81 from Jimmy today Smile Maybe Jack Leach might manage 1 not out...

NZ still on for the win if they can break this pair in the not too distant future. Draw is still a chance : England win getting into lottery number chances.

But nice to have a live game into the last session so I hope the public will forgive Stokes & co if it all ends in tears...

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Post by guildfordbat Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:06 pm

dummy_half wrote:Still well poised - 160 in 38 overs with 6 wickets left, but only 3 proper batsmen.

Another 15 overs of Stokes and Bairstow in full flow would swing it back England's way. One quick wicket away from trying to hang on for the draw...

Yes, and Foakes is far more a proper batsman than a biffer. He might well be able to stay with Bairstow or Stokes but I would very much doubt him being able to take over from either in keeping the rate going for any significant time.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:10 pm

NZ might be getting a bit jittery at this fast England start.

Only 138 more. It's definitely death or glory for Stokes and Bairstow.

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Post by Afro Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:22 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Sitting pretty on that 5/1 price I got for a NZ win at close yesterday now...

Should have waited. You could have got 8/1 now Whistle
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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:23 pm

Well...I don't think the run-rate is a problem now for England. Unbelievable start. Bairstow's had some extraordinary fortune and also hit some astonishing shots.

Can they get 101 with six left?

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Post by dummy_half Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:24 pm

4 overs, 59 runs scored, mostly by Bairstow. Target down to 101 and NZ not able to bring any sort of control.

And now Stokes has jarred a knee - might not be too keen on quick singles from now on.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:27 pm

dummy_half wrote:4 overs, 59 runs scored, mostly by Bairstow. Target down to 101 and NZ not able to bring any sort of control.

And now Stokes has jarred a knee - might not be too keen on quick singles from now on.

I don't think Jonny has been too keen on those quick singles anyway.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:32 pm

Bracewell? This is brave...but maybe not much choice.

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Post by dummy_half Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:33 pm

Hard hats being issued in the crowd?

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Post by alfie Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:40 pm

Quite an innings of YJB's Shocked

If it weren't for Stokes hobbling he'd have broken Jessop's record.

Great innings anyway clap clap clap

But with the skipper battling that injury he may need to do a lot more yet...

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Post by JDizzle Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:43 pm

A 77 ball ton on D5 in a run chase is absolutely mental. Even accounting for TB’s weird dimensions!

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Post by dummy_half Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:45 pm

YJB misses the fastsst Test century by an English man by one ball.

ANd now 6-6-4 in three balls off Bracewell.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:46 pm

This has been one of the greatest test matches of all time and I don't know what else to say.

Bairstow looked lost when he came to the crease, now he's conjured up one of the best test innings there's ever been.

58 to get. A bit similar to the third test v SA in 2012. England fell short on that day. All the way this time?

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Post by alfie Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:52 pm

Fifty for Stokes now ...on one leg but he can still hit 'em clap

150 stand in just 112 balls Shocked

Takes care of the RRR : just the wickets to worry about.

Fifty to get...

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Post by dummy_half Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:54 pm

And the ball has gone out of shape...

Probably pretty much cubic after the punishment Bairstow and Stokes have inflicted.

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Post by alfie Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:57 pm

dummy_half wrote:And the ball has gone out of shape...

Probably pretty much cubic after the punishment Bairstow and Stokes have inflicted.

Stokes seems to have it in for the replacement ball too Smile

Crazy stuff. Need 31 more...

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Post by JuliusHMarx Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:57 pm

Having read some of the above posts, it became obvious England were going to lose. Anything happened since then?

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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Jun 2022, 5:01 pm

A twist?

What a stupendous assault from Bairstow. Ends on 136.

NZ one away from the tail, but England just 27 from victory.

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