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England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down

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Post by sirfredperry Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:24 am

First topic message reminder :

Joe Root has decided to step down from the captaincy. Main problem now is - who should take over?

Stokes is the only one really in contention. But should he be lumbered with the captaincy? His workload is immense as it is. But if he doesn't take the job, then who?

Let's hope Root's stepping down doesn't effect his batting! Captaincy cares hardly showed in his stats over the last few months.

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Post by dummy_half Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:01 pm

Time for one final twist? YJB gone, and we still need 27.

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Post by alfie Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:01 pm

Aargh ! Bairstow edges behind !

End of a truly magnificent innings clap clap clap

Now then : still need 27 runs. Could there be a twist in the tail yet ?

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Post by guildfordbat Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:02 pm

Truly incredible - Bairstow's innings and an appearance from Jules.

Anyway, this should be set up for Foakes to see us home - or a jinx ....

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:04 pm

Zaltz has confirmed that this test has had the most boundaries hit of any test in history.

Not sure how I feel about that.

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Post by alfie Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:06 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Truly incredible - Bairstow's innings and an appearance from Jules.

Anyway, this should be set up for Foakes to see us home - or a jinx ....

Very Happy

Bit unhappy about your tempting the jinx , Guildford...

They lost the last five for 23 in the first innings ghost

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:11 pm

Dear oh dear, Henry just misses a run-out of Stokes.

Don't think NZ should put the field back for Stokes. England can get 'em in singles. The tail isn't exposed yet.

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Post by JDizzle Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:18 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Foakes is having a brilliant test with those gloves.

Absolutely. Just needs a red ink 20 this evening to get us over the line and him the MotM ....  Wink

That 20* is on - but I suspect he might get pipped to Player of the Match!

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:20 pm

A drop. There was bound to be one more.

14 more. A Boult hat-trick and a tied test genuinely wouldn't surprise me at this juncture.

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Post by alfie Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:23 pm

Duty281 wrote:A drop. There was bound to be one more.

14 more. A Boult hat-trick and a tied test genuinely wouldn't surprise me at this juncture.

Very Happy Seems anything possible today !

But that ain't happening ...down to single figures now as Stokes goes 4 4...


And 4 Yahoo

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:25 pm

England win. That was the most incredible and bizarre test I've seen in my life. Better than Headingley 2019. Many punters on 606v2 to be poorer this evening (including my good self). Oh and England win the series. England have won two in a row. Utterly mad.

I need to lie down in a darkened room to process the madness. Well done England, especially Bairstow and Stokes.

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Post by dummy_half Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:27 pm

Quick recap:
The equation at tea - England needed 160 in 38 overs. New Zealand needed 6 wickets
The result: England knocked off 160 in 16 overs for the loss of one wicket.

Stokes not out 75 off 70 balls on one leg, and he was the support act no-one will be talking about.

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Post by alfie Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:31 pm

What a Game ! What a run chase !

What a start for Stokes/McCullum...

Kiwis unlucky to lose Jamieson , it should be remembered. But for England to chase that down (with 22 overs to spare !) was just incredible.

I was , to be honest , attempting to channel my old pal Trebell with some earlier pessimism...but I truly did not expect that. Awesome.

Time to celebrate Bubbly cake guinness music

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:34 pm

Delighted to be proved completely and utterly wrong. You will never see a more brutal final day assault than the one Bairstow produced today.

Going for it at tea looked like suicide but to pull it off so easily and with 22 overs to spare is incredible and fully deserved. I also don't think it's been a bowlers graveyard either, if the dropped catches were taken and there have been a lot of them then it's a different game.

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Post by JDizzle Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:35 pm

I thought England would shut up shop when they were 93-4. That was absolutely mental. For a side that hasn’t looked like they could hold a bat for 5 years…

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Post by alfie Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:40 pm

Since they've won and nobody died I don't really need to bring out the quote I was musing on earlier as the crazy hitting started...

French observer of the Charge of the Light Brigade : "C'est Magnifique ; Mais ce n'ais pas la Guerre".

But it does rather sum up the New England approach to batting...

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Post by alfie Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:50 pm

JDizzle wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Foakes is having a brilliant test with those gloves.

Absolutely. Just needs a red ink 20 this evening to get us over the line and him the MotM ....  Wink

That 20* is on - but I suspect he might get pipped to Player of the Match!

Some remarkable performances are not going to get the MoTM award they would normally bring ! Pope , Blundell , Boult , Root ...and even Mitchell with his great double batting efforts...

Not much doubt YJB gets the nod...

Probably stays in the side next week now Cool

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:01 pm

JDizzle wrote:I thought England would shut up shop when they were 93-4. That was absolutely mental. For a side that hasn’t looked like they could hold a bat for 5 years…

Eerily reminiscent of that “new era” game for the ODI side against the same opponent at Edgbaston in 2015, where they were 202-6…but kept going for that 400 which really signalled the start of that side - let’s hope we look back upon today as something similar for this test era!
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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:11 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
JDizzle wrote:I thought England would shut up shop when they were 93-4. That was absolutely mental. For a side that hasn’t looked like they could hold a bat for 5 years…

Eerily reminiscent of that “new era” game for the ODI side against the same opponent at Edgbaston in 2015, where they were 202-6…but kept going for that 400 which really signalled the start of that side - let’s hope we look back upon today as something similar for this test era!

I'm not surprised they went for it, I did expect it, but I think in the test game such an approach will yield more losses than victories in the long-term.

At 93/4 England probably thought that just shutting up shop was futile and would only end one way with the players left. So they attacked, a hit and hope almost, and it worked because Bairstow had the innings of his life, like Stokes in 2019 (x2). Bairstow's aggressiveness knocked the Kiwis off their line and lengths and the New Zealand bowling really did fall apart v the challenge laid down. And losing Jamieson was so tough on New Zealand, especially after CdG damaged his heel in the first test.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:17 pm

Well done England...Stokes/McCullum seems a partnership made in Heaven for you..

Good times ahead I'm sure.

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Post by msp83 Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:34 pm

What a remarkable win for England. The pitch remained ugly for the game throughout, but the intent shown by both sides, and McCullum/Stokes effect on England really made this possible, besides some reckless batting and poor captaincy from Latham. England would never have done it under the previous regime, one can safely say. Someone like a Bairstow is given the freedom to play this brand of cricket rather than the conventional 'Templet Cricket', and we have something special even on an otherwise 'Poor Ratable' track.
Must say when I could catch up with early actions and when Boult send Root packing 97 short of yet another hundred, thought England was done. But they didn't choose to sit on the 1-0 series lead and looked to take the attack to the opposition instead. Remarkable...

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:23 pm

The test underlined the difference between old England and new. Last year, England declined a similar chase. Today, England went for it and pulled it off. Fantastic. Will it result in more positives than negatives in the long-term? Perhaps so. General thoughts/observations:

1) It was the wrong call to bowl first. But it worked out in the end.
2) NZ scored 553 in the first innings and lost. They could have been bowled out for below 300 had Root caught Mitchell. But they scored 553 and lost which is astonishing.
3) NZ probably wouldn't have lost if Jamieson remained fit. They have been spectacularly unfortunate with injuries in this series. CdG's injury had already cost them in the first test. Actual substitutions should be implemented in the game (one per).
4) 11 drops in the game! Madness.
5) NZ collapsed late in the third innings again, meaning for the second test in a row they didn't quite put it out of sight even though they should have. They will feel that both tests were in their control and yet they lost them.
6) That amount of boundaries in the test isn't good for the game. Hitting a boundary should be a tougher challenge than it was in this test. Bat sizes should have tighter regulation.
7) It will be interesting to see how England adapt this aggressive batting approach. On a good batting wicket like this it came off (in both the first innings and second), but what will England do on a raging turner in the sub-continent?
8) Bairstow's innings was the innings of his life. He successfully pressured the Kiwi bowlers who had no response and fell apart. It was like a T20 at the end.
9) Stokes' innings was also incredible, if not as jaw-dropping as Bairstow's.
10) England have successfully landed on their 3-7 axis for the whole summer. They should be consistent with selection in this regard. Lees has also bought himself some time, but Crawley should be dropped for Compton. I'm not 100% sure of Pope yet at 3, but he's got a ton and something to build on. Foakes' glovework was outstanding in this test.
11) England have won this series which is a fantastic achievement and one I thought was beyond them. But it's too early to say if they have turned a corner yet.
12) New Zealand have lost five of eight tests since becoming World Test Champions.
13) England, with these two victories, are no longer at the foot of the table.
14) It was an extraordinary test and perhaps one of the best I've ever seen in terms of drama.

Nine days away from the next test, so time to calm down before then. Before that test, however, England play three ODIs in the Netherlands (Friday/Sunday/Wednesday). It won't seem quite the same as today.

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Post by VTR Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm

What a day to be in a remote location with no mobile reception! Enjoyed catching up on the comments on here to relive the roller coaster it must have been. What an incredible win. And yes, I will admit I wrote England off after the first day!

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Post by Lowlandbrit Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:37 pm

They may well have decided going in that they cared less about the result than setting an example of the mentality they want going forward. Bit fortunate perhaps to be playing a NZ team that seems to have peaked last year (and picked up a few crucial injuries at key moments as mentioned), but winning is a good habit to get into no matter how or against who.

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Post by guildfordbat Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:59 pm

Duty281 wrote:

... And losing Jamieson was so tough on Guildford in Joey's comp New Zealand, especially after CdG damaged his heel in the first test.

Just putting that last bit right for you, Duty. Wink

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Post by JDizzle Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:41 pm

Bizarrely bowling first is probably what won England that game. NZ were in a very tricky position when going out to bat in the third innings, which can happen in these flat pitch games - especially when you are 1-0 and there is little deterioration. Counter intuitively bowling first is the more successful strategy on flat pitches for exactly that reason! NZ had two options - leave England a gettable chase or bat themselves out of a chance of bowling them out. Then England have the flexibility to go for it or just shut up shop.

Obviously it relies on batting well second innings, but you have to bat well first innings if you choose to bat.

Would say the weird dimensions of Trent Bridge had more to do with the boundary numbers than anything about bat sizes. Guys are just bigger and stronger these days, and since the work they have had done Trent Bridge isn't cricket ground shaped anymore. It's no coincidence the two times England broke the ODI world record were at Nottingham. Makes for fun games though.

Anderson only bowled 8.4 overs second innings. I know he was bowling at the end and McCullum has made noises about wanting his best team for every game, but do wonder whether we see him miss out at Headingley. No idea who would come in - maybe it will be the other Overton as Craig suffered a concussion in the CC this week.


Last edited by JDizzle on Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by kingraf Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:52 pm

Well fair play to England. Chases like this often require something special and I didn't think Jonny Bairstow was the type. He's got three tons on three continents this year, so I guess he's in career form. Not much more you can say. If a team chases 300 on a genuine final day, you doff your cap and move on
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Post by VTR Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:08 pm

JDizzle beat me to comments about the short boundary at Trent Bridge. Since they built the new stand, that boundary is just a target in all forms of game.

For the next match I think Anderson should be rested. I think the series win has bought Crawley and Leach another game. They were both poor here but it didn't matter as the other 9 all had somewhere between decent and exceptional games

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Post by guildfordbat Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:21 pm

Duty281 wrote: ... General thoughts/observations:

 
3) NZ probably wouldn't have lost if Jamieson remained fit. They have been spectacularly unfortunate with injuries in this series. CdG's injury had already cost them in the first test. Actual substitutions should be implemented in the game (one per).
 ...

More seriously on the Jamieson and CdG injuries during the Test. 

I actually have mixed feelings on the use of substitutes. 

My typically traditional view is that the strength of a player and his resistance to injuries is part of his skills set. Thus, if a player pulls up, that's just tough luck and part of the game. Even more so, if a team takes a chance on picking an injury prone player or one who hopes to shake off an existing injury during the game and it backfires. From a tactical pov, I also enjoy the captaincy / cricket management attempts to solve the loss of the player although that might be considered an overly self indulgent factor.

However, I have no desire whatsoever for former players to experience dementia (or similar) in later life as a result of playing on in a game with a concussion type injury. [My great-uncle was a professional footballer in the 1920s/30s and suffered from dementia in his final years, probably connected with him regularly heading - he was a centre forward - an old style leather football.] I'm therefore comfortable with use of substitutes as currently allowed. As an aside, in the current Championship match at Taunton, Somerset have used two concussion subs. I've no problem with that, subject to the medical checks being genuine which I'm sure they were and the replacements being a similar type of player.

Having said all that and against my traditional view, it seems odd and probably wrong that England were allowed a sub for Leach in the first Test when he dived for the ball and hit his head but would not have been allowed one if he had instead broken his arm. 

All things considered, maybe continue with an unlimited number of concussion subs allowed and one sub for a ''new injury'' arising during a game. I don't pretend it may be tricky determining what is a ''new injury''.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:28 pm

I would be against injury substitutes for many of the reasons you outline there GB.

If England were to select Archer for instance and he aggravates his elbow injury, would it be right for him to be subbed? For me the answer would be no, also with Anderson, his age means his workload needs managing, a get out of jail free card would seem unfair.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:41 pm

Obviously superb superb win, and a fantastic series win also - some great resilience shown, and while obviously this doesn't overnight mean England are some world beating side, it is important for the McCullum/Stokes axis to begin on a high note to be able to get some momentum and buy in from players to what they're trying to achieve. Of course, won't always work or be as glorious as this...and there will be low points - but it's going to be fun either way I fancy, which as a fan I look forward too!

As for the side...think Duty is right that the 3-7 batting axis, fitness permitting, now gets the whole summer - which will be quite nice to see hopefully. Lets hope Pope can kick on and have a good summer in particular, would be very handy for England if he could nail that #3 spot. Also hope that Stokes's knee issue isn't anything that will cause him to miss anytime...

Do think Crawley is on shaky ground - and likely needs a score in this final test at Headingley. We've noted in previous discussions his issues, and I think Nasser summed it up nicely when discussing after the game...yes he got two good balls here, which is going to happen to openers in England. What his issue is when he got in at Lords for example, he doesn't "cash in" with even a 70/80 type score, it's a 30/40 and then out. If he gets a similar opportunity at Headingley, he really needs to knuckle down and push onto a worthwhile score. Think Burns waits in the wings if he is dropped...
Lees seems to be showing some development, not sure he's ever going to be a world beater but he had a decent test here.

Bairstow has certainly shut me up since coming back into the side in Australia - not sure others would've got so many chances, but he's making the most of this latest one for sure, a ludicrous knock today. Definitely gets the summer now, and you'd think he will also enjoy Pakistan in the winter being one of our better players of spin.
Foakes with a nice test as well, much needed knock with the bat first dig (dismissal aside). Very very tidy effort with the gloves too.

Potts with a nice bounceback effort with the ball in the 2nd dig, after a poor 1st innings. Kid should be nowhere near batting at 8 though, Leach if he plays needs to bat over him cos he can at least stick around! Don't think he's done anything to usurp Woakes/Robinson if and when they come back to fitness, but he's added his name to the rotation pool for certain, and high up in that too.
Broad/Anderson - solid, nothing spectacular. Hope Jimmy is alright, he did look pretty damn stiff in the field yesterday and obviously only 8 overs in the 2nd dig...does raise some alarm bells.
Disappointing from Leach this test in my opinion with the ball...hasn't really developed like we would have hoped I don't think. Not sure he will lose his spot as top spinner anytime soon, and he is clearly a good option for sub continental tours...but I don't think he could have complaints if England decide to go all seam attack if Stokes can't bowl with his knee knock at Headingley.

New Zealand wise...Boult and Mitchell were superb, Blundell with a great innings in the first dig too.
Outside of that...not great! Said on day 3 that thought they bowled horrendously, and evidently they lost the plot a bit in the onslaught this PM too. Really missed Williamson's presence in the field I think, Latham seemed to have little to no clue (no idea why Doull is so keen to make that switch permanent for what it's worth). Their batting on day 4 was the worst though, some incredibly soft dismissals on reflection, two run outs in particular is quite embarrassing. Don't think they knew whether to stick or twist, and in the end did neither...
I still didn't understand not picking Wagner for this game. Bizarre that he's going to have only played one game tops on this tour, I don't really know why Henry seems to have usurped him in their pecking order (I know he took at 7 for against SA in the first test, but Wagner has consistently proved he's the better bowler overall).

See the note about them losing 5 of their 8 tests post World Test Championship win, they do have a little bit of a feel of the end of the Strauss/Flower era to them currently. Hard to stay at the top of the mountain, or find the motivation/next objective once you've climbed that mountain after dedicating such a lot of resource and effort to get there...
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Post by dummy_half Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:37 am

I really don't like the idea of going into a match other than on a real green-top with no better spin bowler than Root in the side, but if Stokes isn't fit to bowl, we can't go with an attack of Anderson, Broad, Potts and Leach. Needs another seamer, and preferably one who can bat at 8.

As for NZ, I don't think the issue was the bowlers' performance after tea - there were a few bad deliveries, but it was mostly decent enough bowling that was getting dispatched to all parts of Nottingham (and at least one from Stokes reached Derby). A strategy error in starting to try to bounce out Bairstow straight after tea, ended up just giving him the momentum to go crazy and take the game away. Oddly, being wise after the event, I wonder if NZ should have stuck with that approach longer in the hope it would buy them the wicket; as it was, it just got Johnny's eye in, and then he was hitting everything everywhere. May have been better to start off with Boult and the spinner.
The big reason for NZ's loss though was their third innings performance - I think there were only a couple of wickets you could say were got out - two run outs and various catches at point, square leg (x2), mid on and mid off, and yet there wasn't the impression they were really batting aggressively.

Still a very good Test match, with the result uncertain until 45 minutes after tea on the fifth day, with no need for ambitious declarations...

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Post by alfie Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:36 am

Probably a good thing that there is a proper break before the next Test : after all that excitement we all need a rest !

I am as mystified as Olly that NZ haven't employed Wagner. Whether he'd have done a better job than Henry of bouncing Jonny out we will never know ; but he does seem to offer something very different from Boult and Southee and I'd have thought he was an automatic choice once they decided to go without a proper spinner. Reckon he must play at Leeds.
Nothing they could do about Jamieson , of course. Have been unlucky with first CDG at Lord's and then this...not to mention Williamson sitting this one out - although on recent form maybe that was not such a big deal. But losing a bowler mid-match always hurts.

Is that chap Ravindra in their squad - or can he be coaxed away from Durham ? Seems in good nick...

That NZ second innings was a bit shambolic. Two run outs and some soft dismissals as well ; and not as if they were in totally frenzied attack : though I suppose they got about what they reasonably wanted in a 300 lead and 70 plus overs to go at England. Guess you could say the same about the latter part of England's first innings.

Stokes will be ... well , stoked , after all that. Fair enough too. I do think he might need to look back at some of his tactics on the last morning though : bowling Leach and himself and a plethora of short balls didn't strike me as the best approach when Broad and Anderson were at least rested from the night before. The new ball and Anderson finished things ; but it might have been thirty runs too many...not that it matters now ; just food for thought.

Any England changes ? Crawley on thin ice I guess : under some pressure from Burns and Compton - and probably good for his sake that Harry Brook isn't an opener ! Not sure Zac is either , to be honest :but nowhere else to go at the moment so he better fire at Headingley if he gets a another chance.

Bowling more of an issue : Anderson underused second innings - may just have been to preserve him ; and with a nice break now I suspect he will be OK for this one. Potts had a poor game until late on day four when he bowled a much better spell and took important wickets : reckon he has done enough in two matches to carry on (even if the prospective alternatives weren't all injured !) But Leach is a concern. Really no impact at all ; and even allowing the conditions gave him little help his lack of control is a problem for Stokes - and would be a bigger one if Ben is unable to bowl next week. Frankly not sure what they would do if that were the case so hopefully he recovers from that leg issue in time.

Lots to like from the match for the home team : Root doing what he does ; Stokes leading from the front ; Pope with what looks like a breakthrough ; YJB with a miracle innings ; Lees advancing his cause and Anderson and Broad still doing the business. And notably Foakes looking more comfortable both with bat and gloves : confidence from that innings at Lord's flowing through - though despite guildford's intriguing suggestion from last week I will leave him at seven rather than five , I think Smile

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Post by kingraf Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:58 am

As an aside, it's funny how cricket cycles work. Australia always seem to sort out their issues before facing New Zealand, who they never lose to. South Africa similarly seem to sort out their issues before facing Australia (recently anyways), and England seem to have this weird Lazarus-esque revival every time a South Africa tour is on the horizon!
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Post by VTR Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:59 am

I'm not so sure England are peaking ready for the South Africa series. As others have said, NZ are probably on a bit of a decline. England found something in this series and surprised us all, but these were two games in the balance for a long time in both games. Feels a bit like two 50/50 wins in a row for England, they won't do this every time, as good as its been.

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Post by msp83 Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:45 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Obviously superb superb win, and a fantastic series win also - some great resilience shown, and while obviously this doesn't overnight mean England are some world beating side, it is important for the McCullum/Stokes axis to begin on a high note to be able to get some momentum and buy in from players to what they're trying to achieve. Of course, won't always work or be as glorious as this...and there will be low points - but it's going to be fun either way I fancy, which as a fan I look forward too!

As for the side...think Duty is right that the 3-7 batting axis, fitness permitting, now gets the whole summer - which will be quite nice to see hopefully. Lets hope Pope can kick on and have a good summer in particular, would be very handy for England if he could nail that #3 spot. Also hope that Stokes's knee issue isn't anything that will cause him to miss anytime...

Do think Crawley is on shaky ground - and likely needs a score in this final test at Headingley. We've noted in previous discussions his issues, and I think Nasser summed it up nicely when discussing after the game...yes he got two good balls here, which is going to happen to openers in England. What his issue is when he got in at Lords for example, he doesn't "cash in" with even a 70/80 type score, it's a 30/40 and then out. If he gets a similar opportunity at Headingley, he really needs to knuckle down and push onto a worthwhile score. Think Burns waits in the wings if he is dropped...
Lees seems to be showing some development, not sure he's ever going to be a world beater but he had a decent test here.

Bairstow has certainly shut me up since coming back into the side in Australia - not sure others would've got so many chances, but he's making the most of this latest one for sure, a ludicrous knock today. Definitely gets the summer now, and you'd think he will also enjoy Pakistan in the winter being one of our better players of spin.
Foakes with a nice test as well, much needed knock with the bat first dig (dismissal aside). Very very tidy effort with the gloves too.

Potts with a nice bounceback effort with the ball in the 2nd dig, after a poor 1st innings. Kid should be nowhere near batting at 8 though, Leach if he plays needs to bat over him cos he can at least stick around! Don't think he's done anything to usurp Woakes/Robinson if and when they come back to fitness, but he's added his name to the rotation pool for certain, and high up in that too.
Broad/Anderson - solid, nothing spectacular. Hope Jimmy is alright, he did look pretty damn stiff in the field yesterday and obviously only 8 overs in the 2nd dig...does raise some alarm bells.
Disappointing from Leach this test in my opinion with the ball...hasn't really developed like we would have hoped I don't think. Not sure he will lose his spot as top spinner anytime soon, and he is clearly a good option for sub continental tours...but I don't think he could have complaints if England decide to go all seam attack if Stokes can't bowl with his knee knock at Headingley.

New Zealand wise...Boult and Mitchell were superb, Blundell with a great innings in the first dig too.
Outside of that...not great! Said on day 3 that thought they bowled horrendously, and evidently they lost the plot a bit in the onslaught this PM too. Really missed Williamson's presence in the field I think, Latham seemed to have little to no clue (no idea why Doull is so keen to make that switch permanent for what it's worth). Their batting on day 4 was the worst though, some incredibly soft dismissals on reflection, two run outs in particular is quite embarrassing. Don't think they knew whether to stick or twist, and in the end did neither...
I still didn't understand not picking Wagner for this game. Bizarre that he's going to have only played one game tops on this tour, I don't really know why Henry seems to have usurped him in their pecking order (I know he took at 7 for against SA in the first test, but Wagner has consistently proved he's the better bowler overall).

See the note about them losing 5 of their 8 tests post World Test Championship win, they do have a little bit of a feel of the end of the Strauss/Flower era to them currently. Hard to stay at the top of the mountain, or find the motivation/next objective once you've climbed that mountain after dedicating such a lot of resource and effort to get there...

Bairstow has been one of England's better test bats after the emergence of Joe Root. Giving him the gloves, then taking it off when his keeping improved significantly, then moving him up and down the order, England managements messed him about quite a bit. And then dropped him for county/flat track bullies like Oliver Pope was just ridiculous. I know Bairstow gets bowled a lot for a test bat, he has other issues with his technique. But he doesn't become a rabit in headlights at the first sight of spin, in fact is one of their better players of spin. So he's been a limited batter, but has been one of the better batters to have emerged in the last decade, and like Moeen Ali, has been badly mismanaged.
Nothing surprising from Leach, he's a pretty average spinner, this is the kind of benchmark that one can expect from him. He could produce some performance of note may be in the 2nd innings from time to time, and can be handy in spinning conditions along with some other spinning options. So an at par performance from him. Will Moeen, now unretired at test level, be playing some FC cricket any time soon?
As for New Zealand, they are downright stupid in not playing Wagner, he's clearly the superior bowler. Henry is a capable replacement for the top 4, but hasn't done anything to be a regular above Wagner. Wagner is the handiest of the NZ quicks on flat tracks. And they badly missed him in this test. He was very unlikely to fall apart later on in the game like Henry did. Henry has a good spell in him per innings, Wagner is a master at coming back very late in the day, and keep the intensity levels up, and bowl the challenging overs with the old ball, always being at the batter. Comparing Henry and him as New Zealand management seem to be doing, is silly! Now that Jamieson may struggle to make the next test, Wagner might get his opportunity...
Another thing about the NZ team composition is around Henry Nicholls. He does have a decent test record. But he clearly isn't a number 4. There are too many issues with his game, technique and temperament both to be the one to step into the Ross Taylor void. KW should be fit for the next test hopefully. Mitchell has been absolutely outstanding in the series so far. Will Young, while hasn't been solid, has had a few OK innings. So will they drop Nicholls for the next test? They need some spin in the bowling mix, Williamson has long-term injury concerns around his elbow and shouldn't be bowling too much. Michael Bracewell has had a decent test debut with bat and ball. Think they should get Wagner in for Jamieson if he's ruled out, else should replace Henry. Williamson obviously to come back in, and Nicholls benched. Another added reason is that Devon Conway seems the best replacement candidate for Rosco Taylor, though they are very different players. Conway can open and bat anywhere in the top 4, but if Young can do a job, Conway is their best bet at 4.

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:35 pm

I don't think i've seen it mentioned but something that's gone under the radar somewhat was the importance of Anderson bowling dry in New Zealands first innings. In a test match where bowlers pacemen were routinely going at over four an over, him sending down 27 overs at 2.3 made a roughly 50 run difference, he's still so difficult to score off and sends down so few boundary balls.

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Post by James100 Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:32 am

Devon Conway joins Bracewell on the covid list... both theoretically have time to recover before the third Test, but a good chance that they'll still have it and miss the game

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Post by Duty281 Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:44 am

James100 wrote:Devon Conway joins Bracewell on the covid list... both theoretically have time to recover before the third Test, but a good chance that they'll still have it and miss the game

I imagine the third test might be in doubt if Covid is going through the Kiwi side like that.

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Post by Jetty Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:32 pm

J Overton added to the squad. Is this because Stokes might not bowl.

J Overton, Potts, Broad, Anderson with no Leach?

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Post by JDizzle Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:41 pm

JDizzle wrote:

Anderson only bowled 8.4 overs second innings. I know he was bowling at the end and McCullum has made noises about wanting his best team for every game, but do wonder whether we see him miss out at Headingley. No idea who would come in - maybe it will be the other Overton as Craig suffered a concussion in the CC this week


So it is Jamie who comes in, but for Parky. Makes sense as no need to carry two spinners if Leach is recovered now - do wonder if he is coming close to a last chance in England though.

Craig suffered a concussion in the CC vs Surrey, so Jamie may be cover for that. My doubts about Jamie haven’t really changed, as even when he is bowling well this year he is going at 3.4 an over. Anderson goes at 2.80 in Tests and Potts 2.92 in FC games - so I could only pick Jamie in a four man attack with no Leach.

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Post by Jetty Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:08 pm

McCullum said he won't have rotation, no one looks out of form.

Anderson 11 wickets
Potts 10 wickets
Broad 9 wickets

A week off and then after this no Tests till August. Only reason I can think of is Stokes and his knee.


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Post by dummy_half Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:26 pm

No changes to the batsmen in the squad, so it looks like Crawley will get the third match as well, given there are no other opening options in the squad. I guess Brook comes in if Stokes is unfit to play even as a batsman, but otherwise he's making up the numbers as all of the middle order have contributed well at least once so far.

If Stokes is fit to bowl, I reckon an unchanged side, and if not then Leach gives way to an Overton - presumably Craig if he's recovered from concussion, as he seems to be the higher rated of the pair.

Potentially the first twins to play for England, although obviously there have been some for other countries, most notably the Waughs. Can't think of many brothers that have played together for England - have Turran and Surran played in the same Test yet?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:27 pm

Yes suspect Jamie is in to help cover Craig Overton mainly - and maybe give England the choice between either Overton brother for that 4th seamer spot should Stokes be unable to bowl in the 3rd test, and Craig be free of concussion.
Haven't seen any reports or concerns about Anderson's condition post test, so would assume he is ok

Not hugely worried by the covid permeating through the kiwi camp at this point - Williamson should return in time, and they brought a massive touring squad with them (along with the odd kiwi playing in the county game, ala Rachin Ravindra at Durham). Plus we do have the extra gap between tests this time.
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Post by Jetty Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:48 pm

Last time at Headingley

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=2453

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Post by dummy_half Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:03 pm

Jetty wrote:Last time at Headingley

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=2453

Intersting how much the England side has changed (noting obviously Stokes was missing with injury / mental health issues). Only Root, YJB and Jimmy from the last Test, with Craig Overton around the squad - Robinson would likely be in instead of Potts if fit.

Headingley is probably the one Test atch venue in England where I would seriously consider going into the game without a spinner, but I'd likely only do it if the weather leading up to and during the game was a bit grey and damp. Even then, I'd want more variation in the pace attack than England are currently able to muster - someone with absolute pace and/or a lefty would help rather than 4 bowlers of 80-85 mph who get some swing and seam.

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Post by guildfordbat Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:02 pm

dummy_half wrote:No changes to the batsmen in the squad, so it looks like Crawley will get the third match as well, given there are no other opening options in the squad. I guess Brook comes in if Stokes is unfit to play even as a batsman, but otherwise he's making up the numbers as all of the middle order have contributed well at least once so far.

If Stokes is fit to bowl, I reckon an unchanged side, and if not then Leach gives way to an Overton - presumably Craig if he's recovered from concussion, as he seems to be the higher rated of the pair.

Potentially the first twins to play for England, although obviously there have been some for other countries, most notably the Waughs. Can't think of many brothers that have played together for England - have Turran and Surran played  in the same Test yet?

Hi Dummy - no, Tom Curran played his only two Tests a few months before Sam made his Test debut. 

The only brothers to play together for England in my watching time (and no, it doesn't go back to the Grace brothers!) are Adam and the late Ben Hollioake, both on debut against Australia in '97.

Other England Test brothers I recall seeing, albeit they didn't play together, are the late Tony and Ian Greig and Chris and Robin Smith.

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Post by Duty281 Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:01 pm

A moment of history tomorrow as England start their first bilateral series v the Dutch. Early-ish start, too, beginning at 10am UK time. Hot weather, a quick outfield and short boundaries should mean plenty of runs.

Don't know much about the Dutch, but they beat Ireland 2-1 in a series, before losing 3-0 to Afghanistan, New Zealand and the West Indies.

England's possible XI according to Cricinfo: 1 Jason Roy, 2 Phil Salt, 3 Dawid Malan, 4 Jos Buttler (wk), 5 Eoin Morgan (capt), 6 Liam Livingstone, 7 Sam Curran, 8 Moeen Ali, 9 Brydon Carse, 10 Adil Rashid, 11 Reece Topley.

Morgan and Rashid survive from the 2009 meeting where the Dutch defeated England in a T20. Morgan's place currently looks in jeopardy ahead of the 2023 World Cup.

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Post by alfie Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:37 am

Dutch have a good record of upsetting England in limited over contests...I think back to the late Peter Roebuck leading a team including Hussain and Stewart to a defeat in the Netherlands in 1989 - and another team losing there four years later. Plus some t20 upsets...

You wouldn't think this about half- full strength England side would have too much trouble this time though. The absence of Root , Bairstow and Stokes looks to be reasonably well covered ; and if the pace options are also missing one or two injured players , the spinners are all there. Good opportunities for the likes of Salt , Malan , and some of the left arm quicks to advance their claims.

And perhaps a chance for Morgan to get a score or two ?

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Post by Duty281 Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:54 am

England team as expected, except it's Willey not Carse who's in the XI, meaning three left-arm seamers and not a single right-armer.

Dutch won the toss and will field first, that's brave.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:11 am

Snater justifies the bowl first decision - so far anyway - as he gets one to nip back in the second over and Roy, apparently the bowler's cousin (!), plays on.

I had forgotten the name but now I recall Snater. Saw him at the Oval playing for Essex last year. He impressed me then being sharp and generally accurate.

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