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Wilder can't retire. Heavyweight Boxing needs him in a Fury free World.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 03 May 2022, 7:59 pm

Joyce 36..Stinker
Whyte 34..Trialhorse.
Ortiz...160..Stinker
Ruiz jr..33..Slob.
Usyk...Midget..
Joshua..Probably finished
Parker... .Ugh.
Chisora...Let's not go there.

Deontay in a Fury free World is 36 for sure but not out of place on the pretenders list above...Can look amateurish at times granted but undoubtedly exciting to watch and I'd pick him to beat all the above....Yes Usyk showed he can outfox a reluctant Joshua but Wilder is more likely to engage and he punches harder..

Think a comfortable Joshua loses to Wilder...AJ looks unmotivated these days..

Heavyweight Boxing is synergesic when it is hot it filters down..

The post Fury menu looks depressing...Boxing needs Wilder for a couple of years before hopefully an exciting talent comes along..

Another Mike Tyson please.

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Post by Inventing Johnson Klute Tue 03 May 2022, 11:02 pm

Tend to agree Truss   Recent events make me think Wilder could could be the 'man' if Fury does walk away.  Wilder should go all out to fight winner of Joshua v Usyk IMO (if that fight ever happens).

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Post by Jimmy Moz Wed 04 May 2022, 10:10 am

Usyk would beat Wilder. Deontay can punch but he does not have the full set of skills to beat Oleksandr.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 04 May 2022, 10:17 am

Jimmy Moz wrote:Usyk would beat Wilder. Deontay can punch but he does not have the full set of skills to beat Oleksandr.

Holmes was an old man against a cutie smaller Michael Spinks yet he still wobbled him twice... Wilder is a puncher.. Holmes wasn't.

36 minutes is a long time....We are talking about a guy that many thought drew with Chisora..

Yes Usyk can box but he isn't quick....AJ finds it awkward to jump on fighters.. Wilder less so.

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Post by Inventing Johnson Klute Wed 04 May 2022, 10:34 am

Chisora, Bellew and Bredis all got to Usyk at some point in there fights and so it's not like Usyk is some defensive master. Very good all round boxer for sure and he would definitely give Wilder plenty of problems, but you can't say Wilder has little chance here.

Wilder has either KOd or hurt every opponent he has faced and they have nearly all been bigger than Usyk. Wilder has fought some awkward customers to boot and he has always got through at some point, so he has more than a chance against Usyk. I should further add, Wilder has full-on genuine power also. By this, I mean he carries power at the start, middle and end of fights and also when hurt or struggling. So no matter what, Usyk would have to be on it for every minute of every round. Would be a pick em for me, edging more toward Wilder getting the job done at some point.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 04 May 2022, 10:45 am

Not sure at Heavy Usyk is quicker than Deontay either..

Factoring in two losses to Fury of course....But Usyk is giving up four inches in height and I reckon Wilder is quicker than Bruno like AJ....Spinks was a great and froze against a devastating Tyson..

Wilder has any sense it won't be friendly in the build up..

Usyk likes to humanise his foe...like Wlad.


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Post by No name Bertie Wed 04 May 2022, 10:46 am

When talking about age one needs to also factor in when they started into boxing, how many fights they have had and how many gruelling fights they have had (e.g. see below). In my view Deontay Wilder is the best of the rest after Tyson Fury and will knock out all of the above if he connects with the right. However, it is said by several people that Wilder's resume is poor and they say Wilder lacks skills. My view is that he is very skilful in landing that right which has either knocked out or knocked down everyone he has faced professionally.

For Deontay Wilder we have:
Age: 36
Started into boxing: 20
Amateur fights: 35
Professional fights: 45
First time going full distance: fight no. 33
Total fights lasting 9 rounds or greater: Six

AJ:
Age: 32
Started into boxing: 18
Amateur fights: 43
Professional fights: 26
First time going full distance: fight no. 21
Total fights lasting 9 rounds or greater: Six

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Post by No name Bertie Wed 04 May 2022, 10:53 am

Just want to add that Deontay Wilder hits so hard that he sometimes breaks his right hand. With regard Joe Joyce I wonder what would last longer, Joe Joyce's consciousness or Deontay Wilders right hand.

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Post by Mr Bounce Wed 04 May 2022, 1:35 pm

It's an interesting one - Wilder is 37 this year and his last 2 fights have seen him take a pretty substantial beating at the hands of Fury. If he comes back and performs well against a half-decent contender, I think he can build his confidence again and should do well, but it does depend on how much he wants to fight on.

However, age is now against him, he's lost his aura of invincibility and although Truss makes a valid point about Usyk not being a defensive master, he does not get hit cleanly that often and appears to be pretty solid in the whiskers department. A solid right from Deontay would certainly test that!

Wilder would certainly not be as backwards as AJ was against Usyk, but he needs a tuneup fight first, preferably some decent rounds against someone with a good chin. Put him in with fat Andy. The build up would definitely be entertaining!

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Post by Mr Bounce Wed 04 May 2022, 1:48 pm

Plus there are others - Anderson looks a half decent up and coming heavy with hands of concrete and Dubois is supposed to be fighting the unfathomably rated Trevor Bryan soon for the WBA regular title (although that's gone a bit quiet recently). If that comes off, he'd be a so-called "World Champ".

I would not call Joyce a stinker, but he isn't the most exciting. He's beaten everyone he's faced and KO'd most of them, including the highly rated Dubois. I think it would take a very well timed shot with some power to floor him as Dubois couldn't do it. He does the fundamentals very well, just doesn't set the world alight doing it. He a very accomplished boxer whose punches cause accumulative damage rather than instant concussive power. I would not want to be hit by him...

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 04 May 2022, 6:22 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:It's an interesting one - Wilder is 37 this year and his last 2 fights have seen him take a pretty substantial beating at the hands of Fury. If he comes back and performs well against a half-decent contender, I think he can build his confidence again and should do well, but it does depend on how much he wants to fight on.

However, age is now against him, he's lost his aura of invincibility and although Truss makes a valid point about Usyk not being a defensive master, he does not get hit cleanly that often and appears to be pretty solid in the whiskers department. A solid right from Deontay would certainly test that!

Wilder would certainly not be as backwards as AJ was against Usyk, but he needs a tuneup fight first, preferably some decent rounds against someone with a good chin. Put him in with fat Andy. The build up would definitely be entertaining!

190 pound fighters don't take bombs off big heavy hitters when 240 pound Chins get destroyed...

Hagler had a wonderful chin but if Spinks landed his jinx at 175...Hagler is face down..

Size matters.....but don't tell your Wife that..

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Post by Mr Bounce Wed 04 May 2022, 10:56 pm

Usyk was 221 when he fought Joshua. That's closer to 240 than 190. He has never been less than 198 for a fight. He's a smaller heavy, but not that small.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 05 May 2022, 11:12 am

Mr Bounce wrote:Usyk was 221 when he fought Joshua. That's closer to 240 than 190. He has never been less than 198 for a fight. He's a smaller heavy, but not that small.

Spinks was 215 against Tyson..

Not a real Heavy when you bulk up...As someone once said you can't put muscle on your chin..

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Post by Mr Bounce Thu 05 May 2022, 11:25 am

Spinks was terrified against Tyson. Usyk had a prepared game plan against Joshua. If he and Wilder fight (which I doubt), he'll have a plan for Wilder as well. Will it work? Maybe, maybe not. But he'll definitely be better than Spinks was against Tyson.

Wilder is not Tyson.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 05 May 2022, 11:33 am

Mr Bounce wrote:Spinks was terrified against Tyson. Usyk had a prepared game plan against Joshua. If he and Wilder fight (which I doubt), he'll have a plan for Wilder as well. Will it work? Maybe, maybe not. But he'll definitely be better than Spinks was against Tyson.

Wilder is not Tyson.

Spinks was caught by nothing shots off Larry in the 2nd and 14th in their rematch and his legs were in different States...

Maybe Usyk freezes against Wilder...After all there is no 20 stone slob in Ruiz to give him hope in that one.

Who knows.. Get your point bouncy but don't share it..

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Post by 88Chris05 Mon 09 May 2022, 9:45 pm

I agree that he should stick around for a while yet. Fury's combination of size, versatility and resilience made him a nightmare for Wilder, but there's nobody else in the division he should fear.

I'm getting tired of waiting for Joshua-Usyk II, so would love it if Joshua-Wilder could be made instead. Joshua simply has to fight one of Wilder or Fury (and that's looking further away now than it has done in a while) before he's done for the sake of his legacy and, while there wouldn't be any world titles on the line, a comeback against Wilder would be just as big and as much a chance at bigtime revival as a return against Usyk would be.

Said it before, but how much more deserving would the winner of that be of getting another world title shot? A proper crossroads fight with a lot on the line and a high chance of brutality one way or another. Can't see it happening unfortunately but if the Usyk rematch doesn't come off for whatever reason I'd love to see Hearn making a big offer to Wilder.

Suspect a lot of people who picked Joshua before might switch over to Deontay now. Would be close to a 50:50 split amongst fans, I'd imagine.
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Post by Mochyn du Wed 11 May 2022, 3:35 pm

The heavyweight division is a joke anyway. Fury for all the smoke that is blown up him by the likes of the ghastly Piers Morgan has beaten a 40 year old and a wild slugger with little boxing skills about 6 times. People moaned about the Kbros era but it's even worse now. The fact Derek Chisora is still relevant and that Dillian Whyte is a contender shows that.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 11 May 2022, 4:14 pm

Mochyn du wrote:The heavyweight division is a joke anyway.  Fury for all the smoke that is blown up him by the likes of the ghastly Piers Morgan has beaten a 40 year old and a wild slugger with little boxing skills about 6 times.  People moaned about the Kbros era but it's even worse now.  The fact Derek Chisora is still relevant and that Dillian Whyte is a contender shows that.

Corrie Sanders was the only guy that threw regular straight punches at Wlad.....and he destroyed him...Because Wlad mugs you in a straightline...

Got his durable oaf of a brother to sort him out didn't he !!!..

Wilder was better than anything Wlad beat......Wlad Jabbed and mauled smaller slobs untill a schooled heavy that was to big to spoil came along...If Wlad can't smother you he is no good...Fury was taller..


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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 11 May 2022, 4:36 pm

That's a generalisation of what Wlad did in some fights but not all.

Against Pulev for instance he finally started to throw his left hook with some venom, unfortunately his best days were long gone by then. Povetkin was when Wlad beat him a far better heavyweight than Wilder.

Wlad was the best part of 40 when Fury squeaked past him, enough there to suggest a younger version is more than capable of winning

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 11 May 2022, 5:16 pm

Fury did enough to win in second gear...Because Wlad lost his bollox and didn't engage..

Didn't have a clue if he couldn't jab and hold.

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Post by Mochyn du Thu 12 May 2022, 1:28 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:That's a generalisation of what Wlad did in some fights but not all.

Against Pulev for instance he finally started to throw his left hook with some venom, unfortunately his best days were long gone by then. Povetkin was when Wlad beat him a far better heavyweight than Wilder.

Wlad was the best part of 40 when Fury squeaked past him, enough there to suggest a younger version is more than capable of winning

Wlad had it too easy for the most part but he actually did have a great left hook but he barely ever used it.  Against Mercer, against Peter it was lethal but his problem was he didn't need more than the jab and the cross and was too old and set in his ways by the time better competition came along.

Yes a younger version of Wlad beats Fury.  He got spooked in that fight.  As for Wilder he has a punchers chance no more and to quote Fury's 103 wins against against Wilder as some sort of yardstick towards his own greatness is ridiculous.  Wilder is a fine specimen that throws punches, he's not a boxer.  And of course there's the drug issues.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 12 May 2022, 4:18 pm

No evidence for a younger Wlad beating a skillful boxer taller than him..

Wlad can't maul Fury with his style....It was designed for shorter fighters..Anyone with a longer reach or who punched straight like Sanders..and he was garbage..

Fury always beats the stinker.

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Post by Mochyn du Fri 13 May 2022, 11:03 am

I'm not convinced Fury beats a younger Wlad. It's a shame Fury drugged out on the rematch as the first fight stank.

If Fury makes good on his retirement then Wlad currently has the higher status. Being a long reigner is better than one win against a 40 year old plus beating the same crude slugger over and over again.


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Post by kingraf Fri 13 May 2022, 1:57 pm

Tbh, when your whole game is based on range, fighting a guy bigger than you is always going to present match up nightmares. So I'm not sure there's a version of Klitschko I'd bet on beating Fury.

Saying that, Fury was landing like six punches a round against a 40-year old who got knocked out by AJ and lost four rounds to Bryant Freaking Jennings either side of this fight. So who knows
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 13 May 2022, 5:10 pm

Mochyn du wrote:I'm not convinced Fury beats a younger Wlad.  It's a shame Fury drugged out on the rematch as the first fight stank.

If Fury makes good on his retirement then Wlad currently has the higher status.  Being a long reigner is better than one win against a 40 year old plus beating the same crude slugger over and over again.


I agree that Wlad's longevity sees him higher...

If you are going to use Wlad's reign for higher status though...You should show more respect for the Wilder victories....He had a decent length too...(Reign that is Wink )

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