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England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down

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Post by dummy_half Thu 23 Jun 2022, 10:47 am

First topic message reminder :

Must be assuming Southee can't be as ineffective again.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jun 2022, 2:19 pm

Oh dear....

Boult just too good for Pope !

This has all the hallmarks of a massacre...going to go hide behind the furniture...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jun 2022, 2:19 pm

Boult is bloody good ain't he
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jun 2022, 2:25 pm

for the love of god zak don't run out root
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Post by kingraf Fri 24 Jun 2022, 2:30 pm

Zak Crawley is still too tall to open.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jun 2022, 2:30 pm

Duty281 wrote:Leach has 5! clap

329ao. Time for England's reply and quite frankly your guess is as good as mine. 450 wouldn't surprise me, neither would 150.

I'd take 150 at this rate!
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Post by kingraf Fri 24 Jun 2022, 2:36 pm

Can't tell me there isn't space somewhere for Jos Buttler in this Frak of a line up
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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 24 Jun 2022, 2:37 pm

kingraf wrote:Can't tell me there isn't space somewhere for Jos Buttler in this Frak of a line up

What in the top four?

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Post by kingraf Fri 24 Jun 2022, 2:39 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
kingraf wrote:Can't tell me there isn't space somewhere for Jos Buttler in this Frak of a line up

What in the top four?

Couldn't possibly be worse than Pope or Crawley
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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 3:02 pm

Had to pop out for a brief while, it appears England's top order have also popped out.

55/5. Did worry about this. This is the type of pitch that requires discipline and effort, not aggressive cricket. As I said last week, England's new attacking approach will probably yield more failures than successes.

And Wagner gets another. Will require another huge chase to make it 3-0...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jun 2022, 3:05 pm

Foakes is having a stinker so far this game
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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 24 Jun 2022, 3:11 pm

That innings from Stokes was pathetic, you have to earn the right to attack in test cricket as he and Bairstow did at Trent Bridge.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jun 2022, 4:02 pm

I did say this looked like a massacre Wink

Follow on still a way off. Saving comments for the Clear Light of Tomorrow...

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Post by JDizzle Fri 24 Jun 2022, 4:11 pm

I think Vic Marks is right on TMS - Stokes is trying to lead the way like Morgan did post the 2015 WC in that ODI series vs NZ where England were posting 300+ but being bowled out in 45 overs. And they trusted themselves to find the balance eventually

The difference being this isn’t ODI cricket and Stokes is 31 and has played 80 Tests. He knows the correct tempo already.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jun 2022, 4:18 pm

JDizzle wrote:I think Vic Marks is right on TMS - Stokes is trying to lead the way like Morgan did post the 2015 WC in that ODI series vs NZ where England were posting 300+ but being bowled out in 45 overs. And they trusted themselves to find the balance eventually

The difference being this isn’t ODI cricket and Stokes is 31 and has played 80 Tests. He knows the correct tempo already.

I would concur JDizzle - in fact, I think Bairstow/Root have shown the way in this series better, both I would say are being positive without being reckless.
Stokes has been pretty reckless...when we all know he scores quickly enough without being that way! Bizarre knock today.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 4:22 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:That innings from Stokes was pathetic, you have to earn the right to attack in test cricket as he and Bairstow did at Trent Bridge.

Wasn't he attempting a counter assault ???...Ever since I have been in this Country I've seen plenty of Botham smashing the Australians when England were down and out...

To be fair you can't applaud this new aggressive approach and then get on Stokes case when it doesn't work..

Would England be 2-0 under Root ??

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 4:39 pm

Has been easier, though not easy, for Overton and Bairstow in these conditions, further showing the folly of the top order approach, especially as the Kiwis don't have much bowling depth.

124/6. Big deficit of 205 to chip away at.

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Post by VTR Fri 24 Jun 2022, 4:41 pm

Talking of Botham, if this was the mid 90s, Joverton's returns so far would definitely see him anointed as a new one. Genuinely remember Darren Gough being termed "the new Botham"

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jun 2022, 4:44 pm

Duty281 wrote:Has been easier, though not easy, for Overton and Bairstow in these conditions, further showing the folly of the top order approach, especially as the Kiwis don't have much bowling depth.

124/6. Big deficit of 205 to chip away at.

Really only Stokes who was reckless though , was it not ? The rest of them were just not good enough on the day to combat some excellent swing bowling. Boult was terrific , as he's been throughout the Tests.

More footwork faults than foolish shots , I think.

At least these two have just about saved the follow on ...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jun 2022, 4:48 pm

alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Has been easier, though not easy, for Overton and Bairstow in these conditions, further showing the folly of the top order approach, especially as the Kiwis don't have much bowling depth.

124/6. Big deficit of 205 to chip away at.

Really only Stokes who was reckless though , was it not ? The rest of them were just not good enough on the day to combat some excellent swing bowling. Boult was terrific , as he's been throughout the Tests.

More footwork faults than foolish shots , I think.

At least these two have just about saved the follow on ...

Would concur Alfie - don't think any of the top order were reckless, just quite easily outclassed.
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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 4:48 pm

alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Has been easier, though not easy, for Overton and Bairstow in these conditions, further showing the folly of the top order approach, especially as the Kiwis don't have much bowling depth.

124/6. Big deficit of 205 to chip away at.

Really only Stokes who was reckless though , was it not ? The rest of them were just not good enough on the day to combat some excellent swing bowling. Boult was terrific , as he's been throughout the Tests.

More footwork faults than foolish shots , I think.

At least these two have just about saved the follow on ...

Crawley and Pope did play some attacking drives, and Lees was fortunate not to be caught second ball. It was a time for a good old-fashioned block.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 5:02 pm

100 partnership. clap

New Zealand have lost their discipline again.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jun 2022, 5:10 pm

Has been an excellent fighting stand by these two...but still a mountain to climb to get back into the game.

Not sure NZ have lost their mojo so much as the ball has got a lot older. And their pace men have put in a bit of work.

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Post by JDizzle Fri 24 Jun 2022, 5:16 pm

You can take the boy out of Somerset, but you can’t take the lower order runs out of the boy. Just need to get Tim Groenewald out of retirement and in the Test team to get the full Somerset lower order turning 50-6 into 320 every innings.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jun 2022, 5:18 pm

Fifty for Jamie Overton...couldn't have come at a better time !

Getting enthusiastic applause from teammates on the balcony ...

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Post by msp83 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 5:40 pm

Bairstow stepping up yet again. it is surprising how England almost mismanaged his test career into an almost lost case. He was up for a fight in the Ashes, played the innings of his life in the last game, and stepping up and saving the side from a calamity here. The management change couldn't have come at a better time for a player like him. Don't get me wrong, he still is going to get bowled a lot as his technique has limitations. But he's miles better than the 20Something lot often hyped up big time only to show themselves up as 21st Century Ramprakash/Hick...

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Post by msp83 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 5:43 pm

New Zealand's selection mistakes coming back to hurt them, not for the first time in the series. Boult upfront was outstanding, my man Wagner picked up 2 wickets in his very first over... Southee did swing a few but as has been the case throughout the series, hasn't been on his top game. And then beyond them, there has been nothing... And that is not surprising at all. You can't go into a test match with a 3 man attack.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jun 2022, 5:43 pm

As Guildford will attest, despite his often wayward bowling efforts, I’ve oft praised Overton’s ability as a lower order biffer - quite often gets a good 30/40, and is capable. Rode his luck a bit here at times, but a very impressive knock so far
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Post by msp83 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 5:44 pm

And this Jamie lad, does seem a prospect. Has decent pace, and can be handy with the bat down the order. Seems a better bet than his military medium brother.

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Post by msp83 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 5:50 pm

Mitchell and Bracewell have combined only for 6 overs so far. Yes Boult was magical at the start and Wagner assisted him well to start with. However ever since this partnership got going, New Zealand seem to have lost a sense of direction, reviewed when they shouldn't have, didn't review when they should have, missed chances in the field, and just kept on bowling the 3 bowlers even when Wagner has been unusually expensive.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:01 pm

Hundred for Jonny !

What a year he's been having ... Keeps coming in with the side in all sorts of trouble and producing innings like this...

Great stuff ! Be nice if he can keep it going ...

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:02 pm

Bairstow reborn. This has been an insane test series which has appealed to neither logic nor reason. I thought J Overton would be a one test wonder, but his batting may have earned him a reprieve.

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Post by msp83 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:08 pm

England run rate creeping up to 6 an over! Overton closing in on a debut ton. New Zealand seem to have no answers at the moment.
Time for Williamson to turn his arm over and risk that elbow a bit?

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Post by msp83 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:11 pm

Duty281 wrote:Bairstow reborn. This has been an insane test series which has appealed to neither logic nor reason. I thought J Overton would be a one test wonder, but his batting may have earned him a reprieve.
J Overton seemed like he could be a bit wild with the ball, but if the likes of Archer and Wood wouldn't be available for long, he does offer something more than the usual English condition 80 MPH seamer that his brother happens to be. The guy doesn't seem as skilled as Sam Curran with the bat, but he surely can hold one, and give it a good thrashing too. Surely should be around the setup.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:12 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:As Guildford will attest, despite his often wayward bowling efforts, I’ve oft praised Overton’s ability as a lower order biffer - quite often gets a good 30/40, and is capable. Rode his luck a bit here at times, but a very impressive knock so far

He's looked a bit better than a lower order biffer today , I'd say . Some luck early on , yes ; but as the partnership developed he's actually chosen when to strike and when to defend rather well.

Jury still out on his bowling ; but this batting effort probably lifts him up the pecking order of English pace bowling possibles...

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:21 pm

England's first ever 200 partnership for the seventh wicket.

This is the third time in the series NZ have lost control - Root and Foakes in the first test, Stokes and Bairstow in the second, Bairstow and J Overton here.

Lead down to 68.

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Post by JDizzle Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:22 pm

I was a big advocate of Bairstow coming in during the Ashes, as he’s one of few to have an outstanding domestic FC record - averaging about 50. Plus he’d clearly made the effort during the India series to try and tweak his technique to succeed in the red ball game. But he’s surpassed whatever limited expectations I had of him!

JOverton won’t ever cut it at Test level I don’t think. He’s just too loose with the ball for a four man attack. Maybe in the sub continent with some funky batting orders with lots of all rounder she could be used for shock purposes, but I can’t see it otherwise.

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Post by msp83 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:28 pm

Overton does seem too wild for a 4-man attack. But with Stokes bowling, and with Anderson or someone with control around, he is worth investing in. He does have decent pace. Hasn't shown much else as of now, but worth a few more chances at least so long as Archer/Wood/Stone aren't available.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:35 pm

A quite ludicrous partnership between Bairstow and Overton - superb superb work to get England firmly back into this contest after some great new ball bowling by Boult.

Hope Overton can get that century tomorrow morning
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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:37 pm

Advantage still with New Zealand, I think, but I don't really know anymore. An utterly mad day.

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Post by VTR Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:39 pm

I don't know what to say about that. The kind of partnership you'd only see every few years, except the last such one was all of ten days ago. Clearly it will also bring to mind the Trott and Broad partnership, which was now 12 years ago

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:41 pm

Astonishing day of Test Cricket - again.

One of the best new ball spells we've seen from a swing bowler for a while...a crazy collapse : 55/6 in twelve overs for heaven's sake ! And then this outrageous partnership has turned the game on its head in a session...

Lord knows what will happen tomorrow !

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Post by JuliusHMarx Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:46 pm

alfie wrote:I did say this looked like a massacre Wink

Yes, that you did Wink

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jun 2022, 6:52 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
alfie wrote:I did say this looked like a massacre Wink

Yes, that you did Wink

Very observant , Jules. My quotes often manage to cover all eventualities Wink

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 24 Jun 2022, 7:07 pm

Fourth century of the year for Bairstow now.

I still oddly think he's batting too high at five but with his technical issues being more aggressive makes sense. Note to Ben Stokes that aggression is very different to recklessness especially when you have the technique to play properly.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jun 2022, 8:50 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:As Guildford will attest, despite his often wayward bowling efforts, I’ve oft praised Overton’s ability as a lower order biffer - quite often gets a good 30/40, and is capable. Rode his luck a bit here at times, but a very impressive knock so far

Happy to back you up there, Olly! I did also mention yesterday about his batting that if he connects, it travels! See from cricinfo that he hit two sixes along with plenty of boundaries.

I would hope - and don’t think it’s too unrealistic - that we can go on to get a lead from here. Whilst either JOve or Jonny are at the crease, the runs should keep coming.

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Post by James100 Fri 24 Jun 2022, 10:59 pm

msp83 wrote:Overton does seem too wild for a 4-man attack. But with Stokes bowling, and with Anderson or someone with control around, he is worth investing in. He does have decent pace. Hasn't shown much else as of now, but worth a few more chances at least so long as Archer/Wood/Stone aren't available.

He does swing the ball more than a lot of bowlers of his pace

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Post by alfie Sat 25 Jun 2022, 5:38 am

Dust settled and caught up on sleep...what to make of yesterday ?

Whatever else , an extremely entertaining day of Test Cricket : I think they have finished the day some 11 overs short of the quota (some technical issues perhaps partially excusing this) ; but I don't think too many spectators will have left the ground feeling short-changed.

Ebbs and flows : NZ a bit lucky early with dropped catches , and looked to be heading for a big total until Mitchell lost his head apparently from hunger pangs and holed out on the stroke of lunch : Leach finishing it with his five immediately after only unleashed Boult to terrorise the England top order : what an opening spell of swing bowling Shocked
At 55/6 England looked to be heading for the follow on ...and then In Came J Overton Smile

Sliding Doors : We saw yesterday what a difference a review or two can make to an innings - not to mention dropped chances. Same again the other way around...if NZ had reviewed against Overton at the right time where would this match be now ? And on another day Jonny's under-edged boundary might have clipped his stumps...or Wagner might have held a tricky c&b.  But that's cricket...

Attack at all Costs : England talked the talk ; they are walking - or galloping , rather - so far , in spite of the inevitable spills.  Can it last ? Can it succeed often enough ? Stay tuned...going to be fun to watch anyway.

Fails and triumphs : NZ will perhaps be regretting going in bowler-light - although at one stage it didn't seem to matter. Bracewell was exposed ; and Southee (apart from the good piece of bowling to grab the vital wicket of Root - who is human after all ! ) looked a bit tired. Mitchell and Boult have been fantastic all series and nothing has changed there.
England top three , despite some good efforts last match , still look a bit fragile . Terrific bowling from Boult ; but the footwork of both Lees and Pope needs sharpening ; and Crawley's bat angled like that is asking for trouble. Won't shoot them for failing here ; but the batting coach might have some videos to study. Stokes set out to counter attack which is fair enough : but surely just a little more respect for the bowling could be slipped in to the game plan Ben ? Bairstow - again - and debutant Overton were just bloody brilliant.

Where stands the contest ? : Duty says NZ just ahead : well they are , technically - still by 65 runs . If batting last is difficult then England will want a lead - but is Bracewell going to be able to exploit late match spin ? Will he dare bowl ? And can their pace trio keep backing up... Guess a lot depends on whether England's overnight heroes and the tail can take advantage of the current position (old ball , long way to a new one ; and a presumably chastened NZ attack) or whether a new day will bring a quick fold . But either way , the third innings may be crucial once again.

How's the weather forecast ? Hope it stays fair as this match deserves more good days for everyone to enjoy , whatever the result thumbsup

alfie

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Post by alfie Sat 25 Jun 2022, 5:46 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:As Guildford will attest, despite his often wayward bowling efforts, I’ve oft praised Overton’s ability as a lower order biffer - quite often gets a good 30/40, and is capable. Rode his luck a bit here at times, but a very impressive knock so far

Happy to back you up there, Olly! I did also mention yesterday about his batting that if he connects, it travels! See from cricinfo that he hit two sixes along with plenty of boundaries.

I would hope - and don’t think it’s too unrealistic - that we can go on to get a lead from here. Whilst either JOve or Jonny are at the crease, the runs should keep coming.

Hey you two Surrey chaps : would you agree that Overton has actually exceeded your expectations with the bat here ? First game , in at a perilous stage : would it be fair to say this surpasses anything he's done in the CC so far ?

I certainly note what you both warned about his sometimes wayward bowling (and I did look at his CC bowling figures from last year !) so agree his ongoing value as a pace option remains unclear : but as others have noted he does possess both pace and swing so will be very interested to see what he can do in the second innings...hopefully with a century under his belt to add confidence ?

By the way , guildford : perhaps you had better get back from your Grecian Odyssey before Surrey's Blast campaign derails Smile

alfie

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Post by guildfordbat Sat 25 Jun 2022, 6:34 am

Alfie - ha!
JOverton hit about 90 earlier this season at a run a ball (or thereabouts) in a CC match against Kent at Beckenham. That was where we made the highest ever innings score (approaching 700) without anyone scoring a century. Stewart and Batty got stick from Surrey supporters for not declaring earlier but not me with my “make the opposition suffer and wonder” mantra.
He’s also batted very effectively in the Blast going up the order to 5 or 6 and turning at least one game in Surrey’s favour.
All in all, I am surprised by his score yesterday but not amazed. He’s the sort of player who, if he stays in, will get runs. He definitely won’t be poking around for 75 minutes to end with 5 not out!
Partly because he can do something unexpected and partly because I sensed he wasn’t (too) highly rated here, I went for him as an early first choice in Joey’s comp. Mind you and tbh, I was hoping for a Starc like expensive threefer and a 30 odd!

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Post by guildfordbat Sat 25 Jun 2022, 6:40 am

Btw, has any proper explanation been given for Stokes not bowling? Did he show any signs of injury when batting? Thanks.

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