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England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down

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Post by dummy_half Thu 23 Jun 2022, 10:47 am

First topic message reminder :

Must be assuming Southee can't be as ineffective again.

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Post by guildfordbat Sun 17 Jul 2022, 12:14 pm

Morning all - if you'll forgive me taking a leaf out of KP-f's book of backdated predictions, I did see Roy's dismissal coming when it did from Hardik. Three sound hits earlier the same over but all finding a fielder with no runs and his frustration being shown over his face and growing each ball. He just seemed in the wrong head space with it being likely a mistake was coming and so it proved.

Roy's always been a natural hitter - I saw him wallop 180 odd in a second eleven Championship match at the Guildford ground a dozen years ago and was very taken with him - but has never been the most thoughtful of batsmen. That's the part of his game that has failed to develop adequately. He was going very nicely today with 41 to his name and more than 40 overs left when Hardik bugged him and he threw it away when he had a great chance to properly go on.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 17 Jul 2022, 12:22 pm

Interesting to see Mo pushed ahead of Livingstone in the situation. Maybe due to Mo's hitting of spin? India's plan soon will surely be to use their spinners to squeeze the run rate  and build on the scoreboard pressure.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 17 Jul 2022, 12:22 pm

The 3rd game.folloiwng the same script to this  point as the first two

Unlike second game India should not take foot off.....don't bowl Jadeja for example if you don't need to

Even 200 will be a handful to chase ...pitch has seam movement and bounce off a length 

I said it and we all saw it ...India is playing with 5 guys who can't be counted upon to score even 12 a piece 

As I write it's a difficult pitch to drive on the rise 

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Post by king_carlos Sun 17 Jul 2022, 12:25 pm

Whilst I wish England were dealing with him better it's great to see Hardik bowling as well. He's such a talent, it's a huge shame when injury holds him back from bowling. Genuine all-rounders that can get in sides for their batting and bowling are incredibly rare. More often than not bowlers who can hit or batters who can roll their arm over get tagged as all-rounders when they really aren't. Hardik is a very rare genuine all-rounder when fully fit though. Those players are wonderful to watch.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 17 Jul 2022, 12:32 pm

king_carlos wrote:Whilst I wish England were dealing with him better it's great to see Hardik bowling as well. He's such a talent, it's a huge shame when injury holds him back from bowling. Genuine all-rounders that can get in sides for their batting and bowling are incredibly rare. More often than not bowlers who can hit or batters who can roll their arm over get tagged as all-rounders when they really aren't. Hardik is a very rare genuine all-rounder when fully fit though. Those players are wonderful to watch.
Pandya is the increasing breed of players who are world class in their discipline only in T20s or for a limited role in a 50 over game
For example Pandya can bowl 4 overs at pace and about 6 to 8 overs max
Put him in a test match and he will break down in no time or reduced to a trundler with ball

Harshal Patel, Natrajan, Jordan and many others are only 4 to 8 overs world class types
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Post by alfie Sun 17 Jul 2022, 1:17 pm

Went away for a while and returned to see England have apparently done what they usually imply they don't want to do : dial it back and play cautiously for a while when the bowlers are on top. And just started to cut loose again now...all seems eminently sensible !

Makes sense also to flip Moeen ahead of Livingstone in the circumstances as he's a more adaptable player. Livingstone only seems to have one method ...and that will surely be more likely to work in the later overs.

KP_fan getting nervous about the potential chase target already ? What is a "good" score on this - something similar to the second game perhaps ? But can they get there as Jadeja has done for Moeen !

23 overs left but half the team out...


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Post by alfie Sun 17 Jul 2022, 1:40 pm

A more than usually restrained fifty for Buttler...but plenty of time left for him to go harder later on. Getting banged on the head a couple of times doesn't seem to have done him too much harm Smile

England will hope at least one of these two can bat into the last few overs. I don't think they'll need 300 today ; but won't want to get bowled out inside the fifty overs and leave runs behind.

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Post by alfie Sun 17 Jul 2022, 1:45 pm

Remarkable figures for Pandya...four overs 2/2. And he's back now...

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Post by KP_fan Sun 17 Jul 2022, 1:51 pm

alfie wrote:
KP_fan getting nervous about the potential chase target already ?  What is a "good" score on this - something similar to the second game perhaps ? But can they get there as Jadeja has done for Moeen !


Ind's chance of winning IMO is no more than 30% now.....bookies still make Ind the marginal favorite over Eng

250 will be eunf for Eng to win , I think
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Post by alfie Sun 17 Jul 2022, 2:02 pm

Pandya had to cop some tap from Livingstone...but then he's bagged both of them with the aid of some great outfield catching by Jadeja clap

Suddenly England's chances of getting 250 have fallen dramatically. 200 up ; but basically all up to Willey again...

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Post by KP_fan Sun 17 Jul 2022, 2:02 pm

Livingstone is who I would call a Bits & Pieces player.....poor man's Maxwell
This category is more "digestible" in T20s....but Eng probably can fit in one in 50 over 11 also

Ind needs to not let the bowlers score with Bat......but regardless Eng will have plenty
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Post by alfie Sun 17 Jul 2022, 2:30 pm

Willey and Overton sneaking the score up...244/7 After 43. Indian seamers losing a bit of their discipline - some unnecessary free hits and wides not what was wanted in this situation...and fielding errors not helping either.

Going to be over 250 then : but I reckon India have the batting strength to chase as long as they don't lose too many early. Jadeja at seven seems deep enough to me.

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Post by alfie Sun 17 Jul 2022, 2:33 pm

And Willey holes out to long off so it's 247/8. India needed that.

Only the 44th so probably not going to bat the overs out again...most unusual for three successive ODIs.

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Post by alfie Sun 17 Jul 2022, 2:44 pm

All out for 259... Chahal wraps it up. Useful knock from Overton but I'm not sure that's enough. Four overs left unused. Might be what comes back to bite England.

Early overs key but I'd have India favourites at the interval.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 17 Jul 2022, 2:44 pm

a dozen more than last game....and to bowl Eng out 3 times in a row is no small feat
BUT...plenty for Eng I think
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Post by guildfordbat Sun 17 Jul 2022, 3:15 pm

alfie wrote:All out for 259... Chahal wraps it up. Useful knock from Overton but I'm not sure that's enough. Four overs left unused. Might be what comes back to bite England.

Early overs key but I'd have India favourites at the interval.

India definitely my favourites. Almost regardless of the total, England squandering more than 4 overs is poor play and a boost to the visitors.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 17 Jul 2022, 3:51 pm

New Game, same script as last game
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Post by KP_fan Sun 17 Jul 2022, 6:21 pm

with even 25 runs left you felt that if Eng gets one of Pant or Jadeja, the rest could still fall to a defeat.
such is the fragility of India's lower order

We won but a brilliant inning that should have anchored a 330 chase barely got us a 250+

Pant when he is set and going, pulls perfectly ....and given his short height , when in zone he starts converting length balls into as if they are short and starts pulling them....unstoppable.

His brilliance should not take selectors sight away from the glaring weakness in batting

1. Out Kohli for good
2. and one of the bowlers aught to be Bhuvi who can hold the bat and get you 25 odd

and when Bhuvi cannot play.....in should be Shardul or when fit Depak Chahar
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Post by alfie Sun 17 Jul 2022, 6:26 pm

Comfortable for India in the end...Pant finishing in style thumbsup

Didn't see all of that but I have to question why Topley ended up with three overs unused ? Might not have made a difference but surely you have to use your main weapon rather than keep him up your sleeve for an end game situation that may never arise.

India deserved series winner. Reckon England under their new leadership team have to do a bit of thinking because they've made a fair few mistakes in these games. You can complain about absent bowlers ; but it's the batting failings (especially the not-very-smart thrown away wickets ) that really cost them.

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Post by VTR Sun 17 Jul 2022, 7:41 pm

Yes, England have a lot of room for improvement, but it's nothing to panic about. The top 7 more or less had the entire series off and it was still fairly close. In particular to see Joe Root fail completely 3 matches in a row is unheard of these days

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 17 Jul 2022, 7:52 pm

Eh not going to worry too much - about as bad/out of form I've seen England's main white ball batters in some time, and as VTR said, they still gave a good run at the series.

Do think Roy is in need of a good rest of the white ball summer, else his place will be on real shaky ground. Has gone through poor patches like this before and come out the other side, so would always err on giving him one game too many...but he hasn't torn it up for Surrey either this summer. Plenty of young talent around for one of those opening births
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Post by JDizzle Sun 17 Jul 2022, 8:15 pm

England (as far as I can see) have only played 24 ODIs since the 2019 WC final. To put that into context, they’ve played 42 Tests in that time period.

From 1st Jan 2015 to the WC final, it was 110 ODIs vs 58 Tests. As talented as this batting line up is, even they can’t be expected to just pick up a bat and hit their ODI tempo perfectly.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 17 Jul 2022, 8:22 pm

alfie wrote:   Reckon England under their new leadership team have to do a bit of thinking because they've made a fair few mistakes in these games. You can complain about absent bowlers ; but it's the batting failings (especially the not-very-smart thrown away wickets ) that really cost them.

On Eng....
Their batting did not click...because to me they seemed to play the "template"...of keep going  at the opposition
Instead of playing the conditions and respecting the quality of bowling, under the conditions. There was appreciable seam and bounce in the pitches....especially bounce, that made hitting on the up & hacking across the line very difficult.
Those are the strokes that majority of English batsmen fell to....Root though got some beauties.

I wonder why Topley is not considered for test matches....he could be a modern day Bruce Ried.
When there is less seam assistance in the pitches Eng will need an express pacer.
Moeen is indispensable as he brings so muhc balance......and Livingstone will find it hard to hold his place.
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Post by Duty281 Sun 17 Jul 2022, 10:02 pm

I'm not overly concerned, but winning is a habit and the England ODI team just aren't in that habit at the minute. England have lost three of their last six ODI series; in the two year run up to the 2019 World Cup, England played nine ODI series and won eight (drawing the other to the West Indies; and there was a one-off loss to Scotland).

There's a lot of upheaval around the England ODI team, coaching and captaincy changes, plus bowler injuries, and they're not quite settled as a unit. Good thing the World Cup, originally scheduled for early 2023, is being played in late 2023!

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Post by alfie Mon 18 Jul 2022, 7:59 am

I am not in any sort of panic about the less than good results for the home team in these white ball games : but I do think there are some concerns that need to be dealt with.

Can't do much about the bowling with all the missing friends...though the most important - Rashid - will thankfully be back now. At least Topley has taken his opportunity and now must be inked in for the WC t20 - and I suspect also next year's 50 over squad. Suspect Potts will get his shot this week against SA - and by the time that event comes around the pace options should be better sorted so not too bothered about that side of things.

Batting , though : as YTR says , Root 0-11-0 isn't likely to happen too often ; and it may well be that he , and also YJB and Stokes , were still somewhat "recovering" after those dramatic successes in the Test arena and weren't quite as switched on as they might have been. Bit more concerned about Roy who did at least get some runs in this latest game but hasn't really done anything notable for quite a while. Would really hope he fires against SA - or the case for giving Salt a run in the side will really start to mount.
(To be honest , I would have been happy to let Bairstow and Root sit these games out to refresh after the Tests and give Brook and Salt a few games ; but clearly England wanted to get as close as possible to their preferred XI)
The middle order is still adjusting to no Morgan : Buttler hasn't had a great time of late but he will doubtless be back in regular runs soon enough ; and Moeen balances the side nicely : but Livingstone I think needs to better assess when to go ballistic and when to be a bit more selective if he is going to fill the role at six. Unless/until Woakes is back the batting is always likely to be a bit iffy from 8-11 so important that top seven does the job. Seems to me they were a bit too used to making hay on flat pitches and didn't adjust to likelier than usual tracks and early collapses as well as they should. Suppose neither did India , really : if Pant had been stumped yesterday the result would probably have been reversed. He didn't give them another chance.

As I say : no panic. But perhaps a little thought about when to adopt plan B - or at least plan A2...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:44 am

I would say my only real concern at this point is the fact there was no Rashid and Parkinson still didn't get a game. This is not a good sign for his future prospects in the white ball setup. Honestly, if they don't rate him enough to play...they need to try and move onto the next guy before we reach a point where Adil retires and we've got nobody lined up with any sort of experience in the setup. (Or heaven forbid, Rashid gets injured ahead of one of the upcoming World Cups and we're truly stuffed)
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Post by alfie Mon 18 Jul 2022, 9:49 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I would say my only real concern at this point is the fact there was no Rashid and Parkinson still didn't get a game. This is not a good sign for his future prospects in the white ball setup. Honestly, if they don't rate him enough to play...they need to try and move onto the next guy before we reach a point where Adil retires and we've got nobody lined up with any sort of experience in the setup. (Or heaven forbid, Rashid gets injured ahead of one of the upcoming World Cups and we're truly stuffed)

Don't even think it , Olly !

Yeah I would like to see Parkinson given a go. Not altogether confident he will be the answer - but won't find out unless he is tried in combat. And who exactly is "the next guy" anyway ?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 18 Jul 2022, 10:11 am

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I would say my only real concern at this point is the fact there was no Rashid and Parkinson still didn't get a game. This is not a good sign for his future prospects in the white ball setup. Honestly, if they don't rate him enough to play...they need to try and move onto the next guy before we reach a point where Adil retires and we've got nobody lined up with any sort of experience in the setup. (Or heaven forbid, Rashid gets injured ahead of one of the upcoming World Cups and we're truly stuffed)

Don't even think it , Olly !

Yeah I would like to see Parkinson given a go. Not altogether  confident he will be the answer  - but won't find out unless he is tried in combat.  And who exactly is "the next guy" anyway ?

Well I guess this is the issue...the "next guy" is Parkinson - but it's just becoming more and more obvious they don't rate him at all.

I guess you have two factions after that...Rehan Ahmed/Jake Lintott types of "wildcards" who are pretty unproven, but exciting talents. Then you have the kind of stalwart good county performers like Dawson/Briggs, who probably aren't long term solutions but could maybe do a job for a bit. JDizzle might have a name or two I am missing mind (and I should note, Ahmed/Lintott have barely played a List A game, going more off t20 form)
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Post by alfie Mon 18 Jul 2022, 10:24 am

Yes I did like what I saw of Rehan Ahmed in that under 19 WC. Might be a bit early for him though ? Big step up...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 18 Jul 2022, 12:31 pm

Ooo eck - Stokes announces that Tuesday's ODI against South Africa will be his final ODI game, he's retiring from the format to focus on test captaincy and T20s if selected.

Didn't see that coming - but makes some sense I guess. Yet more upheaval for the one day side though...
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Post by JDizzle Mon 18 Jul 2022, 12:34 pm

Stokes retires from ODIs. I did not see that coming.

I know he’s had his injury problems and had his time away from the game, but still a shock. If it prolongs his Test career, then I am all for it though.

Interesting to see which way Eng go in replacing him - convert an opening batting basher (Salt, Banton, Smeed) or pick more of an anchor/conventional middle order player (Duckett, Hain). Stokes was definitely more of an anchor during the WC run.

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Post by James100 Mon 18 Jul 2022, 12:41 pm

I'd guess Billings back in - he can anchor or accelerate, and he's strong against spin which is good as Buttler and Livingstone both prefer pace

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Post by Duty281 Mon 18 Jul 2022, 12:41 pm

That's disappointing news, but entirely understandable because the demands of a three format international cricketer are just far too much, especially when he's the captain in one of those formats!

Will be remembered as an England ODI legend for that innings in the World Cup final, where he went on to the end and dragged England to World Cup glory from a position that was almost lost.

Leaves a hole in the top seven going forward - Roy, Bairstow, Root, ?, Buttler, Livingstone, Ali, but England have the strength in depth to fill the gap. I suppose Malan is the most likely, but Salt, Billings and even Banton could be contenders. They'll miss some bowling overs from Stokes as well, but I doubt they'll want to weaken the top order to go with an all-rounder like Gregory.

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Post by JDizzle Mon 18 Jul 2022, 12:58 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I would say my only real concern at this point is the fact there was no Rashid and Parkinson still didn't get a game. This is not a good sign for his future prospects in the white ball setup. Honestly, if they don't rate him enough to play...they need to try and move onto the next guy before we reach a point where Adil retires and we've got nobody lined up with any sort of experience in the setup. (Or heaven forbid, Rashid gets injured ahead of one of the upcoming World Cups and we're truly stuffed)

Don't even think it , Olly !

Yeah I would like to see Parkinson given a go. Not altogether  confident he will be the answer  - but won't find out unless he is tried in combat.  And who exactly is "the next guy" anyway ?

Well I guess this is the issue...the "next guy" is Parkinson - but it's just becoming more and more obvious they don't rate him at all.

I guess you have two factions after that...Rehan Ahmed/Jake Lintott types of "wildcards" who are pretty unproven, but exciting talents. Then you have the kind of stalwart good county performers like Dawson/Briggs, who probably aren't long term solutions but could maybe do a job for a bit. JDizzle might have a name or two I am missing mind (and I should note, Ahmed/Lintott have barely played a List A game, going more off t20 form)

Think you have it covered! The cupboard is pretty bare for wrist spinners - when it isn’t it in this country! I liked the looks of Calvin Harrison in the 100 last year, but he had a poor Blast and again has no List A experience.

Rashid’s job is pretty exclusively to take wickets and almost damn the runs in the middle overs. Briggs or Dawson may keep it tight, but will just mean England’s death bowling, outside of a fully fit Jofra, would get slaughtered. You need to turn it both ways or have a bit of mystery to operate that Rashid role so a conventional finger spinner would struggle. I did note Benny Howell took 3 in the middle vs SA in the middle overs for the Lions last week - that is your bolter I think.

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Post by JDizzle Mon 18 Jul 2022, 1:00 pm

JDizzle wrote:Stokes retires from ODIs. I did not see that coming.

I know he’s had his injury problems and had his time away from the game, but still a shock. If it prolongs his Test career, then I am all for it though.

Interesting to see which way Eng go in replacing him - convert an opening batting basher (Salt, Banton, Smeed) or pick more of an anchor/conventional middle order player (Duckett, Hain). Stokes was definitely more of an anchor during the WC run.

Hate myself that I didn’t mention the man who is the current holder of the ODI WC, the Hundred and T20 Blast - and whose last ODI innings was a match winning 100. It’s your time James Vince!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 18 Jul 2022, 1:05 pm

JDizzle wrote:Stokes retires from ODIs. I did not see that coming.

I know he’s had his injury problems and had his time away from the game, but still a shock. If it prolongs his Test career, then I am all for it though.

Interesting to see which way Eng go in replacing him - convert an opening batting basher (Salt, Banton, Smeed) or pick more of an anchor/conventional middle order player (Duckett, Hain). Stokes was definitely more of an anchor during the WC run.

More interestingly for me, this would leave Moeen as the only left handed bat in the top 7, with Morgan/Stokes both retiring. I know matchups aren't everything, and they clearly won't be looking exclusively for a leftie...but you have to wonder if it came down to two guys similarly rated...if adding a leftie might be the preferred option.

Also agree with Duty - entirely understandable, and interesting Stokes in his statement says "three formats is unsustainable right now". You have to wonder when the tipping point is coming for cricket board/administrators with the ridiculous schedules...
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Post by KP_fan Mon 18 Jul 2022, 1:22 pm

Stokes retires...sad to see the superhero of 2019 go, when still in his prime.

But given that Franchisee cricket is lucrative & everyone needs to encash their prime for financial security & family
And Test cricket the real cricket where he has to bat & bowl & captain, there is a degree of inevitability about his decision.

Won't be surprised if he returns to play in the 50 over world cup
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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Jul 2022, 2:23 pm

A real shame to see Stokes retire but completely understandable. There is simply too much cricket. His part in that 2019 CWC win will live in my memory as long as I have them. I watched that final on a tablet propped up in the kitchen of the restaurant I'd just helped open having rebuilt the kitchen myself with friends. It was our first week open, very sleep deprived, yet an incredibly vivid memory of the winning moment.

More interesting question is balancing the bowling. England like that 6th bowling option. Maybe Root and Livingstone can do it for the next World Cup in India?

On the rightie vs leftie point that Olly fairly raises I'd guess that Malan might come into the equation in the short term now? His playing of spin must be a concern in certain conditions though.

1.Roy
2.Bairstow
3.Root
4.Malan
5.Livingstone
6.Buttler (wk)
7.Moeen
8.Woakes
9.Archer
10.Rashid
11.Wood

Could Alex Hales be looked at again with two batting spots opening up? Full power at 1/2/3 with Root coming in at 4 to lessen the blow of losing Morgan and Stokes management of the middle of overs when they were at their peak form?

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Post by VTR Mon 18 Jul 2022, 2:38 pm

What's that, another excuse to watch some 2019 highlights, well go on then if you must!

Really don't mind and fully understand this decision. I don't really expect England to win the next World Cup anyway. Felt like 2019 everything came together, I think next one they will do well but come up short. Also feel Stokes isn't quite the ODI player from 2019 anyway and seems one of the more replaceable at the moment, given his bowling rarely has an impact or even used that often in the shorter forms

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Post by alfie Mon 18 Jul 2022, 2:47 pm

Well now - I honestly didn't expect that , at least not yet. I had thought it would be a good idea for Ben to give away the t20 format but not the fifty over stuff as well ; but I guess he knows what is best for him - and England.
(As an aside I would actually prefer that all England players were kept for just two of the three types of the game , with all the cricket they are called on for these days. I acknowledge that might be tricky to work ; and would probably require adjustments from time to time ; but think it would be better all round in the long run)

So I am supportive of his decision. And to be honest I don't think he was as important in t20 as the other formats so can readily be replaced. They will miss him in the fifty over WC though ! They will have a sixth bowler option as long as Livingstone has a spot ; but he will still leave a hole in the batting.

And now I see that I misread it and he will continue in t20 so just the 50 over stuff he's leaving.... Hmm. Fulfils my "two formats only " plan ; but not the two I'd have gone for ! Guess it is good they will have him in Australia ; but wonder whether the two extremes split is sustainable ? We will see...


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Post by JDizzle Mon 18 Jul 2022, 4:15 pm

Speaking on powerful ODI batting line ups, England women are 214-1 off 31 vs SA. Could they be eyeing up their own first 400+ score?

Edit - just noticed Sciver isn’t playing. Shame, would have been well on with her still to come.

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Post by alfie Mon 18 Jul 2022, 5:18 pm

king_carlos wrote:A real shame to see Stokes retire but completely understandable. There is simply too much cricket. His part in that 2019 CWC win will live in my memory as long as I have them. I watched that final on a tablet propped up in the kitchen of the restaurant I'd just helped open having rebuilt the kitchen myself with friends. It was our first week open, very sleep deprived, yet an incredibly vivid memory of the winning moment.

More interesting question is balancing the bowling. England like that 6th bowling option. Maybe Root and Livingstone can do it for the next World Cup in India?

On the rightie vs leftie point that Olly fairly raises I'd guess that Malan might come into the equation in the short term now? His playing of spin must be a concern in certain conditions though.

1.Roy
2.Bairstow
3.Root
4.Malan
5.Livingstone
6.Buttler (wk)
7.Moeen
8.Woakes
9.Archer
10.Rashid
11.Wood

Could Alex Hales be looked at again with two batting spots opening up? Full power at 1/2/3 with Root coming in at 4 to lessen the blow of losing Morgan and Stokes management of the middle of overs when they were at their peak form?

Harry Brook must be a chance , no ?

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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Jul 2022, 5:53 pm

alfie wrote:
king_carlos wrote:A real shame to see Stokes retire but completely understandable. There is simply too much cricket. His part in that 2019 CWC win will live in my memory as long as I have them. I watched that final on a tablet propped up in the kitchen of the restaurant I'd just helped open having rebuilt the kitchen myself with friends. It was our first week open, very sleep deprived, yet an incredibly vivid memory of the winning moment.

More interesting question is balancing the bowling. England like that 6th bowling option. Maybe Root and Livingstone can do it for the next World Cup in India?

On the rightie vs leftie point that Olly fairly raises I'd guess that Malan might come into the equation in the short term now? His playing of spin must be a concern in certain conditions though.

1.Roy
2.Bairstow
3.Root
4.Malan
5.Livingstone
6.Buttler (wk)
7.Moeen
8.Woakes
9.Archer
10.Rashid
11.Wood

Could Alex Hales be looked at again with two batting spots opening up? Full power at 1/2/3 with Root coming in at 4 to lessen the blow of losing Morgan and Stokes management of the middle of overs when they were at their peak form?

Harry Brook must be a chance , no ?
As a raw talent from ball striking perspective he could certainly get there but is that what England need replacing Stokes AND Morgan? They have hitters up top, Livingstone presumably in the middle, Buttler at 6, with Stokes retiring I'd presume fitting Mo in becomes more necessary.

Salt must be another one with a chance for instance but is another hitter. Hales could hypothetically return (to be honest I'm not sure he's quite the same player he was at his peak now) but is another top order hitter. Smeed is yet another. Even Crawley I think could be a fantastic ODI batter but is in that same bracket.

Would someone such as Hain or Billings to bat alongside Root in the middle when needed be the better option?

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Post by msp83 Mon 18 Jul 2022, 6:00 pm

The first thing I thought when reading about Stokes' announcement was, will they force him out of T-20Is too? Thankfully, England are not in the Flower Dictatorship, and clowns like Paul Downton aren't around to take those calls. Stokes can thank Kevin Pietersen for that. He had seen this scenario coming, well ahead of the times when this is treated as rather normal.
Stokes surely has his name among the legends of England's ODI game, with that one performance in that 1 single game, the most important ODI that England has played yet. A shame to see him go, particularly at a juncture when the ODI game is struggling for its very existence, but very much understandable, particularly as he has to stay entirely focused on the test side... Would he be limiting his T-20 appearances to the leagues after the WC? won't be surprised if he goes that way...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 19 Jul 2022, 8:39 am

king_carlos wrote:A real shame to see Stokes retire but completely understandable. There is simply too much cricket. His part in that 2019 CWC win will live in my memory as long as I have them. I watched that final on a tablet propped up in the kitchen of the restaurant I'd just helped open having rebuilt the kitchen myself with friends. It was our first week open, very sleep deprived, yet an incredibly vivid memory of the winning moment.

More interesting question is balancing the bowling. England like that 6th bowling option. Maybe Root and Livingstone can do it for the next World Cup in India?

On the rightie vs leftie point that Olly fairly raises I'd guess that Malan might come into the equation in the short term now? His playing of spin must be a concern in certain conditions though.

1.Roy
2.Bairstow
3.Root
4.Malan
5.Livingstone
6.Buttler (wk)
7.Moeen
8.Woakes
9.Archer
10.Rashid
11.Wood

Could Alex Hales be looked at again with two batting spots opening up? Full power at 1/2/3 with Root coming in at 4 to lessen the blow of losing Morgan and Stokes management of the middle of overs when they were at their peak form?

Don't see Hales as an option these days - he's way beyond his peak now imo, not picking up franchise deals like he used too, and even if he was in his peak, I think he is a much better T20 player than ODI player. Also hasn't played a List A game for Notts since a couple of random ones in May 2019 (is he actually retired from them?).

There is part of me that wonders if Sam Curran can continue his good white ball batting for Surrey, he might be an outside shout to come in to the top 6. Admittedly he'd need to improve, but I wouldn't be shocked if that is an option they have in their minds...
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Post by alfie Tue 19 Jul 2022, 9:32 am

I know a lot of people have said for years that Sam C might end up more a batsman who bowls : but I'd have thought he is still a way off a realistic top six role at the top level ? Even if he were to crack that role , would he not be more likely to replace Livingstone or Moeen at six rather than the number four spot ?

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Post by Duty281 Tue 19 Jul 2022, 1:19 pm

Looks like England will be chasing a few hundred today.

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Post by alfie Tue 19 Jul 2022, 1:46 pm

Yeah looks a good pitch for setting a score - and SA set off briskly : Potts going round the park in his first ODI.

But Sam got the very important wicket of De Kock so it's a moderate 54/1 off ten. In this weather , I fancy we will see a lot of spin bowled today !

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 19 Jul 2022, 1:47 pm

Mark Wood on TMS confirming he is out for the rest of the summer - had his elbow flare up after playing a club game at the weekend, now aiming to be back for the World T20
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Post by alfie Tue 19 Jul 2022, 1:55 pm

I fear we won't see Wood back in time for the WC. Notions of Archer/Wood in Australia just seem to be pipe dreams...

Topley , Gleeson , someone else + spinners and Stokes , I reckon.

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