Dragons RFC - new name, new season: 2022/23

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New name, bit of a rebrand…..but same old Dragons? Hopefully not!

Player movements:

Players In:

Bradley Roberts from Ireland Ulster
JJ Hanrahan from France Clermont
Rhodri Jones from Wales Ospreys
Sean Lonsdale from England Exeter Chiefs
Max Clark from England Bath
George Nott from England London Irish
Sio Tomkinson from New Zealand Highlanders
Angus O'Brien from Wales Scarlets
Lewis Jones from Wales Cardiff
Rob Evans from Wales Scarlets


Players Out:

Taylor Davies returned to Wales Scarlets
Dan Babos released
Mesake Doge released
Tom Griffiths released
Jordan Olowofela returned to England Leicester Tigers
Max Williams released
Josh Lewis to Wales Merthyr
Jonah Holmes to England Ealing Trailfinders
Dan Baker to Wales Aberavon
Owen Jenkins to Wales Wales Sevens
Will Talbot-Davies to England Coventry
Greg Bateman retired
Joe Maksymiw to France Agen
Evan Lloyd to Wales Ebbw Vale
Carrick McDonough to Wales Ebbw Vale
Adam Warren to Wales Llandovery
Harry Fry to England Hartpury University

Some decent signings there, on paper. And lots of players leaving who were not that good. But also losing a couple of decent ones in Doge and Holmes.

Fingers crossed for a few more wins this season

I feel something had to be done and it’s the right decision for me. I know not everything is down to Dai, but some of it is and he probably wasn’t the right choice in the first place. Hopefully this is the organisation starting a proper rebuild with new coaches and more new players. Tiatia has made a difference but I’d prefer if he just focused on defence. If we are keeping him in the role then we are back to where we started with Dean Ryan being replaced by Dai.

Of course, it is also nicely timed with Rowntree just becoming available…

He had to go....he probably needed a lot more experience in coaching before taking a head coach spot.

I often felt he had a lot of loyalty to the players with contract renewals etc when in reality he should have made the tough choices.

I just hope the Dragons board understands they need someone who has had a track record of building teams via transfers. Booth and Rowntree would both do us. We're never going to get the very best head coaches as bigger teams will always take them but there are a number of guys who could do a job for us like Rob Baxter, Pat Lam, Booth & Rowntree. Weather any of those would take the job is another matter. Maybe if the budgets go up that may help entice a good head coach.

I don't think Rowntree will struggle to find a new job but we need to at least be talking to him. WOL reported that Rowntree applied for the job before we offered it to Dean Ryan, not sure if there's much truth in that. I mean gee, who made that decision...

Welshmushroom wrote: there are a number of guys who could do a job for us like Rob Baxter, Pat Lam, Booth & Rowntree.  Weather any of those would take the job is another matter.  Maybe if the budgets go up that may help entice a good head coach.

You've got no chance of Rob Baxter, he refused to be interviewed for the England job previously. He's Devonshire born and bred and would need to be forcibly evicted from the place. Money doesn't even come into it.

Pat Lam is the highest paid coach in the Prem by a distance and has a contract until 2027. You'd need the equivalent of the annual Dragons salary spend to buy him out of his contract.

Rowntree is available, could be open to taking a short term role until the Lions tour (which I'd expect him to be desperate to go on).

Toby Booth would be a good option next summer.

A move for an upcoming coach like Haydn Thomas who's coached Exeter Uni in the BUCS league, England under 20s defence and has just stepped up from Exeter academy to the Exeter first team defence role. Dave Walder former Falcons head coach and most recently Bristol attack coach.

Toby Booth isn’t going to stay in Wales. Rowntree is probably our best bet. Wails Online suggested Stephen Jones and/or Dai Young. They’re fairly realistic.

Dragons will probably pull another coach in from an academy.

I guess we will see if the new owners are being realistic with their ambitions. If they are truly after success getting the right head coach is imperative and probably the starting spot.

Dai Young probably is the best of the Welsh options but I dont think we should be looking at him.

Overseas is where we need to go. Rowntree probably will reject us purely on the fact we didnt give him a chance in the first place knowing our luck. Most other credible options are either tied into contracts or simply won't join.

I'm kind of hoping Baxter has a bad season and Exeter let him go. He would be ideal for us. I just hope we dont rush to sign just anyone. I'd rather us hold out until we can get the right guy. I would probably make Rowntree a early offer and see how that goes given he is at a loose end at the moment.

Sorry, but I just cannot see any way that Baxter would join Dragons!  Nor Rowntree for that matter.  These are top level coaches who can command top level jobs - i.e. teams in the Champions Cup, teams towards the top of leagues, even international coaching.  Why would they go to the Dragons to try to work miracles on a shoestring, under an absolute shower of a union in the WRU, and against a backdrop of all the political warfare in Welsh rugby?  Just can't see it.  

As Toby Booth has already sort of done that with Ospreys, I'm of the mind that he might be open to doing so at another Welsh team too.  But it would be a total guess.  Not sure of his reasons for leaving Ospreys, but it might be to do with the stuff I mentioned above.  If so then he won't consider Dragons.  But there's a chance he might like the challenge as he chose to do a similar job at the O's.  Just a shame that he's not available until the end of the season.

What we can't do is go for another 'up n coming' coach.  We need a tried and tested coach or DoR with demonstrable experience of improving the fortunes of teams lower down the leagues.  I think most Dragons fans (and Welsh rugby fans in general) would just like to see Dragons have a season or two where they are not last Welsh region and perhaps get up to 10th or 11th in the league.  We're not looking to win the league (although that would be great)!  Just improve our win loss ratio to something more like 40-50%.  A tough ask of course.  But a rookie coach is unlikely to be the one to do that.

Paul Turner seems to be hanging around a lot lately as a consultant of some sort.  Do you think he might be in line?  Not saying I'd go for him (although he was one coach who did do a bit better with the Dragons than most).  He just seems to fit the bill a bit in terms of having that experience, knowing Welsh rugby and the region, and already sort of at the club in some capacity.

Sure most of this is fanciful thinking - but then again so are the owners aspirations. So if they do want to get success at the top end they will need a top end head coach.

Likely they won't stump the cash it would require to get such a coach.

In all likely hood we probably will see a spate of ex unemployed coaches applying who dont have offers elsewhere and want to get back in the game. And if that is the route we go down or a unproven head coach we can expect much of the same in my eyes. It wont even matter at that point how much playing budget goes up to because usually they dont spend it on the right players generally.

The bigger issue at the Dragons is with the budgets expected to rise, I simply dont see enough pro players available up to URC standards. We really need to make sure the next generation is invested in now and then put them around capable club level players even if that means we have to recruit overseas heavily for a number of years. I'd like Welsh players were possible but right now you have to say about 60% of our current squad probably shouldnt be earning a living at rugby.

I'm also not sure the WRU would be to happy if 60% of our squad were not welsh or even if we are allowed to bring that many in. There used to be a cap at 8 but who knows if that is still in force.

But the WRU and regions will need to get together and build a short term plan that allows a transition in the long term to mostly welsh qualified players. It's not even a Dragons specific problem either, with the other 3 having similar amount of welsh players who shouldnt be playing at this level. I dont see any other viable route to success at club level or producing better players for Wales in the long term if these youngsters are not brought into higher standard squads.

The annoying thing is it didnt have to be this way but we are here now and bringing youngsters through playing alongside players not good enough at pro level won't bring them on. If we are serious about youth development we need them to play in capable squads so they understand the level required.

The only other alternative is to dump the 60% of senior welsh squad players and then fully lean into welsh youth but doing that almost defo will keep us at the bottom of the table. Given I dont see the WRU allowing my first option, youth is the only way to go and we probably will need 3-5 years before we see any type of improvement at all. Sad times.

Wouldn’t mind Booth but I think he’s a better fit as a forwards coach. I rate Dai Young as well, don’t really rate Stephen Jones though.

any updates from the Dragons what is happening with the recruitment of a new head coach? Are they leaving it till the summer? If they leave it that long will this hurt our recruitment and retention for next year? I know 20 odd guys are out of contract and I hope these are not renewed before we actually secure a replacement.

Welshmushroom wrote:any updates from the Dragons what is happening with the recruitment of a new head coach?  Are they leaving it till the summer? If they leave it that long will this hurt our recruitment and retention for next year?  I know 20 odd guys are out of contract and I hope these are not renewed before we actually secure a replacement.

It's probably as you say, which is proof that not much has changed - which would make it a waste of time parting ways with Dai.

So rumours are that they are pushing ahead without recruiting a head coach......

Hawkins, Dillon Lewis, Jarrod Evans, Tinus De Beer & Jacob Beetham all linked with us. Evans still has a option of a +1 year with Harlequins so not sure if he is even available yet depending on if both sides take up the option.

Clearly we are targeting a tighthead and Fly half though. In all honesty I would love to see us dump Reed now and actually get 2 10's. Dont think Lloyd Evans has worked out for us either. Getting 2 would let us keep Angus at 15 where I think his massive boot has been helping us a lot this year.

While at least some of these signings look positive for us it is worth noting other regions are in for them as well by all accounts.

But honestly I'm more concerned about how the renewals go. If we let most of the 20 guys go it should free a big amount of our budget up to actually start recruiting the positions we need. Still none the wiser if Funaki, Cummings and Wilson have been good signings or not yet. Wilson has the only one that has been fit as of yet and the jury is still out on him as far as I'm concerned.

I do wonder if we will start seeing some of our academy backs (especially young wingers) get some gametime this year because some of them look like real talents. Rees-Weldon and Lloyd Lewis look like to really good wing prospects.

I would like Jarrod Evans, but the rest are a no. Dillon Lewis forms well as part of a unit at Quins, that isn't going to help us because outside of that environment we already know he's poor. That will not fix our scrum. When I heard we were looking for a South African I hoped it would be the front 5. Beetham I feel will be a good player one day, he's struggling with injury though.

Hawkins should go back to Ospreys. I'm not sure why anyone else would be desperate to sign him, that's Cardiff doing Cardiff things.

Welshmushroom wrote:So rumours are that they are pushing ahead without recruiting a head coach......

Hawkins, Dillon Lewis, Jarrod Evans, Tinus De Beer & Jacob Beetham all linked with us.  Evans still has a option of a +1 year with Harlequins so not sure if he is even available yet depending on if both sides take up the option.

Clearly we are targeting a tighthead and Fly half though.  In all honesty I would love to see us dump Reed now and actually get 2 10's.   Dont think Lloyd Evans has worked out for us either.  Getting 2 would let us keep Angus at 15 where I think his massive boot has been helping us a lot this year.  

While at least some of these signings look positive for us it is worth noting other regions are in for them as well by all accounts.  

But honestly I'm more concerned about how the renewals go.  If we let most of the 20 guys go it should free a big amount of our budget up to actually start recruiting the positions we need.  Still none the wiser if Funaki, Cummings and Wilson have been good signings or not yet.  Wilson has the only one that has been fit as of yet and the jury is still out on him as far as I'm concerned.

I do wonder if we will start seeing some of our academy backs (especially young wingers) get some gametime this year because some of them look like real talents.  Rees-Weldon and Lloyd Lewis look like to really good wing prospects.  

Oli Andrew's another one, he's spent more time modelling shirts than he has playing.

I do feel it’s a bit late for Lewis, but you never know.

We have one less coach now so I fear that puts us back to square 1. Will our defence suffer as a result? Our attack? Wonder if they even care.

I wouldn't read much into the development games although it was exposure for some who required it, and Ospreys had a decent-ish team out I guess. Now that the awful AIs is behind us, I'm looking forward to some URC action!

I noticed his connection with the Dragons was because of the relationship he has with Dai. Reading his interview it didnt sound to me as if he is that fixed on even staying with us in the long term.

But yes good that URC action is back again.

Mornay Smith, Bulls TH, rumoured to cost around 250K. Surely we could afford that? In a position where we are desperate for depth too. If we couldn't afford that, then surely letting go of Coleman and Arhip would help.... The organisation is run by amateurs though.

I had been hoping we would put out a few youngsters tomorrow, but we haven't half picked some dross in our pack, when we are probably facing a powerful outfit. At least 3/5 of our front five, are not worthy of professional contracts.

Dragons: Angus O’Brien (capt); Rio Dyer, Harry Wilson, Aneurin Owen, Ewan Rosser; Will Reed, Morgan Lloyd; Josh Reynolds, James Benjamin, Dmitri Arhip, Joe Davies, Matthew Screech, Ryan Woodman, Taine Basham, Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Sam Scarfe, Aki Seiuli, Chris Coleman, George Nott, Barny Langton-Cryer, Dane Blacker, Cai Evans, Jared Rosser

Montpellier: Julien Tisseron; George Bridge, Thomas Darmon, Arthur Vincent (capt), Madosh Tambwe; Aurelien Barreau, Alexis Bernadet; Enzo Forletta, Lyam Akrab, Mohamed Haouas, Florian Verhaeghe, Tyler DuGuid, Nicolas Martins, Youssouf Soucouna, Marco Tauleigne.

Replacements: Vano Karkadze, Luca Tabarot, Wilfrid Hounkpatin, Jules Veyrier, Alex Becognee, Ryan Louwrens, Thomas Vincent, Christa Powell.

I’m not really up on French rugby to know whether that is a strong team from Montpellier or not.  But the Dragons one screams ‘focusing on the league’, to me. Hate to be negative, and maybe there are injury reasons for some of it……but that tight five is mince. Reynolds is maybe a 4th choice prop. Benjamin is a flanker cum hooker who is probably 4th choice too. Arhip is ancient and was retired not long again. Joe Davies cannot seem to use his physical attributes to much effect. Screech is a solid clubman but pretty average. The back row looks good. But Christ, they’re going to be going backwards behind that tight 5. And the backs are going to struggle for much front foot ball.

Doesn’t help the narrative in Wales that the Dragons are mostly made up of semi pro players to fill the squad out when we put that team out for a European match.

For a home game, I think it's very disappointing.

I did foolishly buy a ticket for Boxing Day earlier, as the Dragons are trying to say that ticket sales are going well. The Terrace seemed to have loads of available space on the map though, for a limited tickets left or whatever the yellow colour means.

As far as I can tell, there is one in Montpellier's starting team that started their last Top 14 game(the FB Tisseron). Couple off the bench from that game in too. I was hoping Chris Kirwan would've done an article by now, talking about them a bit or the number of changes at least.

So they're not loaded up, but it seems like a lot of 2/3 choice players from them.

Apparently Dai Buttress wasn't pleased with some of the new signings, something I agree with. I'm not sure what his position is now though, as I thought he stepped down - it's hard to keep up. Evidently, we need about 10 more new players and some new coaches.

Promotions like Coghlan and Westwood have gone well enough. Lewis-Hughes (the 9 fingers) has been a great signing too, but we haven't really seen much of the others, whilst Wilson doesn't get many opportunities.

Heard us linked with De Beer a few times now as well. I don't remember him being a good goal-kicker, but I could be wrong.

Re. Buttress - I think he's just part-owner now along with the other 2 guys. They formed a consortium to buy the Dragons from the WRU. But no longer involved in the day to day running of the Dragons. At least I think that's it.

Ta. Wonder what the point is in owning it if they aren’t running anything? I can’t imagine Dragons turning over much profit any time soon, they’re still in debt as far as I know.

mikey_dragon wrote:Ta. Wonder what the point is in owning it if they aren’t running anything? I can’t imagine Dragons turning over much profit any time soon, they’re still in debt as far as I know.

Yeah it’s a weird one. Googled it to remind myself and there’s a quote saying ‘we’re not in it to make any money’. Fine for Buttress who is local so at least has a tie. Can’t imagine why the other guys would want in as I don’t think they’re local. Sure one is American!

One of the directors has already left. I think that news passed me by. So just Buttress and 1 other now. They’re listed as directors so I agree with you, you’d think they would be running something or having some input. Useless there’s some agreement that ‘rugby decisions’ are the remit of the head coach/DoR?

On the field…… well, not sure what to say. Another disappointment. Could have, should have, etc. But ultimately the 79 minutes before the last one is where we really lost it. People calling for high tackles on 80+ mins. Ok. But it’s not why we lost the game. Going 18-0 down and scoring nothing in the 2nd half is a better place to start the analysis, even if it was a good come back to 18-14.

I thought Buttress was just advisory and the other two were still there. Shows what the communication is like really.

I also thought David Wright was a local lad.

I really can’t keep up with it.

I was going to challenge a few people on the “high tackle(s)”, as that’s fair to say we blew it before that. It wasn’t helped about Dragons saying about the non penalty on full time either.

Funny how nobody mentioned about the potential Joe Davies foul play with his first half big shot, for what I thought was head contact.

I don’t want to slag him off (as he is one of our better players), but Basham didn’t help us at the end with the knock on, because he rushed too much to play the ball.