WALES INTERNATIONAL: GAMES, SQUADS, TOURNAMENTS, CHAT - SUMMER TOUR & SEASON 2022/23

First topic message reminder :

Here it is:

Springbok team to face Wales in Cape Town:
15 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 17 caps, 12 pts (1t, 2c, 1p)
14 – Cheslin Kolbe (Toulon) – 19 caps 18pts, 50pts (10t)
13 – Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks) – 27 caps, 25 pts (5t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Wild Knights) – 59 caps, 35 pts (7t)
11 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 26 caps, 100 pts (20t)
10 – Handre Pollard (Leicester Tigers) – 61 caps, 613 pts (6t, 83c, 131p, 4d)
9 – Jaden Hendrikse (Cell C Sharks) – 3 caps, 5 pts (1t)
8 – Jasper Wiese (Leicester Tigers) – 12 caps, 0 pts
7 – Pieter-Steph du Toit (Toyota Verblitz) – 59 caps, 25 pts (5t)
6 – Siya Kolisi (captain, Cell C Sharks) – 64 caps, 30 pts (6t)
5 – Lood de Jager (Wild Knights) – 57 caps, 25 pts (5t)
4 – Eben Etzebeth (Cell C Sharks) – 99 caps, 15 pts (3t)
3 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 47 caps, 5pts (1t)
2 – Bongi Mbonambi (Cell C Sharks) – 49 caps, 50 pts (10t)
1 – Trevor Nyakane (Racing 92) – 55 caps, 5pts (1t)

Replacements:
16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 48 caps, 55 pts (11t)
17 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 60 caps, 5pts (1t)
18 – Vincent Koch (Wasps) 33 caps, 0 pts
19 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 52 caps, 5pts (1t)
20 – Kwagga Smith (Shizuoka Blue Revs) – 20 caps, 5 pts (1t)
21 – Elrigh Louw (Vodacom Bulls) – 1 cap, 0pts
22 – Faf de Klerk (Canon Eagles) – 37caps, 25pts (5t)
23 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 73 caps, 60 pts (12t)

doctor_grey wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Worst Run Union. I feel all the players in Wales need to strike, not just the internationals. The reduced squads and funding just isn’t going to work. We’re bad now, it’ll get worse. We could potentially have all our teams (3 or 4) on par with the old Connacht.

As I have said previously, the WRU owns the Principality Stadium and are sitting on all that equity, but won't pay the players who essentially built the place?  

Yep. I also read they're sitting on a pot of 4.5 million, but saving it for hospitality improvements...

mikey_dragon wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Worst Run Union. I feel all the players in Wales need to strike, not just the internationals. The reduced squads and funding just isn’t going to work. We’re bad now, it’ll get worse. We could potentially have all our teams (3 or 4) on par with the old Connacht.

As I have said previously, the WRU owns the Principality Stadium and are sitting on all that equity, but won't pay the players who essentially built the place?  

Yep. I also read they're sitting on a pot of 4.5 million, but saving it for hospitality improvements...

OK, That is different.  No need to pay the players if the hospitality is right.....

The man of Welsh nightmares is confirmed out of the 6N. No talismanic fullback for Italy at the weekend.

It's a shame though, he's so good to watch, even when he's playing against you.

formerly known as Sam wrote:The man of Welsh nightmares is confirmed out of the 6N. No talismanic fullback for Italy at the weekend.

And we're without Cuthbert due to a foot injury, so same same

It's Thursday for the team announcement I assume?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It's Thursday for the team announcement I assume?

Think so.

I have seen the following suggested team.

Liam Williams, Josh Adams, Mason Grady, Joe Hawkins, Rio Dyer, Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb, Wyn Jones, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis, Daf Jenkins, Adam Beard, Justin Tipuric, Jac Morgan, Taulupe Faletau

RiscaGame wrote:I have seen the following suggested team.

Liam Williams, Josh Adams, Mason Grady, Joe Hawkins, Rio Dyer, Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb, Wyn Jones, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis, Daf Jenkins, Adam Beard, Justin Tipuric, Jac Morgan, Taulupe Faletau

Christ the backs aren't going to get much quick ball with Webb there!

I can't help feeling there's a staleness in the squad that needs addressing. I hesitate to say 'yesterday's men', but Biggar, Faletau, Tipuric even - would a coach who didn't have a years-old releationship with these players be putting the same faith in them? I'm finding it so hard to get excited about the national side, especially when you contrast it with the ebullience of some of the other sides in the tournament, including Italy.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I can't help feeling there's a staleness in the squad that needs addressing. I hesitate to say 'yesterday's men', but Biggar, Faletau, Tipuric even - would a coach who didn't have a years-old releationship with these players be putting the same faith in them? I'm finding it so hard to get excited about the national side, especially when you contrast it with the ebullience of some of the other sides in the tournament, including Italy.

I know what you mean, but up until recently some of these old guard have been having good seasons. Tipuric had some stormers in the URC and Europe with people lauding his skills and linking him to big money moves abroad. Biggar was, to my knowledge, doing well for Toulon. So it's not like Gatland has been trying to play them back into form. It's just the 6N that they've looked flat and I wonder if, for some of them, it's to do with the contract stuff but also transitioning to a whole new (old) system. Not sure we should expect them to all click with the new plays and styles within 2 or 3 games.

Yeah it's just how I feel about it, and I do acknowledge that I might feel differently if we'd won a game or two. As it is, it feels to an extent like it's the same old players playing the same old way - and it was often not the most exciting rugby in the world under Gatland even when we were winning.

I loved watching the Ospreys in Europe. You wonder what a difference Dewi Lake might have made if he was fit - or if Rhys Davies had been given a crack.

Yep, definitely some players that have been overlooked and some that have missed out through injury. Gatland has become a bit of a tinker man this 6N, which is not like him. So I’m inclined to agree with the school of thought that he’s just looking at players and combos this 6N ahead of the (more important, for him) World Cup on the horizon. Just seeing what he’s got and who can do what. Saying that, I’d be more confident in Gatland had he come back to Wales off the back of success but from what I’ve heard none of his sides have won for a long time. Worrying

If his old guard is starting to creak, the problem for Gatland has got to be what approach he takes to the World Cup. What would the Welsh rugby public forgive him most easily for? Sticking with the old faithful and hoping that they turn the performances around? Or trying to pick the most talented younger players and give them that RWC experience?

World cup just needs to be the best players (form) at the time, regardless of age. If AWJ is one of two form locks in the run up to the WC then he should be in 100% as far as I'm concerned. i wouldn't question it for a second. If he's flagging though and someone like Rhys Davies is doing much better for club then he should be in. The WC is not a development tournament. Just the best we can pick at that given time. However, as with many things the concept of 'best' is subjective, and I wouldn't necessarily be getting the whole picture on form just from watching from my armchair. So discussions on who the coach should/shouldn't have picked are always a bit pointless for us mere fans! Fun though

Wales: Liam Williams; Josh Adams, Mason Grady, Joe Hawkins, Rio Dyer; Owen Williams, Rhys Webb; Wyn Jones, Ken Owens (capt), Tomas Francis, Dafydd Jenkins, Adam Beard, Jac Morgan, Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Scott Baldwin, Gareth Thomas, Dillon Lewis, Rhys Davies, Tommy Reffell, Tomos Williams, George North, Louis Rees-Zammit.

As an outsider it doesn't seem that there is a lot of cohesive thinking in your selections.  Players come in, go out, come in ...  I appreciate LRZ was a bit iffy defensively against England, but still one of your most potent attacking options.  And what has Tommy Reffell have to do to start?

Sharkey06 wrote: And what has Tommy Reffell have to do to start?

Get a silly haircut and wear a blue scrum cap.

Yep, Bradley Roberts and Christ Tshuinza completely dropped. As I mentioned above, I think Gatland is just looking at everyone. We might get a more settled side for the WC warmups? Who knows. But even though we've seen some players completely dropped here i expect they'll still be in the WC squad.

I know Italy are massively improved, but I still think that the logical approach (against any opponents) would be someone like Refell to start and get turnovers and cause a nuisance at the tackle area, and then bring on someone who's more of a linkman 7 (Tipuric) when the game opens up and legs tire. Yet Gats has gone for the opposite.

I'm glad Biggar's not involved. (I can't forget or forgive him saying, picked up by the ref's mic, 'who the f*ck are you?' to Ben White during the Scotland game. That was on top of his comments in the build-up to the match.)

With LRZ, he's on the bench so it's no big deal. I really hope Rio takes this chance though, he hasn't looked up to it in the two starts he's had this tournament.

Three steps forward, three steps back, as the saying goes. With us it's three steps back and then another three steps back, and so on... Wooden spoon incoming and deservedly so. Gatland's record ruined, in-part done in by his own seections though.

The Gatland Tombola

It's bad that I'm not even looking forward to this game.

Quick question, who's covering fly half if Williams goes off?

Maine man wrote:Quick question, who's covering fly half if Williams goes off?

Joe Hawkins.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Maine man wrote:Quick question, who's covering fly half if Williams goes off?

Joe Hawkins.

Has he played there much before Mikey?

Maine man wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Maine man wrote:Quick question, who's covering fly half if Williams goes off?

Joe Hawkins.

Has he played there much before Mikey?

In school I think

What an absolutely shambolic campaign so far. Whilst much of the contactual issues are not down to Gatland (the extent to which they are could be debated), making public that there has been a split in camp over the issues, and putting at least some of the loss to England down to that is unforgivable.

"There was quite a significant split in the group over which way to go and I think that definitely caused some tension within the group for a couple of weeks."

Where we go with no real plan remains to be seen. Struggling to score points he benches our most potent attacking threat. With arguably two of the best lineout operators we've ever had, we continually lose possession there plus a defence that is conceding an unprecedented number of tries. Anyone who thinks we are better off with 'Gats' is deluded.

Gats probably isn't wrong about that, but I do agree he should have shut up. A lot of his selections and tactics have been questionable, to say the least. Leaving out some of the top performers in Smith, Morris, Moriarty and somehow having Baldwin leapfrog Roberts all looks a bit silly now.

I agree that I don't think Gatland has dealt with the strike etc very well and that was poor form by him.

Let's face it, he is nothing but a WRU stooge anyway, so you can see why he got the job.

Find it a little mad that we are marginal favourites for tomorrow. Italy evens on Betfair. Quite fancy doubling my money

Italy will probably win by 50!

Two/Three years ago if you thought Ytaly would beat Wales e very one would think you yhink you are stupid.
But after Italy win last year, you gave to thimk again/

ITV are doing a good job of highlighting the struggles Wales are facing, thanks to our overlords.

RiscaGame wrote:ITV are doing a good job of highlighting the struggles Wales are facing, thanks to our overlords.

If Wales lose today will that be the excuse as to why they ;ost?

That was a wicked bounce

Well, much better start from us but we have been shocking. A try from nothing is a good sign.

Italy making a few unforced errors today

majesticimperialman wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:ITV are doing a good job of highlighting the struggles Wales are facing, thanks to our overlords.

If Wales lose today will that be the excuse as to why they ;ost?

It’s not a good idea madge, stop the act. All it takes is one alert and you’re on another vacation. Hopefully I don’t join you .

Heaf wrote:Italy making a few unforced errors today

Ah actually the last one was the AR getting it wrong - overruled by ref

mikey_dragon wrote:Well, much better start from us but we have been shocking. A try from nothing is a good sign.

Wonder if Italy are missing their usual fullback - may have been in a better position to avoid the 2nd bounce?

Wales definitely seem to have upped their pace and intensity though.

They are missing their 15, the one who still gives us nightmares. Tommy Allan is usually a fly-half.

Shocking defence for Wales' 2nd try - Italy not at the races today so far.

Allen has been pretty poor to say the least.

At the moment it looks like if Wales get into the 22 they score ...

Dropped but surely a high tackle.

That ball wasn’t lost forward, fingers were still on it.

Italy making chances but not taking them

Very lucky there.

And he's definitely offside.