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Prem 2022 - 2023 Thoughts

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Post by Geordie Wed 10 Aug 2022, 9:21 am

Season is nearly upon us....whats your opinions and hopes for this season...

1. Hopes and Expectations on finishing spot
2. What you want to see from your team
3. Your strengths and Weaknesses
3. Player to watch
4. Academy prospect to watch.

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Post by Poorfour Wed 10 Aug 2022, 10:38 am

1. Hopes: Premiership winners and Champions Cup semi finalists. Expectations : Top 6, maybe Top 4 if matches in the international windows go our way
2. Better management of the ref at the breakdown, better lineout, Anyanwu to step up as backup to Andre. A back row of Evans, Kenningham and Dombrandt. Otherwise, more of the same please, and no serious injuries
3. Strengths: Creativity, ability to score from anywhere, scrum, defence that creates opportunities, ability to produce magic in the dying moments. Weaknesses: lineout, breakdown penalties, vulnerable to power-based sides, Saracens.
4. Marcus Smith. Take your eyes off him if you dare….
5. Fin Baxter. The heir apparent to Joe Marler. This should be the year when he steps up to regular first team appearances.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 10 Aug 2022, 11:18 am

1. Expectations - as defending champions would like to be on the top 2 again but with the international windows might be more like top 4. Knock outs in Europe again please.

2. Much the same as last season but with the continued development of the attacking game to give us an extra edge.

3. Strengths - tactical kicking, kick chase, lineout and defence. Weaknesses, not many only really the sometimes one dimensional nature of our attack and missing big ball carriers at the start of the season.

4. Pollard - world cup winning flyhalf arrives with big shoes to fill replacing Ford and competition from cult hero Freddie Burns. His big boot and physicality should suit the strengths of Tigers but he'll need to show some attacking skills to drive the team on.

5. Ilione - has looked classy at under 20s level but injuries have limited his opportunities so far. With no other natural openside besides Reffell he could get more game time there this season. Also worth keeping an eye on the return of Cam Henderson who was injured nearly all of last season having broken into the first team towards the back end of the season before. A Chessum/Henderson second row combination could be a Tigers staple for a decade or more.

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Post by Margin_Walker Wed 10 Aug 2022, 12:18 pm

1. Probably as optimistic as I've gone into the season for a long while, which is a sure fire sign it's going to go badly. Realistically I'd want us to sneak into the HC places again (assuming still top 8) and anything above would be a bonus.
2. Concede fewer points and a little more resilience in the maul defence.
3. One of the best attacking teams in the league when the game is fast and loose. It's high risk though, so we do leak too many points on turnover ball. Would be good to try and improve the balance on that front.
4. Current player would be Janse van Rensburg. Was a superb signing last season and an absolute rock at 12. Also acts as FH cover so allows us to go 6-2 or stack the bench with outside backs. New signing would be So'otala Fa'aso'o. If he can get anywhere near his Brive form, he could make a real impression at 8.
5. Last season was a great year for Academy talent breaking through with Arundell, Joseph and Pearson. This season, if I had to pick one to make a first team impression it would probably be Monty Bradbury at FH. Cunningham-South will probably get a decent amount of gametime, but will need to spend most of pre season on catching practice after his Eng U20s horror show.


Last edited by Margin_Walker on Thu 11 Aug 2022, 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Geordie Thu 11 Aug 2022, 10:20 am

For the Falcons

1. Hopes and Expectations on finishing spot
I hope we can move a couple of spots away from the bottom, but new coaching set up, new players in key positions, a relatively young squad...bottom 2 expectations.

2. What you want to see from your team
I want to see us ditch this awful ponderous slow attacking style (if we even had an attack) and give our attacking players the chance to show what we can do. We have pace through out the backs...play with some inventiveness

Also sort out the defence...it was so narrow teams just went wide and scored against us at a canter.

3. Your strengths and Weaknesses
Pack is solid with some England experience now, and the pace in the backs is amongst the best in the league.
Coaching is the biggest weakness...the style and tactics. Dave Walder is trying to mix it up now so this season will be fascinating.

3. Player to watch
Whilst Moroni should be a massive leader and game controller in there now....ill pick Schoeman at 10. IF he is over his bad injury and can really ignite our inept attack then we'll be a different proposition this season...if he hasnt...could be another long season.

4. Academy prospect to watch.
Theres quite a number as the Falcons will be putting a lot of hope / trust in some young inexperienced quality this season, such as highly rated LH Phil Brantingham etc, however ill pick Freddie Lockwood. He got some games at the end of last season, and will be a big player this season. A powerhouse carrier and physical back rower. Could really add a dimension to our carrying in the pack alongside big Carl Fearns who'll be back fit after a season out with a neck injury.

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Post by Recwatcher16 Thu 11 Aug 2022, 1:19 pm

The crazy world of following Bath RUFC, as an eternal optimist......

Hopes; That we maintain a relatively healthy squad free from injury and covid.
Expectations; That the new coaching set up create a credible defensive strategy.

Want to see; A game plan that lasts 80 minutes and doesn't falter in the last 15 minutes.

Strengths; effective set piece, talented backs, pacy back row.
Weaknesses; Inexperience at 10, failure to physically dominate with and without the ball, lack of effective game plan

Player to watch; Orlando Bailey at fly half. The Bath season will progress or falter on his season. Bailey turns 21 end of September.

Academy prospect; Ewan Richards at lock is some prospect at 20 years of age and a future Bath captain. He can currently play any where in the back five but not sure big enough for test rugby and needs to be lucky avoiding injuries.
There are a raft of promising young props and back rowers coming through, some will be get some luck and make the grade and others won't.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 11 Aug 2022, 7:40 pm

Recwatcher16 wrote:

Strengths; effective set piece,

Got to say I thought the Bath lineout was a bit wobbly last season and the scrum suffered when the first choice options weren't there (not unsurprising in itself but the second choice really did get pushed around). Do you think new signings and new coaching staff with shore those areas up?

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Post by Recwatcher16 Fri 12 Aug 2022, 8:47 am

Yes that's fair and I am assuming first and perhaps second picks in the front row/locks now.
Last season there were a number of games where academy props were used. In the whole squad last season we only had three senior locks and all were missing for large parts of the season. Clearly been identified as an area that needed recruitment and with Ewels out for the season; with Attwood, Roux, Van Velze and now Etete, who everyone seems to be raving about. A fair bit of grunt and experience with that lot plus McNally, Spencer and young Richards. Time will tell.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 12 Aug 2022, 9:04 am

You're right the recruitment in the tight five has been a big improvement on prior years. Roux should be a very astute signing, Attwood will have to be managed but target him on the right games and he'll be an asset. Spencer if you can ever get him fit and keep him there is handy, Etete is a punt and van Velze squad cover not sure they will be of massive use outside the PRC but you never know. McInally reliable as ever.

Annett coming in at hooker is a good move as well. If Dunn wasn't there the Bath lineout wasn't as good. Additional experience in that department not a bad thing. Still think the stable of props could be improved but that is tough with the smaller cap, keep Obano and Stuart fit and with Attwood in the row against the better scrummaging teams that should be decent.

Will Bath go to dual opensides for next season? Colete coming in alongside Reid and Underhill gives you three good options. Your options at 8 jump as well and dual opensides might offer more support to the Bath backs which is where your big threats are.

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Post by Geordie Fri 12 Aug 2022, 9:12 am

Stuart had a good England tour...so keep him fit and improving...and hes a very good tighthead.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 12 Aug 2022, 9:16 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Stuart had a good England tour...so keep him fit and improving...and hes a very good tighthead.

He does look like he's coming into his prime years doesn't he. Not long turned 26 so that is about right. Started to apply a bit of pressure to Sincks.

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Post by Geordie Fri 12 Aug 2022, 9:36 am

Sam there always been a good tight head in there...it just really needs to come out. Hes got the size and everything to compliment also. Hopefully it "clicks" with him like it has with our LH Brocklebank.

Ive not hid the fact im not impressed with Sinkler remotely at the moment or for a while now. Just looks like he strolls around half hearted so Stuart could really put hm self in pole position with a good start to the season.

They'll all have to get past Trevor Davison first though... Wink

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Post by Recwatcher16 Fri 12 Aug 2022, 11:15 am



Will Bath go to dual opensides for next season? Colete coming in alongside Reid and Underhill gives you three good options. Your options at 8 jump as well and dual opensides might offer more support to the Bath backs which is where your big threats are.

The back row selection will be interesting, JJ Tonks, Cloete and White will be watched for effectiveness. Reid and Bayliss can play all three positions and usually fitted around Faletau and the raft of injuries. We haven't seen the best of Coetzee at 8 yet following his bad injury. I dont think Underhill will be seen much in Bath colours this season- his history of concussion is a real concern.
That leaves the underrated Tom Ellis and Mike William's to make up the blindside cover. A pretty good list of options, they just need a game plan now from the new coaches.

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Post by Geordie Fri 12 Aug 2022, 11:17 am

Will Ewells long term absence be a bonus or a loss?

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Post by BigGee Fri 12 Aug 2022, 11:49 am

There is a rumour going around that Wasps are about to go bankrupt.

Hard to say if they would get bailed out if that was the case or they won't be able to fulfil their fixtures and the league goes back down to 12 teams.

It would be pretty serious, especially for the players involved if that was the case.

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Post by Recwatcher16 Fri 12 Aug 2022, 12:05 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Will Ewells long term absence be a bonus or a loss?

There isnt a massive list of leaders at Bath, a perennial problem at the club. MacInally will step into the breach, if he plays but here has been no mention of captaincy from the coaching group. I could see either Dunn or Spencer given the nod from scrum half and Bayliss is another option but again might not consistently get in the back row. There is not an obvious list of candidates, so from that perspective Ewels will be missed.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 12 Aug 2022, 12:09 pm

BigGee wrote:There is a rumour going around that Wasps are about to go bankrupt.

Hard to say if they would get bailed out if that was the case or they won't be able to fulfil their fixtures and the league goes back down to 12 teams.

It would be pretty serious, especially for the players involved if that was the case.

All depends on whether they can refinance the bonds they used to buy the stadium. They are currently in a £35m hole. Would be a massive hit to the Prem to lose a well known side like Wasps. A lot of players suddenly without clubs and the Prem clubs not in a position to sign them up. Eddie will be concerned if it forces the likes of Barbeary, Willis, Willis, Launchbury, West etc to move overseas in the short term.

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Post by Geordie Fri 12 Aug 2022, 12:22 pm

i imagine a few would look at Odowgu...different to all the pacy wingers around at the moment and wouldnt be expensive.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 12 Aug 2022, 12:35 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:i imagine a few would look at Odowgu...different to all the pacy wingers around at the moment and wouldnt be expensive.

Well none of them would be expensive, they'd all be taking whatever they could get for the season about to start.

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Post by Geordie Fri 12 Aug 2022, 1:37 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:i imagine a few would look at Odowgu...different to all the pacy wingers around at the moment and wouldnt be expensive.

Well none of them would be expensive, they'd all be taking whatever they could get for the season about to start.

Very true

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 16 Aug 2022, 10:41 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:i imagine a few would look at Odowgu...different to all the pacy wingers around at the moment and wouldnt be expensive.

Well none of them would be expensive, they'd all be taking whatever they could get for the season about to start.

Very true

We'd be one of the few teams in the league that could fit any of them in. I wouldn't say no to half the squad tbh, but hopefully it doesn't come to that....would be a huge loss to the league.


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Post by Geordie Tue 16 Aug 2022, 12:00 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:i imagine a few would look at Odowgu...different to all the pacy wingers around at the moment and wouldnt be expensive.

Well none of them would be expensive, they'd all be taking whatever they could get for the season about to start.

Very true

We'd be one of the few teams in the league that could fit any of them in. I wouldn't say no to half the squad tbh, but hopefully it doesn't come to that....would be a huge loss to the league.


Is there many you'd want sarge? I'd take a few but not loads.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 16 Aug 2022, 2:48 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:i imagine a few would look at Odowgu...different to all the pacy wingers around at the moment and wouldnt be expensive.

Well none of them would be expensive, they'd all be taking whatever they could get for the season about to start.

Very true

We'd be one of the few teams in the league that could fit any of them in. I wouldn't say no to half the squad tbh, but hopefully it doesn't come to that....would be a huge loss to the league.


Is there many you'd want sarge? I'd take a few but not loads.

West, either of their two new tightheads, Launchbury, Barbeary, J Willis, Atkinson, Robson, Shields, T Willis and maybe Minozzi would all add to to Falcons match day 23 should any one of them be picked up. Emphasis on tight five I'd expect by preference.

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Post by Geordie Tue 16 Aug 2022, 3:44 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:i imagine a few would look at Odowgu...different to all the pacy wingers around at the moment and wouldnt be expensive.

Well none of them would be expensive, they'd all be taking whatever they could get for the season about to start.

Very true

We'd be one of the few teams in the league that could fit any of them in. I wouldn't say no to half the squad tbh, but hopefully it doesn't come to that....would be a huge loss to the league.


Is there many you'd want sarge? I'd take a few but not loads.

West, either of their two new tightheads, Launchbury, Barbeary, J Willis, Atkinson, Robson, Shields, T Willis and maybe Minozzi would all add to to Falcons match day 23 should any one of them be picked up. Emphasis on tight five I'd expect by preference.

West - YES BUT
Class act. But we have 1 LH whos really clicked at 26 and two young talents.

Either of their two new tightheads - TBC - i dont know who they have signed.

Launchbury - Yes

Barbeary - Not on the hype train. We have some excellent back rowers and ones coming through.

J Willis Yes

Atkinson - We have 3 completely new 10's we need to see how they perform.

Robson - Again, we have 2 very young talented 9's coming through and a young new signing who looks very good.

Shields - Ah he has decent games, but wouldnt say hes MUCH better than what we have or have coming through

T Willis - Yes rate him highly...but we have plenty of 8's

Minozz - We have similar or better.

So potentially 4, but T.Willis and West could come off the list leaving Launchbury and Jack Willis

Your probably laughing thinking im an idiot and in many ways you might be right...but the fun of rugby for me is seeing youngsters being developed and coming through. In the case of many of the above like LH for example...we have that. Even though i rate West very highly, we have one senior player really coming good (Brocklebank) and 2 cracking young pretenders (Cade and Brantingham).

But when it comes to real game changing players like Launchbury or Jack Willis then you couldnt refuse that.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 16 Aug 2022, 6:44 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:i imagine a few would look at Odowgu...different to all the pacy wingers around at the moment and wouldnt be expensive.

Well none of them would be expensive, they'd all be taking whatever they could get for the season about to start.

Very true

We'd be one of the few teams in the league that could fit any of them in. I wouldn't say no to half the squad tbh, but hopefully it doesn't come to that....would be a huge loss to the league.


Is there many you'd want sarge? I'd take a few but not loads.

West, either of their two new tightheads, Launchbury, Barbeary, J Willis, Atkinson, Robson, Shields, T Willis and maybe Minozzi would all add to to Falcons match day 23 should any one of them be picked up. Emphasis on tight five I'd expect by preference.

West - YES BUT
Class act. But we have 1 LH whos really clicked at 26 and two young talents.  

Either of their two new tightheads - TBC - i dont know who they have signed.  

Launchbury - Yes

Barbeary - Not on the hype train. We have some excellent back rowers and ones coming through.  

J Willis Yes

Atkinson - We have 3 completely new 10's we need to see how they perform.  

Robson - Again, we have 2 very young talented 9's coming through and a young new signing who looks very good.  

Shields - Ah he has decent games, but wouldnt say hes MUCH better than what we have or have coming through

T Willis  - Yes rate him highly...but we have plenty of 8's

Minozz - We have similar or better.  

So potentially 4, but T.Willis and West could come off the list leaving Launchbury and Jack Willis

Your probably laughing thinking im an idiot and in many ways you might be right...but the fun of rugby for me is seeing youngsters being developed and coming through. In the case of many of the above like LH for example...we have that. Even though i rate West very highly, we have one senior player really coming good (Brocklebank) and 2 cracking young pretenders (Cade and Brantingham).

But when it comes to real game changing players like Launchbury or Jack Willis then you couldnt refuse that.

One senior LH and two young guns is not great propping depth. A player like West you would bite the hand off of his agent.

The two new tightheads are Koch and Ryan. They are both internationals and both better than Davison though Ryan marginally so. Koch is one of the best tightheads going.

Atkinson is better than the 10s at Falcons with plenty of potential left to kick on again.

Backrow close enough.

Minozzi when not broken is better than Penny (who I rate) and Tait (who I don't). Admittedly broken has tended to be a problem for a while with him.

I do feel for Wasps fans (almost), they've finally put together what should be a pretty well rounded squad. The injury to Stooke is a massive loss and the lack of funds to sign injury cover might well hurt them. Were it not for the bond mess they've got themselves into then a replacement would have been sourced and they'd have gone into the season pretty confident. Maybe could have done with another centre.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Wed 17 Aug 2022, 5:08 am

That's a fair list Sam, I'd take them all expect Shields who I think is bang average.

I'm bit of yin to your yang GF......I really like Barbeary, but don't really think Willis is as good as everyone makes out.

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Post by Geordie Wed 17 Aug 2022, 7:57 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:i imagine a few would look at Odowgu...different to all the pacy wingers around at the moment and wouldnt be expensive.

Well none of them would be expensive, they'd all be taking whatever they could get for the season about to start.

Very true

We'd be one of the few teams in the league that could fit any of them in. I wouldn't say no to half the squad tbh, but hopefully it doesn't come to that....would be a huge loss to the league.


Is there many you'd want sarge? I'd take a few but not loads.

West, either of their two new tightheads, Launchbury, Barbeary, J Willis, Atkinson, Robson, Shields, T Willis and maybe Minozzi would all add to to Falcons match day 23 should any one of them be picked up. Emphasis on tight five I'd expect by preference.

West - YES BUT
Class act. But we have 1 LH whos really clicked at 26 and two young talents.  

Either of their two new tightheads - TBC - i dont know who they have signed.  

Launchbury - Yes

Barbeary - Not on the hype train. We have some excellent back rowers and ones coming through.  

J Willis Yes

Atkinson - We have 3 completely new 10's we need to see how they perform.  

Robson - Again, we have 2 very young talented 9's coming through and a young new signing who looks very good.  

Shields - Ah he has decent games, but wouldnt say hes MUCH better than what we have or have coming through

T Willis  - Yes rate him highly...but we have plenty of 8's

Minozz - We have similar or better.  

So potentially 4, but T.Willis and West could come off the list leaving Launchbury and Jack Willis

Your probably laughing thinking im an idiot and in many ways you might be right...but the fun of rugby for me is seeing youngsters being developed and coming through. In the case of many of the above like LH for example...we have that. Even though i rate West very highly, we have one senior player really coming good (Brocklebank) and 2 cracking young pretenders (Cade and Brantingham).

But when it comes to real game changing players like Launchbury or Jack Willis then you couldnt refuse that.

One senior LH and two young guns is not great propping depth. A player like West you would bite the hand off of his agent.

The two new tightheads are Koch and Ryan. They are both internationals and both better than Davison though Ryan marginally so. Koch is one of the best tightheads going.

Atkinson is better than the 10s at Falcons with plenty of potential left to kick on again.

Backrow close enough.

Minozzi when not broken is better than Penny (who I rate) and Tait (who I don't). Admittedly broken has tended to be a problem for a while with him.

I do feel for Wasps fans (almost), they've finally put together what should be a pretty well rounded squad. The injury to Stooke is a massive loss and the lack of funds to sign injury cover might well hurt them. Were it not for the bond mess they've got themselves into then a replacement would have been sourced and they'd have gone into the season pretty confident. Maybe could have done with another centre.

Koch yes id take him, Ryan no.

Ive said i rate West very highly, but Cade has 2 seasons of first choice LH at Doncaster in the champs under his belt as one of the best LH's in the champs and Brantingahm is a huge propsect. We also have aging Logo and Davison can also both play LH.
it goes back to seeing one of your own come through or spend money on a player. I dont think we need a LH whereas someone like Launchbury would be an essential acquisition.

Atkinson is another good prospect, but Schoeman is a good player if hes over his injury and young Thomas who we've signed from Wales is looking a good signing also who can open the game up. Add in Johnson who will get more gametime this season and Connon who is actually a solid 10 but a confidence player then this season will be interesting to watch.

Minozzi, better in some ways than penny not in others. Tait will barely play, not even sure why they kept him on to be honest, but Iwan Stephens will move to 15 more and more. Thats his position, not wing...and even more so as we have an abundance of quality wingers. Stephens will be a very good 15 and i can see the Welsh looking at him once he takes the Falcons 15 shirt permanently...

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Post by Geordie Wed 17 Aug 2022, 8:42 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:That's a fair list Sam, I'd take them all expect Shields who I think is bang average.

I'm bit of yin to your yang GF......I really like Barbeary, but don't really think Willis is as good as everyone makes out.

Most probably disagree with me over Barbeary Sgt, to be fair. Let see how he goes this season.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 17 Aug 2022, 9:15 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:That's a fair list Sam, I'd take them all expect Shields who I think is bang average.

I'm bit of yin to your yang GF......I really like Barbeary, but don't really think Willis is as good as everyone makes out.

Most probably disagree with me over Barbeary Sgt, to be fair. Let see how he goes this season.

Big year for Barbeary, he's had enough games now and he's past questions over lingering injuries and what position he should play. He needs to deliver consistently. He's got a lot of potential, Wasps will need him to deliver.

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Post by Margin_Walker Wed 17 Aug 2022, 9:19 am

Stephens strikes me as potentially too short to make a serious go at of it at full back without being a touch exposed aerially GF.

I'd have him on the wing.

I'm often wrong though, so we'll see.

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Post by Geordie Wed 17 Aug 2022, 9:57 am

Possibly Marg, but thats his position from youth in league etc so again we shall see.

Thats the fun of rugby as i said above watching your young players develop in to what they can be.

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Post by Margin_Walker Wed 17 Aug 2022, 10:10 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Possibly Marg, but thats his position from youth in league etc so again we shall see.

Thats the fun of rugby as i said above watching your young players develop in to what they can be.

Yep, for sure. Certainly the bit I enjoy most anyway. Great seeing a core of home grown players at a club

There's been a huge focus shift at LI since Kidney took over (TBF probably built on the foundations Kennedy put in place)

In Kidney's first season (18/19) there were 4 senior academy graduates in our first team squad. Going into this season there are 18. Hopefully in the next season or two more and more will filter through into starting positions.


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Post by Geordie Wed 17 Aug 2022, 10:22 am

It makes such a difference when you see you team full or have a majority of home based players.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sun 21 Aug 2022, 1:19 am

Telegraph says Premiership clubs got £124 million in Government money to bail them out, higher than the initial £59m plan.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2022/08/20/premiership-clubs-took-124m-taxpayer-cash/

Mark Evans (former Saracens & Quins boss) has been giving interviews recently, repeating the message of "Unholy Union" which Michael Aylwin wrote, based on conversations with Evans. Most recently, he's done a Flats & Shanks podcast

He says cumulative losses at Premiership clubs, since the league started, have ballooned to £500m, and we are currently not on course to break even.

While Evans thinks rugby is too big to fail, he can't see how the model can continue without owners coming together, and creating a more viable package. He thinks clubs have allowed costs to increase without justification. Not just player salaries but coaching and admin teams too.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 24 Aug 2022, 3:55 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Telegraph says Premiership clubs got £124 million in Government money to bail them out, higher than the initial £59m plan.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2022/08/20/premiership-clubs-took-124m-taxpayer-cash/

Mark Evans (former Saracens & Quins boss) has been giving interviews recently, repeating the message of "Unholy Union" which Michael Aylwin wrote, based on conversations with Evans. Most recently, he's done a Flats & Shanks podcast

He says cumulative losses at Premiership clubs, since the league started, have ballooned to £500m, and we are currently not on course to break even.

While Evans thinks rugby is too big to fail, he can't see how the model can continue without owners coming together, and creating a more viable package. He thinks clubs have allowed costs to increase without justification. Not just player salaries but coaching and admin teams too.

Why can't it cntinue? It's done pretty well fot eh last 25 years.

And how do you change it? How else are the pro clubs going to be funded / run? It's not like the RFU is itching to take them over with all it's spare cash.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 24 Aug 2022, 4:45 pm

Presumably he thinks with the rising cost in wages will lead to clubs pushing too far and going the way of London Welsh. Covid has helped push 2 clubs further to the edge. How do you change it? Clubs being honest with fans and saying we can't compete with others and reduce wage offers.

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Post by geoff999rugby Wed 24 Aug 2022, 7:15 pm

DSTM but their is a rumour started by someone, who use to be in the Gloucester dressing room,
that a Northern Team and a South Western Team are in a bit of difficulties as well.

I have no way of verifying

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Post by Geordie Thu 25 Aug 2022, 8:02 am

Mark Evans has "hinted" there is another club in trouble aswell.

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Post by Margin_Walker Thu 25 Aug 2022, 8:25 am

That mention of a couple more clubs in trouble was in the press a few days ago. Forget which article it was though.

That Mark Evans podcast (on Flats and Shanks) is a good listen. He always makes sense when talking about these issues.

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Post by Geordie Thu 25 Aug 2022, 8:26 am

Hopefully it all gets worked out.

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Post by geoff999rugby Thu 25 Aug 2022, 9:34 am

Following up on the Mark Steele piece he did say he was impressed with how Newcastle have weathered the financial storm
which suggests if a Northern side is in difficulties it is Sale

The rumour I heard was if a South West team were in difficulties it wasn't Gloucester, inspite of the rumour coming from there
We know Exeter have been able to maintain a fairly healthy set of accounts
Unless Craig is pulling the plug, which I don't believe, that point to Bristol as the South-West team

All very speculative to be sure

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Post by Margin_Walker Thu 25 Aug 2022, 9:56 am

Bristol have by far the wealthiest owner in the league.

Unless he's stepping away, I'd be surprised if it were them

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 25 Aug 2022, 10:23 am

Margin_Walker wrote:Bristol have by far the wealthiest owner in the league.

Unless he's stepping away, I'd be surprised if it were them

Yeah he's the Lansdown in Hargreaves Lansdown. Worth just shy of £2bn. In 2020 he personally received £18.6m in dividends. If Bristol are in trouble it's because he wants them to be, running a rugby team is literally peanuts to him as his firm is vastly profitable. He also owns Bristol City and Bristol Flyers.

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Post by geoff999rugby Thu 25 Aug 2022, 10:42 am

Didn't know that

Seems hard to believe any South-West team fits the bill then

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Post by Geordie Thu 25 Aug 2022, 11:12 am

geoff999rugby wrote:Following up on the Mark Steele piece he did say he was impressed with how Newcastle have weathered the financial storm
which suggests if a Northern side is in difficulties it is Sale

The rumour I heard was if a South West team were in difficulties it wasn't Gloucester, inspite of the rumour coming from there
We know Exeter have been able to maintain a fairly healthy set of accounts
Unless Craig is pulling the plug, which I don't believe, that point to Bristol as the South-West team

All very speculative to be sure

We did have some issues last year with England payments etc, but we have a VERY good Chairman in Mr Kurdi and hes trying to make the club as self sustaining as possible....

Obviously that means building from inside with massive use of the academy and few big name signings. But the talent coming through now is very impressive as is the whole academy set up.

One of Deans lasting legacies...

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Post by Geordie Fri 26 Aug 2022, 11:25 am

Just a little side interest...Wasps are playng Ollie Hartley and Odowgu in the centre tonight...one England fans might keep an eye on their development.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 26 Aug 2022, 11:49 am

And I get to watch them live. Quite looking forward to seeing Willis and Barbeary in either half too.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 26 Aug 2022, 11:55 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:For the Falcons

1. Hopes and Expectations on finishing spot
I hope we can move a couple of spots away from the bottom, but new coaching set up, new players in key positions, a relatively young squad...bottom 2 expectations.

2. What you want to see from your team
I want to see us ditch this awful ponderous slow attacking style (if we even had an attack) and give our attacking players the chance to show what we can do. We have pace through out the backs...play with some inventiveness

Also sort out the defence...it was so narrow teams just went wide and scored against us at a canter.

3. Your strengths and Weaknesses
Pack is solid with some England experience now, and the pace in the backs is amongst the best in the league.
Coaching is the biggest weakness...the style and tactics. Dave Walder is trying to mix it up now so this season will be fascinating.

3. Player to watch
Whilst Moroni should be a massive leader and game controller in there now....ill pick Schoeman at 10. IF he is over his bad injury and can really ignite our inept attack then we'll be a different proposition this season...if he hasnt...could be another long season.

4. Academy prospect to watch.
Theres quite a number as the Falcons will be putting a lot of hope / trust in some young inexperienced quality this season, such as highly rated LH Phil Brantingham etc, however ill pick Freddie Lockwood. He got some games at the end of last season, and will be a big player this season. A powerhouse carrier and physical back rower. Could really add a dimension to our carrying in the pack alongside big Carl Fearns who'll be back fit after a season out with a neck injury.

Like the look of Lockwood, the word 'barnstorming' comes to mind. I really want to see him and guys like Guy Pepper come through. Give it a couple of years and we could have a young pack largely derived from the Northeast, Cumbria and North Yorkshire, who also have a sprinkling of international representation.

01. Conor Cade/Phil Brantingham/ Mark Dormer
02. Jamie Blamire/ George McGuigan
03. Trevor Davidson/ Mike Rewcastle
04.
05. Luke Coulston
06. Callum Chick/ Freddie Lockwood
07. Will Welch, Guy Pepper, Gary Graham
08. Freddie Lockwood/ Callum Chick


I'd take a few kickings as long as some of those young lads bed in and play with ambition.
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Post by Geordie Fri 26 Aug 2022, 11:58 am

Mara i think Adam Brocklebank has really stepped up a level. Only 26 and really looking like a strong premiership LH now.

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Post by Poorfour Fri 26 Aug 2022, 1:07 pm

Quins have posted their squad for their pre-season against London Scottish tomorrow:
https://www.quins.co.uk/article/team-to-travel-to-london-scottish-named

Harlequins Starting XV

Simon Kerrod
George Head
Will Collier
George Hammond
Irne Herbst
Jack Kenningham
Will Evans
Tom Lawday – captain
Lewis Gjaltema
Will Edwards
Ross Chisholm
Lennox Anyanwu
Luke Northmore
Nick David
Tyrone Green

Impact Players
Santiago Garcia Botta, Jordan Els, Jack Musk, Tom Osborne, Rhys Litterick, Charlie Matthews, Dino Lamb, Archie White, Luke Wallace, Alex Dombrandt, Jack Stafford, Tommy Allan, Connor Slevin, Jamie Benson, Hayden Hyde, Cadan Murley, Conor Oresanya

The game isn’t that important but what is potentially significant is that it sees the return to action of Kenningham, Lamb, White and Dombrandt, who were all injured at the end of last season. The only injured player missing from the squad (and there are several DR Quins in the Scottish side, too) is Ross Chisholm. Sounds like the physios have worked their magic in the off—season, which is important given we’ll be missing (at least) Smith, Esterhuizen and Care for the start of the season.
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