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Political round up.............

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Post by No name Bertie Wed 03 Aug 2022, 9:36 am

First topic message reminder :

ps the Best leaders surround themselves with the best people.   Not so good leaders surround themselves with those that are not going to challenge them.  So maybe the reason why it appears that there is a poor selection of candidates is partly due to Boris Johnson.  Another reason may be that the leadership qualities and the general competence levels of elected mps has declined.
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Post by Derek Smalls Tue 25 Oct 2022, 1:39 pm

Derek Smalls wrote:Just a pleasant thought to add,  Rees  Mogg is doubtful to get a cabinet position, and for that I think the country should celebrate.
Let's hope Patel is nowhere near power ever again,too

Three big turds flushed away in two months!

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Post by Samo Tue 25 Oct 2022, 2:11 pm

Rees-Mogg and Brandon Lewis both resign from cabinet. Shapps expected to be moved to JRM’s old position, which frees up the Home Secretary position.

I’ve heard that its been earmarked for Dominic Raab (dear lord) but there is also rumblings that Braverman could make a return.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 25 Oct 2022, 3:37 pm

Miserable speech from Sunak to begin his Premiership.

'Right now our country is facing a profound economic crisis' - yes, because of you, Sunak.

'The aftermath of Covid still lingers' - incorrect, the aftermath of lockdown still lingers, and the £400bn borrowed to pay for it, much of it wasted on nonsense like Track and Trace, or fraudulent contracts, during which Sunak was Chancellor.

'But some mistakes were made [by Truss]' - I imagine this will be the theme of Sunak's tenure as PM. When challenged about economic malaise, he will heap the blame on Truss, even though he is the one responsible (and Johnson) during his two years at no.11.

'I have been elected as leader of my party, and your Prime Minister, in part, to fix them.' - not actually elected as either. The last time the Tory Party had an election, Sunak was soundly defeated.

'difficult decisions to come.' - tax hikes (even with the burden already the highest since the 1940s), spending cuts and reduced support for the poorest. Then, if he's still around, about two-three months out from the GE, tax cuts and spending promises will be announced.

Followed by some empty words and meaningless, vacuous slogans. Sunak's term begins somewhere between 25% and 39% behind Labour, but his immediate concern is ensuring his position as leader of the Tory Party is safe.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Tue 25 Oct 2022, 3:52 pm

In shock news today, the UK still has the same Chancellor that it had last week.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 25 Oct 2022, 4:21 pm

Hunt's the one running the show, that's why all three leadership contenders pledged to keep him as Chancellor.

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Post by GSC Tue 25 Oct 2022, 4:29 pm

Suella Braverman back in cabinet a week after resigning for a security breach.

Wise move by Sunak to placate the moron wing of the party
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Post by Samo Tue 25 Oct 2022, 5:03 pm

GSC wrote:Suella Braverman back in cabinet a week after resigning for a security breach.

Wise move by Sunak to placate the moron wing of the party

You cant really blame him for the state of his cabinet, theres no talent left in UKIP the Conservatives since all the compentant ones who didnt back Brexit were purged by Johnson.

Seeing as Sunak was one of those championing Brexit its almost entirely self inflicted. Its just a shame the rest of us have to suffer because of it.

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Post by GSC Tue 25 Oct 2022, 5:20 pm

The Truss government set a high bar but starting yours talking about a government of accountability and integrity, then bringing back Braverman 6 days after she had to resign for breaching ministerial code, because she endorsed him over Boris is top drawer from Rishi
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Post by Pr4wn Tue 25 Oct 2022, 5:22 pm

I also feel there's a prevailing public sentiment that Braverman is... well... evil?

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Post by Duty281 Tue 25 Oct 2022, 5:31 pm

GSC wrote:The Truss government set a high bar but starting yours talking about a government of accountability and integrity, then bringing back Braverman 6 days after she had to resign for breaching ministerial code, because she endorsed him over Boris is top drawer from Rishi

I imagine the breach of ministerial code was either made-up or very minor, just used as an excuse by Truss to remove Braverman. Braverman did back Sunak, and she was also key in bringing Truss' short-lived Premiership down, so I reckon this is Sunak's way of saying 'thanks'.

Braverman appears to be very strong on wanting to stop illegal immigration while Truss wasn't, hence their key divide. It'll be interesting to see what happens with regard to this now Sunak is PM.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Tue 25 Oct 2022, 6:00 pm

Anyone having tofu for tea?

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Post by Pr4wn Tue 25 Oct 2022, 6:00 pm

WOKERATI ALERT

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Post by lostinwales Wed 26 Oct 2022, 1:35 pm

Duty281 wrote:
GSC wrote:The Truss government set a high bar but starting yours talking about a government of accountability and integrity, then bringing back Braverman 6 days after she had to resign for breaching ministerial code, because she endorsed him over Boris is top drawer from Rishi

I imagine the breach of ministerial code was either made-up or very minor, just used as an excuse by Truss to remove Braverman. Braverman did back Sunak, and she was also key in bringing Truss' short-lived Premiership down, so I reckon this is Sunak's way of saying 'thanks'.

Braverman appears to be very strong on wanting to stop illegal immigration while Truss wasn't, hence their key divide. It'll be interesting to see what happens with regard to this now Sunak is PM.

That is what she's said, but there are suggestions that it was more significant than that, plus rumors that she is a bit slap dash in general.

It was not a good appointment by any stretch, especially so close to her previous departure from the same position. She's also not turned up to answer the urgent question on the matter from Cooper.

She has caught the media attention though, to the extent that nobody is talking about the return of the likes of Williamson to the position of minister without a clue, and Raaaab to minister without a clue about justice...

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 27 Oct 2022, 11:17 am

Duty281 wrote:The Conservative Party has become so addicted to serial regicide that some of its MPs are predicting Mr Sunak might struggle even to last as long as Liz Truss, and will be forced out like his three predecessors, unable to marshal the considerable majority built in 2019.

The Boris Johnson “ultras” in the party, like Sir Christopher Chope and Nadine Dorries, are muttering about rebellions, raising the prospect of an “ungovernable” Conservative Party giving the next leader no choice but to call an immediate general election, which Labour would almost certainly win.

With a working majority of 71, the new Tory leader could be brought down by a hardcore of just 36 right-wing rebels if they decided to consistently vote with Labour and block the Government’s ability to legislate.

What's the source for that, Duty? I assume you didn't just put your own words in italics! OK

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Post by Duty281 Thu 27 Oct 2022, 11:38 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Duty281 wrote:The Conservative Party has become so addicted to serial regicide that some of its MPs are predicting Mr Sunak might struggle even to last as long as Liz Truss, and will be forced out like his three predecessors, unable to marshal the considerable majority built in 2019.

The Boris Johnson “ultras” in the party, like Sir Christopher Chope and Nadine Dorries, are muttering about rebellions, raising the prospect of an “ungovernable” Conservative Party giving the next leader no choice but to call an immediate general election, which Labour would almost certainly win.

With a working majority of 71, the new Tory leader could be brought down by a hardcore of just 36 right-wing rebels if they decided to consistently vote with Labour and block the Government’s ability to legislate.

What's the source for that, Duty? I assume you didn't just put your own words in italics! OK

This is a fair assumption. It was in the Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/24/rishi-sunaks-colleagues-already-sharpening-axe-readiness-another/

Spoiler:

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Post by mountain man Thu 27 Oct 2022, 11:50 am

I doubt that very much. Conservative party had so much turmoil last few months that Sunak seen as calming influence even if he's not everyones choice. I'd be surprised if there's a revolt against him and in all likelyhood he'll be PM and leader until next GE. And that won't be until term ends as not even most staunch anti Sunak MP will want a GE as they know Tories highly likely will lose.
Financial markets have settled a bit since he was elected, any more unrest in party be an utter disaster.

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Post by GSC Thu 27 Oct 2022, 12:09 pm

For the Tory party to rebel now would probably be party suicide. The next leader would have to go to the country for a mandate, else the party is ungovernable.

They'd get obliterated in any GE, and out of power it would probably just splinter into various factions. So they'll behave for a while, if only for their own self interest
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Post by JuliusHMarx Thu 27 Oct 2022, 12:12 pm

It would take a Braverman than me to predict another Tory rebellion.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 27 Oct 2022, 12:49 pm

Even in the context of the last few months, I find it incredible that Jake Berry would just openly state that there had been multiple breaches of the ministerial code. Not the usual anonymous briefings, but the man who a couple of days ago was chairman of the party just coming right out and saying it. They don't even want unity at this point, do they?

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Post by Samo Mon 31 Oct 2022, 5:37 pm

Yvette Cooper making absolute mince meat out of Braverman in the commons. The longer Braverman stays in her position the worse it will be for Sunak, but thats the price you pay when you make a deal with the devil.

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Post by BamBam Mon 31 Oct 2022, 7:33 pm

The scummy little rat calling migrants an invasion is a particular low point even for her

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Post by Samo Tue 01 Nov 2022, 6:09 am

BamBam wrote:The scummy little rat calling migrants an invasion is a particular low point even for her

We’ve long gone past UKIP and the BNP, this is full blown National Front type rhetoric. Its disgusting and dangerous. Especially a couple of days removed from a migrant processing centre being firebombed.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 01 Nov 2022, 1:46 pm

Matt Hancock is a disgrace and further besmirches the low reputation of the political class. The Tories have removed the whip, justifiably so.

Disgraceful that in situations such as these constituents have no democratic method of recalling their MP.

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Post by Samo Tue 01 Nov 2022, 3:58 pm

Interesting that Hancock has the whip removed while they had no problem with Johnson going to the US for a $150k speech and swanning off on holiday to the Caribbean. While parliament was sitting.

If I had to guess I would say Sunak has an axe to grind with Hancock.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Wed 02 Nov 2022, 10:16 am

Badenoch having a dig at the OBR for being wrong on their forecasts is delightful. Firstly, it is a forecast. A calculation based on estimations. When I worked in a corporate environment, the only consistency you'd find in forecasts is that they are always wrong. Secondly, you're in no position to criticise after recent events.

But don't worry, she is keen to work alongside the OBR to make the process better. I'm sure they are totally jazzed about that.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Derek Smalls Wed 02 Nov 2022, 10:26 am

Braverman has obviously been an advocate of A.J.Ayer, who put forward the proposition that a proposition not based on certitude is null and void of legitimacy.
She turns to herself as the true centre of truth and authority.

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Post by Samo Wed 02 Nov 2022, 12:13 pm

Christ Sunak really is terrible at this PMQ's thing isnt he? All he has is Brexit and Corbyn.

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Post by Pr4wn Fri 04 Nov 2022, 6:11 pm

The Governor of the Bank of England, Andrew Bailey, has said that the Bank was forced to step in "quickly" and "decisively" to mitigate a "very real threat to financial stability" after the disastrous mini-budget.

"We certainly reached a point where markets were very unstable, and these were core markets, this is the Government bond market, which is in many ways the most core of all"

"And it was becoming unstable and it was affecting ... pension funds for instance, and how they were operating. Our worry was that when you get into that situation, this can easily spread very rapidly and then you have a huge job on your hands to get it back under control. So we had to step in quickly and we had to step in quite decisively."

Asked if the UK was days, even hours, away from potential total meltdown, Mr Bailey said: "I think at that point when we intervened, I can tell you that the messages we were getting from the markets were that it was hours."

Still, Truss lost her bottle, eh? Just when this was being hailed as a "True Conservative Budget", this school of thought gets exposed as exactly what it is.

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Post by Lowlandbrit Sat 05 Nov 2022, 8:15 am

Pr4wn wrote:Just when this was being hailed as a "True Conservative Budget", this school of thought gets exposed as exactly what it is.
The problem with this discussion is that those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Economic forecasts are notoriously inaccurate, but the models underpin the economy, which makes it almost impossible to test alternatives (allowing supporters to remain convinced they're better). Same thing you saw with Corbyn, but with the roles reversed regarding the forecasts.

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Post by No name Bertie Tue 08 Nov 2022, 9:44 am

COP27 and could Rishi Sunak be an anti-industry pro green ideologue?  Is he going to apologize on behalf of Britain for the Industrial Revolution and send billions of British pounds to Asia and elsewhere for climate change reparations?  Will those billions find their way to his father in law and relatives who seem to have a strong involvement in the green industry.
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Post by Samo Tue 08 Nov 2022, 8:23 pm

Gavin Williamson resigns following claims about past bullying and conduct.

Good riddance. Another one who always seems to fail upward.

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 10 Nov 2022, 3:57 pm

Samo wrote:Gavin Williamson resigns following claims about past bullying and conduct.

Good riddance. Another one who always seems to fail upward.
Have to admit that while I think Williamson is the very definition of a talentless, over-promoted buffoon, this 'bullying' is almost laughable unless more comes out. So he's an angry berk who tells people to 'jump out a window' etc? Good grief. This is politicians we're talking about here. They all swear at each other, apparently all the time. Are they all snowflakes? Honestly, I actually thought this was news until I saw some of the things he was alleged to have said. Hasn't the country got more important concerns than some utterly pathetic 'bullying' allegation by a non-entity? No wonder we're FUBAR.
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Post by JuliusHMarx Thu 10 Nov 2022, 4:11 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Samo wrote:Gavin Williamson resigns following claims about past bullying and conduct.

Good riddance. Another one who always seems to fail upward.
Have to admit that while I think Williamson is the very definition of a talentless, over-promoted buffoon, this 'bullying' is almost laughable unless more comes out. So he's an angry berk who tells people to 'jump out a window' etc? Good grief. This is politicians we're talking about here. They all swear at each other, apparently all the time. Are they all snowflakes? Honestly, I actually thought this was news until I saw some of the things he was alleged to have said. Hasn't the country got more important concerns than some utterly pathetic 'bullying' allegation by a non-entity? No wonder we're FUBAR.

Go slit your throat.

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Post by GSC Thu 10 Nov 2022, 4:16 pm

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect government ministers, especially those in cabinet or high ranking positions to act professionally. Excusing it is just lowering the bar
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Post by JDizzle Thu 10 Nov 2022, 5:04 pm

Gavin Williamson has a negative approval score amongst Tory members. An incredible effort. He must have some incredible dirt on Sunak.

And I think there are probably slightly bigger reasons why the country is FUBAR than because people believe Gavin Williamson shouldn’t be allowed to go around telling staff beneath him to slit their own throat. He should have never got a job in the first place and it’s right he’s gone.

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Post by No name Bertie Thu 10 Nov 2022, 5:07 pm

UK faces 50 billion pound fiscal hole, government sources say

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-faces-50-billion-pound-fiscal-hole-government-sources-say-2022-11-07/

British finance minister Jeremy Hunt will seek to fill a 50 billion pound ($57 billion) hole in the country's public finances with around 30 billion pounds of spending cuts and 20 billion in tax rises, two government sources said on Monday.

Hunt is due to present a fiscal statement to parliament on Nov. 17.
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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 11 Nov 2022, 11:46 am

GSC wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable to expect government ministers, especially those in cabinet or high ranking positions to act professionally. Excusing it is just lowering the bar
I agree, but this case so far is hardly worth making a mountain out of a molehill, is it? Then again, that's the level of our politics. If this is what happens to Williamson re. this issue, and it were applied to other MPs w/o fear or favour, I doubt we'd have very many in Parliament. Probably just me...
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Post by GSC Fri 11 Nov 2022, 3:30 pm

If they do then they are no great loss. No wonder Boris managed to rise so high if those are acceptable standards
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Post by Pr4wn Fri 11 Nov 2022, 8:12 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
GSC wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable to expect government ministers, especially those in cabinet or high ranking positions to act professionally. Excusing it is just lowering the bar
I agree, but this case so far is hardly worth making a mountain out of a molehill, is it? Then again, that's the level of our politics. If this is what happens to Williamson re. this issue, and it were applied to other MPs w/o fear or favour, I doubt we'd have very many in Parliament. Probably just me...

If I did this in my job I would be sacked and never taken back by the company I work for. If a civil servant did it, the same thing would likely happen to them.

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Post by Pr4wn Mon 14 Nov 2022, 5:55 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/14/brexit-a-major-cause-of-uks-return-to-austerity-says-senior-economist

“The UK economy as a whole has been permanently damaged by Brexit,” Michael Saunders, who was an external member of the central bank’s monetary policy committee, said in an interview with Bloomberg TV.

“It’s reduced the economy’s potential output significantly, eroded business investment,” he said, adding: “If we hadn’t had Brexit, we probably wouldn’t be talking about an austerity budget this week.”

Bloomin' remoaners, eh? Always talking Britain down.

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Post by Samo Tue 15 Nov 2022, 8:56 am

Has he tried believing in Britain a bit more?

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Post by Pr4wn Tue 15 Nov 2022, 7:28 pm

It's funny. Duty is rapid quick when it comes to posting about his, albeit bogus, claims of an impending Republican majority in both the House and the Senate but when Brexit needs someone to stick up for it, he's nowhere to be seen these days.

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Post by Pr4wn Fri 18 Nov 2022, 2:21 am

So, rather predictably, the ultra-wealthy made it through today unscathed.

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Post by Samo Thu 29 Dec 2022, 1:00 pm

An unprecedented cost of living crisis, strikes up and down the country and a growing resentment of the people in charge to the point the Tories are facing an election wipe out.

Call me a cynic or a pessimist, but I cant shake the feeling that the Tories are going to do as little as possible to sort this mess out because they know the jig is up, so they'll just leave as big a mess as possible for the incoming Labour government.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 15 Jan 2023, 1:08 pm

It's still recoverable for the Tories, but they'll need a year of political stability (ha!) and for Russia to be defeated. Russia being defeated could lead to a mood of national optimism in the UK, with inflation and energy bills coming down. Sunak will be hoping this winter was the worst of everything and that the national picture will look sunnier in 2024. He'd probably be done for if there needed to be an election by May 2023, but he's got another two years (almost) for things to improve.

The polls are very interesting because of the amount of don't knows and Reform UK voters that can be squeezed by the Tories.

Techne - 14% Labour lead, 11% don't know, 5% Reform.
YouGov - 14% Labour lead, 17% don't know, 5% Reform.
Opinium - 16% Labour lead, 18% don't know, 4% Reform.

Many of the don't knows are 2019 Tory voters, presently hesitant because of the ineptitude of Starmer, who has failed to win over enough ex-Tory voters (so far) in order to make it a slam dunk. Currently Starmer is only leading Sunak by a few % points in the h2h polling.

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Post by Pr4wn Sun 15 Jan 2023, 8:33 pm

Sunak just doesn't feel like a leader. He comes across more as some KPMG administrator that's been brought in to sell off the assets of a company that's gone bust.

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Post by Samo Mon 23 Jan 2023, 10:37 am

Quiet weekend for the Tories.

Sunak gets a second FPN, this time for not wearing a seatbelt. Not the most severe offence but its remarkable he’s managed to get two while holding the two most powerful offices in Government.

Nadhim Zahawi was investigated for potential tax fraud, and had to pay a multi-million pound settlement fee - whilst Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Boris Johnson used millionaire pal and Tory donor Richard Sharp as a guarantor on a loan for £800k, weeks before he recommended him for the vacant BBC director general position. And old habits die hard for Johnson, as soon as this bad news broke he buggered off to Ukraine.

And finally, whistleblowers have revealed a terrifying level of child abductions by traffickers happening in the south coast at Home Office designsted migrant hotels. One in Sussex has seen over 600 unaccompanied child migrants pass through in the past 18 months. Of that, 136 have been reported missing - with 79 still unaccounted for.

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Post by lostinwales Mon 23 Jan 2023, 11:25 am

Pr4wn wrote:Sunak just doesn't feel like a leader. He comes across more as some KPMG administrator that's been brought in to sell off the assets of a company that's gone bust.

No idea how truthful but saw a rumor that he asked Zahawi to resign and Zahawi said no.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 23 Jan 2023, 11:35 am

It shows how weak Sunak is within the parliamentary party that he doesn't feel he can sack Zahawi. He needs all the friends he can get (see also: Suella Braverman).

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 27 Jan 2023, 4:57 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It shows how weak Sunak is within the parliamentary party that he doesn't feel he can sack Zahawi. He needs all the friends he can get (see also: Suella Braverman).
Presumably, you'd expect there to be an investigation proving he'd actually done something wrong (as opposed to news stories, no matter how 'believable') before the PM gives him the heave-ho?
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