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At last, this has been a long time coming.

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Brendan
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Post by LordDowlais Wed 28 Sep 2022, 10:28 am

At last the URC has decided to sort out the issues with officiating in the league rather than leave it to the individual unions. I have said all along something like this needs to happen because the of the issues perceived with supposedly national bias and the accusations that go with it.

What a breath of fresh air this could turn out to be, Nigel Owens, George Clancy, Stuart Berry and Neil Patterson are all going to be on an independent panel assessing the performances of all the referees in the league. How this has taken so long to do ? I also like that they appointed Steve Scott to help the referees with the set piece, where there is too much of the dark arts going on.

Take a peak if you want, it's WOL though:-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/nigel-owens-handed-key-new-25108369

This has been a long time coming, and for once, there is something good to talk about when it comes to the URC. thumbsup

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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 28 Sep 2022, 11:06 am

What makes you think that that cohort of abysmal referees will sort out the officiating?

The current head of refs for the URC dismissed the awful high shot on Josh Adams (which was a yellow card) yesterday as the correct decision. The whole set up is appalling and I wouldn't be surprised if a lawsuit is filed one day. Players will be more likely to suffer brain injruies in the URC due to the negligence of outcomes like yesterday.

It's abhorrent, and those 4 will only do 1 thing, and that's protect their mates, just like Tappe Henning did.

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Post by RiscaGame Wed 28 Sep 2022, 11:35 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:What makes you think that that cohort of abysmal referees will sort out the officiating?

The current head of refs for the URC dismissed the awful high shot on Josh Adams (which was a yellow card) yesterday as the correct decision. The whole set up is appalling and I wouldn't be surprised if a lawsuit is filed one day. Players will be more likely to suffer brain injruies in the URC due to the negligence of outcomes like yesterday.

It's abhorrent, and those 4 will only do 1 thing, and that's protect their mates, just like Tappe Henning did.

Agree with all of that.

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Post by Welshmushroom Wed 28 Sep 2022, 11:46 am

Great change

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 28 Sep 2022, 12:40 pm

I'd ask the question of which set of refs is your gold standard that others should copy to start off with. Think it's always a good idea to have a set of people to review and give feedback so a positive move. I'd echo that it was a mistake to let the hit on Adams go so lightly punished, but I place a great deal of blame on WR being so wish washy. Have to say as well I don't like the following comments from Henning:

'We also understand what is a rugby incident. In the Ospreys-Lions game, there was head contact between Alun Wyn Jones and the Lions No 9. People may ask what is the difference between that and what happened to Bundee Aki? Well, Alun Wyn was driving through, he didn’t come from a distance, he didn’t identify a target and recklessly go into the target and didn’t care about making contact with the head. There was no opportunity for Alun Wyn to identify a target or to avoid that target. It was a clash of heads, but it was still dangerous and he was accordingly penalised (with no card issued).'

I get the point he was trying to make but recklessness is something that should be being stopped.

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Post by RiscaGame Wed 28 Sep 2022, 12:46 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'd ask the question of which set of refs is your gold standard that others should copy to start off with. Think it's always a good idea to have a set of people to review and give feedback so a positive move.

I guess a few perceived Owens as a great ref. Maybe some regarded "Clown shoes" Clancy quite highly too.

I guess URC are quite limited with who they can appoint too. The poor Italians not being represented though.

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Post by Unclear Wed 28 Sep 2022, 2:09 pm

I think it is great move, even if there are questions about the abilities of those chosen. Anything to improve the standard of officiating has to be good. It is a fair question on where the "gold standard" resides, I don't watch enough rugby from around the world to be able to give an informed answer. There certainly seem to be increasing complaints about officiating in the PRL, but this could just be because posts praising good refs see a little infrequent on here.

But we cannot let the best be the enemy of the better, refereeing standards need to improve in the URC (arguably across the board as well), and this can only help.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 28 Sep 2022, 2:11 pm

The question is not necessarily aimed at those refs in your existing grouping, would just be interested to know where this group of refs are who are so much better? I have my preferred refs but that's generally as they concentrate on the things I want to see and have good communication. I'm also painfully aware not everyone likes the ones I do, Barnes, Adamson, Pearce. It's also a question to make 1 or 2 ponder that perhaps the gripes people have are pretty standard everywhere; and also that people love to lay blame solely at the feet of officials, and that it's never the players fault.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 28 Sep 2022, 4:58 pm

I watch quite alot of rugby from around the world. All of it has moments of officiating that is sub standard. But I've never seen anything as downright laughably bad as the URC.

Check Ulsters TMO try on Saturday for a test case in how not to use the TMO.

And what's worse is that Henning, the referees chief has assessed the performances so far as "8 out of 10". That doesn't just scream of incompetence, that is zero hope that anything will get better becasue they actually think the standard is good.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 28 Sep 2022, 5:20 pm

So which league has it right then.

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Post by Intotouch Wed 28 Sep 2022, 8:04 pm

Hmmm. It’s good in theory, let’s see what the practise is like.

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Post by PhilBB Thu 29 Sep 2022, 11:32 am

URC: we want you to do this
Refs: erm, ok. I'll check with my boss
URC: errr, no need to do that. Just follow us
Refs: yeah, but we don't work for you

Yet another awful idea, powered by the refereeing disease of cronyism and groupthink, where four crap refs from the past pass on their "ideas" to a new generation, whilst protecting their own backsides in the process.

Owens boasted about having never read the law book. You only have to listen to his 'commentary' during live matches to comprehend how the media love in that over inflated his reputation has, ultimately, backfired on him.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 29 Sep 2022, 11:43 am

Isn't that a quote taken out of context and slightly twisted? Seem to remember he said he's never read it cover to cover with the point being that you need a touch of understanding or empathy to game to allow flow if the play isn't materially impacted by a broken law.

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Post by PhilBB Thu 29 Sep 2022, 11:46 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Isn't that a quote taken out of context and slightly twisted?

No, but you crack on being contrary
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Post by RugbyFan100 Thu 29 Sep 2022, 11:53 am

“Seeing that you ask, no I have never read the law book in my life, it’s disastrous for a referee to know that law book too well,”

Awful, awful referee.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 29 Sep 2022, 11:54 am

So it wasn't a quote on reading cover to cover and you believe he's never read the laws, nothing to do with viewing the game situation? You really sure?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 29 Sep 2022, 11:55 am

Ah. So its another quote with the same context. Anyone thinking Owens was awful, well it's the same as the Irish guys not liking Barnes: an opinion but not one I hold highly.

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Post by PhilBB Thu 29 Sep 2022, 11:57 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ah. So its another quote with the same context. Anyone thinking Owens was awful, well it's the same as the Irish guys not liking Barnes: an opinion but not one I hold highly.

Well, that one proves that, then.
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Post by PhilBB Thu 29 Sep 2022, 11:57 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:“Seeing that you ask, no I have never read the law book in my life, it’s disastrous for a referee to know that law book too well,”

Awful, awful referee.

So the exact quote is as I wrote it. Well, who'd have thought it?
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 29 Sep 2022, 12:25 pm

Different quote but clearly not expressing what you made out. Do you really think he doesn't know the laws or do you think that quote is aimed at the fact that refs will ignore infringements that they feel are immaterial?

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Post by carpet baboon Thu 29 Sep 2022, 12:33 pm

There are clearly some people who will never like the URC or anything they do.
But I'm glad they are here to share thier opinions

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Post by PhilBB Thu 29 Sep 2022, 2:33 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Different quote but clearly not expressing what you made out. Do you really think he doesn't know the laws or do you think that quote is aimed at the fact that refs will ignore infringements that they feel are immaterial?

Anybody who knew the laws whilst watching Owens referee would have known that either he didn't know them, as per his own admission, or he ignored them when he fancied.

Regardless, the other three on the list are equally as bad and all are equally powerless.
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Post by PhilBB Thu 29 Sep 2022, 2:33 pm

carpet baboon wrote:There are clearly some people who will never like the URC or anything they do.
But I'm glad they are here to share thier opinions

That's not true. I like how the URC list attendance figures on their app.


But not on their website.....
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 29 Sep 2022, 2:36 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Different quote but clearly not expressing what you made out. Do you really think he doesn't know the laws or do you think that quote is aimed at the fact that refs will ignore infringements that they feel are immaterial?

Anybody who knew the laws whilst watching Owens referee would have known that either he didn't know them, as per his own admission, or he ignored them when he fancied.

Regardless, the other three on the list are equally as bad and all are equally powerless.

The latter, exactly like I said. And I think most refs do.

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Post by PhilBB Thu 29 Sep 2022, 2:38 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Different quote but clearly not expressing what you made out. Do you really think he doesn't know the laws or do you think that quote is aimed at the fact that refs will ignore infringements that they feel are immaterial?

Anybody who knew the laws whilst watching Owens referee would have known that either he didn't know them, as per his own admission, or he ignored them when he fancied.

Regardless, the other three on the list are equally as bad and all are equally powerless.

The latter, exactly like I said. And I think most refs do.

That latter is your subjective take on things, by the way.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 29 Sep 2022, 2:41 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Different quote but clearly not expressing what you made out. Do you really think he doesn't know the laws or do you think that quote is aimed at the fact that refs will ignore infringements that they feel are immaterial?

Anybody who knew the laws whilst watching Owens referee would have known that either he didn't know them, as per his own admission, or he ignored them when he fancied.

Regardless, the other three on the list are equally as bad and all are equally powerless.

The latter, exactly like I said. And I think most refs do.

That latter is your subjective take on things, by the way.

Well I'm just going by what he said. I think all refs ignore broken rules to a greater or lesser extent; don't you?

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Post by Brendan Thu 29 Sep 2022, 6:12 pm

I think it's a good move.  The best players don't make the best coaches and the same applies to refs.  Just because some didn't like how they put the knowledge into practice doesn't mean they didn't know the laws.

Like with Rynal, people weren't upset that he got the law wrong it was how dare he apply that law.  Maybe we are to hard on refs because there are so many laws broken (gernally at breakdowns) and they had a second to deciede who has got the more unfair advantage or is it just best to play on.

Who among us can make sure the binding rule is followed, that everyone comes through the gate, that everyone is supporting their own weight or rolling away, that defenders aren't slowing the ball down and the attackers aren't cleaning beyond the ruck.  All while keeping an eye that the scrumhalf is using the ball and no holding or interfering is going on.  And while doing all this make sure you aren't in the way and you see everything that the 10 cameras can see.

Let's see how it goes, it's what people have called for so let it bed in.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 03 Oct 2022, 10:09 am

Thought this would be an apt place to speak about the standards of officiating over the weekend, but are any others unhappy with it ?

One case in point for me, was right at the start of the Cardiff and Lions. About 30/40 seconds in, a Lions player leads with the forearm to the neck face area of Timani clearly knocking him off his feet and he had to go off the field for tests, yet nothing was given.

The rugby I watched this weekend was just stop start all the time. steam

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Post by PhilBB Mon 03 Oct 2022, 3:40 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Thought this would be an apt place to speak about the standards of officiating over the weekend, but are any others unhappy with it ?

One case in point for me, was right at the start of the Cardiff and Lions. About 30/40 seconds in, a Lions player leads with the forearm to the neck face area of Timani clearly knocking him off his feet and he had to go off the field for tests, yet nothing was given.

The rugby I watched this weekend was just stop start all the time. steam

Sam GW gave a penalty try without consulting his assistants, despite the maul being clearly pulled down by a Lions player. The TMO, unsurprisingly, didn't bring this to the attention of SGW

"Hey, Sam, you know that match turning penalty try and yellow card you've just given?"
"Yep"
"You've ballsed it up, completely. Have a look at this footage"

The above will never happen, so the role of the TMO is already weakened.

SGW as abysmal, as bad as Busby was (again) later in the weekend when he gave a try and yellow card after a clear forward pass and a Benetton player jumping over a static tackler. Another key decision to award momentum to the eventual winners.

Glasgow, on the other hand, looked completely ordinary when they don't have the referee on their side.

This league does very, very little right but the officiating of it is the thing it does most poorly of all.
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Post by LordDowlais Tue 04 Oct 2022, 10:01 am

Strangely everyone is silent on this subject. Whistle

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Post by mountain man Tue 04 Oct 2022, 10:23 am

Nigel Owens was a good ref but he made mistakes as do most if not all. He was a favourite of many due to his personality as much as his ability as a ref. Now he's retired his Welsh bias definitely showing!
Best refs (imo) are Luke Pearce and Craig Evans. Mike Adamson was particularly poor last season I thought, not seen him this year as yet.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 04 Oct 2022, 11:30 am

The Benetton try versus the Scarlets is the funniest decision I have seen for years. I genuinely laughed out loud. That's what the officiating in this 'league' is. Utterly laughabe.

3 metre Forward pass and a jump into a tackle by the Benetton player.....TMO gives a try and a yellow card for the Scarlets defender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXnNHyMErXY&t=249s

No doubt the URC rated it as a 8/10 performance by the officials

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 04 Oct 2022, 11:39 am

That YC decision was a shocker.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 04 Oct 2022, 12:13 pm

I have no doubt that it literally changed the result of the match. Although the scarlets were shocking so didn't really deserve to win.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 04 Oct 2022, 1:07 pm

By the conversation there with the ref, although for some reason the commentators choose to speak over it, the TMO is only asked to check the tackle, unless there is further conversation within the wider match and not the edited highlights. For me the tackle, off the ball without arms is about a yellow, with your mitigation of the player jumping. The pass could have been given but refs will call those n the field as you saw in the Prem last week with Exeter.

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Post by Oakdene Tue 04 Oct 2022, 3:17 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:The Benetton try versus the Scarlets is the funniest decision I have seen for years. I genuinely laughed out loud. That's what the officiating in this 'league' is. Utterly laughabe.

3 metre Forward pass and a jump into a tackle by the Benetton player.....TMO gives a try and a yellow card for the Scarlets defender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXnNHyMErXY&t=249s

No doubt the URC rated it as a 8/10 performance  by the officials

When I saw the yellow card being given & then the try, I gave up watching.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 04 Oct 2022, 3:19 pm

Oakdene wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:The Benetton try versus the Scarlets is the funniest decision I have seen for years. I genuinely laughed out loud. That's what the officiating in this 'league' is. Utterly laughabe.

3 metre Forward pass and a jump into a tackle by the Benetton player.....TMO gives a try and a yellow card for the Scarlets defender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXnNHyMErXY&t=249s

No doubt the URC rated it as a 8/10 performance  by the officials

When I saw the yellow card being given & then the try, I gave up watching.

Yep, the officiating is turning people off the game.

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Post by Oakdene Tue 04 Oct 2022, 3:41 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:The Benetton try versus the Scarlets is the funniest decision I have seen for years. I genuinely laughed out loud. That's what the officiating in this 'league' is. Utterly laughabe.

3 metre Forward pass and a jump into a tackle by the Benetton player.....TMO gives a try and a yellow card for the Scarlets defender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXnNHyMErXY&t=249s

No doubt the URC rated it as a 8/10 performance  by the officials

When I saw the yellow card being given & then the try, I gave up watching.

Yep, the officiating is turning people off the game.

We were in the club & even my mate who's an Ospreys fan called it forward & we were relieved to see the officials go to the TV screen to have a look. We couldn't hear the commentary as the club was busy & loud but when I saw a yellow card I thought it was going to be given for a Benneton player being chopsy or something.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 04 Oct 2022, 3:55 pm

Oakdene wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:The Benetton try versus the Scarlets is the funniest decision I have seen for years. I genuinely laughed out loud. That's what the officiating in this 'league' is. Utterly laughabe.

3 metre Forward pass and a jump into a tackle by the Benetton player.....TMO gives a try and a yellow card for the Scarlets defender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXnNHyMErXY&t=249s

No doubt the URC rated it as a 8/10 performance  by the officials

When I saw the yellow card being given & then the try, I gave up watching.

Yep, the officiating is turning people off the game.

We were in the club & even my mate who's an Ospreys fan called it forward & we were relieved to see the officials go to the TV screen to have a look. We couldn't hear the commentary as the club was busy & loud but when I saw a yellow card I thought it was going to be given for a Benneton player being chopsy or something.

The officials cause the game to be very stop start, I swear out of the 80mins, only about 40mins is actually rugby and that is even with the clock being stopped. steam

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 04 Oct 2022, 4:03 pm

Also, lets not talk about the cheap shot on Gareth Anscombe that has probably put him out for a few weeks. censored

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Tue 04 Oct 2022, 7:37 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:The Benetton try versus the Scarlets is the funniest decision I have seen for years. I genuinely laughed out loud. That's what the officiating in this 'league' is. Utterly laughabe.

3 metre Forward pass and a jump into a tackle by the Benetton player.....TMO gives a try and a yellow card for the Scarlets defender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXnNHyMErXY&t=249s

No doubt the URC rated it as a 8/10 performance  by the officials

When I saw the yellow card being given & then the try, I gave up watching.

Yep, the officiating is turning people off the game.

We were in the club & even my mate who's an Ospreys fan called it forward & we were relieved to see the officials go to the TV screen to have a look. We couldn't hear the commentary as the club was busy & loud but when I saw a yellow card I thought it was going to be given for a Benneton player being chopsy or something.

The officials cause the game to be very stop start, I swear out of the 80mins, only about 40mins is actually rugby and that is even with the clock being stopped. steam
That's incredibly generous, it's more like 20mins. This is a problem with all of rugby, not just the URC.

https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/sir-clive-woodward-admits-recent-super-league-clash-left-him-questioning-the-quality-of-rugby-union-59933/

LeinsterFan4life

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At last, this has been a long time coming. Empty Re: At last, this has been a long time coming.

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