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Scotland AI thread

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Post by Highland Shaun Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:54 pm

First topic message reminder :

Results in aggregate this year for the national team were:

5 February 2022 - Scotland 20–17 England
12 February 2022 - Wales 20–17 Scotland
26 February 2022 - Scotland 17–36 France
12 March 2022 - Italy 22–33 Scotland
19 March 2022 - Ireland 26–5 Scotland
2 July 2022 - Argentina 26–18 Scotland
9 July 2022 - Argentina 6–29 Scotland
16 July 2022 - Argentina 34–31 Scotland
29 October 2022 - Scotland 15–16 Australia
5 November 2022 - Scotland 28–12 Fiji
13 November 2022 - Scotland 23–31 New Zealand
19 November 2022 - Scotland 52–29 Argentina

P 12 W 5 L 7
Erm

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Post by demosthenes Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:49 pm

BK is the form Scottish stand-off playing in Scotland just now. But that's all. He is at best the third best if everyone is available; and I rate Thomson higher if fit and on form.

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Post by tigertattie Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:52 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Surely Finn would never have been playing in this game even if he was in the squad, since it’s outside the international window? Seems a bit rough to give Toonie pelters over not playing someone who isn’t eligible! (Coming from something who thinks he’s an utter pish coach!)

Finn couldn’t play. Not Toonie’s fault

Finn is a petulant child. Not Toonie’s fault

If playing, Finn would not have scored the try Blair did.

If playing, Finn would have gone into insanity mode at the 60 min mark and probably cost us a try or two.

The other thing you can’t blame Toonie for is the number of penalties the players gave away. Shoe doing a swan dive??? What’s that all about?
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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:55 pm

We were right behind the posts and BK was never going to kick that all day long. He looked nervous from the moment he picked up the ball.

Pity because otherwise he seemed to have a decent game and now this will be the story.

He may or may not be an international FH but he certainly is not an international goal kicker.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:01 pm

tigertattie wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Surely Finn would never have been playing in this game even if he was in the squad, since it’s outside the international window? Seems a bit rough to give Toonie pelters over not playing someone who isn’t eligible! (Coming from something who thinks he’s an utter pish coach!)

Finn couldn’t play. Not Toonie’s fault

Finn is a petulant child. Not Toonie’s fault

If playing, Finn would not have scored the try Blair did.

If playing, Finn would have gone into insanity mode at the 60 min mark and probably cost us a try or two.

The other thing you can’t blame Toonie for is the number of penalties the players gave away. Shoe doing a swan dive??? What’s that all about?

I tend to agree, I really think Scotland are a better side without Russell. Scotland were the better side today, a bit unlucky in the end but possibly a bit lucky not to get a red card too.

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Post by alive555 Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:07 pm

tigertattie wrote:
alive555 wrote:this game was directly lost by 1 person

GREGOR TOWNSEND

Get rid of him now

Give me two changes you would have made to that team tonight.


Why do you need 2 when Horne was on the pitch?

Bet his kick record is better

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Post by RDW Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:58 pm

Ah feck.

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Post by tigertattie Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:06 pm

RDW wrote:Ah feck.

Pretty much
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Post by RDW Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:11 pm

Question for me watching is - watch the full game, watch a 20 minute mini-match or watch 7 minute highlights?

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Post by Mr Bounce Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:50 pm

Question: I was a neutral watching the game but one thing I couldn't quite understand: in the build-up to the Scottish yellow (that was very lucky not to have been a red), Foley tries to tackle Van Der Merwe, was upright and it was direct head on head contact in the tackle. Why was this not looked at as well? Granted Foley was utterly run over, but surely that's not the point?

I was frustrated by both teams not being able to put together a solid attacking game - it was a bit of a stinker to watch. I don't rate Blarehorn as a 10 - he's a better 15, and I think Townsend is trying to shoehorn him into the position to prove a point. Hopefully next week will be Hastings' turn and he'll never need to give the shirt back to Kinghorn.

Some of the Australian players were not playing well - the numbers of mistakes were shocking. Tate McDermott looked lively at first, but chucking passes all over the place and getting easily scragged is not the work of an international 9. The less said about Kellaway and Banks the better. It's no surprise that they're as low in the rankings as they are.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:58 pm

I think they did look at the one on VDM, but ruled it to be fair. Could be wrong though.

It was a very poor quality game. Scotland will be hugely frustrated as it was there to be won - their defence was solid for the most part, and they did well at the breakdown, but lack of composure in attack and the sin-bin ultimately cost them. Australia made so many errors with ball in hand, the Australian 9 was terrible. Could be a tough autumn for both teams.

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Post by tigertattie Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:47 pm

Duty281 wrote:I think they did look at the one on VDM, but ruled it to be fair. Could be wrong though.

It was a very poor quality game. Scotland will be hugely frustrated as it was there to be won - their defence was solid for the most part, and they did well at the breakdown, but lack of composure in attack and the sin-bin ultimately cost them. Australia made so many errors with ball in hand, the Australian 9 was terrible. Could be a tough autumn for both teams.

Don’t

When the refs were talking about a hot to the head I thought this was what they were talking about. How can one hit to the head be a card but another not?

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:03 pm

Urghh! Grim game to watch. Defence was ok, but otherwise we looked disjointed. One that got away, potentially, but hard to argue we were better. Not great.

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Post by RDW Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:56 pm

Just watched that game - it certainly wasn't a classic. We should have won it but I don't think either team covered themselves in glory.

Jamie Ritchie had a great game (as always) but I think he made wrong choices in the first half to not kick at goal. I'll forgive him for the first kick to touch when we were in front of the posts on the 22 (I still think we should have taken 3), but the pen in front of the posts on 5m he should have pointed to the posts straight away. We then let the defence organise themselves before taking a tap and go, which ultimately led to a turnover.

These are test matches - when you have easy 3 points early in a game you take them.

My next gripe is the lineout - we lost 5 or 6, including a few key ones in their 22. Given the Wallabies lineout is pretty terrible too that's not good. Its been the same for the last 18 months or so

On the plus side, the Scottish DNA of causing as much disruption in rucks as possible and really hassling the opposition was still there, and our defence was good (helped by Wallabies being very inaccurate).

As for Kinghorn - he actually played pretty well and his kicking from hand is a huge asset. But he really should have kicked that winning kick. A major issue with picking him at 10 is that we're massively compromised in goal kicking, and in tight test matches that will cost us. Ultimately, Hastings and probably even Russell would have got that - a moot point for this match but still a major consideration in sticking with Blair.

Finally - Young should have had a red! But I do also think Foley's tackle should have been looked at as he did tackle VDM upright and make head contact.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:15 pm

RDW wrote:Just watched that game - it certainly wasn't a classic. We should have won it but I don't think either team covered themselves in glory.

Jamie Ritchie had a great game (as always) but I think he made wrong choices in the first half to not kick at goal. I'll forgive him for the first kick to touch when we were in front of the posts on the 22 (I still think we should have taken 3), but the pen in front of the posts on 5m he should have pointed to the posts straight away. We then let the defence organise themselves before taking a tap and go, which ultimately led to a turnover.

These are test matches - when you have easy 3 points early in a game you take them.

My next gripe is the lineout - we lost 5 or 6, including a few key ones in their 22. Given the Wallabies lineout is pretty terrible too that's not good. Its been the same for the last 18 months or so

On the plus side, the Scottish DNA of causing as much disruption in rucks as possible and really hassling the opposition was still there, and our defence was good (helped by Wallabies being very inaccurate).

As for Kinghorn - he actually played pretty well and his kicking from hand is a huge asset. But he really should have kicked that winning kick. A major issue with picking him at 10 is that we're massively compromised in goal kicking, and in tight test matches that will cost us. Ultimately, Hastings and probably even Russell would have got that - a moot point for this match but still a major consideration in sticking with Blair.

Finally - Young should have had a red! But I do also think Foley's tackle should have been looked at as he did tackle VDM upright and make head contact.

Yeah, I thought both were reds. The one on VDM was clear head-on-head which usually sees the strictest sanction. Pearce seemed to do everything possible to talk himself out of red-carding Young.

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Post by tigertattie Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:35 pm

Clear outs are really difficult these days. It actually punishes you of a player makes a clean break. Because young came in from a distance it highlighted it to the ref. There was no way he was going to keep up with Duhan when he broke the tackle up the wing.

What’s worse is he could have done the croc roll on McDermott which is legal but young croc rolling McDermott would possibly have utterly managed one of McDermott’s knees due to the size difference.
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Post by alive555 Sat Oct 29, 2022 9:07 pm

Why didn't we have our specialist goal kicker Thompson on the pitch?

Apparently he's on better form than Russell who scored 20 points for Racing back to back weeks....


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Post by bsando Sun Oct 30, 2022 2:52 am

I thought Luke Pearse made the right call on the yellow card. It highlights just how difficult it is as player to clear out rucks legally now.  I won’t claim McDermott milked the penalty but I wonder if some players (particularly scrum halves) are deliberately putting their heads in a lower position to gain an advantage in situations like that? 

Very true about the decision to not go for points. Aus deserved the lead at half-time thanks to that and ultimately the win thanks to the poor Scottish discipline. 

The atmosphere at Murrayfield seemed very quiet throughout apart from a few moments in the match. Hopefully the Fiji match will be a bit livelier.

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Post by bsando Sun Oct 30, 2022 2:55 am

 alive555 wrote:Why didn't we have our specialist goal kicker Thompson on the pitch?

Apparently he's on better form than Russell who scored 20 points for Racing back to back weeks....


Actually Thompson probably should have been subbed on at the end in hindsight. And when Scotland had a penalty advantage at the end no one thought to try setup a drop goal attempt.

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Post by RDW Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:07 am

Would love to see the stats on how many tries we've scored from kicks to the corner in the last year. As I'm guessing not many!

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Post by RiscaGame Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:57 am

Saw a pretty good tweet about Kinghorn, which I completely agree with.

Sam Larner wrote: Kinghorn was shafted today because he was asked to make a kick that only 73% of good kickers would make when he could've made a bunch of easier kicks earlier in the game. It was a pretty cruel way to approach a match that was always going to be close.

Taken from this thread

https://twitter.com/samlstandsup/status/1586443755225317387?s=46&t=gnSMcPOZ40U7rL0n2ohYIQ

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Post by BigGee Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:06 am

Yes. I could not understand not tsking the kicks earlier. Especially the easy one

It was obvious even at that stage it was going to be a close game!

Poor game management and that is also something Scotland need to practice!

This new mental health coach has got his work cut out!

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Post by RDW Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:06 am

RiscaGame wrote:Saw a pretty good tweet about Kinghorn, which I completely agree with.

Sam Larner wrote: Kinghorn was shafted today because he was asked to make a kick that only 73% of good kickers would make when he could've made a bunch of easier kicks earlier in the game. It was a pretty cruel way to approach a match that was always going to be close.

Taken from this thread

https://twitter.com/samlstandsup/status/1586443755225317387?s=46&t=gnSMcPOZ40U7rL0n2ohYIQ

I saw that too. Mark Bennett has kicked to goal more often than him, yet he's being asked to be frontline kicker in test matches!

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Post by BigGee Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:06 am

Yes. I could not understand not tsking the kicks earlier. Especially the easy one

It was obvious even at that stage it was going to be a close game!

Poor game management and that is also something Scotland need to practice!

This new mental health coach has got his work cut out!

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Post by RDW Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:20 am

Looking ahead to Fiji, I think we need to go full metal jacket as they're no mugs. We very much need to build towards NZ too (surely this is our greatest chance of beating them that we've ever had?)

In terms of who.comes in, Rory Sutherland played 40 minutes for Ulster and apparently made a huge impact. Skinner I'm guessing will be injured (and I wouldn't pick him anyway.

That's all small fry decisions though compared to who plays 10. A lot of people assume Hastings will come straight in but I'm 99% confident that Toonie will pick Kinghorn to start every game this series. At least with Hastings back we can bring him on to kick last minute penalties...moving Kinghorn to the wing for his kicking from hand (which is excellent).

My team:

1 Schoeman
2 Ashman
3 Fagerson
4 J Gray
5 Gilchrist
6 Ritchie
7 Watson
8 Fagerson

9 Price
10 Kinghorn
11 VDM
12 Redpath
13 Harris
14 Graham
15 Hogg

Subs - Sutherland, Turner, Nel, R Gray, Haining, Horne, Hastings, Bennett

Some further thoughts on this:

J Gray and Gilchrist aren't a natural pairing but Gray has been playing well for Exeter this season. Gilchrist really needs to fox the feckin lineout (R Gray on the bench will help that)

I thought about some changes at 8 but that backrows is a huge part of our DNA now. Haining off the bench for extra physicality. I suspect Toonie will pick Bayliss or Christie, as he seems to be a big fan of both. I think we need a big bruiser on the bench given who our starting flankers are.

I think we all agree we need a ball player at 12 to bring our back 3 into the game (did Tuipolotu actually pass all game?). That midfield is not the strongest defensibly however which is why Harris keeps his place.

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Post by BigGee Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:27 am

Yes. I think play the team he plans for NZ next weekend sgainst Fiji to let them blend a bit.

He can rotate a bit for the last game against Argentina.

I think he will stat BK again but he will get subbed esrlier and Hadtings will get a decent shot as well. They are essentially playing off to start the NZ test.

I also think Tuipolotu will bench over Bennett, as he carries more options. Schoeman gave away to many penalties in my opinion, so he could bench as well and Sutherland starts.

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Post by NeilyBroon Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:04 am

Bayliss is on fire at the moment for bath. He had an absolute Stormer against Northampton last week and was pivotal in the lineout. He should at the very least be a bench option.

I think it'd be foolhardy of Toonie not to start Hastings, especially given his form for Gloucester, a team competing for the premiership title this year I reckon.

However I think people are right in that Toonie has done what he does best and put all of his eggs into one basket hoping he'll get a big "told you so" moment by sticking with his anointed 10 in Blair. Kinghorn has always played okay at 10 for Scotland in his appearances so far but I think he needs to be understudy to an out and out FH. Hastings is best placed at the moment, and especially as we need a kicker. Scotland need a specialist and not a generalist.

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Post by RDW Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:11 am

BigGee wrote:Yes. I think play the team he plans for NZ next weekend sgainst Fiji to let them blend a bit.

He can rotate a bit for the last game against Argentina.

I think he will stat BK again but he will get subbed esrlier and Hadtings will get a decent shot as well. They are essentially playing off to start the NZ test.

I also think Tuipolotu will bench over Bennett, as he carries more options. Schoeman gave away to many penalties in my opinion, so he could bench as well and Sutherland starts.

Schoeman had 13 carries, 9 tackles and 3 penalties (including the superman) - I don't think those penalties warrant dropping him.

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Post by jimbopip Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:17 am

Good morning peeps Cool

I missed the game yesterday so may I make a request of you masochists who watched the whole 80 minutes?

Can we take General franco's viewpoint that this (the AI's) is a block of four games which is primarily there to allow the coaches (yes plural) to look at players, individually and in combinations, with a view to the World Cup?

What have we learned?
Front row? Is Cherry looking like good enough for the WC squad? Did Bhatti and Nel hold up when they came on?
Locks; Is Principal good enough? Young?
Back Row; No-one seems to have mentioned Boxer: did he make an impact? Will the four yesterday be our first choice as a unit? I have just read neily's comment, it may seem sacreligeous but Fagerson-Dempsey-Bayliss might be an interesting starting combo against Fiji.
Half backs ; Is Hornito our back up? Can Blairhorn be relied on to kick when the pressure is really on? As I typed that I was seeing Dancer's 84th minute conversion from the right hand touchline in the semi against Ulster: a very missable kick but it was never in doubt).
Centres; Is Shona a much better 13 than 12? Or was he getting poor ball with nowhere to go? Was he already in a blind alley when the pass came to him or does his internal satnav just keep finding them?
Finally, will Ollie Smith be the kick up the posterior Hogg seems to need?

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Post by RDW Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:29 am

jimbopip wrote:Good morning peeps Cool

I missed the game yesterday so may I make a request of you masochists who watched the whole 80 minutes?

Can we take General franco's viewpoint that this (the AI's) is a block of four games which is primarily there to allow the coaches (yes plural) to look at players, individually and in combinations, with a view to the World Cup?

What have we learned?
Front row? Is Cherry looking like good enough for the WC squad? Maybe Did Bhatti and Nel hold up when they came on? Yes, but not much impact
Locks; Is Principal good enough? Young? Probably no, and probably no
Back Row; No-one seems to have mentioned Boxer: did he make an impact? Not really Will the four yesterday be our first choice as a unit? Probably not I have just read neily's comment, it may seem sacreligeous but Fagerson-Dempsey-Bayliss might be an interesting starting combo against Fiji.
Half backs ; Is Hornito our back up? Meh Can Blairhorn be relied on to kick when the pressure is really on? Negative As I typed that I was seeing Dancer's 84th minute conversion from the right hand touchline in the semi against Ulster: a very missable kick but it was never in doubt).
Centres; Is Shona a much better 13 than 12? Yes - he did well with what he got but he's not the answer Or was he getting poor ball with nowhere to go? Was he already in a blind alley when the pass came to him or does his internal satnav just keep finding them?
Finally, will Ollie Smith be the kick up the posterior Hogg seems to need? Smith took his try well but I don't think Hogg will lose any sleep

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Post by jimbopip Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:34 am

Thanks Flounder. A lot of "meh" type answers with only to definitive answers. hogg needn't worry and Blairhorn won't win us games with clutch kicks.

Regardless of the result...we would have wanted to learn more, methinks.

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Post by RDW Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:45 am

jimbopip wrote:Thanks Flounder. A lot of "meh" type answers with only to definitive answers. hogg needn't worry and Blairhorn won't win us games with clutch kicks.

Regardless of the result...we would have wanted to learn more, methinks.

Yeah I think we learnt very little that we didn't already know, and reinforced the concerns we already had. Meh very much sums it up.

I think Smith's try was a real highlight - a piece of individual attacking intent that bodes well for his future.

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Post by tigertattie Sun Oct 30, 2022 7:10 am

We know the discipline was honking but here are some very telling stays

Number of runs
Duhan 5
Darcy 3

I believe every single one of those runs was from fielding or chasing a kick. Unbelievable

Look. I was pretty crap and a social player but even I had more runs than that in games!!!

Now. I hope you are sitting down for this one:

Missed tackles
Hamish Watson 1

That’s the first tackle he’s missed for Scotland since 6ns 2019!!!! Surely a sigh of the impending apocalypse???

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:09 am

Smith was certainly a positive I thought. Solid at the back and under the high ball, and picked a nice line and showed good footwork to finish his try. Hogg is clearly first choice, but Smith showed himself a capable deputy.

It would be wrong to blame Kinghorn for the defeat. His overall performance (superb individual try aside) was actually pretty good. He isn't a goal kicker for Edinburgh, and shouldn't be for Scotland either. Had we had wee Greg at 9, we'd have likely won that game. It's actually a bit of a problem for us, because Russell isn't a great kicker either. I don't see us being able to simply ignore kickable penalties, as we did yesterday, and win crunch test matches. Ritchie is a great player, but I thought he made some poor decisions yesterday regarding when to kick and not to kick penalties. He'll need to work on that.

Tuipolotu was interesting. Some strong carries and great hits in defence. I'm concerned he may have "Dave Denton" hands though, and despite my optimism for the combination before the game he didn't really gel with Bennett.

Bennett, Duhan and Graham had generally quiet games, and didn't really get involved. Shame given their abilities ball on hand. We've become almost too structured I'd say. Less organised chaos and more organised predictability. This Aussie side was there for the taking and once again we fall short.

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Post by TJ Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:23 am

When the team look like they have little plan or morale and make so many mistakes - thats the coaches fault

When the best player Scotland have produced for generations is left out for bogus reasons - then thats the coaches fault

When the players play better for their clubs than their country - thats the coaches fault

When the tram look ill prepared - thats the coaches fault

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Post by jimbopip Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:33 am

Well, having watched the game I find I'm agreeing with most of what Stockbridge's Suella is saying (yes FES we are looking at you).
Smith started slowly but came into a good game: he has a wonderful knack of almost always beating the first man so when he is tackled the defensive line still has to retreat and re-align.
Tuipolotu Headscratch I thought he had a good game. His instinct is to take the ball on if there's nothing outside and he did this well. Whether there was nothing outside because the OZ defence were shutting down the 13 channel or because he was receiving poor ball I couldn't tell. But I thought he did well with what he was given.
Two tries were missed with dropped/not caught passes. Both times Blairhorn threw big loopy miss passes. Passer or receiver at fault? I would suggest they were poor passes.
Our wingers didn't get the ball nearly enough. Is that the 12's fault or the 10? I think you know my opinion on that one.
I thought Duhan was in for a certain try before Foley did his Yosser Hughes impersonation. Straight yellow for me.
We are criticising Mbawza for opting to go to the corner rather than take the points on several occasions: but he plays alongside Blairhorn every week, maybe he knew those kicks weren't gimmies?

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Post by jimbopip Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:35 am

TJ wrote:When the team look like they have little plan or morale and make so many mistakes - thats the coaches fault

When the best player Scotland have produced for generations is left out for bogus reasons - then thats the coaches fault

When the players play better for their clubs than their country - thats the coaches fault

When the tram look ill prepared - thats the coaches operating company'sfault

fixed that for you Whistle

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Post by NeilyBroon Sun Oct 30, 2022 9:12 am

I think a few good points have been raised about centres. I'm praying that Bennett has another chance but with Redpath inside him. That could be a wonderful combination and perhaps we'd see the ball to wide more often with good attacking options being taken.

I expect we'll see captain hardworking outside Redpath though, Redpath will make him look like an attacking OC, he'll hold the position for the next 15 years while toonie's failed to get us out of the group for the 4th time running and Dodson is running the SRU from his beach house on the British Virgin Islands.

On the bright side, the only way is up!

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Post by tigertattie Sun Oct 30, 2022 9:55 am

Jeez jimbo, did you watch the game? Tipolotu was honking. I know Blairhorn has his detractors but his pass to Denton mk2 was right into his chest. He simply didn’t gather it and knew he fecked up big time as he slid along the turf.

He also ran into blind ally after blind ally even when Bennett, one of the wingers and smith were outside him. He was awful

Now, Blairhorn did mess up with his pass to Richie. He must have thought it was the other Ritchie that was there??? The commentators said this was party Jamie Ritchie’s fault for not holding width. No. You pass to the man. You don’t pass to where the man may or may not be!

I’m also not part of the squad so I don’t know the tactics but I’m thinking that the team were sent out there with orders in the first half to kick for the corner every time given how poor the Oz lineout has been. It’s just a shame ours was equally as bad.
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Post by Highland Shaun Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:38 pm

For all the Dempsey hype, I didn't hear his name mentioned once apart from when he came on Sad

Hopefully he gets another chance to show what he can do though.

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Post by BigGee Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:49 pm

Dempsey is a good player.

I am sure we will see his worth during this series at some point.

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Post by RDW Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:55 pm

Yeah you don't get 14 caps for Australia if you aren't a decent player. At the point of time he came on he just had a lot of tackling to do. Didn't get the chance to see him with ball in hand.

Toonie has a lot of backrow options but I don't think he can tinker too much in this series - this is all about nailing down your 5/6 go-to players there

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Post by Highland Shaun Sun Oct 30, 2022 7:14 pm

Well I'm glad to say that Scotland did indeed put up a fight unlike a certain football and tbh I can take the loss as gut wrenching as it was because imho we can take lots of positives from it, one being a certain fly half's performance which will surely shut u the doubters for at least a week! Though I doubt it because they'll bring up the missed conversion and penalty at the end!

I'm getting frustrated bordering on annoyed at these idiots that keep giving away penalties though, the worse one yesterday was from Schoeman, I mean wtf was he doing!!?

The tries were both excellent but I was particularly in awe of the second one, the footballing skills shown by Blair would have made Hampden stand up and applaud clap.

I am still backing Gregor though its getting harder with every loss but tbh he can't be blamed for, a) indiscipline from certain idiots and b) Missed kicks from Blair.

Hopefully we get the win against Fiji to bring back the feelgood factor because imho we are due a win but in order to do that, we need to put out our best team.

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Post by George Carlin Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:46 am

alive555 wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
alive555 wrote:this game was directly lost by 1 person

GREGOR TOWNSEND

Get rid of him now

Give me two changes you would have made to that team tonight.

This post was sponsored by the Jimbo Quote Function Masterclass.
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Post by jimbopip Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:52 am

George Carlin wrote:
alive555 wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
alive555 wrote:this game was directly lost by 1 person

GREGOR TOWNSEND

Get rid of him now

Give me two changes you would have made to that team tonight.

This post was sponsored by the Jimbo Quote Function Masterclass. kiss Thanks for that Mr GC

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Post by Hazel Sapling Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:28 am

Was pretty frustrated following the game...we rely on Kinghorn to kick when at club level, Bennett was considered the better kicker between the two. He was put into a situation that he has not practiced at club level with fairly predictable results. This is where a lack of joined up thinking between club and country get us and why Kinghorn should be third (if not fourth) choice. Russell's kicking, whilst much maligned, has improved immensely

I think it shows how good M Fagerson is that we notice the drop off when he is replaced. Dempsey will get more opportunities and hopefully be more than a somewhat useful backup like Haining and Bradbury.

Overall, our discipline is disgraceful and it needs to be cleaned up. Was it three penalties for making contact in the air at line-out time? The missed kick to touch with three Scots around and no one takes it?  The Young clear-out I have some sympathy with a 6'7 lumbering giant trying to keep up with a break and take out the smallest guy on the park by going low. What is not excusable is the way he got turtled over the line. Any of those simple mistakes get eliminated and we would have won on Saturday without relying on a barely part-time kicker.

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Post by RDW Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:36 am

Predictable hysteria in press reaction generally. It does feel a bit OTT.

There's no doubt there's major distractions just now and I wonder how much Townsend still has the dressing room, particular given our style of play in the last year has neither been good attack nor good defence!

Townsend clearly has a vision, but it's currently not an overly successful one.

I'm sure we'll win against Fiji, put up a brave losing performance to NZ and beat Argentina in a poor quality game and we'll be right back where we've been for the last few years!

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Post by George Carlin Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:57 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:Was pretty frustrated following the game...we rely on Kinghorn to kick when at club level, Bennett was considered the better kicker between the two. He was put into a situation that he has not practiced at club level with fairly predictable results. This is where a lack of joined up thinking between club and country get us and why Kinghorn should be third (if not fourth) choice. Russell's kicking, whilst much maligned, has improved immensely

I think it shows how good M Fagerson is that we notice the drop off when he is replaced. Dempsey will get more opportunities and hopefully be more than a somewhat useful backup like Haining and Bradbury.

Overall, our discipline is disgraceful and it needs to be cleaned up. Was it three penalties for making contact in the air at line-out time? The missed kick to touch with three Scots around and no one takes it?  The Young clear-out I have some sympathy with a 6'7 lumbering giant trying to keep up with a break and take out the smallest guy on the park by going low. What is not excusable is the way he got turtled over the line. Any of those simple mistakes get eliminated and we would have won on Saturday without relying on a barely part-time kicker.
Agree 100% Hazel - discipline was shocking in the 6N and a crazy deterioration from 2 years ago when we had the lowest penalty count in that tournament.

It's absolutely killing us. Very hard to know how to stop that.
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Post by RDW Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:52 am

Finally caught up with the Gloucester highlights. Hastings has been on great form this season. Most importantly, he's also kicking like a dream!

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Post by geoff999rugby Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:00 am

Did anyone watch on Amazon ?
Inspite of it saying its was HD the picture quality wasn't a patch on BT Sport.

To be honest it was a game between two poor sides

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Post by EWT Spoons Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:51 am

Jeezo some folks are obsessed with a player who isn’t eligible to play in this game.  Who cares what Finn’s kicking percentage, form, or shoe size is for all it matters, he was not able to play against Oz.  Thomson was in the squad and on the bench because other than Savala (who played well against Cardiff and could be argued is in better form than Thomson, given he’s playing) Thomson is the only other 10 able to play in that game.  So, anyone questioning why he or literally any other Scottish based player was classed as a better option than Finn, is because Finn could not have played against OZ no matter if he was selected or not.

Kinghorn doesn’t currently take kicks at goal for Edinburgh, that might be something to do with him only being a year and a bit into his journey to being a 10, there were also 14 other players on the pitch, any of whom are allowed to kick for goal.  It seems fairly short sighted that no other player seemingly in Scottish rugby has been practicing kicks.  That is probably on the SRU overall, as they can ask Finn and Hastings to do a bit of practice, but we have a host of internationals at Edi & Gla and any of them could be asked directly to get some practice in.

The Foley tackle on Duhan, should absolutely have been at least a pen, he was also the last man so in theory it should have been a pen try and a yellow.  That it wasn’t looked at, or if it was and wasn’t deemed a penalty is very odd.  Young should and would still have received a card, but both teams would have been down a man and we’d have had a try.

Fairly poor game overall, not one I’d be rushing to watch again, both centres guilty of not getting the ball wide

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