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Scotland v Ireland 6 Nations Championship Sunday 12th March 2023

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Scotland v Ireland 6 Nations Championship Sunday 12th March 2023 - Page 5 Empty Scotland v Ireland 6 Nations Championship Sunday 12th March 2023

Post by BigGee Mon 06 Mar 2023, 9:45 am

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Ireland
6 Nations Championship and Triple Crown Decider

BT Murrayfield Stadium
Edinburgh

Sunday 12th March
KO 15.00


So we approach the business end of the championship with a triple crown at stake and for Ireland a potential Grand Slam, which as the top side in the world, they must feel is within their grasp.

Ireland, more than any other side in the championship, have been Scotland's bogy side. They seem to have been inside our heads for quite some time now and with the WC coming up, if we are going to have any chance of progression from our group, it is a headspace that needs to be altered drastically. Scotland were good in their first two games but came up short against another of the big boys last time out, despite playing at times, some sublime rugby and at times dominating France. Ireland are going to be every bit as physical as France were and are playing with even more belief. They were given an unexpected;y hard game by Italy last time out and that will no doubt have removed any complacency from them. All the smart money will be on Ireland to win this one.

Scotland, to confound form and the bookies will have to match Ireland physically for the bulk of the game and to take their chances. They have shown this season that they can play well off little ball and have an extremely dangerous backline when they can get it moving. They are also playing at home and that may possibly lift them as well, along with a sense of what if, regarding the French match. The general consensus this season is that Scotland have been progressing, but this is another level, but a necessary one if they are going to be considered a side that can really compete with the best.

Ireland, by just about any objective reckoning at the moment, are the best!

I am not seeing an awful lot of changes for this one, maybe a Scotland team along these lines:


1. Schoeman
2. Turner
3. Fagerson Z
4. Gray J
5. Gray R
6. Dempsey
7. Ritchie
8. Fagerson M
9. White
10. Russell
11. DVDM
12. Tuipolotu
13. Jones
14. Steyn
15. Hogg

Subs

Sutherland
Ashman
Nel
Skinner
Christie
Price
Kinghorn
Redpath


I am assuming Gilchrist will be suspended, though the mystery of his disciplinary continues to perplex

Sutherland has had 2 good run outs for Ulster in the past two weeks and looks fit and hungry

Ashman deserves his chance and I don't want another overthrow from FB in the last 5 mins

Christie has been consistently excellent for Sarries these past few weeks and Watson still looks flat to me. He deserves his chance.

Redpath might bring some creativity off the bench, out defence has stood up well without Harris.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 12 Mar 2023, 11:22 pm

Mcsweens wrote:And I thought Mr Pearce was good too. Nice to see him call out the chirpsing on both sides. (Ritchie and Porter)

He couldn’t ref a scrum for toffee though. Porter was pulling it down all afternoon and boring in. Ireland even got a penalty when those loosehead (no idea which Irishman it was at this point) stepped out and his shoulders were about 45 degrees away from the rest of the front don’t. They scored from the following lineout.

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Post by Collapse2005 Mon 13 Mar 2023, 7:17 am

Cian Healys tap and go fail was comical. Hope we dont regret that missed bonus point.

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Post by EWT Spoons Mon 13 Mar 2023, 9:24 am

First off well-done Ireland, best team on the day (and tournament overall) got the result they deserved.

From a Scotland point of view, that game was maddening to watch.  First half we were competitive, I’ve not seen the stats, but at the game it felt like we spent the majority of the first half in the Irish half, whilst it doesn’t really mean anything, it’s far better than spending the entire game under the cosh.

Second half, we just didn’t come out the changing rooms, it was a totally different team that took the field, everyone seemed to switch off. Players were left isolated at the breakdown, not reacting to JVDF taking the lineouts was criminal, and I think not having Gilco and R. Gray (both of whom I believe are our main lineout callers) in the team really impacted us.  Biggest thing for me though, and Ireland clearly worked this out, is we get really narrow in defence.  It was obvious against England when at least their first try came down Duhan’s wing as he had left acres of space out wide, and yesterday the same thing happened, only difference is Ireland are more than good enough to punish it.  

If Italy have anything about them, they will surely have noticed this as well and will be looking to exploit it.  I don’t think Duhan is solely to blame here, I think it might be a system thing, as I think Steyn was caught out on the opposite wing as well at one point.  I appreciate I’m potentially oversimplifying, as I appreciate there is absolutely an element of good build up play by the Irish to tie players into rucks, tackles etc to create space, but we seem to come too far in field to compensate and seemingly totally ignore the opposition player hugging the touchline.  

Also, as I said before the game, I didn’t think the backrow was right, I might be doing him a disservice (as I’ve only seen the game once and from one point in the stadium) but I think Fagerson (M) had a very quiet game for us, especially in the 2nd half.  Having Dempsey and Fagerson in the same backrow limits our ability to challenge for the ball and shuffling those players round, in my opinion didn’t work.  Not saying had we left Fagerson/Dempsey at 8 and had the like of Watson/Crosbie/Darge etc at 7 would have made a significant difference to the result (I suspect we’d still have lost) but I think we would have been more competitive at the breakdown.

Ireland are a class above though, if Scotland had lost both hookers and (because he was on the bench) Berghan had to step in to cover at hooker, we’d have been blown away.  This isn’t a slight on Berghan, just an indication of how ridiculous this Irish team are.  Watching the Irish substitutions just makes you want to weep, off goes a player that would walk into the Scotland team, and his replacement, someone who is of equal or potentially higher ability.


Last edited by EWT Spoons on Mon 13 Mar 2023, 12:22 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Tramptastic Mon 13 Mar 2023, 11:15 am

It was interesting to watch how we lost a lot of ball to turnovers in the 2nd half and it wasn't the backrows fault.

The attack over the course of the match from Scotland involved runners looking for the offload from the ball carrier as soon as contact was made. In the first half this worked a treat and it was probably an acknowledgement of Irelands threat at the breakdown i.e. when it's on outwide don't look for the ruck, look to keep the ball alive.

In the 2nd half, Ireland were canny to this and either through in a jam to the offload channel or targeted the ball. Scotlands support runners were running cracking lines for the offload and if the ball had gotten away a couple more times there were clear tries at stake. However, the Scotland players didn't react to Ireland changing their defensive tactics and we lost so much ball out wide to this.

Ireland were incredibly adaptive. Scotland were not.

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Post by Oakdene Mon 13 Mar 2023, 11:49 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Cian Healys tap and go fail was comical. Hope we dont regret that missed bonus point.

See also James Ryan...

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Post by Collapse2005 Mon 13 Mar 2023, 11:59 am

Oakdene wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Cian Healys tap and go fail was comical. Hope we dont regret that missed bonus point.

See also James Ryan...

yeah Ryan messed up alright.

it seems inconsistent in the laws that Healy's botched penalty resulted in Scotland ball whereas Scotland's botched lineout with the wrong ball resulted in a retake for Scotland.

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Post by TJ Mon 13 Mar 2023, 12:01 pm

it seems inconsistent in the laws that Healy's botched penalty resulted in Scotland ball whereas Scotland's botched lineout with the wrong ball resulted in a retake for Scotland.
Ive seen that as a retaken pen in youtube highlights.  The pen was never taken so should have been again

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Post by Hazel Sapling Mon 13 Mar 2023, 12:18 pm

Well done to Ireland. The smarter team won and it is a sign that Ireland have matured. Everything went wrong and they did not seem to take a backward step

On to Scotland. First half, we lacked a little bit of a clinical edge. We were lucky to avoid a yellow and if Hansen had not scored, I suspect we would have had a yellow and an Irish try two minutes later anyway

Where it went wrong is our rugby nous in the line-out (really poor), lack of patience in the 22 (Hogg passing wide to Turner was absolutely stupid to end the half) and our replacements outside of Cummings were either negative or neutral impact.

A side note. I think not having Harris at 13 showed his importance in organising the weaker defender outside him, VDM. VDM was exposed a few times that he struggles to tackle players coming at pace and with his positioning. It is a mix of rugby brain and, frankly, bravery. Jones played well and should not be thrown away because VDM struggles defensively, however VDM needs to spend the summer working with Maitland on how to position himself.

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Post by Collapse2005 Mon 13 Mar 2023, 2:56 pm

Ireland Injury Update:

Garry Ringrose is doing well today and has returned to Dublin. He will take no further part in this year’s Championship.

Iain Henderson is due to undergo surgery today on a fractured forearm sustained in the first half of yesterday’s game. The uncapped Ross Molony is added to the squad to provide additional second row cover.

Both Dan Sheehan and Ronan Kelleher sustained shoulder injuries against Scotland and both will be managed in camp this week. Ulster’s Tom Stewart has been brought in as cover.

Caelan Doris’ hip complaint will also be managed in camp this week.


My guess is there is a good chance Doris and Sheehan will be back for the England game but Henderson and Ringrose obviously out.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 13 Mar 2023, 5:41 pm

All the best to Ringrose, he is quality mind. Which hooker on the bench if Sheehan starts and Kelleher is unavailable?

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Post by mountain man Mon 13 Mar 2023, 5:42 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:All the best to Ringrose, he is quality mind. Which hooker on the bench if Sheehan starts and Kelleher is unavailable?

Josh VdF obviously....

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Post by Collapse2005 Mon 13 Mar 2023, 5:51 pm

Van der Flier also drives the team bus, washes the team kit and does the after match catering. What a guy.

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Post by neilthom7 Mon 13 Mar 2023, 7:29 pm

He was off to the Aviva to mow the grass earlier too

Herring played for Ulster last week so I'd assume he is good to go after the concussion v France and will be on the bench if one of those 2 start.

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Post by jimbopip Tue 14 Mar 2023, 8:47 am

Bit late to the party but...

Ireland clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap

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Post by Oakdene Tue 14 Mar 2023, 10:05 am

Can't help but feel that Ireland knew that their replacement hooker was not 100% fit as there are pictures of VdF throwing into lineouts before the match...

From a Scotland point of view I was so impressed with your centres, they carried hard & Tuipulotu was just a joy to watch taking the ball right to the line & off loading or hitting contact.

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Post by Collapse2005 Tue 14 Mar 2023, 10:10 am

Yeah Jones and Tuipulotu were formidable. Some choice sledging from Tuipulotu on Ringrose when he sent Jones over for his try.

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