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World Test Championship Final 2023 (7th June - 11th June)

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JDizzle
Pal Joey
eirebilly_01
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Post by Duty281 Sun 04 Jun 2023, 3:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

The second edition of the World Test Championship concludes with the final between Australia and India, starting on Wednesday at 10:30 BST (that's half an hour earlier than tests in England usually start, so be aware!).

Australia narrowly missed out on reaching the first final, but for this cycle they comfortably topped the table with 11 wins in their 19 tests. This included a 4-0 hammering of England at home and also a narrow win in Pakistan, although they did lose to India in India by a margin of 2-1. India edged out South Africa to 2nd place to reach their second consecutive final, and they'll be hoping to go one better than 2021 where they were defeated by New Zealand in the final.

The two squads are as follows:

Australia: Pat Cummins (captain), Scott Boland, Alex Carey, Cameron Green, Marcus Harris, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, Marnus Labuschagne, Nathan Lyon, Josh Inglis, Todd Murphy, Steve Smith, Mitchell Starc, David Warner.

Reserves: Mitch Marsh, Matt Renshaw

India: Rohit Sharma (captain), Ravichandran Ashwin, KS Bharat, Shubman Gill, Ravindra Jadeja, Virat Kohli, Ishan Kishan, Cheteshwar Pujara, Axar Patel, Ajinkya Rahane, Mohammad Shami, Mohammad Siraj, Shardul Thakur, Jaydev Unadakt, Umesh Yadav.

Reserves: Yashasvi Jaiswal, Mukesh Kumar, Suryakumar Yadav


Must be noted that Josh Hazlewood, who has hardly played any tests over the past few years, has been officially ruled out of the final, as he continues to battle troubling injuries. Boland will be the likely beneficiary.

Unlike the 2021 final, the weather forecast is for continuous sunshine and temperatures going into the high 20s. There is a reserve day in place, but it's not probable that this will be required.

I favour Australia to win this one. Their batting and seam bowling seems much the stronger, plus Australia are likely to find conditions more to their advantage than India.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Sun 11 Jun 2023, 12:47 pm

So that was that. Some performance by the Aussies clap

Travis Head, player of the match and deservedly so, his 160 was what really broke the back of the Indians. Smith got 120 but for me Head's knock gave the whole Aussie team a huge boost.

Enjoy this PJ thumbsup

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Post by Duty281 Sun 11 Jun 2023, 12:48 pm

Well done Australia. The best team over the course of the whole cycle, and emphatic winners in the final. clap clap clap

Smith and Head provided the bulk of the runs. Always looks likely that at least one of Labuschagne/Smith/Head will deliver big in a test, it's very difficult keeping all three quiet, and concerningly for England all three have had some decent time in the middle. After Smith and Head, the well-rounded bowling attack knocked India over, every name chipping in something for the Aussies. Best test team in the world, no doubt.

Not much time to enjoy the win, however, the next WTC cycle starts on Friday with Australia trying to win their first series in England since 2001. India have a little break before a two-test series in the Caribbean next month. Might be the start of a rebuild for India, perhaps, as they have a lot of aged names in their side.

Looks likely that Australia v India will be the next final of the WTC, also. England have it tough with 5 tests at home to Aus and 5 tests away to India. Perhaps the most likely gate-crashers are South Africa, as they avoid Australia and England, while getting to play India at home.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 11 Jun 2023, 1:10 pm

Pal Joey wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Greatest mysteries: What happened to the Mary Celeste; the Bermuda Triangle; Glenn Miller's disappearance; Bharat's first-class triple ton.

Maybe need to ask Lord Lucan?

It was a good test between two sides with hardly any recent red ball cricket.
Thanks to King Charles III for the loan of that beautiful bejewelled mace. It will no doubt add some sparkle to the trophy cabinet.

Commiseration KP_fan, msp and Billy. There's always a hint of controversy in these clashes and I was reluctant to take anything for granted coming into this final day. I'm sure if you had Pant and Bumrah fit for play it might have been a different result. I'm careful commenting about individual player selections but from my point of view, India are truly a very strong side (even with those critical players missing) and your guys have proven many times they play the game with considerable skill and fight (like tigers!)... which I'm sure everybody appreciates and admires.

Well Done Aus
First team to become world champions in all formats ODIs, T20s and Now Tests clap clap
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Post by Duty281 Sun 11 Jun 2023, 3:24 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Kohli failing in an ICC final/knockout game - imagine my surprise

Mirrors India's struggles in the same type of games. Ten years since they last won an ICC trophy, since then:

2014 World T20 - Lost in the final.
2015 ODI World Cup - Lost in the semi-finals.
2016 World T20 - Lost in the semi-finals.
2017 Champions Trophy - Lost in the final.
2019 ODI World Cup - Lost in the semi-finals.
2021 World Test Championship - Lost in the final.
2022 World T20 - Lost in the semi-finals.
2023 World Test Championship - Lost in the final.

Pressure growing to end that drought in each event that passes.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 11 Jun 2023, 3:33 pm

Not the close finish we were hoping for, sadly. Australia were ahead from D1 though with that partnership between Smith and Head the clear matchwinner.

It was brilliant seeing the game so well supported. Realistically if we want the WTC to be more than an afterthought the final needs to be more than one Test and it can't always be in England. Being in London is a money spinner though as there are so many fans from around the world in the city to support their team. Then there is simply no room for more than a one Test final.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 11 Jun 2023, 3:42 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Kohli failing in an ICC final/knockout game - imagine my surprise

Mirrors India's struggles in the same type of games. Ten years since they last won an ICC trophy, since then:

2014 World T20 - Lost in the final.
2015 ODI World Cup - Lost in the semi-finals.
2016 World T20 - Lost in the semi-finals.
2017 Champions Trophy - Lost in the final.
2019 ODI World Cup - Lost in the semi-finals.
2021 World Test Championship - Lost in the final.
2022 World T20 - Lost in the semi-finals.
2023 World Test Championship - Lost in the final.

Pressure growing to end that drought in each event that passes.
In the white ball stuff there's the really interesting argument that India are doing too well to tear up the script.

When England did that they were genuinely dire in white ball cricket so Morgan and Bayliss could take on that new approach without fear of failure. Whereas India do so well in bilateral series (their great depth) and go deep in most tournaments as you show above. So it's really difficult for them to make big changes without feeling huge pressure from a giant and fanatical fanbase due to a short term slip in results.

They play fairly dated white ball cricket as a national team with a tendency towards 'anchors' that more and more sides are discarding. Generally the discourse around white ball batting in their national side is still very average or runs scored centred. Which is fascinating as the IPL is moving towards considering strike rate more heavily.

As such they often have these great records in bilateral games and leading up to the finals of world tournaments as their incredible talent pool and that fairly conservative style see them win a high proportion of games. When they reach KO games against more innovative or risk taking sides with their full strength XIs they have repeatedly come unstuck though.

It's always easier in a way to start making fundamental changes to a poor side as being rubbish previously takes the pressure off. Fletcher did this with England's Test side. McCullum and Stokes have done the same more recently. Morgan and Bayliss with the white ball unit.

As for the WTC I think it's a case of coming up against 2 strong sides with excellent bowling attacks, in more favourable conditions for them than India. Hence why I'd love the WTC final to be more than one Test and in differing conditions but it doesn't feel likely anytime soon.

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Post by guildfordbat Sun 11 Jun 2023, 5:04 pm

Duty281 wrote:Greatest mysteries: What happened to the Mary Celeste; the Bermuda Triangle; Glenn Miller's disappearance; Bharat's first-class triple ton.

Add to that list - how on earth does a 27 year old Duty know about Fred Trueman hosting Indoor League? Shocked Very Happy

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Post by KP_fan Sun 11 Jun 2023, 5:51 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Kohli failing in an ICC final/knockout game - imagine my surprise

Mirrors India's struggles in the same type of games. Ten years since they last won an ICC trophy, since then:

2014 World T20 - Lost in the final.
2015 ODI World Cup - Lost in the semi-finals.
2016 World T20 - Lost in the semi-finals.
2017 Champions Trophy - Lost in the final.
2019 ODI World Cup - Lost in the semi-finals.
2021 World Test Championship - Lost in the final.
2022 World T20 - Lost in the semi-finals.
2023 World Test Championship - Lost in the final.

Pressure growing to end that drought in each event that passes.

Pressure grew and grew and turned into desperation to win.
And now in running is a phase of despair and after the upcoming world-cup will be realization we ain't a top side anymore....and need to rebuild
For that realization a telling blow is necessary which will be not making it to the semis of a home world-cup. I don't think this Indian team will finish in top-4 of the all play all format to make it to semis

The biggest trigger for decline has been departure of Shastri...the astute and fighting brain...and then the removal of Kohli  because of his deemed  woke /leftist personal ideology
This was followed by an inability  of BCCI to get rid of "senior stars" and unleash the young talent that our domestic cricket is overflowing with......and blinded to their own rapid decline due to smug satisfaction of power that BCCI exudes...and add to that IPL around which center of Indian cricket revolves and is rotting away.
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Post by msp83 Sun 11 Jun 2023, 7:08 pm

I had to go out a bit after the twinn strikes from Boland. Whatever little theoretical chance India had gone by then, and as I expected, I didn't miss much. Pretty tame at the end, and a proper thrashing at the end of the day. The batting let down big time on a flattish pitch twice in the game. KS Bharat isn't a test bat is yet again proved. Team selection didn't vindicate the management all that much either.
At the end of the day, Rohit was left talking about the need for a 3 test series for the final and all that...
India's test roadmap needs a reboot. Rishabh Pant's return when that happens will be a big boost. But that will take time, and they need someone better than Bharat. Kishan or Samson should be given a chance. Samson is more likely to succeed as a test bat, but the guy let himself down by not keeping regularly for Kerala in FC cricket. So Kishan it will have to be, his glove work might be seriously challenged at test level. But at least in theory, he is better positioned to score a few test runs unlike Srikar Bharat. A stopgap arrangement would be to ask KL Rahul to keep wickets. His average of 35ish might then be acceptable enough... That will give good quality to the lineup down to 7.
Time to move on from Umesh Yadav. Certainly as an overseas option. Bumrah's return again, will take time. So need options in between. Prasidh Krishna again has fitness problems, if he's ready, should be given a go sooner rather than later. Awesh Khan can be another option. They both have the ability to bowl quick and are skilled enough. Unadkat isn't rapid but is very experienced at FC level and has good skill set and solid leadership qualities.

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Post by msp83 Sun 11 Jun 2023, 7:19 pm

Those are issues of immediate concern. But there are bigger problems Its an aging lineup overall. Rohit, Pujara, Rahane, Umesh, Ashwin, are all 35 or above and may not have a lot left in the tank. Jadeja and Kohli are also closing in. Of the lot, its only Jadeja and Ashwin who have been performing consistently in the last 2 or 3 years in any case.
Thre is Gill, and young Yashasvi Jaiswal has great potential and a fine beginning to his FC career, and he has shown good big level temperament in the IPL. Sarfaraz Khan has tremendous numbers in FC cricket, but hasn't managed to step up even at India A level and hasn't grabbed his opportunities at IPL level. Shreyas Iyer is suspect in overseas conditions though he reminds of of an earlier generation when it comes to playing spin. Riyan Parag, Tilak Varma, Yash Dhal. Who all will make the step up? Who among them have the kind of passion for the hard grind of test cricket? India may have to find out quicker than they would ideally have wanted I feel.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 11 Jun 2023, 9:05 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Kohli failing in an ICC final/knockout game - imagine my surprise

Mirrors India's struggles in the same type of games. Ten years since they last won an ICC trophy, since then:

2014 World T20 - Lost in the final.
2015 ODI World Cup - Lost in the semi-finals.
2016 World T20 - Lost in the semi-finals.
2017 Champions Trophy - Lost in the final.
2019 ODI World Cup - Lost in the semi-finals.
2021 World Test Championship - Lost in the final.
2022 World T20 - Lost in the semi-finals.
2023 World Test Championship - Lost in the final.

Pressure growing to end that drought in each event that passes.
In the white ball stuff there's the really interesting argument that India are doing too well to tear up the script.

When England did that they were genuinely dire in white ball cricket so Morgan and Bayliss could take on that new approach without fear of failure. Whereas India do so well in bilateral series (their great depth) and go deep in most tournaments as you show above. So it's really difficult for them to make big changes without feeling huge pressure from a giant and fanatical fanbase due to a short term slip in results.

They play fairly dated white ball cricket as a national team with a tendency towards 'anchors' that more and more sides are discarding. Generally the discourse around white ball batting in their national side is still very average or runs scored centred. Which is fascinating as the IPL is moving towards considering strike rate more heavily.

As such they often have these great records in bilateral games and leading up to the finals of world tournaments as their incredible talent pool and that fairly conservative style see them win a high proportion of games. When they reach KO games against more innovative or risk taking sides with their full strength XIs they have repeatedly come unstuck though.

It's always easier in a way to start making fundamental changes to a poor side as being rubbish previously takes the pressure off. Fletcher did this with England's Test side. McCullum and Stokes have done the same more recently. Morgan and Bayliss with the white ball unit.

As for the WTC I think it's a case of coming up against 2 strong sides with excellent bowling attacks, in more favourable conditions for them than India. Hence why I'd love the WTC final to be more than one Test and in differing conditions but it doesn't feel likely anytime soon.

Good points. Not helped by the short turnaround of these limited overs events these days - ODI World Cup this year, T20 World Cup next year, Champions Trophy in 2025 etc.

With the WTC final, I'd personally do away with the final and stick to a straight league format, although I acknowledge that won't happen. I see Rohit is calling for a three-test series to be the final.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 11 Jun 2023, 9:07 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Greatest mysteries: What happened to the Mary Celeste; the Bermuda Triangle; Glenn Miller's disappearance; Bharat's first-class triple ton.

Add to that list - how on earth does a 27 year old Duty know about Fred Trueman hosting Indoor League? Shocked Very Happy

Well the real answer is I've read Trueman's autobiography, and a biography of Trueman by Chris Waters.

Although Tino will tell you it's because I'm actually an 82-year-old masquerading as a 27 year old on the Internet. Very Happy

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Post by guildfordbat Sun 11 Jun 2023, 9:50 pm

Duty281 wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Greatest mysteries: What happened to the Mary Celeste; the Bermuda Triangle; Glenn Miller's disappearance; Bharat's first-class triple ton.

Add to that list - how on earth does a 27 year old Duty know about Fred Trueman hosting Indoor League? Shocked Very Happy

Well the real answer is I've read Trueman's autobiography, and a biography of Trueman by Chris Waters.

Although Tino will tell you it's because I'm actually an 82-year-old masquerading as a 27 year old on the Internet. Very Happy

Laugh OK

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Post by KP_fan Sun 11 Jun 2023, 9:52 pm

msp83 wrote:Those are issues of immediate concern. But there are bigger problems Its an aging lineup overall. Rohit, Pujara, Rahane, Umesh, Ashwin, are all 35 or above and may not have a lot left in the tank. Jadeja and Kohli are also closing in. Of the lot, its only Jadeja and Ashwin who have been performing consistently in the last 2 or 3 years in any case.
Thre is Gill, and young Yashasvi Jaiswal has great potential and a fine beginning to his FC career, and he has shown good big level temperament in the IPL. Sarfaraz Khan has tremendous numbers in FC cricket, but hasn't managed to step up even at  India A level and hasn't grabbed his opportunities at IPL level. Shreyas Iyer is suspect in overseas conditions though he reminds of of an earlier generation when it comes to playing spin. Riyan Parag, Tilak Varma, Yash Dhal. Who all will make the step up? Who among them have the kind of passion for the hard grind of test cricket? India may have to find out quicker than they would ideally have wanted I feel.

That Sarfaraz did  not grab IPL opportunity is not his problem but symptomatic of problem in Indian cricket where test cricket selections are being judged on IPL.

Where is our wider talent pool that can serve us for next 5 years?

Mayank, Eswaran, Jaiswal, KL Rahul and Gill for the opening slots. Gill is by no means a done deal....and IMO all of these should be considered for middle order slots also.
SKY, Sarfaraz, Shreyas Iyer, Ishan Kishen , Pant  all for middle order......
Jadeja could be the next captain
Jadeja, Axar, Washington, Shardul , Bhuvi, Chahar, Shivam dubey , Shahbaz Ahemd, shams Mulani Venkatesh Iyer for bowling / batting allrounders slot
Bumrah, Shami, Prasidh, Malik, Mukesh kumar, Navdeep saini, Shivam Mavi, nagarkoti, Arshdeep ( make him play ranji), Avesh khan, Harshit rana are the pacers

Spinners....Bishnoi has the potential to be like Rashid Khan, Chahar ...others are included in the allrounders list
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Post by alfie Mon 12 Jun 2023, 6:02 am

Indian fans shouldn't be too hard on their team. Australia are still naturally better suited to these conditions ; and coming into this contest with an aging lineup - and missing two very key players in Pant and Bumrah - India were always second favourites.

Do think a bit of rebuilding is called for. But with the depth at their disposal , successfully changing the guard over the next year or two should be well possible.

England touring early next year might see a couple of new faces in the opposition ?

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 12 Jun 2023, 3:34 pm

JDizzle wrote:He was more interested in chatting to an attractive blonde on the boundary than fielding properly for Worcestershire when I saw him at New Road a few years ago though. Therefore I simply will not warm to him no matter how many run a ball 100s he makes!

I recently read the book ''The Unforgiven - Mercenaries or Missionaries?'' by Ashley Gray, concerning the twenty West Indian cricketers who defied international opinion to tour apartheid South Africa in the 1980s and how their lives unfolded. Think you would like it, JD. Carlos and his dad, for sure, would love it!

Anyway, one of the players featured is Bernard Julien, a Trinidadian who was a bowling all rounder for Kent in the 1970s and something of a playboy too. JD's post above about Travis Head certainly has similarities to Gray's comments about Julien:
''When Wes Hall was West Indies team manager in the 1980s, middle-order batsman Gus Logie rememembers the legendary paceman observing that Julien would have been the world's greatest all-rounder ... if only he had been born ugly. And it's said that West Indies captain Clive Lloyd often moved Julien around the field to interrupt his flirtations with women in the crowd and keep him focused on the game at hand. ''

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