Silly Season Transfer Rumours 23/24

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I need rumours.....and I need them now!

Geordie wrote:Will Joseph is off to Gloucester ....

12 Atkinson
13 Joseph

Llewellyn in there as well to add a more powerful option at 12 or 13, I presume Harris is moving on.

Quins have Bradley and Kerr coming through to join Beard, Hyde, Northmore and either Anyanwu or whoever comes into replace him in the summer (rumoured to be Kata).

Rubiolo confirmed to Bristol...

Rugbypass has Freddy Douglas to Bristol as a rumour.

Makes sense for Douglas to look abroad considering the logjam of Edinburgh flankers

Northampton Saints have signed Samoa international Iakopo Mapu until the end of the season.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Quins have Bradley and Kerr coming through to join Beard, Hyde, Northmore and either Anyanwu or whoever comes into replace him in the summer (rumoured to be Kata).

My guess based on the Prem Rugby Cup games is that if Anyanwu does leave then they may promote Bradley rather than recruit a big name externally (though we could still do with a backup specialist 12). He’s a big lad (though currently not running as hard as I’d like) and a better distributor than Lennox. Kerr still looks like he needs time to add a little bulk before he’s ready to step up.

Rumours of players departing have so far not been borne out - Cleaves, Murley, Porter and Will Evans have been announced as re-signing over the past few days. The rumours around Anyanwu, Jibulu and Joseph are a bit more credible as they are tied to specific clubs - but I guess we will see.

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Quins have Bradley and Kerr coming through to join Beard, Hyde, Northmore and either Anyanwu or whoever comes into replace him in the summer (rumoured to be Kata).

My guess based on the Prem Rugby Cup games is that if Anyanwu does leave then they may promote Bradley rather than recruit a big name externally (though we could still do with a backup specialist 12). He’s a big lad (though currently not running as hard as I’d like) and a better distributor than Lennox. Kerr still looks like he needs time to add a little bulk before he’s ready to step up.

Rumours of players departing have so far not been borne out - Cleaves, Murley, Porter and Will Evans have been announced as re-signing over the past few days. The rumours around Anyanwu, Jibulu and Joseph are a bit more credible as they are tied to specific clubs - but I guess we will see.

The link to Solomone Kata last month does make sense.

Yes, if Anyanwu is moving on. I’d happily have Huw Jones back if he felt like a move, though.

Poorfour wrote:Yes, if Anyanwu is moving on. I’d happily have Huw Jones back if he felt like a move, though.

Beard and/or Northmore featuring more at 12 you thinking?

Marchant. Andre. Lennox. I'd imagine that Quins centre losses are feeling a bit similar to rumours of Tigers losing Montoya on the heels of Wiese. Different positions for Tigers, but, similarly the recruitment equivalent of combo punches.

Nope. Beard and Northmore are both 13s and better at wing than they are at 12.

Marchant went because Eddie favoured Slade. Andre leaving is I suspect about being closer to the Boks.

Losing Anyanwu would be a blow, but Quins have proven far better than I could reasonably have expected at managing their talent pipeline to replace seemingly irreplaceable players (and at hanging on to the ones they really need).

Marler has been succeeded by Baxter; Care by Porter (and in time Friday); Robshaw by Evans, Kenningham and CCS; Easter by Dombrandt; Lowe by Marchant and then Northmore and Beard; Brown by Green (and presumably in time Blue, Pink and Black)

Telegraph reports teams are looking to bring former London Irish wing Ben Loader back to the Premiership (he's with the Stormers). While Saracens and Leicester are interested, Gloucester might be in pole position.

Ted Hill rumoured to be checking his grandparents nationality as Borthwick refuses to pick him.

Rugby Fan wrote:Telegraph reports teams are looking to bring former London Irish wing Ben Loader back to the Premiership (he's with the Stormers). While Saracens and Leicester are interested, Gloucester might be in pole position.

I'd love him at Tigers, particularly if Watson is off.

Hazel Sapling wrote:Rugbypass has Freddy Douglas to Bristol as a rumour.

Makes sense for Douglas to look abroad considering the logjam of Edinburgh flankers

Yes please , seems like Pat Lam is a fan of the Scottish game as that's TJ signed and now Freddie Douglas rumoured. Freddie is another I am fairly confident would flourish in that Bristol team that can be a joy to watch at times. They are one of the teams that I enjoy watching because you know you'll be entertained every week they play .

Rugby Fan wrote:Telegraph reports teams are looking to bring former London Irish wing Ben Loader back to the Premiership (he's with the Stormers). While Saracens and Leicester are interested, Gloucester might be in pole position.

You can probably rule out Saracens as Liam Williams has announced he is leaving Japan to head back to the UK. He was doing the rounds with the regions and nobody was able to afford him. Given he has left now though I am guessing this means he must be Saracens bound. Guessing Loader will therefore head to Leicester or Gloucester.....

Kitschoff by all accounts may have to retire on injury grounds.....not looking like he will come back from that neck injury.

Welshmushroom wrote:Kitschoff by all accounts may have to retire on injury grounds.....not looking like he will come back from that neck injury.

Fusion of C1 and C2 vertebrae in his neck.

This would be so so sad if it's the end for Kitshoff's career. He's one of my favourite players in the current game. He's got the physicality to mix it in the tight with the increasingly monstrous props in the modern international game. Yet he has the ruck work, defensive work rate and carrying of many back rows. A simply incredible athlete and rugby player.

It's looking more and more like Lood de Jager may not return either. Two titans of the best tight-five I've seen in rugby.

king_carlos wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Kitschoff by all accounts may have to retire on injury grounds.....not looking like he will come back from that neck injury.

Fusion of C1 and C2 vertebrae in his neck.

This would be so so sad if it's the end for Kitshoff's career. He's one of my favourite players in the current game. He's got the physicality to mix it in the tight with the increasingly monstrous props in the modern international game. Yet he has the ruck work, defensive work rate and carrying of many back rows. A simply incredible athlete and rugby player.

It's looking more and more like Lood de Jager may not return either. Two titans of the best tight-five I've seen in rugby.

Agree with all that and it's a shame. Might make things easier for SAs opponents, or not when you look at their depth chart.

Welshmushroom wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Telegraph reports teams are looking to bring former London Irish wing Ben Loader back to the Premiership (he's with the Stormers). While Saracens and Leicester are interested, Gloucester might be in pole position.

You can probably rule out Saracens as Liam Williams has announced he is leaving Japan to head back to the UK.  He was doing the rounds with the regions and nobody was able to afford him.  Given he has left now though I am guessing this means he must be Saracens bound.  Guessing Loader will therefore head to Leicester or Gloucester.....

He's probably not worth as much as he was though, surprised if Saracens can afford him and want to take the risk.

Is he better than Cam Winnett still? 100% yes, but even the Cardiff lot stopped hyping Cam after the Aus game . I said he wasn't good enough a year ago...

mikey_dragon wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Telegraph reports teams are looking to bring former London Irish wing Ben Loader back to the Premiership (he's with the Stormers). While Saracens and Leicester are interested, Gloucester might be in pole position.

You can probably rule out Saracens as Liam Williams has announced he is leaving Japan to head back to the UK.  He was doing the rounds with the regions and nobody was able to afford him.  Given he has left now though I am guessing this means he must be Saracens bound.  Guessing Loader will therefore head to Leicester or Gloucester.....

He's probably not worth as much as he was though, surprised if Saracens can afford him and want to take the risk.

Is he better than Cam Winnett still? 100% yes, but even the Cardiff lot stopped hyping Cam after the Aus game . I said he wasn't good enough a year ago...

Winnett is only 21 he could yet come good with more development.

Liam Williams needs to find a side with an injury crisis if he's returning immediately. Next summer there might be some options but he'll probably have to head to France unless he's willing to take a squad rotation role like Halfpenny.

Juarno Augustus to join Ulster Rugby on 3 year-deal is to be announced. How do Saints fans feel about that?

Maine man wrote:Juarno Augustus to join Ulster Rugby on 3 year-deal is to be announced. How do Saints fans feel about that?

I can't imagine them being happy. Big ball carrying 8s aren't ten a penny. He's a mobile unit and Ulster fans should be happy with the signing. Only fly in the ointment might be that he's had some niggling injuries restricting his playing time last season and this one so far.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Telegraph reports teams are looking to bring former London Irish wing Ben Loader back to the Premiership (he's with the Stormers). While Saracens and Leicester are interested, Gloucester might be in pole position.

You can probably rule out Saracens as Liam Williams has announced he is leaving Japan to head back to the UK.  He was doing the rounds with the regions and nobody was able to afford him.  Given he has left now though I am guessing this means he must be Saracens bound.  Guessing Loader will therefore head to Leicester or Gloucester.....

He's probably not worth as much as he was though, surprised if Saracens can afford him and want to take the risk.

Is he better than Cam Winnett still? 100% yes, but even the Cardiff lot stopped hyping Cam after the Aus game . I said he wasn't good enough a year ago...

Winnett is only 21 he could yet come good with more development.

Liam Williams needs to find a side with an injury crisis if he's returning immediately. Next summer there might be some options but he'll probably have to head to France unless he's willing to take a squad rotation role like Halfpenny.

Liam Williams signs as injury dispensation for Alex Goode who's had surgery on a quad injury.

Tigers sign Jed Holloway on a short term deal before he heads to the MLS. Carnduff, Chessum Snr, Wells and T Manz are all injured with Henderson and Chessum Jnr returning from lengthy injuries. Leaves Joussain and Martin the only specialist locks fully fit and ready to go, even then Martin will have a mandated rest week from England duty.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers sign Jed Holloway on a short term deal before he heads to the MLS. Carnduff, Chessum Snr, Wells and T Manz are all injured with Henderson and Chessum Jnr returning from lengthy injuries. Leaves Joussain and Martin the only specialist locks fully fit and ready to go, even then Martin will have a mandated rest week from England duty.

Can you give the Welsh lad his debut? Although, he might be more of a back-row player.

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers sign Jed Holloway on a short term deal before he heads to the MLS. Carnduff, Chessum Snr, Wells and T Manz are all injured with Henderson and Chessum Jnr returning from lengthy injuries. Leaves Joussain and Martin the only specialist locks fully fit and ready to go, even then Martin will have a mandated rest week from England duty.

Can you give the Welsh lad his debut? Although, he might be more of a back-row player.

Oisan Thomas? He's only 19 and needs to fill out a bit, which he will do naturally. He's playing BUCS rugby iirc to might be studying as well. He was on the bench for one of the PRC games, not sure if he got on or not. Sending up to Sale who have a big pack might not be the best idea for his development and the games after that aren't any better with a trip to Bordeaux and then the Sharks coming to Leicester.

Maybe if he was in the 19 shirt and we had a couple of experienced senior locks fit but we are pretty short currently.

Teddy Thomas leaving La Rochelle for Toulouse.

Bertranou finds a club after leaving Wales and Signed for LA in the MLR (USA)

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers sign Jed Holloway on a short term deal before he heads to the MLS. Carnduff, Chessum Snr, Wells and T Manz are all injured with Henderson and Chessum Jnr returning from lengthy injuries. Leaves Joussain and Martin the only specialist locks fully fit and ready to go, even then Martin will have a mandated rest week from England duty.

Can you give the Welsh lad his debut? Although, he might be more of a back-row player.

Further to this Beddall is playing openside for Hartbury in the BUCS this week and Thomas was on the bench for Durham.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-wru-sign-30467154?int_source=nba

Not sure if this lad is SQ or not but happened to have found it during NewsNow Scottish Rugby search tonight .

Gloucester and Bristol both looking to sign Mornay Smith from Bulls. Carlu Sadie is joining Bulls from Boradeaux next season.

mikey_dragon wrote:Gloucester and Bristol both looking to sign Mornay Smith from Bulls. Carlu Sadie is joining Bulls from Boradeaux next season.

Both Bristol and Glaws could definitely use a big South African addition at tighthead. Glaws alternative to 20 year old Fasogbon is 37 for instance.

Cooney wanted by Bordeaux and Stockdale by Racing 92. Rumour both have been offered contracts

carpet baboon wrote:Cooney wanted by Bordeaux and Stockdale by Racing 92. Rumour both have been offered contracts

What ever happened to John Cooney being touted as a potential Scotland International, it's gone very quiet on that front ?

Also, Bears sign another Scottish International from Edinburgh so surely we are doing something right if Pat Lam is keen on taking players from our teams : the latest is Jamie Hodgson though it's only until the New Year!

Ilona Maher has been approved by the RFU to join PWR, and signs for Bristol Bears Women. I suppose this is stricly O/T as it's now confirmed and not actually a rumour, so apologies to anyone offended by that.

Highland Shaun wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Cooney wanted by Bordeaux and Stockdale by Racing 92. Rumour both have been offered contracts

What ever happened to John Cooney being touted as a potential Scotland International, it's gone very quiet on that front ?

Also, Bears sign another Scottish International from Edinburgh so surely we are doing something right if Pat Lam is keen on taking players from our teams : the latest is Jamie Hodgson though it's only until the New Year!

Bristol have injuries so it's just to cover those. Having said that Joe Owen the young lock who's come through the West Country semi pro ranks as opposed to academy looked brilliant at the weekend. Bristol might have stumbled across a gem there.

Poorfour wrote:Ilona Maher has been approved by the RFU to join PWR, and signs for Bristol Bears Women. I suppose this is stricly O/T as it's now confirmed and not actually a rumour, so apologies to anyone offended by that.

I think this is a pretty special person: She is an American Rugby player but apparently has about 5 million followers on Instagram. That alone is remarkable and great for Rugby, and especially women's Rugby. And she is getting a fair bit of media attention, which also, is good for Rugby in the US.

Poorfour wrote:Ilona Maher has been approved by the RFU to join PWR, and signs for Bristol Bears Women. I suppose this is stricly O/T as it's now confirmed and not actually a rumour, so apologies to anyone offended by that.

Great news. Maher is a proper star now. She's capitalised on the Olympics and become a genuine celebrity in the states. Arguably the most famous rugby player in the world. Many of rugby's fairly conservative (lower case c...) base might sniff at that as it came from (Women's) Sevens, going viral on social media and now a stint on Dancing with the Stars. She's a brilliant rugby player though and a nearly unique character in the sport who I've always seen as a force for making the sport better. More power to her. I hope she lights up PWR and they dive head first into her high profile.

Women's team sports in the US always seem an as yet untapped market to me. It's just waiting for something to take proper advantage. They have the IX law that means for every boys sports team there must be a girls equivalent. So age grade sport is there. Senior women's sport seems more individual rather than team based though. A lot of the biggest Women's sports leagues are still in the states, mind. They've tried harder than most. The sheer market size there means that leagues can be 'big' without fully taking off. The WNBA (basketball) is the biggest women's league in the world by worth. The WPL (Women's IPL, cricket) became 2nd basically by virtue of existing though. It could very realistically become first and be profitable pretty quickly if the broadcast deals grow as expected.

It's excellent news in terms of promoting PWR and RWC2025 - it will be interesting to see whether her presence has an impact on attendances and viewership.

If it's well handled, there should be a virtuous circle of PWR offering fans a chance to see the potential RWC stars in action and raising interest in the RWC, and then fans following the stars of the tournament back to club level afterwards. Still a long haul for the women's game to be profitable, but there's a real chance to accelerate the growth of the game.

With so many players based in the UK now, I wonder if the teams will organise their warm up games in and around the UK as well. Haven't seen any announcements yet but it seems like a good bet.

Herbst reportedly leaving Harlequins to join Brieve next season....

From Tigers

The club is disappointed to confirm that Corné Beets will not be joining Leicester Tigers this season.

Beets, who was announced in March of this year as a signing for the 24/25 season, will remain in South Africa after visa requirements to allow him to play in the Premiership, were not met.

Despite sustained efforts from the club, the player, and his management, exploring all avenues, securing a visa for Beets is not going to be possible this year, therefore both parties have agreed to terminate the agreement.

Speaking about the outcome, General Manager Richard Wilks said: "Unfortunately, he falls just short of the visa requirements which would have allowed him to join us at Leicester Tigers this season, both parties are extremely disappointed and will continue to be in communication moving forward."

"For now, I want to thank Corné, his management and commend the efforts of all at Leicester Tigers in trying to find a positive outcome and, on behalf of the club, wish him all the best for the future."

Given how much Exeter are struggling this season, they must be relieved Feyi-Waboso is committed to the area for his medical degree.

Rugby Fan wrote:Given how much Exeter are struggling this season, they must be relieved Feyi-Waboso is committed to the area for his medical degree.

Chiefs have got a number of exciting young players coming through. The problem is that they lack top end talent. Baxter has previously been brilliant at bagging bargains and developing players and he still is to a degree. The likes of Sio and Hawkins failing to deliver alongside LCD, Nowell and Hogg all leaving has left the squad a bit barren of stardust.

Chiefs are also operating with one of the smallest budgets in the Prem. The club is run as a business and according to Rowe has only recovered from the impact of COVID to the point he's happy to increase the salary budget. I wouldn't be surprised to see Chiefs add a couple of quality additions next summer and start to come good again.

In recent times IFW, Vincent, Jenkins, Tshinza and Roots have all come through to international recognition. There's a few exciting prospects in the wings as well. Not leas Paul Brown-Bampoe who joined from the BUCS league in the summer and looks almost certain to be a fixture on the opposite wing to IFW. Fisilau at 8 has come through well also. They just need a destructive tighthead and an international quality half back to kick back on again.

Dave Cherry, the Edinburgh hooker, is not getting another contract in the Capital it seems.

It seems he is of interest to Leicester.

At 33 and with a lot of experience and Scotland caps, that might be a good move for both parties.

Edinburgh, rightly enough, want to prioritize bringing through their promising young hookers.

BigGee wrote:Dave Cherry, the Edinburgh hooker, is not getting another contract in the Capital it seems.

It seems he is of interest to Leicester.

At 33 and with a lot of experience and Scotland caps, that might be a good move for both parties.

Edinburgh, rightly enough, want to prioritize bringing through their promising young hookers.

Tigers experienced back up hooker Charlie Clare is out of contract at the end of the season. If he doesn't extend Tigers will want a replacement. Blamire is coming in as the replacement for Montoya and then there's a couple of 22 year olds. The experienced head that the young guys can push past as they develop is a useful squad option.

BigGee wrote:Dave Cherry, the Edinburgh hooker, is not getting another contract in the Capital it seems.

It seems he is of interest to Leicester.

At 33 and with a lot of experience and Scotland caps, that might be a good move for both parties.

Edinburgh, rightly enough, want to prioritize bringing through their promising young hookers.

Did anything come out in the wash eventually with the rumours around why Cherry was sent home from the RWC? What I heard in Edinburgh ranged from him being hammered and falling down the stairs, to getting in a fight with teammates, to throwing very troubling abusive remarks at a teammate during said fight. All went quiet after a ton of rumours when he first went home. He was immediately hurled out the Scotland picture by Toonie whatever happened.

There were a few rumors flying around, some of them not very pleasant about, but the fact that he is still playing fir the SRU suggests those were likely a bit far fetched.

I think the 'falling down the stairs whilst p#ssed on a squad day off' seems to be the generally accepted verdict on it.

Toonie, who you might imagine was furious about the fact that one of his senior players could not stay off the sauce at a WC, probably quite rightly has binned him off.

In truth though, we have better options at hooker now in any case, as have Edinburgh, which is likely why they are not renewing.

For all that he is not a bad player though.

From what's been said by those close to what happened at the WC, he just fell down some stairs whilst pissed, like BG says. When you consider that Toonie already had a go at the like of Finn and Hogg etc about drinking when with the squad, he was always going to come down hard on a player who injured himself by being unable to stay off the drink (or at least in moderation) during what is arguably the most important tournament some of them will ever be in. The other stuff being spread around was purely because he was sent home and it's far more interesting to speculate that he's done something outrageous than simply being drunk and clumsy.

In terms of Cherry he's a solid pro, his darts are generally pretty accurate, and he can get about in the loose. He's fallen down the Edinburgh pecking order with Ashman and Harrison both at the club. Plus, as a (probably former) international he's likely looking for one last payday which he won't get at Edinburgh

Cheers, BigGee and Spoons. The worst of the rumours were really bad indeed, so likely makes sense that he wouldn't have been employed by the SRU still.

When I've seen Cherry recently for Edinburgh (I still live up here though I don't have a season ticket anymore) his form has seemed more subdued though. Do those who have watched more of Edinburgh feel he's still performing well enough?

Depends what you mean by 'performing well enough'.

Well enough to justify a future Scotland call up - no
Well enough to be considered 1st choice at Edinburgh - no
Well enough to be a squad player who can cover when the other internationals are away - probably

With that said, he's never been amazing, he's always been generally a squad player at Edinburgh, he likely wouldn't have had much of a Scotland career had he not managed to sneak in at a time where we were particularly light at hooker. I don't think he's changed much over the years, but we now have better options who are overtaking him.

I wouldn't say he's a player who excites or stands out, whenever he's playing or coming on my natural reaction to him is 'meh'. He's not going to win us games and he's unlikely to lose us games, he just exists.

Wow that feels really harsh doesn't it. From what I understand he's a nice enough lad, just a middle of the road hooker.

Not harsh, just a good write up and basically what I saw of Cherry before I felt his form fell away a bit after the dropping before the RWC.

On balance, I'd probably prefer Tigers to keep continuity by using Charlie Clare as that squad man. Or, go full Moneyball by targeting someone such as Uruguay's German Kessler. I love the idea of a Cherry type signing as a stalking horse for Tigers youngers in Finn Theobald-Thomas and Archie Vanes to overtake. I'm just not sure I'd pick Cherry as that player. I'm unconvinced he's better than Charlie Clare now. Though I also feel Clare's impact has declined somewhat. That experienced player to force the kids to develop faster is vital though.

Eli Snyman was never a standout lock in the Prem but I'm a firm believer that him being at Tigers when Ollie Chessum, George Martin and Cam Henderson were coming through forced them to be better players. The much maligned 'journeyman' squad players like that are imperative to youngsters developing. If the likes of Snyman or Cherry are ahead of 20-year-olds who may have much higher ceilings then those kids need to improve beyond them to get game time. Whereas, if squads lack depth, the youngsters get game time simply by being fit when injuries strike. Which isn't an environment that drives development. Chessum at just 20-years-old had to be better than an older and more developed Snyman to start getting game time at lock instead of blindside. So what did Chessum do? He improved, very quickly. I strongly feel that reduced squad depth in the Prem, with academy grads filling that game time just because they are young and cheap, has drastically reduced the week to week quality of the league, hence massively hampered the development of the very youngsters getting exposure to poorer standards.