Scotland RWC Post Mortem and 6N lookahead

Tramptastic wrote:Scotlands chosen tactics were so at odds with where their greatest wins have come from in the past decade - a strong kicking game.

Dismantling England in 2018? strong kicking game, manipulating the backfield until space opened and Finn could fire the ball into space. Hogg and Russell dominated the tactical kicking. The same again in 2021, 22 and 23.

The last time Scotland beat Ireland was in 2017. Again, a solid kicking game combined with some neat set piece plays to get points on the board.

France multiple times over the past 5 years. The big wins have come from solid defence, manipulating the backfield and counter attacking when space opens up.

It's frustrating because as soon as those wins happen we think "oh fab, we've got our groove back, its pragmatic but opens up space and allows for silky running and passing into space. This is us." Subsequently Scotland then go on in the next tournament to throw ALL of it out the window and declare "we don't need pragmatism, we have the fastest running rugby of all time".

My favourite Scotland game of the past decade isnt the 38-38 draw at twickenham or even the 6-11 win at twickenham. Its the 25-13 win at home against England. Scotland dominated every facet of play in a mature, physical, dynamic manner and played the ball when it was on. Smart and in control for 80 minutes, they never looked like losing.

So the players can play that way. The coaches can instruct them to play that way. They can win that way. Why the hell, after 2019 RWC, are we STILL trying to play like that? eurgh.

And for all the pundits saying "we cant play like SA or Ireland do because we don't have the player size" - absolute tosh. Our pack weight variance is within the realms of a couple of kilos. Against Ireland our pack was heavier by 5kgs! The boys are large enough, get em coached to be more dynamic in the contact area.

bsando wrote:I’d happily wait for Clark Laidlaw. He seems like a brilliant future option.

Tramptastic wrote:Scotlands chosen tactics were so at odds with where their greatest wins have come from in the past decade - a strong kicking game.

Dismantling England in 2018? strong kicking game, manipulating the backfield until space opened and Finn could fire the ball into space. Hogg and Russell dominated the tactical kicking. The same again in 2021, 22 and 23.

The last time Scotland beat Ireland was in 2017. Again, a solid kicking game combined with some neat set piece plays to get points on the board.

France multiple times over the past 5 years. The big wins have come from solid defence, manipulating the backfield and counter attacking when space opens up.

It's frustrating because as soon as those wins happen we think "oh fab, we've got our groove back, its pragmatic but opens up space and allows for silky running and passing into space. This is us." Subsequently Scotland then go on in the next tournament to throw ALL of it out the window and declare "we don't need pragmatism, we have the fastest running rugby of all time".

My favourite Scotland game of the past decade isnt the 38-38 draw at twickenham or even the 6-11 win at twickenham. Its the 25-13 win at home against England. Scotland dominated every facet of play in a mature, physical, dynamic manner and played the ball when it was on. Smart and in control for 80 minutes, they never looked like losing.

So the players can play that way. The coaches can instruct them to play that way. They can win that way. Why the hell, after 2019 RWC, are we STILL trying to play like that? eurgh.

And for all the pundits saying "we cant play like SA or Ireland do because we don't have the player size" - absolute tosh. Our pack weight variance is within the realms of a couple of kilos. Against Ireland our pack was heavier by 5kgs! The boys are large enough, get em coached to be more dynamic in the contact area.

Poorfour wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:Scotlands chosen tactics were so at odds with where their greatest wins have come from in the past decade - a strong kicking game.

Dismantling England in 2018? strong kicking game, manipulating the backfield until space opened and Finn could fire the ball into space. Hogg and Russell dominated the tactical kicking. The same again in 2021, 22 and 23.

The last time Scotland beat Ireland was in 2017. Again, a solid kicking game combined with some neat set piece plays to get points on the board.

France multiple times over the past 5 years. The big wins have come from solid defence, manipulating the backfield and counter attacking when space opens up.

It's frustrating because as soon as those wins happen we think "oh fab, we've got our groove back, its pragmatic but opens up space and allows for silky running and passing into space. This is us." Subsequently Scotland then go on in the next tournament to throw ALL of it out the window and declare "we don't need pragmatism, we have the fastest running rugby of all time".

My favourite Scotland game of the past decade isnt the 38-38 draw at twickenham or even the 6-11 win at twickenham. Its the 25-13 win at home against England. Scotland dominated every facet of play in a mature, physical, dynamic manner and played the ball when it was on. Smart and in control for 80 minutes, they never looked like losing.

So the players can play that way. The coaches can instruct them to play that way. They can win that way. Why the hell, after 2019 RWC, are we STILL trying to play like that? eurgh.

And for all the pundits saying "we cant play like SA or Ireland do because we don't have the player size" - absolute tosh. Our pack weight variance is within the realms of a couple of kilos. Against Ireland our pack was heavier by 5kgs! The boys are large enough, get em coached to be more dynamic in the contact area.

Written like a true back… I would say that that win was also built on recognising that England’s back row were relatively slow and dispersed across the field. Scotland repeatedly allowed England’s big ball carriers an extra yard in the carry, so that they would land behind the Scottish line and give Watson and Ritchie (IIRC) an extra half second to win the turnover. It forced Eddie to rethink England’s breakdown approach and personnel and ultimately led to an RWC Final, so thanks - we needed that.

I’ll also add that you had a wee bit of help from Nige, who forgot that the Laws had changed over the summer and penalised Farrell for holding on when he should have penalised Hogg for entering (as first man in) from the wrong side early in the second half. That was at the end of a promising break from which England would probably have scored and taken the lead without the turnover - something that might have changed the direction of the game.

Still even the best refs make mistakes, even if I appear to be the only person in the world who noticed it.

RDW wrote:One of these days I'd quite like to get to the end of a major Scottish rugby campaign and not have to rename the thread 'post mortem '

king_carlos wrote:Roebuck was reportedly contacted by Borthwick and Townsend over the summer but wasn't named in eithers training squad before the warmups. There are rumours that Townsend wanted to pick him but he held out for a chance with England. Just rumours at this point though.

He's certainly played well enough at the back end of last season and the start of this one to be in the England frame though. Particularly if May is moved on and Daly switches back to 13 when Marchant becomes unavailable whilst in France.

bsando wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Roebuck was reportedly contacted by Borthwick and Townsend over the summer but wasn't named in eithers training squad before the warmups. There are rumours that Townsend wanted to pick him but he held out for a chance with England. Just rumours at this point though.

He's certainly played well enough at the back end of last season and the start of this one to be in the England frame though. Particularly if May is moved on and Daly switches back to 13 when Marchant becomes unavailable whilst in France.

If true that he is holding out for England then please keep him. Redpath had a strong link to Scotland and losing him would have been pretty gutting. Roebuck as I’m aware was born in Inverness… these are the type of selections I’m not a fan of now we have a better side. We need to give our own brood a chance and avoid chasing these types of player, no matter how promising they may appear. I’m still all for catching players like VDM, Schoeman, etc who commit and show passion to Edinburgh and Scotland. Those who play the game however are best avoided if you ask me. That is more down to Townsend than the player.

Enquiry failed, good that he asked, move on.

jimbopip wrote:I just read this in an article about Fin Smith,

Both his parents, a lawyer and a nurse respectively, are Scottish and his grandfather, Tom Elliot, a Borders farmer, propped for Gala, Scotland and the British & Irish Lions. “The Scotland thing is something I could turn to in the future but, for now, I’m doing my best to hopefully get into the England squad and get picked one day for them.”

He better hope he gets an England cap...with that attitude he shouldn't be considered for Scotland.

bsando wrote:Healy for me is a much better player, so even if smith did swap to Scotland he’d be third or fourth choice. He would need a few more seasons to establish himself before he got some more meaningful game time. Injuries could play a part, but Scotland don’t really need another fly half for the upcoming six nations with Russell, Healy and Kinghorn all firmly established.

Then you look at England, they’re crying out for a player like Fin Smith.

BigGee wrote:If anyone is thinking about going to see the Italy v Scotland game in Rome next march, a highly recommended trip, tickets are currently being heavily discounted on a Black Friday promo.

We just picked up 110 euro seats for 75 euros. There are a good variety of prices of tickets available still around the ground, it does not usually sell out.

Plane tickets are very expensive to Rome over that weekend but again, there are alternatives. Flying to Milan or Naples, where we are going to, is much cheaper and Italian high speed trains are very fast and cheap compared to what we are used to paying.

You could of course just take a longer break in Italy which is also never a bad option!