2nd RWC 2023 semi-final England v South Africa

First topic message reminder :

Having just watched that awesome match with France and seeing the SA players, with family, parade around the ground I can't help feeling that our main hope of not being thrashed lies in their complacency. They will go in as massive favourites and rightly so. England will be fighting for their very lives to avoid humiliation and this often brings out the best in teams. I don't think it will be enough, but it might help keep the score to below 45.

Realistically do we have a prayer?

All have more rounded games than Radwan though. Kolbe and Arendse can play fullback. Kolbe has even played 10. Penaud is one of the most rounded wingers I've seen. Capuozzo is a 15 by trade.

I was a massive fan of Radwan early on. It feels like a lot of his game stood still though. Things like high ball work, kicking and passing seem basically the same as when he broke through. Early on I thought his game looked rounded for a young tearaway. He can tackle and threw several decent passes for assists. It's just not really progressed though. I often think the difference in their all round games can be significant when he's on the opposite wing to Carreras.

The only international wings I can think of with similar weaknesses to Radwan are the absolute powerhouse ones. Duhan. Koroibete. Tuisova as a wing. Players who offer better carrying in traffic than most forwards.

I'd rate Arundell, Murley and Freeman as better prospects currently.

mountain man wrote:Well in fairness England although not playing well are only unbeaten side so far. Yes the opposition not strongest but the old cliche still applies. If SA demolish them tonight maybe tune will change but so far can't really blame media for being supportive.

As if by magic Woodward criticises Jones.

Crunch time

I’m going for a SA Win by 12

Are we there yet?

The team are really wanting to create an underdog story. Not sure where these predictions of them not getting out of the group are coming from. Someone's imagination.

Expect SA to win comfortably, though perhaps not as comfortably as NZ did over Argentina.

For England to win it'll require a fast start, some players to have the game of their lives, and strong discipline at the breakdown. Or maybe a red card for the men in green early on.

No 7&1/2 wrote:The team are really wanting to create an underdog story. Not sure where these predictions of them not getting out of the group are coming from. Someone's imagination.

After the loss to Fiji, it wasn't so difficult to entertain the possibility we might lose to Samoa. That could have seen us out at the pool stage if we also lost to Argentina.

king_carlos wrote:All have more rounded games than Radwan though. Kolbe and Arendse can play fullback. Kolbe has even played 10. Penaud is one of the most rounded wingers I've seen. Capuozzo is a 15 by trade.

I was a massive fan of Radwan early on. It feels like a lot of his game stood still though. Things like high ball work, kicking and passing seem basically the same as when he broke through. Early on I thought his game looked rounded for a young tearaway. He can tackle and threw several decent passes for assists. It's just not really progressed though. I often think the difference in their all round games can be significant when he's on the opposite wing to Carreras.

The only international wings I can think of with similar weaknesses to Radwan are the absolute powerhouse ones. Duhan. Koroibete. Tuisova as a wing. Players who offer better carrying in traffic than most forwards.

I'd rate Arundell, Murley and Freeman as better prospects currently.

Ah I'm not sure Radwans weaknesses are as vast as people are making out. His defence is solid, his high ball is not an issue and the only thing he doesn't really do is kick.

But its irrelevant anyway as they've clearly marked Arundel as one of the wingers to develop and Murley may well come in.

Rugby Fan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:The team are really wanting to create an underdog story. Not sure where these predictions of them not getting out of the group are coming from. Someone's imagination.

After the loss to Fiji, it wasn't so difficult to entertain the possibility we might lose to Samoa. That could have seen us out at the pool stage if we also lost to Argentina.

That's fine....I just didn't see any predictions saying england were going out in the group. Perhaps I missed them and I'm doing the team a disservice.

tigertattie wrote:Crunch time

I’m going for a SA Win by 12

Sadly I see a bigger gap....but I just want to see them have a right go...and the likes of Geofge Martin put in a performance show he really can be the bruising lock we're looking for.

20 point win for SA but England to be competitive

Farrell singing 'God Save the Queen'.

Good start!

Hope this goes better than the cricket...

Is Itoje wearing Mocassins on his feet?

Well we're not getting nilled.

Solid start for England

As good a start as England could hope for. Solid first scrum, contesting everything in the air from well weighted box kicks, and putting pressure on the opposition lineout.

Early yet but I am liking this start by England ! Scrum holding up well...

That's taken back in but England have got away with it big time after the box kick on the full.

Good start generally though.

Getting quite lucky on those defensive mauls. They're moving sideways then the forwards are rejoining on the ball carrier. I suppose if you can get away with it keep doing it.

It's winding South Africa up, so I'll count it as a success.

Very stop-start game thus far.

Owen Farrell very lucky there, a lot of referees would have thought about a yellow or moving that kick forward there, needs to learn to shut his mouth

Ouch. We're getting the right side of the ref though. No arm there from Martin.

Now that was annoying ...silly ill discipline getting a call reversed. But they've defended well again... No more of those please...

They're getting under the skins of the SA...

George Martin having his best game...right on cue.

It's going to be a yellow Owen if you keep it up

neilthom7 wrote:It's going to be a yellow Owen if you keep it up

He had a point though. Anyway he does need to manage the ref a bit better.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ouch. We're getting the right side of the ref though. No arm there from Martin.

Think how close the contact was helped him.

Farrell really is a muppet. Give SA the ball and walk away instead of crying like you’re Dan Biggar or Johnny Sexton

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ouch. We're getting the right side of the ref though. No arm there from Martin.

Pfft plenty of wrap. The force of the contact bounces him out of it. Martin was brought in for exactly those kind of big hits.

Farrell needs to shut his mouth

Farrell has a point, but he needs to calm down or be subbed off. England have done well with the referee so far, but Farrell risks undermining that.

SA happy to kick for 3. That's a credit to England's defence so far.

tigertattie wrote:Farrell really is a muppet. Give SA the ball and walk away instead of crying like you’re Dan Biggar or Johnny Sexton

Farrell is to pumped up for this. Becoming a liability.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ouch. We're getting the right side of the ref though. No arm there from Martin.

Pfft plenty of wrap. The force of the contact bounces him out of it. Martin was brought in for exactly those kind of big hits.

Left arm. No attempt. Big hits are risky. As they tend not to be tackles.

Great commitment from lawes there

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ouch. We're getting the right side of the ref though. No arm there from Martin.

Pfft plenty of wrap. The force of the contact bounces him out of it. Martin was brought in for exactly those kind of big hits.

Left arm. No attempt. Big hits are risky. As they tend not to be tackles.

You don't have to wrap with both arms. Common misconception. His right has a clear wrap.

Big Courtney really is a class player isn't he.

king_carlos wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ouch. We're getting the right side of the ref though. No arm there from Martin.

Pfft plenty of wrap. The force of the contact bounces him out of it. Martin was brought in for exactly those kind of big hits.

Left arm. No attempt. Big hits are risky. As they tend not to be tackles.

You don't have to wrap with both arms. Common misconception. His right has a clear wrap.

Oh. Never knew that. All good then.

Teams need to be wiser competing jackals when there's a tackler on the way. If England don't turn that over they probably get away with the tacklers rolling. The Boks then have slow ball.

Lawes having a blinder so far. Just think if England had used the ball quicker after that last SA error, it may have been more than 3 points.

Two SA lineouts have been called for not being straight so far. A reward for England's pressure.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ouch. We're getting the right side of the ref though. No arm there from Martin.

Pfft plenty of wrap. The force of the contact bounces him out of it. Martin was brought in for exactly those kind of big hits.

Left arm. No attempt. Big hits are risky. As they tend not to be tackles.

You don't have to wrap with both arms. Common misconception. His right has a clear wrap.

Oh. Never knew that. All good then.

Tackles with one wrapped often see the other arm doing something illegal. Shoulder charge, swinging arm, etc. Hence the misconception that you need to wrap with both. Penalised tackles often have one arm wrapping but that's not why they're pinged. Explaining that as a ref during a heated match isn't fun.

I can't imagine that Rassie and Co are happy with this. Expecting subs shortly after half time unless there's a significant change.

England have an impact bench as well.

Fascinating game.

SA feeling the affects of the French game?

king_carlos wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ouch. We're getting the right side of the ref though. No arm there from Martin.

Pfft plenty of wrap. The force of the contact bounces him out of it. Martin was brought in for exactly those kind of big hits.

Left arm. No attempt. Big hits are risky. As they tend not to be tackles.

You don't have to wrap with both arms. Common misconception. His right has a clear wrap.

Oh. Never knew that. All good then.

Tackles with one wrapped often see the other arm doing something illegal. Shoulder charge, swinging arm, etc. Hence the misconception that you need to wrap with both. Penalised tackles often have one arm wrapping but that's not why they're pinged. Explaining that as a ref during a heated match isn't fun.

Think it's cos the laws say arms have to wrap. Given if 1 doesn't I've always considered that arm,singular.

Oh dear, pulled after half an hour. Ouch

LeinsterFan4life wrote:SA feeling the affects of the French game?

Possibly but England putting them under pressure too

England should call a scrum from the mark, that would really get into Bok heads

Fly-half change for SA. Not sure why though.

Libbok made the scape goat for SA being pretty pish

Collapse2005 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:SA feeling the affects of the French game?

Possibly but England putting them under pressure too

Agreed. SA are anything but unbeatable