2nd RWC 2023 semi-final England v South Africa

First topic message reminder :

Having just watched that awesome match with France and seeing the SA players, with family, parade around the ground I can't help feeling that our main hope of not being thrashed lies in their complacency. They will go in as massive favourites and rightly so. England will be fighting for their very lives to avoid humiliation and this often brings out the best in teams. I don't think it will be enough, but it might help keep the score to below 45.

Realistically do we have a prayer?

neilthom7 wrote:Oh dear, pulled after half an hour.  Ouch

Bit harsh if you ask me

Oh Billy.

Just think it's a doughnut. You'll grab it then...

Neither 10 having the best game in fairness.

Two big errors there from Daly and Vunipola. England's defence was in panic mode, but SA didn't fully capitalise. Just the three. For England to win they need so much to go right, and that error count has been increasing in the last ten minutes.

Billy needs binned after this world Cup.

Surely Mercer or Tillis (KC ) would be better.

In fact is Ludlum injured? He must be...i xant see how Billy would be there if Ludlum was fit.

Lawes been superb. Steward as ever imperious under high ball. Farrell kicking v good but needs to get OKeefe onside.

Collapse2005 wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Oh dear, pulled after half an hour.  Ouch

Bit harsh if you ask me

He was poor but I don't think it was just about him more the coaches seeing what kind of game it's going to be and deciding he wasn't going to be the man for the job

Quite how Billy in 23 in place of Ludlum is a mystery only Borthwick knows.

Rassie waiting in the tunnel for the ref

SA seem to be playing very careful and not trying what they’d usually try. It’s not working for them.

Mitchell has done really well this half

Well the normal tactics of kick and hope for mistakes is working so far. Maybe Borthwick is a genius.

Oh ben what have you done there.

Mitchell been really good. Blows hot and cold but when he's on it he's really good.
Game on. I'd have taken an Eng lead at half time before kick off!

Mr Bounce wrote:Mitchell has done really well this half

Very good box kicking especially on exits

Quite how Billy in 23 in place of Ludlum is a mystery only Borthwick knows.

Really good from England. They've got a clear, structured gameplan and they're applying it well.  They've disrupted SA's lineout, put good pressure on their kickers, kicked well themselves, and the restarts have been excellent. As a bonus the scrum is working well. Full credit to Lawes, Martin, Earl, Steward and Mitchell so far.

However the lead is only 6 and SA have a very powerful bench.

SA have looked a little rattled and not taken their chances so far. Interesting second half in store. England are in the fight and that's all we can ask for.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well the normal tactics of kick and hope for mistakes is working so far. Maybe Borthwick is a genius.

Ah give it a rest 7.5

They're doing really well just at least admit it.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:Mitchell has done really well this half

Very good box kicking especially on exits

He's been very good indeed. Box kicking bang on. Taking the right options. Also been a valuable member of the back field in kicking. Taking one high ball very well, leaving the other wisely to usher Willemse into touch.

mountain man wrote:Quite how Billy in 23 in place of Ludlum is a mystery only Borthwick knows.

It makes me think Ludlum must be injured

Geordie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well the normal tactics of kick and hope for mistakes is working so far. Maybe Borthwick is a genius.

Ah give it a rest 7.5

They're doing really well just at least admit it.

They're kicking well. And chasing well. Daily has been excellent in that. Didn't think we'd play as well tbh. And that's where Borthwick concerns me we don't lioks a threat whatsoever other than taking 3.

England look good for the win so hope they go on to win it now.

Martin, Itoje and Lawes are really taking it to the boks...and the others are supporting brilliantly.

But another huge 40....let's see if our much vaunted fitness is as good as we hope

Think most England fans would have been happy to take 12-6 at HT in advance. Well worth their lead on the play...might even have been a little further ahead ?

Question being can they keep this pressure up - and how will they cope when those SA subs arrive later,,,

Geordie wrote:

mountain man wrote:Quite how Billy in 23 in place of Ludlum is a mystery only Borthwick knows.

It makes me think Ludlum must be injured

Maybe but he wasn't in 23 for Fiji and as far as I know nothing said about injury. Thought I'd read all squad fit and available?

Anyway, so far so very good.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Geordie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well the normal tactics of kick and hope for mistakes is working so far. Maybe Borthwick is a genius.

Ah give it a rest 7.5

They're doing really well just at least admit it.

They're kicking well. And chasing well. Daily has been excellent in that. Didn't think we'd play as well tbh. And that's where Borthwick concerns me we don't lioks a threat whatsoever other than taking 3.

Break down superb...

What do you expect of a team that was in absolute dissaray under the last part of Jones tenure.
Do you think they should be playing like the ABs????

The attack will come...you have to get the basics right...and it's slowly coming through.

England have done what they'll have wanted to. Turn it into a dogfight. Their kicking and chasing has been very good indeed. As has their reception of the Boks kicking game.

I honestly worry that having executed an admittedly limited game plan that efficiently for the first half they needed more than a 6 point lead.

Both sides have decent benches. The Boks have already used one of theirs earlier than they wanted. England's forwards shouldn't have been worn down by the scrum as the Boks usually manage to. I'm expecting Kwagga and Faf in particular to have massive impacts. England will need the likes of Chessum, Genge and Sinckler to do similar.

A word for England's maul defence too. Such an unfashionable part of the game but without it being hugely improved under Borthwick the Boks could easily have got penalties from some of those well set mauls, kicked down field for another lineout, maul, penalty, etc. It's improved out of sight compared to the end of EJs reign. Lineout defence is as good as it's been since Kruis retired.

Geordie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Geordie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well the normal tactics of kick and hope for mistakes is working so far. Maybe Borthwick is a genius.

Ah give it a rest 7.5

They're doing really well just at least admit it.

They're kicking well. And chasing well. Daily has been excellent in that. Didn't think we'd play as well tbh. And that's where Borthwick concerns me we don't lioks a threat whatsoever other than taking 3.

Break down superb...

What do you expect of a team that was in absolute dissaray under the last part of Jones tenure.
Do you think they should be playing like the ABs????

The attack will come...you have to get the basics right...and it's slowly coming through.

Well given the weather today I wouldn't really expect much more from any team tbf. This weather and the Argentina situation are pretty much suited to tight game and kick and hope.

I don't have any confidence though that well ever develop beyond these tactics.

Who cares if they win RWC?

mountain man wrote:Who cares if they win RWC?

That goes back to my view that entertainment matters too.

Even the people here and you are all club rugby fans too are hoping that Borthwick starts to do things very differently.

mountain man wrote:Who cares if they win RWC?

7.5 does...

So frustrating. 6 points up, 5m line out. Huge chance fluffed.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mountain man wrote:Who cares if they win RWC?

That goes back to my view that entertainment matters too.

How is this not entertaining if you're SA or English? You're living every big hit, every set piece, every penalty etc.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mountain man wrote:Who cares if they win RWC?

That goes back to my view that entertainment matters too.

How is this not entertaining if you're SA or English? You're living every big hit, every set piece, every penalty etc.

Are you not entertained?

Yep, can't afford that. Great chance to go 13 points up squandered. All after a superb kick from Farrell.

SA's replacement policy seems to be: one error and you're off!

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mountain man wrote:Who cares if they win RWC?

That goes back to my view that entertainment matters too.

Even the people here and you are all club rugby fans too are hoping that Borthwick starts to do things very differently.

You've got to be kidding....your not entertained by this?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mountain man wrote:Who cares if they win RWC?

That goes back to my view that entertainment matters too.

How is this not entertaining if you're SA or English? You're living every big hit, every set piece, every penalty etc.

I genuinely find these games interesting. Maybe I'm just sad.

king_carlos wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mountain man wrote:Who cares if they win RWC?

That goes back to my view that entertainment matters too.

How is this not entertaining if you're SA or English? You're living every big hit, every set piece, every penalty etc.

I genuinely find these games interesting. Maybe I'm just sad.

These games are epic if you have vested interest

king_carlos wrote:So frustrating. 6 points up, 5m line out. Huge chance fluffed.

Compounded the error. Doubly frustrating. I really hope that's not a turning point to look back on ruefully.

Etzebeth off early!

Geordie wrote:

mountain man wrote:Who cares if they win RWC?

7.5 does...

It was more a rhetorical question. I've said a 1000 times I'd rather win playing well but win is by far the thing that matters most. Certainly in RWC.

Etzebeth off?

Another error from Daly under the high ball after George's 'interesting' line-out throw.

Geordie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mountain man wrote:Who cares if they win RWC?

That goes back to my view that entertainment matters too.

Even the people here and you are all club rugby fans too are hoping that Borthwick starts to do things very differently.

You've got to be kidding....your not entertained by this?

It's always slightly different when it's teaming it down with rain. I'm not expecting fireworks. But there's so little ambition ball in hand. Its literally kick and chase kick and chase. The nature of a semi final sets the nerves on edge etc but the style of play is a little soul destroying. You talked about Radwan etc before the game for instances...they're never playing for us as they don't excel with this style of game. We should have O Flaherty out there tbh.

England though doing what they need to do to give them best chance of win. All that matters is getting to final

Christ, that was the SA scrum we've all been expecting, but they squandered the chance from it.

Great drop goal that. And that's one thing I'll repeatedly praise Borthwick for the practicing of the drop goals,the practicing of lineout throws by backs....that's great.

Great drop goal ! 15-6

Feck me, what a drop goal.

Two scores ahead...

That didn't look straight.

Farrell has been taking lessons off his old pal Ford. Great drop goal.

Well done England. Good luck in the final.