The 2023 Cricket World Cup

First topic message reminder :

The ICC apparently changed the Champions Trophy qualification rules in March 2021.

It's just they never told anyone about it, never made a media release, and hence most teams were unaware of the alteration until yesterday.

I'll revise my question from yesterday to: Who on earth makes a change to the qualification format of a supposedly major competition and doesn't bother to tell anyone?

Duty281 wrote:Brainless from Moeen. Taking on Zampa like that.

Nearly all over.

Fixed it for you.

Mo had to go I think. But the batsmen before him have the bigger questions to answer

No real excuse not to get Brook, Atkinson and Carse in for the last 2. Not that they're changing the fortunes of this team but too many either playing their last tournament, or haven't really earned the chance to finish this tournament on merit

Pace off or slow spin is the requirememt of the moment and Starc is about the only one who doesn't have a slower one
Zampa's last over is dangerous for Eng

The 20-30 extra runs England handed at the end of the innings looking pretty big right now

Went down swinging at least.

The end for England. Perhaps the worst World Cup defence in cricket history? Said it before, won't go over it again, huge rebuild required after this tournament. Will England even make the Champions Trophy?

Aussies through to the semis. But just like 2019 NZ/Pak are batting for the last spot. And that'll give us some tension for a few of these remaining group games.

Also looking like India Vs NZ/Pakistan/Afghanistan and SA Vs Aus

Wonder if they'd ever add a system where the team that finished higher gets to pick to bat or bowl in the finals

This world cup.produced plenty of middish total that proved competitive or were narrowly.chaadd down
ENG were always behind....Stokes tried hard but is nowhere close to his best and the slower variant of pitches used in this world cup where ball stops aren't suited entirely for his game.
Eng were always behind....Butler and Bairstow appear to be be shot and not playing Brook is a blunder.

AUS on the other hand aren't the great Aussie side but are quite good.....have sowed resilience and depth given that they were missing Maxwell and Marsh today
Their last two games are against BD and AFG whom they might crush and finish 2nd

If Lanka can rise and overpower NZ....Pak wil be favorites to topple Eng.
BD &Eng have now lost 6 out of 7 each

Wooden Spoon Tournament
1) England ...........  2 (-1.504)
2) Bangladesh.......  2 (-1.446)
3) Netherlands......  4 (-1.398)
4) Sri Lanka..........  4 (-1.162)

06th Nov: Bangladesh v Sri Lanka
08th Nov: England v Netherlands
09th Nov: Sri Lanka v New Zealand
11th Nov: Bangladesh v Australia
11th Nov: England v Pakistan
12th Nov: Netherlands v India

BD with 2 games vs Aus snd SL are unlikely to qualify for CT.....they will surely lose to Aus and might at most win vs SL

Eng should win vs Ned and most likely lose to Pak

There is a possibility that BD, Eng. NED and SL might all finish with 4 points each and depending on NRR  2 of them will be eliminated from CT
Although Lanka appears most likely of winning 1 more game to ensure qualification for CT

Brook didn't show much in the outings he did get, but it's baffling that he wasn't selected for more games given how England have struggled with the bat.

Buttler - 7 innings and 106 runs. A high score of 43. Average of 15. Contrast to 2019 when Buttler had 9 innings and scored 312 runs, with a century and two fifties, averaging 35. SR of 94 this year; 123 in 2019.

Bairstow - 7 innings and 141 runs. High score of 52. Average of 20. Contrast to 2019 when Bairstow had 11 innings and scored 532 runs, with two centuries and two fifties, averaging 48. SR of 85 this year; 93 in 2019.

Root - 7 innings and 188 runs. High score of 82. Average of 27. Contrast to 2019 when Root had 11 innings and scored 556 runs, with two centuries and three fifties, averaging 62. SR of 92 this year; 90 in 2019.

Stokes - 4 innings and 112 runs. High score of 64. Average of 28. Contrast to 2019 when Stokes had 10 innings and scored 465 runs, with five fifties, averaging 66. SR of 62 this year; 93 in 2019.

Even Malan, England's most successful batsman at this World Cup with an average of 40, was not an upgrade on the previous opener, as Roy averaged over 60 and scored 160 more runs in the same number of innings in 2019. Roy's SR also being 15 better.

So huge dips across the board from this year's main top five and will be interesting to hear the fallout. I, rather embarrassingly now (!), rated England as my pre-tournament favourites, but in my defence I think a lot of people were expecting them to make the semis at the very least, so I think we'll all be shocked at England managing 6 defeats out of 7 thus far.

India v South Africa tomorrow. India can seal 1st with a win and, potentially, set up a semi-final with Pakistan. But an Indian loss leaves it open for a potential India v Pakistan final...

The batting underperformance is epic. No one I've seen predicted that.

An interesting point from George Dobell about how England develop white ball bowlers more generally. Is there a more talented fast bowler than Mark Wood who hasn't developed a slower ball? 10 years as an international cricketer and he hasn't at some point been made to learn what is a really basic white ball skill these days. It doesn't have to be a Tymal Mills type delivery where he's basically bowling a googly at the same arm speed that he bowled over 90mph with. Just bowl a leg cutter. It's rolling your fingers down one side of the ball in release. I adore Wood as a cricketer and character, obviously he hasn't been the main issue here despite some wayward bowling. It's just an interesting thing Dobell brought up that hadn't struck me before.

I hadn't thought about it much before, but come to think of it, it does seem that English bowlers who learn these now very standard white ball skills are either outliers remembered for thinking about the game a bit differently - Howell, Brown and Dernbach or going way back Mascherenas and Holliaoke - or they have done so more on the franchise circuit - Jof and S/Turran.

Duty281 wrote:... I think a lot of people were expecting them to make the semis at the very least, so I think we'll all be shocked at England managing 6 defeats out of 7 thus far...

Perhaps the England team also thought the same and took their semi final spot for granted. It's almost as though they had forgotten they actually had to play some of their group matches to get there. I must admit I'm also a little shocked to witness their string of unexpected performances and how quickly it all fell away. Even though there was still the backbone of the 2019 side, the team as a group just never got going and injuries and selections also didn't help.

I'm still not convinced Australia will go much beyond their semi final either. There didn't seem to be a great sense of urgency in this match when batting and once the openers were gone it was a touch painful (for me... and I'm assuming alfie's brother) to watch them dawdle along losing wickets at regular intervals.

I'm guessing the pitch played some part in that slow progress but I was relieved to see England also scoring slowly on that track... even with the benefit of the dew factor increasing towards the end. Looked like it was almost pouring off the roof in some of those camera shots. I'm glad the meagre Australian total was just enough because any less and England might have scrapped home which could have thrown the final 2 semi final spots into greater disarray.

Australia just feel like they give themselves very little margin for error. If it works they can compete for the tournament but I struggle to see them beat an India or SA with an average effort. Which probably means they will.

A somewhat weakened Australian XI did what they needed to beat England - who actually appeared to play a bit better than they had been doing. Wasn't that much in it really - that 9th wicket partnership for Australia proved important ; and the Aussie outfielding was admirable.
Like PJ I am not sure Australia are all that good ; but they have done really well to come back from those early hammerings to coast into the semis and I wouldn't bet against them turning it on in the finals.
As for poor old England : qualifying for the CT has to be the minimum expectation surely ? They have a good chance , assuming no other shocks like a Bangladesh win : a hopefully big win over The Netherlands (which shouldn't be beyond even this group - remember the record run feast against that same team only a year or two back ?) would probably do the trick. If they can't do that they might all be locked up in The Tower

India does the sensible thing of winning toss and batting first, devoiding SA of their favorite template of bat first
Terrible bowling from.SA, wides and off line...and then Rohit throws away his wicket
The pitch appears barren brown , one that should offer spin and reverse
300 should be a good total and imminently defendable

Pitch is gripping &turning and j would downgrade rhe par to somewhere between 260-275
SA gave too many easy runs in first 10 overs ....but are pulling back thru Maharaj and Shamsi

Big wicket for shamsi gets SKY just as he was getting going...285-5

When Jadeja turns the ball so much that he beats a RHB on the outside edge and clean bowls him.....you know pitch is turning
And it's a 7/10 pitch...though seamers have picked 2 out of 3 so far.
This was a pitch to play Ashwin
Ashwin for Siraj and Shardul for SKY ...giving them.3 seamers and spinners each and both can bat a bit

South Africa making England look competent!

Ridiculous
India is making it's defense of totals look ridiculous
And with retrospective  perspective Eng were the best of the teams chasing.... their 129 runs was  110% more than what Lankans managed and 60% more than what SA managed.

All talk is if
India has peaked too early ?
Is Indian top order going to crumble under pressure of k.o
will law of averages catch up with India?

All those are my fears also
BUT
the glass half full view is that Aus won 3 world cups in row 1999 to 2007 without dropping a game.

A peak doesn't have to last a bit of the tournament....if you are a really good team.
India needs to try and bat first in semis and see off 20 overs without the top order crumbling......put 250 minimum on the board.....275 would be nice and anything above that surplus

India's bowling in in a parallel universe and you'd feel comfortable with them defending even 250....the top order just does not need to collapse.

South Africa obviously thought that was the KO stage!

So it seems almost certain now that SA v Australia will be one of the semi-finals, to be played in 11 days time at Eden Gardens. Australia could pip SA to 2nd place, but I don't think there's any advantage for doing so.

India will almost certainly get a 100% record, because their final game is v the Dutch. But questions will persist over their poor KO record in the last decade, until they prove otherwise.

Just 4th place to settle then.

NZ - 8 points, NRR of 0.398. Pak - 8 points, NRR of 0.036. Afghanistan - 8 points, NRR of -0.330.

Those are the three main contenders.

If NZ get a win over SL on Thursday, then it seems unlikely they will be overtaken, unless Pakistan bat first in their final game and hammer England.

Pakistan would dearly like SL to beat NZ, then all Pakistan would need to do is beat England on Saturday and they should be in the semi-finals. But if NZ beat SL, Pakistan will need a big win to eclipse the NRR advantage currently held by NZ. However, at least Pakistan will know the equation necessary by the time they take to the field.

Afghanistan have one advantage in this race - they've got two games to play, not just one. They win both games and they're certainly through. Though their most likely route to the semi-finals is NZ losing to SL and Pak losing to England, and then they pick up one win over either Aus (Tuesday) or SA (Friday). That would get them there. If either/both of NZ/Pak win their final game, then Afghanistan would likely need to win both of their final games as they're almost certainly not going to get the necessary NRR required from one win and one defeat.

Also not out of it are Sri Lanka and the Netherlands, both on four points. But they need a miracle.

Sri Lanka need to beat both NZ and Ban, and also hope NZ/Pak/Afg lose all their remaining games, then somehow bridge the NRR, which they're currently further off from than Afghanistan. The Netherlands need the same equation, but they have to beat England and topple India.

I've got a sneaking suspicion Pakistan will get through, although I'd love Afghanistan or NZ to make the semis. And 4th place will get to play India in the semi final game. ICC on their knees praying for a India v Pakistan semi-final...

(I suppose there is a minor chance that Australia lose to both Afghanistan and Bangladesh and get pulled into the semi-final battle, potentially missing out altogether, but I think it very unlikely so I haven't given it much consideration. It will be worth considering if Afghanistan beat them on Tuesday).

One other thing I've just noted is that there is a chance of rain for the NZ/SL game. Worth keeping an eye on. All the other relevant matches look dry, but there's a chance of rain spoiling NZ/SL. How cruel that would be on NZ who have already had their 400 score undermined by rain. A NR would open the door wide for Pakistan.

India are the best team and should win the tournament. But any given Sunday, any of the potential finalists can certainly beat them

Wouldn't be putting money on it mind...

Absolutely India are the best team. What makes me hesitant to proclaim them champions is their KO record in global tournaments (both 50 and 20 over) reads three wins and six defeats (zero trophies) since the start of 2014.

And they absolutely cruised both group stages in 2015 and 2019 (13 wins and 1 loss combined), before losing in the semi-finals both times.

India have been exceptional.

Best top order in the tournament - Rohit, Gill, Kohli
Best spinners in the tournament - Jadeja and the new Kuldeep bowling faster, Ashwin in reserve
Best bowler in the tournament - Bumrah

Hardik is a big blow to the bowling/batting depth but even that has facilitated getting Shami into the teams who has been brilliant and has an absurd CWC record. On top of those 'best in the tournaments' above I'd say that Bumrah, Shami and Siraj now look like the best seam attack.

All of this whilst sadly missing Rishabh too.

If they lose in the semis then it'll be fascinating to hear the reasoning for why KO games are now a best of three affair.

Or no KO games at all. The World Cup just becomes a straight league format.

Duty could go for another month of this group phase (it probably does go for another month)

Duty281 wrote:

If NZ get a win over SL on Thursday, then it seems unlikely they will be overtaken, unless Pakistan bat first in their final game and hammer England.

If NZ win narrowly say in 49th over chasing SL score
then Pak would need to beat Eng by 105 runs or chase down Eng total in 29 overs to qualify

king_carlos wrote:  

If they lose in the semis then it'll be fascinating to hear the reasoning for why KO games are now a best of three affair.

there is already talk of making the world cup KOs similar to IPL which is as follows
You can bet if India is Knocked Out in semis........not even the world cup but CT might see this format

In the first phase, the top two teams will play each other in Qualifier 1, with the winner progressing directly to the final. In the Eliminator the third and fourth-placed teams face off, with the loser knocked out and the winner progressing to play the loser of Qualifier 1 in Qualifier 2.

SL v BD

there is something in this Delhi pitch for the seamers
light cover of green grass left on the pitch binding it and making it hard.
Same pitch was used in the Ind-Afg game....where Afg put 279 whihc incidentally is the highest score against Ind in the tournament.

I would put 315ish as par....but Lanka should be in with a chance to defend if they can put 275 on board at the very least.....as BD batting not the greatest and with slight dew...seamers should get a bit of assistance
3 wins guarantee CT qualification which is what Lanka would be looking to secure today

Angelo Matthews timed-out for not being able to be ready to face the next delivery 2 min since fall of wicket
first ever in international cricket say commentators

If you ignore that never hit the pad it was a pretty good lbw decision

Someone get the Lord's members some camomile tea after that wicket

Timed out! Absolutely superb scenes. Single handedly saved this world cup

You would've hoped there are enough adults out there to sort it out without escalation. Clearly not

Bangladesh counting down the seconds while Mathews fiddled with his helmet.

Spoiler:

GSC wrote:Someone get the Lord's members some camomile tea after that wicket

They're available at short-notice if Sri Lanka want to hire them to barrack the Bangladeshis.

For references contact Cricket Australia.

Probably a strategy in this to send in some bowlers to be timed out and put the opposing team behind the over rate

Entire Lankan cricket board has been fired by their sports minister.......meanwhile today's game is of little relevance
SL will be remembered if they beat NZ in their last game

Though of one of Asalanka or D Silva bats thru, and tail wags a bit SL could have a handy total to defend

GSC wrote:Probably a strategy in this to send in some bowlers to be timed out and put the opposing team behind the over rate

Or a few of the top 6 if you happen to be called England

Timed out because a strap on his helmet broke... Bangladesh must be desperate.

I know I'm old fashioned ; but honestly having trouble enjoying some of this modern cricket. Wonder what odds on a Mankad later on...

Duty281 wrote:Bangladesh counting down the seconds while Mathews fiddled with his helmet.

Spoiler:

Next India game

Spoiler:

alfie wrote:  Wonder what odds on a Mankad later on...

Probability of a Mankad and / or a Carrey...very high

KP_fan wrote:

alfie wrote:   Wonder what odds on a Mankad later on...

Probability of a Mankad and / or a Carrey...very high

I wasn't going to mention Carey

Anyway Asalanka seems to be taking Sri Lanka to a pretty handy total. 262/7 , three overs left. Going to take some seriously good batting for Bangladesh to run it down ; although the Sri Lankan bowlers have struggled against most teams not called England...

Fine hundred for Asalanka

280 to get. Bangladesh's hopeless batting v Sri Lanka's hopeless bowling.

If Bangladesh get over the line then they end this torrid run of defeats and make it a four-way tie, on four points, between the bottom four in the race for CT qualification (got ahead of myself; that's presuming England beat the Dutch in the next!).

If Sri Lanka defend this target then they'll move up to six points and should be virtually secure of making the CT.

Narrowly favouring Bangladesh on this. Teams who have batted first and scored under 300 have lost 70% of the time at this World Cup.

Pitch has bounce and ball coming quite quickly on to the bat i.e it's pacy...to me the fastest pitch seen in this world cup
Madhushsnka and Rajita have been bowling well, Chameera has pace  & angry old Matthews would be spitting fire with the ball as the 4th seam bowling  

SL could have gotten more but have crossed that magical 275 and set a target of 280
Never underestimate the power of 275

What is the point of including a rule specifically for the ICC World Cup if it is never used, or when it is used it it is said not to be in the spirit of the game?  

The official statement was that Angelo Matthews was given out because he was not ready to receive the ball within the two minutes and that time had elapsed even before the strap became an issue for him - the extra time taken regarding the helmet was not relevant in this decision.  

BBC wrote: Fourth umpire Adrian Holdstock: "The ICC World Cup playing conditions supersede MCC Laws of Cricket.

"When it comes to timed out, the incoming batter has to be in position to receive the ball within two minutes.

"The TV umpire monitors the two minutes and he will then relay the message to the standing umpire. In this instance the batter wasn't ready within those two minutes even before the strap became an issue for him. The two minutes had already elapsed.

"According to the playing conditions, the fielding captain requested/initiated to the standing umpire that he wanted to appeal for timed out.

"As a batsman you need to make sure all your equipment is in place. You have to be ready to receive the ball in two minutes, not just take your guard."

Letter of the law he's out as ever. Just think there were enough adults there to tell Matthews to get on with it, he was facing a spinner and then get a new helmet end of over. We want sport to be a test of skill not who memorizes the rulebook better to win on technicalities. Especially given Bangladesh are already out, it's a very cynical and needless thing to do.

Heard about the spirit of cricket enough, just think it's sad Bangladesh feel that's necessary to win