Ulster Discussion Thread

[Kingshu]

First topic message reminder :

In a backrow of Izzy,Timoney and McCann and any Ulster fan will tell you its McCann whos played the best this season. But the other two are the ones called up. It appears that for Ulster players for national selection you are soley judged on the games V Leinster and Munster, the rest of the season the selectors arnt watching. Izzy and Timoney both had great games V them and had some great highlights, McCann was good but no real showreel moments in those games.

[Kingshu]

Ulster: S Moore; W Kok, B Carson, J Postlethwaite, M Lowry; A Morgan, N Doak; E O'Sullivan, J McCormick, S Wilson; A O'Connor, K Treadwell; J McNabney, N Timoney, D McCann.

Replacements: T Stewart, A Warwick, C Barrett, H Sheridan, M Rea, J Cooney, J Humphreys, B Moxham.

Leinster: J O’Brien; J Larmour, L Turner, C Tector, A Osborne; R Byrne, L McGrath; J Boyle, J McKee, R Slimani; D Mangan, B Deeny; M Deegan, W Connors, J Conan.

Replacements: L Barron, M Milne, R McGuire, RG Snyman, J Culhane, F Gunne, H Byrne, S Penny.

[Pete330v2]

We're DOOOOMED

[carpet baboon]

Like the backrow. Would have started Sheridan but I suppose he's the only impact we have off the bench.
Hoping Jude has a big game

[Welshmushroom]

Looks a pretty good Leinster team in this years fixture. I dont fancy Ulster's chances on this one.

[Unclear]

Perhaps we just put this game down as a learning experience ....

[geoff999rugby]

We have a punchers chance.
Remember we have won 4 of the last 6 URC league matches.

The bad news is:
Ulster did the double in 21/22
Leinster did the double in 22/23
Ulster did the double in 23/24
So 24/25 will be......

[carpet baboon]

We have a punchers chance.
Remember we have won 4 of the last 6 URC league matches.

The bad news is:
Ulster did the double in 21/22
Leinster did the double in 22/23
Ulster did the double in 23/24
So 24/25 will be......

........balls

[mikey_dragon]

Looks a pretty good Leinster team in this years fixture.  I dont fancy Ulster's chances on this one.

Slimani and back-row are good for Leinster, and suppose there won’t be a drop-off in their intensity either. Ulster should win it convincingly IMO. If not, there might be something wrong.

[carpet baboon]

I hate it when we start well

[carpet baboon]

That should be a yellow for Conan too.

[carpet baboon]

And probably a red for deeney

[carpet baboon]

Do we have a scrum coach?

[carpet baboon]

Well even without a scrum we were competitive for 71 minutes.
Carson had another good game

[clivemcl]

Surely that’s shocking from the ref on the first half head contact. I mean the way he is shown both incidents and fully ignores one, and then dismisses AOC when he politely enquires. I actually thing one could easily have been red. So we go one yellow which could have been a yellow and a red. Huge difference. I think refs sometimes shy away from double cards because they don’t want ‘ruin the game’.

Injuries are awful. We are in a bad place. Assuming Coonet out now also. We will be scraping the barrel.

[neilthom7]

The fact Ulster brought on Moxham for an injured Werner Kok who then got injured then Cooney played most of the game on the wing before he got injured and had to be replaced by a back row it's fairly remarkable they even kept it as close as they did.  We weren't exactly coming down with options before this game and that is going to make things very difficult going forward.

[carpet baboon]

Zak ward could be getting his European debut sooner than he thought

[Pete330v2]

That game was decimating both squads as it stuttered along and that bloody pitch played a major part. It was an awful idea from the outset and it's madness to retain it. Awful business shouldn't be backed up with more bad business.
Anyway that aside we were competitive and for the most part on par with a decent Leinster side. Yes they were missing their internationals but their "B" team can still stuff most other sides in the URC. Having no scrum is obviously a negative but our defence's improved balanced that out. Sort out the scrum and we might be able to stop watching from behind the sofa.

[geoff999rugby]

I thought Timoney should have been only a penalty not a Yellow Card.
Especially when compared to Conan's deliberate elbow to the head - that should have been a straight Red.
I thought he got the Leinster yellow right - there was a clear change of direction which, just about, warranted mitigation.

If all wingers are missing next week - Postlewaite will probably have to start on the wing.

I am seriously starting to fear for the long time viability of both Baloucoune and Moxham

[geoff999rugby]

Overall that was a very good performance.
Slimani destroyed O'Sullivan and the lack of power around EOS from McCormick and the locks proved too much.
McCormick will be fine he will bulk up - it looks to me Stewart has.
The locks however were weak and the biggest negative on the night.
O'Sullivan was excellent in the loose.

For me 5 players stood out
Timoney
McCann
Doak
Postlewaite - my man of the match (that includes the Leinster players)
Moore

[carpet baboon]

Moore definitely looks like he's matured this year, no more switching off during games. Think fullback really suits him and his left boot.
Stewart has bulked up but at no cost to his athleticism which is good.

EOS bouncing the two Leinster players was just a joy to see, but we need to find a very good scrum coach.

I thought Morgan's kicking from hand was much improved last night, but he still seems to be struggling running the backs. I want to see him taking it to the line more.

Carson is just looking better and better each game.
The backrow had a good game.

Treadwell seemed to start well and made some good carries then just disappeared. Is it his fitness? Or just his concentration?

There was enough good things overall, and most of that is coming from the young lads. We need a few more of the senior players to start showing up each week.

And it sucks for moxham. When he first went down I thought the Leinster player had tripped him, but his leg just went. Not looking good for his long term future

[carpet baboon]

And how Conan didn't get a card in the first half still amazes me. Aswell as the tackle that was ignored he flew into at least two rucks off his feet and in at the side, both of which should have been yellows as they were amazingly reckless.
But he must have applied the invisibility rub before he went on

[Maine man]

Haven't seen any of the game as abroad. What injuries did Ulster pick up?

[carpet baboon]

Kok, moxham and cooney. Moxham looked like a bad knee injury Cooney I think was hamstring and hobbled off.
Kok was a HIA that came from his gumshield warning thing.

So add those three to the backs already out next week's back three will most likely be Moore Lowry and either Poselthwait to the wing or Zak ward. Unless there is an academy back 3 player who is ready for a baptism of fire.

As far as I'm aware no new forward injuries so we should have herring O'Toole Izzy and Hendy back.
But we just need to learn how to scrumage

[carpet baboon]

Cooney and Stockdale have both been offered contracts in France for next year. Bordeaux and Racing92

[Redman]

Cooney and Stockdale have both been offered contracts in France for next year. Bordeaux and Racing92

For Stockdale, his return to form and resultant Ireland recognition has come at a good time for us.  It might be enough of an incentive for him to stay and tough it out for a less generous financial package.  

For Cooney, why not.  He owes us nothing.  That being said I suspect he may stay regardless as he's clearly settled here.  The backlash to the Scottish thing suggests he's quite sensitive to criticism and new environments.  It may be less stress for him to stay on less money.  Still any agent worth his salt will rightly be using other offers to bid up his contact value.  


I would bring this back to the Augustus signing and question whether a bruising No.8 is worth it when next year (and the 2 years after that) we could be one Doak related injury away from Dave Shannon being our starting 9 and no recognised goal kicker.  That same logic can be applied to a host of other positions including the scrum where the handicap appears to be 4 penalties a game for us now.  

The timing as well.  Every player's agent will be bidding for more after that announcement.  It really doesn't make any sense to me.  

Anyway, hope I'm wrong and there's more than enough cash to re-sign Cooney and all the other players in vital positions.

[Redman]

I thought Timoney should have been only a penalty not a Yellow Card.
Especially when compared to Conan's deliberate elbow to the head - that should have been a straight Red.
I thought he got the Leinster yellow right - there was a clear change of direction which, just about, warranted mitigation.

If all wingers are missing next week - Postlewaite will probably have to start on the wing.

I am seriously starting to fear for the long time viability of both Baloucoune and Moxham

On the mitigation we'll have to agree to disagree. I didn't see any noticeable change in direction.

More generally though, it's the stupidest law in rugby. You step just before a tackle and it acts as sufficient mitigation for a tackler to headbutt you? What sort of logic is that?

We want to reward and protect players who can bob and weave. We want players who can step an opponent. To incentivise talent rather than create allowances for lazy and reckless tackle technique. I can understand if there's another tackler involved to create enough doubt but there's no way you can excuse headbutting someone by saying you couldn't have expected that the player would try and avoid the tackle. If there's doubt then don't tackle.

[Pete330v2]

Cooney and Stockdale have both been offered contracts in France for next year. Bordeaux and Racing92

If the offers add up correctly for them both players should go, why wouldn't they?

Cooney is in the twilight of his career and a payday would set him up well for the future, he won't get one here. Stockdale is still going to get precious little time in green to generate extra income so he'd be mad to stay where finances aren't looking like improving any time soon. He's 28 and right back in the form that could keep him in France for long enough to build a nice pension pot.

[carpet baboon]

Cooney I can't see any reason for him to stay, given his age and the finances involved. And fair play to him. Take it while you can.

Stockdale may stay due to the yong family he has, or he may see it as a great experience for them all. Personally I couldn't blame either of them for going, it's a short career so make the most of it.

[carpet baboon]

Well Kok has been passed fit so the back 3 will most likely be as it was on Saturday. Ward is back in training so could make the bench, but I think it will most likely be Stu and Jude in the centers and Carson to the bench.

Moxham's injury was as bad as it looks and requires surgery. Wish him all the best

[geoff999rugby]

Stockdale leaving would be a big surprise and a disappointment.
His place in the sun will come, after the next World Cup.

As for Cooney hope he takes it - he deserves a couple of years of top money.
He has served us proud.

[geoff999rugby]

With Kok fit looks like the backs pick themselves

Doak, Morgan, Kok, McCloskey, Postlewaite, Lowry, Moore
Bench: Shanahan, Humphreys, Carson

The Moxham news is what we feared.
As I stated before I have grave doubts whether there is a way back for him or indeed Baloucoune

[Redman]

Feel for Moxham.

How many victims has the plastic pitch claimed now? Is he the second? Hume the first?

Pretty sure Marty Moore was before the pitch was installed.

[Maine man]

On bbc website, Murphy mentions Rob Lyttle is back training with them. Interesting

[carpet baboon]

He's an experienced URC player and a decent place kicker. With the loss of Moxham and Sexton an extra back 3 player is probably needed.

[geoff999rugby]

Given we will never see Sexton again, we may never see Moxham again
and Baloucoune is debatable

if his attitude is good, and his fitness is good give him a permanent contract

[Maine man]

What's Baloucoune's injury?

[Unclear]

Lyttle back? Great news. In my memory he always gave his all, was a great finisher, and defended well above his (slight) weight. He will be an asset in URC, if not of the highest quality required for Europe or internationally.

I wish Sexton all the best in his new adventure, especially as I don't think he was ever going to make it in professional rugby, but Lyttle is a significant upgrade in my view.

[geoff999rugby]

What's Baloucoune's injury?

Hamstring - it goes regularly.

Been going on for 4 years.

[Pete330v2]

Baloucoune never getting fit again would be a major blow, when on form he's been excellent and rarely missed a tackle so I do hope they can work wonders on him. Moxham's injury must be utterly devastating for the guy, I really do feel for him. He fights back from injury to immediately get injured again, he must be cursing the plastic pitch we inherited from the Scottish grifter. I always thought Moxham is underrated by most, I've always seen a certain X factor with him, a solid squad player at the very least. Fingers crossed for him.

Lyttle's return would be a definite boost, there's always been plenty of X factor with the lad.

[Pete330v2]

Belfast Tele has reported that Cooney has agreed a deal with Brive.
They have quoted L'Equip as their source mind you.

[carpet baboon]

Belfast Tele has reported that Cooney has agreed a deal with Brive.
They have quoted L'Equip as their source mind you.

Fair play to him.
It's a shame Ireland never used him when he was at the height of his powers, but it's fair to say he's been outstanding for us.
Wish him all the best

[carpet baboon]

15. Stewart Moore (72)

14. Werner Kok (7)

13. Ben Carson (6)

12. Stuart McCloskey (193)

11. Michael Lowry (110)

10. Aidan Morgan (7)

9. Nathan Doak (74)

1. Andrew Warwick (201)

2. James McCormick (7)

3. Scott Wilson (19)

4. Alan O’Connor (C) (201)

5. Harry Sheridan (32)

6. Matty Rea (102)

7. Marcus Rea (51)

8. James McNabney (7)

Replacements:

16. Rob Herring (241)

17. Eric O’Sullivan (121)

18. Tom O’Toole (112)

19. Iain Henderson (157)

20. Cormac Izuchukwu (32)

21. Dave Shanahan (94)

22. Jude Postlethwaite (17)

23. Nick Timoney (152)


Errrrr interesting pack.

[Pete330v2]

That starting pack is going to be utterly destroyed by the Toulouse juggernaut. There's little point in bringing on better players from the bench when we're already god knows how many points down and the ref fully on Toulouse's pocket at scrum time. I know we have a lot of injuries but could we not have had Izzy, Timoney and Hendo starting behind O'Toole and Herring with Sheridan in the back row ? At least give the pack a fighting chance. Puzzling

Murphy has written this game off as a loss and is concentrating on the home round clearly but a tanking isn't good for anyone, a complete destruction is far, far worse.

[geoff999rugby]

To be fair treat it as a training session - we are never going to win.
I am away tomorrow and doubt I'll even bother with the result until I buy my Sunday paper.
The way the competition is, badly, run you can write off one, maybe two, games and still do fine.
Given our fixtures this is the one to write off.

Bordeaux far more important/realistic - got the ticket and looking forward to it.

[geoff999rugby]

Belfast Tele has reported that Cooney has agreed a deal with Brive.
They have quoted L'Equip as their source mind you.

Fair play to him.
It's a shame Ireland never used him when he was at the height of his powers, but it's fair to say he's been outstanding for us.
Wish him all the best

Agreed

[Pete330v2]

To be fair treat it as a training session - we are never going to win.
I am away tomorrow and doubt I'll even bother with the result until I buy my Sunday paper.
The way the competition is, badly, run you can write off one, maybe two, games and still do fine.
Given our fixtures this is the one to write off.

Bordeaux far more important/realistic - got the ticket and looking forward to it.

Ahhhh well then you'll be glad to hear it's on Sunday

[mikey_dragon]

That starting pack is going to be utterly destroyed by the Toulouse juggernaut.

Did you play Toulouse last year, or did I imagine that?

[Redman]

That starting pack is going to be utterly destroyed by the Toulouse juggernaut.

Did you play Toulouse last year, or did I imagine that?

At home.  Where we played really well (particularly in the first half) and they still beat us 24-48.

The difference in quality was visible.

[geoff999rugby]

That starting pack is going to be utterly destroyed by the Toulouse juggernaut.

Did you play Toulouse last year, or did I imagine that?

Dupont put in a performance that was as good a scrum half performance as I have ever seen life.

Total class

[geoff999rugby]

To be fair treat it as a training session - we are never going to win.
I am away tomorrow and doubt I'll even bother with the result until I buy my Sunday paper.
The way the competition is, badly, run you can write off one, maybe two, games and still do fine.
Given our fixtures this is the one to write off.

Bordeaux far more important/realistic - got the ticket and looking forward to it.

Ahhhh well then you'll be glad to hear it's on Sunday

As you can see not paying that much interest in the game

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