Ulster Discussion Thread

[Kingshu]

First topic message reminder :

In a backrow of Izzy,Timoney and McCann and any Ulster fan will tell you its McCann whos played the best this season. But the other two are the ones called up. It appears that for Ulster players for national selection you are soley judged on the games V Leinster and Munster, the rest of the season the selectors arnt watching. Izzy and Timoney both had great games V them and had some great highlights, McCann was good but no real showreel moments in those games.

[carpet baboon]

As pointed out earlier Jeremy Davidson is available for next season. I think he would get a lot more out of our forwards.

But also think he would be after a head coaches job. But maybe coming back to Ulster may tempt him.

Or we could see if the other Fogarty brother wants to work with our scrum along side his job with the Irish women's team

But for me we really need to o priorities a scrum coach

[carpet baboon]

Crothers playing for the 'A's so he is fit.


15. Ben McFarlane

14. Lukas Kenny

13. Wilhelm De Klerk

12. Peter Nelson

11. Ethan Graham

10. Dan Green

9. Conor McKee

8. Bryn Ward

7. Reuben Crothers

6. Tom Brigg

5. Joe Hopes

4. Matty Dalton

3. Bryan O'Connor

2. James McCormick (C)

1. Jacob Boyd

Replacements: Jack Boal, Cameron Doak, Flynn Longstaff, James McKillop, Josh Stevens, Michael McDonald, Fraser Cunningham, Josh Gibson, Conor Rankin and Jack Harte.

Looking at this team I would hope by the end of the season that McCormick, Hopes, Ward, Crothers and DeKlerk have had some decent minutes in the senior team, especially McCormick and Crothers.

[Maine man]

I must admit the few times I have seen Crothers play, I was very impressed. Hopefully he'll kick on

[Don Alfonso]

As pointed out earlier Jeremy Davidson is available for next season. I think he would get a lot more out of our forwards.

But also think he would be after a head coaches job. But maybe coming back to Ulster may tempt him.

Or we could see if the other Fogarty brother wants to work with our scrum along side his job with the Irish women's team

But for me we really need to o priorities a scrum coach

Davidson said in his interview with 42.ie (who developed a vague interest in him before Munster played Castres) that he didn't feel ready to come back yet, but did want to eventually. As you say, probably for Head Coach.

[Don Alfonso]

It's as good as our front row gets although O'Toole is no scrummager. John Ryan at LH for them may be a weakness seeing as he's played the vast majority of his career at TH but our front row isn't strong enough to exploit any weakness however slight. As far as centres go I'd say we're stronger at 12 but 13 would be about even, Farrell's good but Postlethwaite should be able to contain him. It's hard to be optimistic but fingers crossed it'll be a cracking game.

Basically two very poor front rows up against each other  

Just emphasises the chasm below Furlong, Porter and Bealham

I wouldn't swap Andrew for either of their hookers and Herring, at least technically, is several notches above all of them. Let's see how their lineout goes.

[clivemcl]

Just seen than Zac Ward has been given a contract. Interesting that they would commit on him for 3 years. I assume it's a combination of them seeing him as a good prospect, and also getting him to agree at the right price.
Either way, fair play to him. What a year 2024 has been for him.

[geoff999rugby]

Don I agree - I was thinking more of the scrummaging abilities rather than the players wider games.

Having said that of all the hookers available Herring is, by some distance, the best of them in the scrum.

However its very hard to be an effective hooker at scrum time when you have a chocolate tea pot either side of you.
Fortunately they are up against Munster versions of chocolate tea pots tonight.

[geoff999rugby]

Just seen than Zac Ward has been given a contract. Interesting that they would commit on him for 3 years. I assume it's a combination of them seeing him as a good prospect, and also getting him to agree at the right price.
Either way, fair play to him. What a year 2024 has been for him.

Sometimes you watch a player and straight away and think to yourself he has something special.

I thought it about Prendergast playing for Ireland
I also thought it about Ward playing for Ulster

They have that little bit of gold dust, sometimes players don't develop, but clearly there is serious potential in both players.

[carpet baboon]

Anyone know the score from the A game?

[Pete330v2]

Ben Whitehouse is aiming for MOTM as usual. More input than any player

[carpet baboon]

So ward signs a contract, gets injured. Such an Ulster thing to do

[carpet baboon]

Well that is the game.

[Pete330v2]

That's not a red under any directive, not a chance. Whitehouse strikes again

[carpet baboon]

Shame for Telfer. Was looking lively in his brief cameo

[carpet baboon]

Are we going to have any players left fit after today??

[carpet baboon]

Do I have enough red wine to get me through this second half???

[Pete330v2]

I don't have enough resolve to watch any more of this Poopie. I'm not sure I can even continue watching anymore until Soper and Bell Frak off. That pair should be embarrassed to have any connection to what they've reduced this side to.

[neilthom7]

Maybe we have to go to Rugby League style and just have no rucks now because I genuinely don't know how someone is meant to clean out a defnder now.

If the defender comes in properly bent over like most do, how is someone meant to legally clean them out.

According to Ben Whitehouse you can't hit from the side cos you could fall on the leg and thats a red card.

You also can't hit them from the front because they are bent over so that would be a shot to the head and that's a red card.

You can't reach over their back and try to maneover them out of the way because that's a croc roll and is illegal too.

So I just don't even know how you do it anymore.

[carpet baboon]

We have to work so hard to score then straight away let the opposition walk in a score.
It's depressing

[carpet baboon]

Well this season is pretty much over. So might as well get as many minutes into the young lads as possible.
And get some decent coaches in to support Murphy.

[neilthom7]

Not a high hit on Kok? Didn't even take a proper look at it. Whitehouse can feel free to never return to Belfast

[Kingshu]

On Jeremy Davidson, he'll want at least a Head coach role, we have RM, so doubt well see him, maybe as DoR, but I also see Lancaster is being released would be nice to get him in as senior coach or DoR, so help Murphy.

As for game tonight, was a very fustrating loss, but when you think on it, 14 man Ulster, with a put together backline, totally dominated XV man Munster.

Again defense was poor, Bell needs moved on, wven bring Willie Faloon in to end of season to see how he goes. Soper great skills coach, not an attack coach move hom back to skills and get an attack coach in.

To be held up twice is criminal, just wastes all the effort from before, the most of the game it was forwarsa picking and going, there was no invention of trick plays or anything to get past the gain line, just gring grind grind, and not turning that territory and position into points cost Ulster, that and the very poor defense on the counter.

[geoff999rugby]

We have to work so hard to score then straight away let the opposition walk in a score.
It's depressing

To be fair by that stage we had a backline with 2 fly halves, Postlewaite the only natural centre and we were one player short.
In those circumstances its hardly surprises.

I was actually proud of the players last night.
After one of the most idiotic Red Cards I have EVER seen that put in a fantastic full hearted performance.
We played the better rugby.
The tea pots upfront cancelled each other out.

Our fill in backrowers played well - Marcus Rea made a couple of really telling turnovers and McNabney gave it his all, McCann good as usual.
Cooney showed what we already know - he is simply a better player than Doak.
Kok and Lowry were superb.
Sheridan is an excellent player - I have absolutely no idea why he doesn't start.
Wilson is a better TH than O'Toole and should start a high percentage of games - he was outstanding last night.

However the player to mention about all is Murphy.
He came on and started to run the show.
The guy is special; I mentioned a few posts back that Prendergast and Ward have the X Factor, so does Murphy.
I stick by my post saying Morgan's kicking is not up to scratch, Murphy immediately came on and took over kicking duties.
This wasn't to see how he goes or parental favouritism it was for the simple reason he is a better kicker - that was apparent from the first time the ball touched his boot.
Not having a go at Morgan but one is a young player with genuine class and the other is a squad player.
You have to be blind not to see that.
Murphy should be our first choice 10 next season.

As to the Red Card.
Whitehouse did not mention any illegality with the clear out.
O'Toole went off balance in the act of making the clear out.
Then Whitehouse said he illegal brought all of his weight down on an exposed leg.
What is he supposed to do - f**king levitate.
Darren Cave, on TG4, was clearly totally baffled by the card.
He wanted to say something like WTF but couldn't (even in Irish)
Whitehouse is a total bumhole

Well done lads, the result was heart wrenching but you did us proud inspite of that

[geoff999rugby]

Anyone know the score from the A game?

We won 26-14

Player receiving particular praise Reuben Crothers, Matty Dalton, Tom Brigg, and Ben McFarlane.

[carpet baboon]

Also on Comms last night it was said the rumour was Treadwell is going back to quins end of the season. Even if Hopes makes the step up next season we will need at least 1 other second row.

[Kingshu]

Murphy since that EI tour Ive had high hopes for, outshown Prendergast in first game when he came on and deserved to start second or third game but IRFU wanted Prendergast getting minutes, I hope he gets plenty more this season. James Humphreys Ive been pleasantly surprised by, wasnt rated that well, but actually appears to be pretty decent.
When Flannery returns from injury, I don't think he'll be back up OH anymore, will be intresting to see.

As for the game, 14 man Ulster didnt just compete with XV man Munster, they dominated them, just not on the scoreboard, new defence coach, and attack coach, another NIQ, and if can get a few decent IQ players this team could really be on the up. Think NIQ will be a lock, young enough to play full 80, and Henderson/Sheridan to partner/bench, not sure who does what though

[clivemcl]

I thought Murphy was a breath of fresh air. Well used to players looking great, then going somewhat off the boil though. So I'll do my best to temper my excitement. I remember storming runs from Scott Wilson when he debuted earlier than many expected. Glad to see from last night he still looks like a huge prospect. But You don't necessarily get than every time he puts on the boots.
Murphy needs considerable game time. And now. To be honest I'd write off Europe and give him a go on that stage. And maybe remain more conservative in the URC having him on the bench.

Final comments - Kok is a workhorse and a ferocious wrecking ball. We'd be even worse this year without him. He's been a very necessary signing, and gives 100% without fail. And Lowry - what the heck is that lad made off? Punches WAY above his weight.

[geoff999rugby]

Another thing that Whitehouse missed was the deliberate kick by Crowley on Kok.

As Crowley took the ball he deliberately kicked Kok, in the shoulder, so that Kok could not nail him with a tackle as Crowley landed.
No way was it a natural action of a playing landing.

Penalty - yellow card

Then again Whitehouse is utterly useless !



On Crowley I thought for the most part he was very poor and his kicking was appalling.
Apparantly he was equally poor last week

[carpet baboon]

Having now watched the game back my initial disappointment of the score has gone and I can only the sheer effort the lads put in when down to 14 was absolutely amazing.
As said above we didn't match the 15 of Munster for large parts of the game we complete outplayed them.

The Crowley boot ok Kok was so blatant. He looked at Kok coming at him then extended his leg. How no one seemed to even look at it is unbelievable.

Anyway onto us
The forwards were to a man relentless. Can't fault any of them.McNabney carried some ball and at times several Munster men.
Wilson needs more time on the pitch but let's not ruin him he's still young.
We seem to be intent on wringing every last drop out of old man Al. And fair play to him he keeps going.
Both the Rea's had their best game in ages. Treadwell played like the player who was getting picked for Ireland again. Just a shame he can't seem to last the full 80.
McCann just keeps doing his thing.

The backs considering a man down for so long did brilliant.
Kok and Lowry are just made of different gravy.
Considering our I juries our next game I would have a backline of
Cooney
Murphy
Telfer
Poselthwait
Morgan
Kok
Lowry.

Think Morgan at 13 could be a revelation

As annoying as the score was I can't fault the team.

Thinking back on some of Murphys U20s teams and how they played I can only make the assumption that the coaching team ain't capable of implementing his game plan as we certainly have the players

[Pete330v2]

I was full of whiskey (only the very best you understand) and utterly gutted on friday night. I'd given up completely but with a clear head and reignited optimism things don't look half as bad.
Negatives:
Ben Whitehouse is a gobsh**e of the highest order, that was never close to a red card. I think he's seen some of the croc rolls that ended in injury and decided this was in the same ballpark. He also reffed the outcome instead of the actions but then again he's incapable so what else do you expect.
Morgan is not the answer and even behind a performing pack he can't grab a hold of the game.
Positives:
Jack Murphy has a habit of outshining his competition it would seem so the EI tour wasn't just a fluke. Great player, very assured and will bypass the competition fairly quickly. I'd like to see a lot more of him this season, if Leinster can do it with Prendergast then why can't we elevate a player?
The Pack fronted up very well and Wilson clearly wasn't just a flash in the pan last season. We should see a lot more of him as well.
Stu and Jude make a beast of a centre pairing and wee Lowry makes for a beast of a player. How can he bounce of players like that and keep going?

I just hope the injuries aren't to bad, we could do without losing the likes of Ward and McCloskey.

[geoff999rugby]

Difficult to disagree with any of that post Pete - so I wont

My only caveat being that the scrum only did ok because Munster scrummaging is equally crap

[geoff999rugby]

The talk of Treadwell going reminds me of the following article

SportsNews247
Ulster Rugby, one of the prominent teams in Irish rugby, has recently faced a significant shakeup with the departure of four key players.
John Cooney, Stuart McCloskey, Jordi Murphy, and Kieran Treadwell have bid farewell to the club, leaving a void that might prove challenging to fill.

It was dated May 22 - the year before Murphy retired
Don't believe everything you read

[carpet baboon]

In some better news Carson, McIlroy, Flannery, Izzy, Henderson, Doak and Timoney are all back in training.
So at least we have a few more options in the backs

[geoff999rugby]

We will probably even have Doak and Carson on the bench - luxury

McIlroy and Lowry - one will be 15 and one on the wing.

Really hoping for a 4 to 8 of
Henderson, Sheridan, Izzy, McCann, Timoney

Who starts at 10 - 4 fly halves available !

[geoff999rugby]

McCloskey not going to make it so I assume the backs will be

Cooney, (which fly half?), Kok, Postlewaite, Carson, Lowry, McIlroy
Bench: Doak (which fly half?), Telfer

He might start with Telfer on the wing and leave Lowry at 15, given McIlroy is only just back from injury
At fly half I suspect he will leave unchanged from last week.
I hope he is brave and starts with his son and puts Morgan on the bench

[Maine man]

Stockdale signs new 2 year deal

[carpet baboon]

Ulster team is out

15. Michael Lowry (113)
14. Werner Kok (10)
13. Ben Carson (7)
12. Jude Postlethwaite (20)
11. Rory Telfer (2)
10. Jack Murphy (1)
9. Nathan Doak (76)

1. Eric O’Sullivan (124)
2. Rob Herring (244)
3. Scott Wilson (22)
4. Alan O’Connor (Capt) (203)
5. Cormac Izuchukwu (34)
6. Matty Rea (104)
7. Nick Timoney (154)
8. James McNabney (9)



Replacements:

16. John Andrew (127)
17. Andrew Warwick (204)
18. Corrie Barrett (5)
19. Kieran Treadwell (167)
20. David McCann (55)
21. John Cooney (147)
22. Aidan Morgan (10)
23. Wilhelm De Klerk (0)

Connacht have gone full strength so we will have to be on top of our game.

Great to see Murphy get the start, would have rather had Cooney and McCann starting but I kind of understand he may want a bit more control coming on for the end of the game.

Is Sheridan injured?

[carpet baboon]

That was the best 80 minute performance this season

[Maine man]

Didn't get to see the game. How did Murphy get on at 10?

[carpet baboon]

Didn't get to see the game. How did Murphy get on at 10?

Thought he played very well. For me he's our starting 10 for the rest of the season.
Doak had his best game since his breakthrough year.
McNabney was a beast at 8,l.
To be honest it was a very good performance from a young team.
We lost Al and Herring before kick off but the young lads stepped up.
Our defence was much improved with a lot more aggressive line speed.
We even won a couple of scrum penalties

[geoff999rugby]

Murphy did well and is our most talented fly half.

Doak was outstanding and totally out played Blade, who was very poor.
Seeing as Blade is Ireland's fourth choice scrum half, Casey is injured and, probably,
Murray as well could Doak be an Ireland bolter ?
Farrell will probably turn to youth and select McGrath  
He seems to like that route as both Ryan and Aki get a POM style one year pensioner CCs for next year.

I have a theory/hope that maybe, just maybe, Doak could start to shine with a quality fly half outside him.
He had to carry, to some extent, Burns and  Morgan because of their lack of depth/quality in their kicking out of hand.
Now he has some alongside him who can do the business in that regard as well.

McNabney continues to grow and is emerging as an out and out 8.
Him and Wilson can make serious metres in the loose.
Izzy had to fill in at Lock and did well; Sheridan continues to be underused with Treadwell preferred  

Timoney was very good - was he captain and man-of-the-match because his contract is yet to be agreed  

[carpet baboon]

A question about our defence.
It looked like we changed tactics with regard how we were defending on Saturday.
Has Bell suddenly found an ability to coach defence?

[Kingshu]

There have been games in last few years its looked good, but overall its not. Think its when close to on try line and can put XV players in its looked solid, but further upfield with less players in the line, die to 2/3 covering backfield, it hasn't been great

[clivemcl]

I did notice Dock pressing a lot. Like shooting up in defense. I don’t normally pay as close attention, so maybe he always does this, but for some reason it caught my eye more. Not sure if it was effective or not, just something I noticed and hadn’t previously.

[Don Alfonso]

I did notice Dock pressing a lot. Like shooting up in defense. I don’t normally pay as close attention, so maybe he always does this, but for some reason it caught my eye more. Not sure if it was effective or not, just something I noticed and hadn’t previously.

No, it's not something I've ever noticed before, particularly. I thought it was very effective. Maybe part of him having a great game was being given responsibility for a role like that?

[geoff999rugby]

I thought the defensive line speed of the entire team was much better and, very importantly, they kept their shape and
kept it going for 80 mins

Impressive

[geoff999rugby]

There was mention of Treadwell leaving in the summer.

Just realised he has a contract until 2026

[carpet baboon]

Timoney signs till 2027.
We are gonna have options at back row and all of them good

[geoff999rugby]

Timoney signs till 2027.
We are gonna have options at back row and all of them good

For me that was the big one.

Al other important, and/or young players were always going to sign.
Timoney was the one with a slight doubt.

I know Cooney may well leave but you cant begrudge him that.
I cant think of any key players left to sign.

[Pete330v2]

Great bit of business and shows how much playing for Ulster means to him.
Has anyone else heard that we could have Mark Sexton joining the coaching team ?

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