Glasgow & Edinburgh Discussion Thread 31: The Roadmap for Success Vs The Perpetual Roadworks of Incompetence

[NeilyBroon]

First topic message reminder :

As requested, another thread connected by the M8. Two teams about as comparable as Adam Peaty and Eric the Eel.

Will Glasgow build on their title win next season?

Will Edinburgh even make the top half of the table?

Speculation and more on another volume of the patter papers.

[bsando]

Scott also has a career lined up after rugby so yeah I agree he must be comfortable to speak up and ruffle some feathers. It’s hard to see Everitt remaining with Edinburgh in the long term unless a steady flow of wins come along.

[RDW]

Some injury reinforcements coming back for Edinburgh, particularly Harry Patterson fit again. I feel Edinburgh's back 3 needs a bit more competition and freshening up instead of playing the same 3 every game.

Boffelli has also gone from unknown return date to end of Feb, which is promising!

[BigGee]

Hopefully HP can stay fit this time it seems to have been a struggle for the lad.

[RDW]

I mention the BBC Scottish rugby podcast a lot but they have a really nice half hour one recently released with chunky Weir and the Glasgow team manger reflecting on the URC win. Good to hear some alternative viewpoints of that 3 week run in, and a bit of feel good nostalgia.

A nice change of pace from grumpy Tom moaning about Edinburgh!

[Tramptastic]

Some injury reinforcements coming back for Edinburgh, particularly Harry Patterson fit again. I feel Edinburgh's back 3 needs a bit more competition and freshening up instead of playing the same 3 every game.

Boffelli has also gone from unknown return date to end of Feb, which is promising!

Good to hear about Boffelli - i bumped into him on the hills behind flotterstone in November, asked him how he was getting on etc. He did not sound hopeful in the slightest so its good to hear he might be returning in feb!

[jimbopip]

Guys...I feel jinxed. You may remember the tragedy of Caz The Quiet Bokkie and his non visit to Murrayfield...well Carling's Understudy has just called to say " family issues" mean he can't make to the Stoop next week.
One ticket, alongside Bigson and myself, now going begging.
I think I'm jinxed.

[RDW]

Finally watched the whole game back from last week. It certainly was one of the best defensive performance from Edinburgh in years, but feck me out attack was just dreadful. Yes the Glasgow defence is excellent but we're utterly clueless off first phase, and when 'one out passes' doesn't work (shock horror) we then just hoof it. I don't know what that new attack coach is actually doing.

Hopefully when those players go into the Scotland camp they don't drag down the attacking standards!

[EWT Spoons]

Finally watched the whole game back from last week. It certainly was one of the best defensive performance from Edinburgh in years, but feck me out attack was just dreadful. Yes the Glasgow defence is excellent but we're utterly clueless off first phase, and when 'one out passes' doesn't work (shock horror) we then just hoof it. I don't know what that new attack coach is actually doing.

Hopefully when those players go into the Scotland camp they don't drag down the attacking standards!

Aye it's grim isn't it.

Excuses can be made that it's a new attack coach and maybe he hasn't had enough time to implement his ideas. Or maybe Everitt signing his mate from MLR wasn't a great move and he's not up to the task.

This Edinburgh iteration has a lot of similarities to the Solly days. Coached by a soft spoken SA, terrible results, incredibly blunt attack. At least Solly cracked the 'get it to Visser' method, Everitt hasn't even worked out that we have 2 very good wingers and passing to them might just work.

[NeilyBroon]

Finally watched the whole game back from last week. It certainly was one of the best defensive performance from Edinburgh in years, but feck me out attack was just dreadful. Yes the Glasgow defence is excellent but we're utterly clueless off first phase, and when 'one out passes' doesn't work (shock horror) we then just hoof it. I don't know what that new attack coach is actually doing.

Hopefully when those players go into the Scotland camp they don't drag down the attacking standards!

Aye it's grim isn't it.

Excuses can be made that it's a new attack coach and maybe he hasn't had enough time to implement his ideas.  Or maybe Everitt signing his mate from MLR wasn't a great move and he's not up to the task.

This Edinburgh iteration has a lot of similarities to the Solly days.  Coached by a soft spoken SA, terrible results, incredibly blunt attack.  At least Solly cracked the 'get it to Visser' method, Everitt hasn't even worked out that we have 2 very good wingers and passing to them might just work.

I'd completely forgotten about the solly days but you've absolutely hit the nail on the head! Hard to see what decent coach would want to take Edinburgh... I reckon it must have a terrible reputation behind closed doors too.

[Mcsweens]

My entirely unscientific assessment - borne of many years of observation, mind - of Edinburgh is this: their fortunes are inversely linked to the amount of time they spend using the National team's kit at Murrayfield.

If you rock up at Murrayfield and use the Scotland home changing room / weights room / recovery rooms as an 18 year old Edinburgh apprentice, you are not going to have sufficient dog or hunger. If you come back from a Scotland tour as a seasoned professional, the same applies. And yes, I know that there are many examples that disprove this, but on aggregate this is the reason they are less successful than their counterparts further West.

Their fortunes and performances have improved slightly since the Hive was built.
Now, lets finish the job and get their training base moved out to Sighthill or Wester Hailes. It's the only solution.

[Hazel Sapling]

Agree with McSweens. Playing at Murrayfield needs to be seen as something to strive for and not a given. Difficulty is that the SRU have no money and are then paying for two gyms/recovery areas rather than one so I can't see it in the near term.

In other news, Sam Johnson's tore his ACL for Brive a few weeks back. Not sure if noted here. He is only 31 but not sure what this means for his future

[RDW]

My entirely unscientific assessment  - borne of many years of observation, mind - of Edinburgh is this: their fortunes are inversely linked to the amount of time they spend using the National team's kit at Murrayfield.

If you rock up at Murrayfield and use the Scotland home changing room / weights room / recovery rooms as an 18 year old Edinburgh apprentice, you are not going to have sufficient dog or hunger. If you come back from a Scotland tour as a seasoned professional, the same applies. And yes, I know that there are many examples that disprove this, but on aggregate this is the reason they are less successful than their counterparts further West.

Their fortunes and performances have improved slightly since the Hive was built.
Now, lets finish the job and get their training base moved out to Sighthill or Wester Hailes. It's the only solution.  

A good discussion point. It's fair to say culture takes on many forms however. Glasgow have done well with having a bit of a chip on the shoulder and focussing on 'working class' values of hard work and integration into their community, but there's many other forms team culture can take. Look at Leinster - full of privileged private school kids but they have one of the best high performs cultures in sport.

I'm sure Edinburgh's proximity to HQ hasn't helped, but it's in no way an acceptable excuse on why they have never really been able to form a consistent culture, other than one of under performing!

[bsando]

Agree with McSweens. Playing at Murrayfield needs to be seen as something to strive for and not a given. Difficulty is that the SRU have no money and are then paying for two gyms/recovery areas rather than one so I can't see it in the near term.

In other news, Sam Johnson's tore his ACL for Brive a few weeks back. Not sure if noted here. He is only 31 but not sure what this means for his future

Ouch! Poor bloke. Hopefully he can recover and get a few more seasons in France. I haven’t seen him play for Brive since he left Glasgow, hope he’s doing well.

[demosthenes]

Glasgow teams out :

Glasgow Warriors team to face Racing 92 at Scotstoun Stadium, Friday 10 January, kick-off 8pm. A limited number of tickets are still available at glasgowwarriors.org.

1 Rory Sutherland (8)
2 Johnny Matthews (83)
3 Zander Fagerson (158)
4 Gregor Brown (28)
5 Scott Cummings (135)
6 Matt Fagerson (121)
7 Rory Darge (56)
8 Jack Mann (6)

9 George Horne (128)
10 Tom Jordan (60)
11 Kyle Steyn (C) (81)
12 Sione Tuipulotu (64)
13 Huw Jones (77)
14 Sebastian Cancelliere (46)
15 Josh McKay (57)

Replacements

16 Gregor Hiddleston (19)
17 Jamie Bhatti (113)
18 Sam Talakai (9)
19 Alex Samuel (25)
20 Ally Miller (32)
21 Euan Ferrie (24)
22 Jamie Dobie (78)
23 Duncan Weir (156)

Unavailable for selection: Adam Hastings (face), Stafford McDowall (suspension), JP du Preez (knee), Jare Oguntibeju (knee), Sione Vailanu (knee), Henco Venter (head), Murphy Walker (neck), Max Williamson (hand).

[EWT Spoons]

Hogg given community payback order, as an alternative to custody.

Feel he got away fairly lightly.

Hogg being a wrong'un.  Also wouldn't normally criticise someone's appearance but because he's an absolute weapon, his hair transplant looks like it was a waste of money....shame.

[BigGee]

Hoggy was never going to jail for this and that is probably fair enough.

I agree community service does not seem much of a punishment, especially for someone now living in the south if France but the main punishment for him is going to be in his loss if reputation and the financial damage it will cause him in years to come when he stops playing rugby. No sponsor will touch him with a barge pole now.

His ex wife will also take him to the cleaners in the divorce settlement and it is hard to argue about that.

[EWT Spoons]

Reports are that his community 'service' will not involve any actual unpaid work.   If true, then this 'punishment' will really show him.  How will he recover from *checks notes* no punishment whatsoever.

I get he'll have reputational damage etc, but he's facing nothing from the courts

[Hazel Sapling]

Racing side to place Glasgow

Lino - Feleti - Sordoni (Ben Arous - Escobar - Mazibuko)
Palu - Junior Kpoku (Taofifuena)
Zinzen - Baudon - Diallo (Dayimani)

Lebail - Gibert (Labarbe - Lancaster)
Chavancy - Tristan (Idrissi)
Arundell - Spring - Habosi

I mean...several of those names are not even in the wiki. Idrissi is a debut, Labarbe has less than 200 minutes of top flight rugby and Mazibuko could not break into the Stormers side. Very much a third team

[bsando]

I’d be pretty surprised if warriors lose this one. The feeling around champions cup this year is that the real contest will be after the pool stages.

[Mcsweens]

Reports are that his community 'service' will not involve any actual unpaid work.   If true, then this 'punishment' will really show him.  How will he recover from *checks notes* no punishment whatsoever.

I get he'll have reputational damage etc, but he's facing nothing from the courts

It's wild how much this process has aged him, going by the photos in this article.
He looks like a rheumy eyed old soak already.

[bsando]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/jan/09/stuart-hogg-was-a-world-class-scottish-rugby-player-who-now-has-to-relocate-his-moral-compass

Kitson with a balanced view on the Hogg saga. Ultimately Hogg was his own worst enemy and players who probably looked up to him have clearly lost respect. One player I’d be interested to know how they feel about Hogg is fellow Hawick man Graham. I remember how the two were compared when Darcy first arrived on the scene. It’s hard to recall another interview with the two of them since then. Does he have any respect for Hogg now?

By admitting to his guilt early he’s probably avoided a more serious sentence. How he behaves moving forward will cement his legacy. No doubt he’s lost a lot of respect among fans but at least he’s been to rehab and made an effort to get his life back on track. One can only hope his ex wife is able to enjoy a brighter future away from the toxicity Hogg heaped upon her.

[RDW]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/jan/09/stuart-hogg-was-a-world-class-scottish-rugby-player-who-now-has-to-relocate-his-moral-compass

Kitson with a balanced view on the Hogg saga. Ultimately Hogg was his own worst enemy and players who probably looked up to him have clearly lost respect. One player I’d be interested to know how they feel about Hogg is fellow Hawick man Graham. I remember how the two were compared when Darcy first arrived on the scene. It’s hard to recall another interview with the two of them since then. Does he have any respect for Hogg now?

By admitting to his guilt early he’s probably avoided a more serious sentence. How he behaves moving forward will cement his legacy. No doubt he’s lost a lot of respect among fans but at least he’s been to rehab and made an effort to get his life back on track. One can only hope his ex wife is able to enjoy a brighter future away from the toxicity Hogg heaped upon her.

I'm not going to hold my breath that Hogg has finally become a reformed man! For the sake of his current and future children, you'd hope the penny eventually drops. Can't say I've seen much of a grovelling apology to his wife either.

At the very least I hope it's the end of his 'woe is me' social media posts.

[sensisball]

Hogg receiving almost no punishment doesn't seem like much of a deterrent. How does he even do community service from the South of France?

This game is a bit of a lame duck. Nolan Le Garrec is apparently off on holiday for 2 weeks, Chat has been let go for apparently turning up drunk at training compounding the lamping of a teammate at a Christmas function and many of their other big name players are being rested ( Fickou, Woki) or not yet fit (Farrell).

Plus, they are starting Sordoni at tight head, so that's at least 5 scrum penalties for Glasgow. He looks in way worse shape than he looked whilst at Glasgow. Maybe he was eating all of Chat's lunch and that's what tipped the cat over the edge?
Seriously, I hope Chat gets himself sorted and finds another club this year, he is far too good a hooker to be retiring at 29.

[George Carlin]

Hogg receiving almost no punishment doesn't seem like much of a deterrent. How does he even do community service from the South of France?

This game is a bit of a lame duck. Nolan Le Garrec is apparently off on holiday for 2 weeks, Chat has been let go for apparently turning up drunk at training compounding the lamping of a teammate at a Christmas function and many of their other big name players are being rested ( Fickou, Woki) or not yet fit (Farrell).

Plus, they are starting Sordoni at tight head, so that's at least 5 scrum penalties for Glasgow. He looks in way worse shape than he looked whilst at Glasgow. Maybe he was eating all of Chat's lunch and that's what tipped the cat over the edge?
Seriously, I hope Chat gets himself sorted and finds another club this year, he is far too good a hooker to be retiring at 29.

Completely weird to see a Racing team which I hardly recognise. It does have the whiff of cannon fodder about it.

When the hell is everyone's favourite Aussie love monkey, Mr J Dempsey Esquire, coming back into the matchday reckoning?

[RDW]

Sordoni throwing in the cheap shots - it he lasts the game without a card I'd be surprised!

[RDW]

Glasgow backs running riot - 3 tries after 22 minutes

[bsando]

It’s hard not to like this Glasgow side. They’re so bloody entertaining.

[RDW]

4 tries secured by halftime in a blistering half of attacking rugby. Main downside is Jordan's goalkicking has been guff.

Tuipoloto looks to have injured himself potentially - get him off!

[BigGee]

We'll it is absolutely Baltic here at Scotstoun but the quality of the Glasgow rugby is keeping us warm

Good to get the 4th try out of the way early. Hopefully we play some smart rugby this half

[RDW]

Job done for glasgow without really getting out of 3rd gear. 2nd half was a bit sloppy but it's tough to keep the intensity up when you're comfortably winning and the other team aren't exactly bringing it.

[jimbopip]

Well, glass half full/ half empty?
If Quins lose without a bonus point then Glasgow have a home QF
If Quins win they are on 8 or 9 points and Glasgow can win the group, which should improve our seeding in the QF-Semi aspect of the draw.

So do we hope for a Toulon win? From a pragmatic point of view, YES. However, this would increase the chances of Glasgow resting payers next week and possibly losing. I've taken out a second mortgage to get the tickets so I want to see a full strength Warriors thrash the English pretenders. No ifs no buts; a big performance from the best 23 available.
However, if Quins pick up 10 points in the next two games and Toulon collect 6. Then we're third in the group and an away QF. So really a 4 point win for Toulon and fecc all for Quins would be ideal.

As for last night's performance but, Hornito took a knock to the head and the club are not saying whether he failed his HIA or if they kept him off as a precaution. Sione took a leg knock scoring his try and if we had Stafford on the bench then I'm certain Wee Shona would have stayed in the warm for the second 40.
Can't wait for next Saturday.

[RDW]

Glasgow put chunky Weir on for Steyn when they could have subbed Tuipoloto instead - hopefully that means he wasn't actually carrying a niggle.

[jimbopip]

Just decided to start a totally unfounded fact free rumour. Dave Nucifora is tasked with improving the Scotland rugby performance. The press are strongly suggesting that Fergus Burke will be in the 6 Nations squad. Nucifora, apparently, likes SQ players playing for Scottish teams (or Scottish clubs playing SQ players). Glasgow have a mini crisis at 10. Even if Haircut recovers is he the long term first choice fly half? Meatball is older than me (in rugby years). There is no-one else banging on the door.
So Burke to Scotstoun. you heard it here first.

[George Carlin]

Young Aldi Price deciding to play a big of rugby there.

Vannes (beautiful place incidentally, my wife grew up there) are bottom of the Top 14 so we shouldn't start high fiving ourselves to death quite yet, but an away win is an away win. Very worrying to see Duey pulling up with a hamstring problem when scoring. I guess we'll hear how bad it is shortly.

[bsando]

Considering how woeful Edinburgh were at the start of the season they're finding wins and clinging on in both leagues. Some big games to come for them but I do have a faint bit of hope we can go deep in the Challenge cup and make the QF's in the URC. Well done to Price for improving his form.

[NeilyBroon]

Considering how woeful Edinburgh were at the start of the season they're finding wins and clinging on in both leagues. Some big games to come for them but I do have a faint bit of hope we can go deep in the Challenge cup and make the QF's in the URC. Well done to Price for improving his form.

He seems to do this every year before Scotland squad announcement only to relapse after. Think he needs to be told to focus on his club game this 6Ns.

[RDW]

Young Aldi Price deciding to play a big of rugby there.

Vannes (beautiful place incidentally, my wife grew up there) are bottom of the Top 14 so we shouldn't start high fiving ourselves to death quite yet, but an away win is an away win. Very worrying to see Duey pulling up with a hamstring problem when scoring. I guess we'll hear how bad it is shortly.

OMG is that Edinburgh doing some attacking rugby?? Some lovely tries there. That last Vannes try has some terrible tackling though.

Also classic EPCR highlights - they end with the Vannes score making you think Edinburgh lost

[bsando]

Young Aldi Price deciding to play a big of rugby there.

Vannes (beautiful place incidentally, my wife grew up there) are bottom of the Top 14 so we shouldn't start high fiving ourselves to death quite yet, but an away win is an away win. Very worrying to see Duey pulling up with a hamstring problem when scoring. I guess we'll hear how bad it is shortly.

OMG is that Edinburgh doing some attacking rugby?? Some lovely tries there. That last Vannes try has some terrible tackling though.

Also classic EPCR highlights - they end with the Vannes score making you think Edinburgh lost

It was a bit odd, but i've been impressed with the speed of instant highlights this season. Only a few seasons ago I would be waiting until Monday for highlights of all the games.

Vannes have had some good games here and there from what I've seen but man for man you'd have expected a better result for Edinburgh. As we all know they've been pretty abject all season so a win for me is all that was hoped for. Graham's defence looked a bit poor, it is probably his biggest weakness. His attacking game more than makes up for that though.

[Anglobraveheart]

Young Aldi Price deciding to play a big of rugby there.

Vannes (beautiful place incidentally, my wife grew up there) are bottom of the Top 14 so we shouldn't start high fiving ourselves to death quite yet, but an away win is an away win. Very worrying to see Duey pulling up with a hamstring problem when scoring. I guess we'll hear how bad it is shortly.

OMG is that Edinburgh doing some attacking rugby?? Some lovely tries there. That last Vannes try has some terrible tackling though.

Also classic EPCR highlights - they end with the Vannes score making you think Edinburgh lost

It was a bit odd, but i've been impressed with the speed of instant highlights this season. Only a few seasons ago I would be waiting until Monday for highlights of all the games.

Vannes have had some good games here and there from what I've seen but man for man you'd have expected a better result for Edinburgh. As we all know they've been pretty abject all season so a win for me is all that was hoped for. Graham's defence looked a bit poor, it is probably his biggest weakness. His attacking game more than makes up for that though.

DG is definitely suspect on the defensive front, his tackling was poor just on the highlights.
He also had that howler against Fiji when the hooker dummied him prior to almost walking over the tryline

Hopefully Steve Tandy will sort him out in Scotland camp

[bsando]

Yes you’d hope so! I’m not sure how his D compares with Kolbe who is the player I increasingly compare him to. Steyn might get ahead of him given his form last season.

Will Glasgow send a B side to London? Smart as that probably is I’d love to see a full strength Glasgow take on a full strength quins.

[BigGee]

I can't see us sending a B team

A win could have us topping the group (depending on the Sale v Toulon result) which could give us 2 home ties in the knockouts at least, so it would be crazy not to take that chance.

The Scotland test players will get a week off the following week before the start of the 6N, so I think he will wring one more game out of them before he loses them for a bit.

[jimbopip]

I agree with Gee, Glasgow want to win the group, (a) to pay Quins back for last time out when we should have won but let it slip, and (b) to force the English clubs and media to treat us with the respect that the URC champions deserve. It'll be a fully loaded side and the Scotland players can have a rest next week.

There are whispers that Jack Dempsey will be in the 23.
Gee, as a medical type...how long does a dislocated finger rule a player out for? Wee Shona seemed to suffer one in the second half last week.

[BigGee]

It was pop it back in, tape it up and play on in my day.

Usually unless it is broken as well, not to much of a problem. I can't imagine Sione not wanting to play in this one.

If he is out, then Lord Stafford is back to step up

[jimbopip]

Wee Shona won't let anyone stop him on Saturday. Except the General.
Stafford would be fine. But perhaps lacking match sharpness.
Are you at the game Gee.

[BigGee]

Wee Shona won't let anyone stop him on Saturday.  Except the General.
Stafford would be fine. But perhaps lacking match sharpness.
Are you at the game Gee.

Yes I am, going with a bunch of old rugby mates, so won't realistically be able to socialize. Will keep an eye out for you though.

Where are you sitting?

Hopefully it will be warmer than Scotstoun on Friday night!

[jimbopip]

We have three in London Pride section BC and 1 in the north stand ( opposite end of the ground) section GC.

[BigGee]

We are in the DHL stand, block AG

Will keep an eye out for you

[jimbopip]

You might see me, Gee, but there'll be no Seaman on the pitch.
So Seba- McKay-Mullet back three.

[BigGee]

You might see me, Gee, but there'll be no Seaman on the pitch.
So Seba- McKay-Mullet back three.

I can think of worse back threes that have started for Glasgow!

[jimbopip]

The General is certain to go for a 6/2 bench so I wonder if he might start the House Elf on the wing and have Meatball and Lord Stafford Of MacDowall on the bench.

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