Lions Tour of Australia 2025

#deep breath#



Saturday 28 June: Lions vs Western Force, Optus Stadium, Perth

Wednesday 2 July: Lions vs Queensland Reds, Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane

Saturday 5 July: Lions vs New South Wales Waratahs, Allianz Stadium, Sydney

Wednesday 9 July: Lions vs ACT Brumbies, GIO Stadium, Canberra

Saturday 12 July: Lions vs Invitational AU & NZ XV, Adelaide Oval, Adelaide

Saturday 19 July: Lions v Wallabies (First Test), Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane

Tuesday 22 July: Lions v Melbourne Rebels, Marvel Stadium, Melbourne

Saturday 26 July: Lions v Wallabies (Second Test), Melbourne Cricket Ground, Melbourne

Saturday 2 August: Lions v Wallabies (Third Test), Accor Stadium, Sydney

4 years comes round quickly!

I've managed to get myself tickets to the Waratahs games, Second Test in Melbourne and Third Test in Sydney - very much looking forward to my first Lions Tour in person. One of the benefits of now living in Australia!

Ah, finally a thread where people can thrash to death the twitching corpse of the observation that the new shirt looks like curtains from a 70s care home.

Never seen a Lions year have such little Lions chat!

This will surely start some arguments

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cgqydjydzd8o

Just putting this out there:

I would have absolutely no qualms whatsoever with no Welshman being picked either in the first XV or in the whole squad. I'd still get behind it 100% and enjoy the tour as much as normal. My enjoyment of it would not be diminished. It's the concept of the lions that I love, rather than just cheerleading for my own boys as some seem to do each tournament.

Go Lions!

RDW wrote:Never seen a Lions year have such little Lions chat!

This will surely start some arguments

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cgqydjydzd8o

Marcus Smith my arse!  Finn is a better all round player.  good defender, great control and at least as a good an attacking game tho Smith has yet to play in a team built for him and his style

Edit: I assume he gets the nod on the stats for all the points off the tee.  England usually go for the 3, Scotland to the corner.

Tuipoloto must go as well surely.  Kinghorn at FB with Jordan as supersub

I would be suprised to see as many Scots in the first team as that but you never know

Just to stir a bit more:

Who can you really say is a better player in their position than the first choice Scotland backs?  
White. Russell, Duhan. Huipoloto, Graham, King Blairhorn, Jordan as supersub

The Irish lads seem to be on the slide a bit.  Not been in the best of form tho some great players who have had great careers, ( lets see next weekend tho)  English?  Need to show something in the 6N, Welsh - a year or two too soon.

Meh, whatever. Too early just like the bleedin Xmas songs on radio.

Wait and see how 6N goes and who's fit afterwards.

TJ wrote:Just to stir a bit more:

Who can you really say is a better player in their position than the first choice Scotland backs?  
White. Russell, Duhan. Huipoloto, Graham, King Blairhorn, Jordan as supersub

The Irish lads seem to be on the slide a bit.  Not been in the best of form tho some great players who have had great careers,  ( lets see next weekend tho)  English?  Need to show something in the 6N, Welsh - a year or two too soon.

I can really say it, can write it too:

Mitchell, Smith (F), Sleightholme, Dingwall, Freeman, Hendy, Furbank and Pollock as he is unbelievable for a 20 year old and can fit in anywhere in the 15.

Come on you Saints

Can’t wait for the “We beat team X when you couldn’t, therefore your player x shouldn’t be in the Lions squad over our player x” conversations!

I wish they had factored in a test match against a Pacific Islands Team from which they would keep the receipts. It would be like a 4th test and could replace one of those other meaningless fixtures and could raise much needed cash for the Island coffers.

If he stays fit. Keenan at fb for me.

Assuming Ireland beat Australia reasonably comfortably (I think they will) if the squad was to be picked now you could probably make a reasonable arguement for a squad makeup of:

50% Ireland
25% Scotland
20% England
5% Wales

But the squad isn't being picked now! The serious stuff of the 6N still to come.

I still think England will come good and could have a strong 6N. Ireland will be vulnerable without their head coach, and their form as looked a bit off this series, so they may not be as strong as we expect. Scotland, well, are Scotland! Plenty hope but need to show we can do it back to back several times over. As for Wales, perhaps a year or two too soon but you never know.

Tactics also play into selection heavily it's key to remember. Especially on tours with short time to get systems in place. Players who look great in the game plans their nations use may not be as valued in a different system. And vice versa.

I could definitely see Faz Snr going down the lock at blindside route for instance. Physicality and the extra lineout option are very useful if you have to simplify game plans due to bringing a side together quickly. Bierne and Chessum the obvious options there.

I could see Farrell considering a 6-2 split as well. There's a lot of powerful players in the tight five to utilise. Again, that'll affect the balance of the squad picked.

If you're looking to carry a lot off 9 then a player such as Cunningham-South becomes valuable for his power. Locks such as McCarthy and Martin would see their stock rise too. Whereas, if you're looking to play a wider game, then multiple opensides and mobile 8s become very useful.

Bundee Aki, just dropped by Faz, could become integral in a dialled back game plan as he can get over the gain line - see Ben Te'o starting Lions tests. I'd certainly want Bundee in my touring squad at the very least just for that option of a go to carrier in the midfield.

Faz leans towards wings with strong all round games, especially in kicking. Ireland have built the joint best exit game in rugby by using their wings, especially Lowe, to get out their own 22. Something like that, along with his recent form, doesn't seem ideal for Duhey. Darcy, though he scores tries for fun in routs against struggling opposition , also has some holes in his game without the ball. If they really want that solid all round winger that Faz Snr tends to want, then someone such as Kyle Steyn becomes a potentially odd bolter though? His game is absolutely rock solid.

All those sorts of things play into selection hugely. Which is part of why Lions selection often gets so divisive. Fans see 'their' players shine in the systems of the team they support, don't consider the different needs of a Lions tour, then burst a blood vessel when a winger who makes their parts feel funny but runs around like a blindfolded Jack Sparrow in defence gets overlooked.

Some positions are inevitably just weaker as well. JGP is the standout 9 by a mile. After him, I'd probably pick Tomos Williams next, even though he's in a very weak Wales team, I just think he's a really good 9. Either White or Mitchell could feasibly get the 3rd spot. After JGP, it'll be very tight basically. Hooker is even worse. Sheehan is brilliant, Kelleher likely second choice. After that... Jamie George could feasibly tour despite his England form slipping. Maybe Dewi Lake? There's a falloff there. You inevitably get very good players missing out in some positions and fortunate players touring in others.

A good exercise for getting near the balance of 37/38 man squad is to name a 23 and a spare XV with how you think Faz will want to play in mind. That will get you pretty darn near how many players get selected across positions. Selection itself will change enormously of course.

Bearing in mind I think we'll see a lock at blindside and a lot of forwards carrying off JGP, hence physical forwards favoured. I'd guess at something like below currently:

1.Schoeman 2.Sheehan 3.Furlong 4.Itoje 5.McCarthy 6.Bierne 7.JvdF 8.Doris
9.JGP 10.Finn 11.Lowe 12.Tuipulotu 13.Ringrose 14.Hansen 15.Keenan

16.Kelleher 17.Porter 18.Zander 19.Martin 20.Morgan 21.Williams 22.Smith 23.Henshaw

1.Genge 2.George 3.Bealham 4.Chessum 5.Ryan 6.CCS 7.Darge 8.Earl
9.White 10.Farrell 11.Graham 12.Aki 13.Shug 14.IFW 15.Kinghorn

Obviously there are plenty of tight calls in amongst it. Especially in positions where there as notable falloff from standout 1st and 2nd choices.

king_carlos wrote:Tactics also play into selection heavily it's key to remember. Especially on tours with short time to get systems in place. Players who look great in the game plans their nations use may not be as valued in a different system. And vice versa.

I could definitely see Faz Snr going down the lock at blindside route for instance. Physicality and the extra lineout option are very useful if you have to simplify game plans due to bringing a side together quickly. Bierne and Chessum the obvious options there.

I could see Farrell considering a 6-2 split as well. There's a lot of powerful players in the tight five to utilise. Again, that'll affect the balance of the squad picked.

If you're looking to carry a lot off 9 then a player such as Cunningham-South becomes valuable for his power. Locks such as McCarthy and Martin would see their stock rise too. Whereas, if you're looking to play a wider game, then multiple opensides and mobile 8s become very useful.

Bundee Aki, just dropped by Faz, could become integral in a dialled back game plan as he can get over the gain line - see Ben Te'o starting Lions tests. I'd certainly want Bundee in my touring squad at the very least just for that option of a go to carrier in the midfield.

Faz leans towards wings with strong all round games, especially in kicking. Ireland have built the joint best exit game in rugby by using their wings, especially Lowe, to get out their own 22. Something like that, along with his recent form, doesn't seem ideal for Duhey. Darcy, though he scores tries for fun in routs against struggling opposition , also has some holes in his game without the ball. If they really want that solid all round winger that Faz Snr tends to want, then someone such as Kyle Steyn becomes a potentially odd bolter though? His game is absolutely rock solid.

All those sorts of things play into selection hugely. Which is part of why Lions selection often gets so divisive. Fans see 'their' players shine in the systems of the team they support, don't consider the different needs of a Lions tour, then burst a blood vessel when a winger who makes their parts feel funny but runs around like a blindfolded Jack Sparrow in defence gets overlooked.

Some positions are inevitably just weaker as well. JGP is the standout 9 by a mile. After him, I'd probably pick Tomos Williams next, even though he's in a very weak Wales team, I just think he's a really good 9. Either White or Mitchell could feasibly get the 3rd spot. After JGP, it'll be very tight basically. Hooker is even worse. Sheehan is brilliant, Kelleher likely second choice. After that... Jamie George could feasibly tour despite his England form slipping. Maybe Dewi Lake? There's a falloff there. You inevitably get very good players missing out in some positions and fortunate players touring in others.

A good exercise for getting near the balance of 37/38 man squad is to name a 23 and a spare XV with how you think Faz will want to play in mind. That will get you pretty darn near how many players get selected across positions. Selection itself will change enormously of course.

Bearing in mind I think we'll see a lock at blindside and a lot of forwards carrying off JGP, hence physical forwards favoured. I'd guess at something like below currently:

1.Schoeman 2.Sheehan 3.Furlong 4.Itoje 5.McCarthy 6.Bierne 7.JvdF 8.Doris
9.JGP 10.Finn 11.Lowe 12.Tuipulotu 13.Ringrose 14.Hansen 15.Keenan

16.Kelleher 17.Porter 18.Zander 19.Martin 20.Morgan 21.Williams 22.Smith 23.Henshaw

1.Genge 2.George 3.Bealham 4.Chessum 5.Ryan 6.CCS 7.Darge 8.Earl
9.White 10.Farrell 11.Graham 12.Aki 13.Shug 14.IFW 15.Kinghorn

Obviously there are plenty of tight calls in amongst it. Especially in positions where there as notable falloff from standout 1st and 2nd choices.

That kind of detailed, sensible analysis using facts and rugby knowledge has no place on a Lions thread!

TJ wrote:Just to stir a bit more:

Who can you really say is a better player in their position than the first choice Scotland backs?  
White. Russell, Duhan. Huipoloto, Graham, King Blairhorn, Jordan as supersub

The Irish lads seem to be on the slide a bit.  Not been in the best of form tho some great players who have had great careers,  ( lets see next weekend tho)  English?  Need to show something in the 6N, Welsh - a year or two too soon.

Hopefully all those Scots make it, the less Irish players in the squad the better.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Can’t wait for the “We beat team X when you couldn’t, therefore your player x shouldn’t be in the Lions squad over our player x” conversations!

FFS, way to deconstruct the entire thread and render my entire argument as pointless.

mountain man wrote:Meh, whatever. Too early just like the bleedin Xmas songs on radio.

Wait and see how 6N goes and who's fit afterwards.

Agree about the holiday songs. Over here this week is the American Thanksgiving holiday Thursday and that other famous American holiday is on Friday - Black Friday. Thanksgiving is the unofficial start of the Christmas holidays so Christmas sales are being advertised everywhere, in the mail, email, on the radio and tv. And it's already started. By the time we get to the New Year I am ready for all the holiday schmaltz to end.

Agree about the Lions, but seems pretty obvious most of the squad will come from Scotland and Ireland. Perhaps more English and some Welsh come good in the 6 Nations, but have no problem if the spine of the squad comes from Scotland and Ireland. The point is to win....

RDW wrote:That kind of detailed, sensible analysis using facts and rugby knowledge has no place on a Lions thread!

My sincerest apologies, RDW. Contrarian, divisive and partisan opinions. That's what bringing together the 4 home nations under one badge is truly about.

TJ, if every rugby player in Scotland is better than every corresponding rugby player in England, then why do Scotland's good Six Nations end in 3rd or 4th place whilst England's bad Six Nations end in 3rd or 4th place...?

King Carlos - only the backs and who has the Calcutta cup?

I was thinking a wee bit more about what I said ( a bit tongue in cheek) about the Scotland backs.
Of course JGP is the best 9 in the NH. How could I forget him.

Faz leans towards wings with strong all round games, especially in kicking. Ireland have built the joint best exit game in rugby by using their wings, especially Lowe, to get out their own 22. Something like that, along with his recent form, doesn't seem ideal for Duhey. Darcy, though he scores tries for fun in routs against struggling opposition Whistle

Interesting thought. Duhan and Darcy are the best strike runners ball in hand IMO and Darcy is decent in defense despite his size but Catching and kicking? good point


I guess its a bit "pick a style and select players to suit" ?

Whatever - its nice to see a number of Scots in contention and even some nailed on starters

I think other nations' players are just competing for the vacant spots shown here (the Irish guys stated are nailed on as starters for me):

01.
02.Sheehan
03.Furlong
04.Beirne
05.
06.
07. Van Der Flier
08. Doris
09. Gibson Park
10.
11.Lowe
12.
13.Ringrose
14.
15.Keenan

Porter also has a very strong argument to the #1. shirt right now.

George Carlin wrote:I think other nations' players are just competing for the vacant spots shown here (the Irish guys stated are nailed on as starters for me):

01.
02.Sheehan
03.Furlong
04.Beirne
05.
06.
07. Van Der Flier
08. Doris
09. Gibson Park
10.
11.Lowe
12.
13.Ringrose
14.
15.Keenan

Porter also has a very strong argument to the #1. shirt right now.

I think you're likely right, and I probably would just put Porter in at #1 as well.

I've always maintained that the Lions just needs to pick a squad (easier said than done) and then see who performs on tour, in training and in the warm up matches.  If the Irish lads mentioned above stand out then they should definitely all start.  But I don't think anyone should be nailed on just yet.  It will be a different environment, different coaching team which might mean different plays, rooming with different people, being away from family for a long time...... it's going to potentially throw some of the form people off a bit, and might make some fringe players excel.  Happens every tour and think we just need to let the management team make shock calls if they want to without fans micro-analysing every decision.  After all, we'll always be in a position of relative ignorance being as we're thousands of miles away and not privy to any inside info.  Nice to voice opinions, of course.  But wouldn't it be nice if this tour the opinions didn't tip over the edge into something else like we have tended to see in previous tours?

 #hopeful

Not a single player is nailed on yet, far too early. Seeing as Farrell will be Lions coach and he coaches Ireland then he'll have several of their players in mind but I doubt very much he'll be thinking anyone is certain aside from fact that players from other nations definitely in contention then factor in all club matches between then and now and 6N.

George Carlin wrote:I think other nations' players are just competing for the vacant spots shown here (the Irish guys stated are nailed on as starters for me):

01.
02.Sheehan
03.Furlong
04.Beirne
05.
06.
07. Van Der Flier
08. Doris
09. Gibson Park
10.
11.Lowe
12.
13.Ringrose
14.
15.Keenan

Porter also has a very strong argument to the #1. shirt right now.

Barring injury or a dramatic loss of form, I think it’s highly likely that all of that list will tour. But Lions selection is a curious thing, because it often [1] comes down to which playing combinations gel fastest on tour. When you have to meld a team out of four disparate groups in a short period of time, it’s often unexpected selections that emerge as the ones that are working.

[1] by which I mean “almost always, except when Warren Gatland is determined to select a half-fit Welshman or Clive Woodward forgets that the last two years have happened.”

king_carlos wrote:  
Bearing in mind I think we'll see a lock at blindside and a lot of forwards carrying off JGP, hence physical forwards favoured. I'd guess at something like below currently:

1.Schoeman 2.Sheehan 3.Furlong 4.Itoje 5.McCarthy 6.Bierne 7.JvdF 8.Doris
9.JGP 10.Finn 11.Lowe 12.Tuipulotu 13.Ringrose 14.Hansen 15.Keenan

16.Kelleher 17.Porter 18.Zander 19.Martin 20.Morgan 21.Williams 22.Smith 23.Henshaw

Looking at the Irish there a few observations:

- I wouldn't even has Hansen in the Irish side he has been poor this year - Nash and Stockdale have been better
- Bierne is playing his better rugby at lock, not been Lions level at 6
- Agree JvdF, Doris, JGP, Ringrose and Hansen should be shoo ins, probably Lowe as well
- McCarthy needs to cut down the penalty count but certainly a serious prospect
- Sheehan needs to show form after a serious injury
- Furlong is in decline and picking up a worrying number of injuries, still the best but no shoo in

As others have said though, like Xmas, way too f**king early.
Lets wait till after the 6N

I think the lock at 6 thing is here to stay - though a player like Chandler Cunningham-South could make a late run for that shirt.

I also suspect that by the end of the 6N we will have a different view of who the best wingers are as the coaches adapt to the changes in the kick chase rules

I wonder if Courtney Lawes will be considered.

Difficult for Lawes playing second tier, but if he is fit and playing well, we all know what he can do.

One person I have not seen mentioned at all is Mitchell, people have named a lot of 9s, but he has never been amongst them. I would put him in the top 2 or 3 on on his day as good as JGP

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Difficult for Lawes playing second tier, but if he is fit and playing well, we all know what he can do.

One person I have not seen mentioned at all is Mitchell, people have named a lot of 9s, but he has never been amongst them. I would put him in the top 2 or 3 on on his day as good as JGP

Agree about Mitchell. Perhaps being out recovering from his neck injury makes him 'out of sight, out of mind'? Doesn't really matter if he returns to form for Saints in January and for England in the Six Nations.

That said, his first few games back will inevitably show some rust.

I think you could argue Mitchell's stock has risen not being available for the Autumn Internationals, at least amongst England fans.

With the limited preparation time, the obvious selection trick is to pick proven partnerships - so assuming everyone is fit the Irish front row as a unit, Itoje and Martin in the second row, Doris, JvdF and Beirne in the backrow. You could argue for Rory Darge or Jac Morgan, but an all Irish backrow have familiarity and understanding of each other.

Of course there are individuals who are so far ahead of the rest that they pick themselves, so I am expecting a JGP/Russell half back pairing.

How early is too early for a predict the starting Lions team for the 1st test?

Also depends on the game plan, Russell is brilliant at playing his way, but I don't think he would be that good playing the rugby Ireland play.

George Carlin wrote:I think other nations' players are just competing for the vacant spots shown here (the Irish guys stated are nailed on as starters for me):

01.
02.Sheehan
03.Furlong
04.Beirne
05.
06.
07. Van Der Flier
08. Doris
09. Gibson Park
10.
11.Lowe
12.
13.Ringrose
14.
15.Keenan

Porter also has a very strong argument to the #1. shirt right now.

Is Ringrose really nailed on at 13? Class player, but him and Henshaw seem to be sharing the 13 shirt, who is also a class player. Throw in Jones, Lawrence etc and there's no shortage of class at 13.

Centre I can see him going with a partnership - either the Irish one of the Scottish one!

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Also depends on the game plan, Russell is brilliant at playing his way, but I don't think he would be that good playing the rugby Ireland play.

Agreed. For that you would need some sort of kicker who likes tackling without arms and who plays in France. I mean, for instance.

And if they were close to the head coach, so much the better.