England's winter of cricket 2024/25

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Mousley is really fun to watch. I've no idea if there's longevity in what he's doing. I'm really happy that England are giving it a go though.

Yorkers from seamers have become less regular at the death as the margin for error is so small. It always was a small margin, but, if you hit it, then it couldn't get hit. Shots like the scoop changed that though. There's plenty of batters who can now turn a very good yorker into a boundary behind square on either side. Yorkers are still a weapon, but it's in an arsenal with other options. As opposed to guys like Flintoff who had a brilliant ODI record and rep as a death bowler largely by trying to bowl 5 yorkers an over.

Mousley bowling 75 mph yorkers off 3 paces in the Hundred was both effective and just really intriguing. Logically, 'spinners' are usually more accurate than seamers. The tiny run up that he flies through gives less time for a batter to shift their feet, look to scoop, etc. Plus, if they shape to scoop very early, then Mousley can take all the pace off, bowl a regular off-break and there's suddenly not enough there for the batter to work with. It's really interesting.

Part of me suspects that he might be found out. Trying to bowl yorkers off 3 paces like that, all from the shoulder, he does seem liable to bowl full tosses more often than others. Might batters adjust to the tiny runup and basically play him like a 75mph medium pacer bowling off a regular, longer runup? If Paul Collingwood was doing the same thing at the death off his runup then he'd be hit into space! Mousley really isn't putting much action on the ball either. It does seem to just be rapid arm balls. They've been very effective at times though. He might prove to be a one trick pony that gets worked out.

As said though, I'm just glad they're giving him the chance to find out either way. I really wish they'd done that with Benny Howell when he was at his peak. There was a period when Howell's stats in the middle overs were absurd. He was a similarly odd bowler. His cricinfo page says "right-arm medium". In reality, he was a 'quick spinner'. He had about a dozen slower balls that did different things. Many were genuinely deviating off the pitch too. Batters just couldn't hit him for a long period. He was very tough to get away square due to the pace. He bowled wicket to wicket with smart fields, got a ton of players caught at long-on and long-off with miss hits down the ground from the battery of slower balls. Some would dip. Some would turn. Batters couldn't line him up. England just weren't interested at that point in some weird medium pacer though, sadly. I think that Howell bowling in tandem with Dilly in the middle overs of T20i's could've been a brilliant weapon.

I'm glad they're having a look at something different this time. He shouldn't have played the ODIs but that's the schedule and having a T20 squad for 50 over games, so obviously not Mousley's fault!

Be mildly confused that England had lost this series 3-0 from the tone

Soul Requiem wrote:

wisden wrote:

Shoaib Bashir - For the first time under the Stokes/McCullum era it felt like there was a worry of bowling him in this series, rarely got the ball and the fact that he didn't bowl in an entire day's play and Stokes bowled 23 overs, told me Stokes was worried about him...I like Bashir and i think he will be the real deal but he is so raw he needs a season of county cricket as the first choice spinner and to bowl a lot of overs

Bashir seems to be in a slightly awkward position at the moment. He clearly is not good enough for test cricket at the moment but his county opportunities are limited by Somerset having Jack Leach. They'd play him at Taunton but wouldn't in away games, not sure how much you learn as a spinner on some of the pitches they serve up either.

Herein lies the issue. England have taken the view that if they want a Test spinner then they'll need to develop one 'on the job'. Which I broadly agree with. County cricket doesn't want turning wickets. On the very rare occasions that teams do, they usually get fined or docked points.

Leach might be the most rounded at present but he's still a bowler who struggles in the first innings and bowling to LHBs. He's got strengths but such significant limitations that I'm happy England have gone in another direction.

Dawson is the saviour of man according to some. In reality, he's a SLA bowler who doesn't put many revs on the ball. He was tried in Tests and offered nothing. Against batters who play spin as poorly as many in the CC it works well. He mixes his pace well between loopy balls that offer batters no pace to work with and quicker arm balls. It works against poorer players of spin, I think he'd be bowling throwdowns to Jaiswal or Head. I've wanted Dawson used more in the white ball setup over the years as well - I'm a fan despite my views on him as a potential Test player!

Given the CC is so badly setup for producing spinners and quicker bowlers, I think picking players with certain attributes rather raw stats makes a lot of sense. It's certainly worked with Carse. Atkinson to an extent as well given he is a change bowler at Surrey but has thrived with the new ball for England.

The difference between Test and the CC is gigantic not just in quality but also how it's played. The counties mostly like low bouncing seamers tracks that reward medium pacers bowling wicket to wicket.

Last I looked, spin contributed an average of just above 20% of the overs in county cricket. Which is the lowest of any first-class system. If we want talented spinners such as Bashir (which I think he is) to get overs, then it needs to be over the winter in a much more robust Lions program with full first-class games being played.

I'd move to Rehan in the summer. Especially if he can apply himself better with the bat. It's not like Rehan is much more developed as a bowler though. He isn't used much by Leicestershire. Their default is 4 seamers, followed by Rehan, Trevaskis or Kimber bowling spin when the seam battery are tired. Like almost all the counties!

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=5;orderby=runs;template=results;type=batting

Root has the most runs of any test bat v New Zealand. Helped in part by having the most innings of anyone v NZ, but still a very fine achievement. 1,925 runs, average of 53, six tons. England, who never delay meeting NZ by long, will play the Kiwis again in June 2026, so a chance you would think for Root to push on to 2,000!

Root also has the most test runs v India, though he doesn't have the most innings played against them...James Anderson does!

One of the headlines in CI reads quoting Stokes
"Very Very Happy with how 2024 has gone"

I think he has right to be happy but it's glass half full in a fair assessment.
Winning in NZ is credible, Losing in Pak was unexpected.
beating WI at home doesn't count and losing a test vs SL makes it at best par
It's at best a par season.....not exceptional

On the subjective positives there are quite a few such as Pope finding form, 3 pacers finding their feet in Atkinson, Carse and Potts to some extent, Smith an exciting prospect & Bethell an unexpected bonus who can bat and also roll his arm over, and justification of Bashir as a first spinner

The only subjective downside and a big one is the inevitability of him being able to bowl & hence the balance it distorts.
On second thought I would say glass 2/3rds full

England Lions squad for tour of Australia: Sonny Baker (Hampshire), Shoaib Bashir (Somerset), Pat Brown (Derbyshire), James Coles (Sussex), Sam Cook (Essex), Alex Davies (Warwickshire), Rocky Flintoff (Lancashire), Tom Hartley (Lancashire), Tom Lawes (Surrey), Freddie McCann (Nottinghamshire). Ben McKinney (Durham), James Rew (Somerset), Hamza Shaikh (Warwickshire), Mitch Stanley (Lancashire), Josh Tongue (Nottinghamshire), John Turner (Hampshire)

England Lions squad for their tour of Australia in January - Josh Hull will travel but not play due to fitness.

Lots and lots of bowling! Would have liked to see Rehan on the plane too tbh, don't really see the point of Hartley going with no Asian tours upcoming...

Bashir in the Lions squad, that's interesting. Is this a sign of a demotion? Leach and Rehan aren't going.

Graeme Swann is joining the coaching for this tour, so might be a masterclass of coaching spin bowling, hence the number of spinners.

No Farhan or Akhter, I note, who have been on previous Lions tours, but Rocky is included. Rew, McKinney and Cook might be getting closer to full England call ups? Tongue as well continuing his recovery.

There'll be two four day games v a Cricket Australia XI, followed by a four day 'test' v Australia A.

Glad to see both Bashir and Hartley really. Neither getting enough chance to bowl in CC recently so an opportunity to get some overs in against decent opposition makes sense to me. Not sure you can do all the "development" at Test level , this is a reasonable alternative , no ?

Duty281 wrote:Bashir in the Lions squad, that's interesting. Is this a sign of a demotion? Leach and Rehan aren't going.

Graeme Swann is joining the coaching for this tour, so might be a masterclass of coaching spin bowling, hence the number of spinners.

No Farhan or Akhter, I note, who have been on previous Lions tours, but Rocky is included. Rew, McKinney and Cook might be getting closer to full England call ups? Tongue as well continuing his recovery.

There'll be two four day games v a Cricket Australia XI, followed by a four day 'test' v Australia A.

Also I see Will MacPherson has noted some who would've been included have franchise commitments (Hurst is in the BBL for example) or will be in white ball squads etc...(I suspect Rehan might be in the T20/ODI squads for India? And maybe Champions Trophy?)

A fine balancing act!

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote: England Lions squad for tour of Australia: Sonny Baker (Hampshire), Shoaib Bashir (Somerset), Pat Brown (Derbyshire), James Coles (Sussex), Sam Cook (Essex), Alex Davies (Warwickshire), Rocky Flintoff (Lancashire), Tom Hartley (Lancashire), Tom Lawes (Surrey), Freddie McCann (Nottinghamshire). Ben McKinney (Durham), James Rew (Somerset), Hamza Shaikh (Warwickshire), Mitch Stanley (Lancashire), Josh Tongue (Nottinghamshire), John Turner (Hampshire)

England Lions squad for their tour of Australia in January - Josh Hull will travel but not play due to fitness.

Lots and lots of bowling! Would have liked to see Rehan on the plane too tbh, don't really see the point of Hartley going with no Asian tours upcoming...

Olly - good effort finishing off the squad and your post before celebrating Sonny Baker's call up!

alfie wrote:Glad to see both Bashir and Hartley really.  Neither getting enough chance to bowl in CC recently so an opportunity to get some overs in against decent opposition makes sense to me. Not sure you can do all the "development" at Test level , this is a reasonable alternative , no ?

Absolutely. A Lions program more akin to what India A had under Dravid's coaching is something I've wanted for a while. The CC has obvious limitations in developing Test players due to a mixture of conditions and quality being spread over so many teams. We should be getting the youngest talents training in overseas conditions as early as possible - a la the Lions training camp style tour that just finished. Then get a mixture of those youngsters and the standout CC performers who might have skills to suit Test cricket on tours playing proper F-C cricket for the Lions through the winter.

This is exactly the sort of tour I want guys like Bashir to be playing on. Ideally Rehan would be there too. I suspect, as Olly says, that he might be in the white ball plans as a Dilly understudy alongside Chohan.

I have to wonder whether someone such as Amar Virdi's career may have been different if they'd done this sooner like India did. He looked so promising in that 2018 title winning season. He's completely stalled though as the CC mostly doesn't need (or even want...?) spinners. If they'd been able to get that sort of talent proper F-C cricket in overseas conditions every winter, then may he have developed differently?

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:England Lions squad for tour of Australia: Sonny Baker (Hampshire), Shoaib Bashir (Somerset), Pat Brown (Derbyshire), James Coles (Sussex), Sam Cook (Essex), Alex Davies (Warwickshire), Rocky Flintoff (Lancashire), Tom Hartley (Lancashire), Tom Lawes (Surrey), Freddie McCann (Nottinghamshire). Ben McKinney (Durham), James Rew (Somerset), Hamza Shaikh (Warwickshire), Mitch Stanley (Lancashire), Josh Tongue (Nottinghamshire), John Turner (Hampshire)

England Lions squad for their tour of Australia in January - Josh Hull will travel but not play due to fitness.

Lots and lots of bowling! Would have liked to see Rehan on the plane too tbh, don't really see the point of Hartley going with no Asian tours upcoming...

Batting - Rew (wk), Davies (wk), McKinney, McCann, Flintoff, Shaikh
Spin bowling all-rounders - Coles
Seamers - Tongue, Turner, Cook, Baker, Stanley, Lawes
Spinners - Bashir, Hartley

There's a talented looking XI to make from that. Albeit shorter on batting. Which isn't helped by the bowlers I most want to see being no 10s or 11s!

1.Davies 2.McKinney 3.McCann 4.Rew (wk) 5.Flintoff/Shaikh 6.Coles 7.Lawes 8.Tongue 9.Cook 10.Bashir 11.Turner

There's plenty of players there to be excited about.

I'd say that Cook being there is a sign of the Kookaburra trial in the CC being used as I'd hope. Cook did very well with it but in English conditions. The Kookaburra, since having the seam reinforced, is actually really good to bowl with early on. It's no longer an embarrassment of a cricket ball that offers no balance between bat and ball. Having done so well with it at home, Cook now gets the chance to try it in Oz.

Overall, this tour and the sort of squad picked is a big shift towards the sort of Lions program I want.

Ideally, I'd have Keaton Jennings and Josh Bohannon in particular there to bolster the batting. Jennings struggled in Test cricket but his CC record for Lancs is outstanding. Is that a sign that he's a far better player now or a sign of the difference between the CC and Tests? This is the sort of tour to find out. Perhaps both are waiting on potential T20 offers, may be added at a later date.

England have already named their squad for the three ODIs v India and the Champions Trophy.

Bats - Buttler, Brook, Duckett, Smith, Root, Salt
Spin all rounders - Bethell, Livingstone
Pace all rounders - J Overton
Spin - Rashid
Pace - Archer, Atkinson, Carse, Mahmood, Wood

A number of interesting calls. Root returns to the ODI fold. There is no Stokes, ostensibly because of a hamstring injury, but I'm not sure he justified inclusion anyway. J Overton is in, after missing out on the T20 World Cup with injury. And there's a return for Mahmood. No concerns about Atkinson and Carse's workload. Wood and Archer are deemed fit to play. No Topley, which surprises me, as he offers that left arm angle and has been a good tournament player when not injured. No Curran also, less surprising.

I'm surprised Crawley hasn't found a way in under McCullum's new stewardship of the white ball set up. And I'm surprised England are so low on spinners for a tournament in Pakistan and one other subcontinental country (if England play India in the SF/F). They've gone very pace heavy. I'm not sure of the value of picking six pace bowlers in a squad of 15 for such a short tournament!

Possible starting XI - Duckett, Salt, Root, Brook, Buttler, LL, Bethell, J Overton, Rashid and two of the five pace options? Maybe three if one of LL/Bethell is omitted? And I obviously expect some rotation amongst those pace bowlers. Smith can be the batting reserve. Lot of keeper options!

It's a small tournament, just five games if England go all the way. But I think it's very important for England to get to the SFs as a minimum after a tough couple of years in the white ball formats. I think England's opponents in the group phase are Afghanistan, Australia and South Africa, but nothing's been confirmed by the ICC yet.

And there's also the squad for five T20s v India - Jos Buttler (Captain), Rehan Ahmed, Jofra Archer, Gus Atkinson, Jacob Bethell, Harry Brook, Brydon Carse, Ben Duckett, Jamie Overton, Jamie Smith, Liam Livingstone, Adil Rashid, Saqib Mahmood, Phil Salt, Mark Wood. I think it's the same squad except Rehan over Root.

Added ODI - Brook Carse Duckett Smith Wood Root - Dropped Chohan Curran Jacks Topley Turner Rehan Cox
Added T20 - Ahmed Atkinson Brook Carse Duckett Wood - Dropped Chohan Jacks Topley Turner Mousley Curran

Duty281 wrote:England have already named their squad for the three ODIs v India and the Champions Trophy.

Bats - Buttler, Brook, Duckett, Smith, Root, Salt
Spin all rounders - Bethell, Livingstone
Pace all rounders - J Overton
Spin - Rashid
Pace - Archer, Atkinson, Carse, Mahmood, Wood

A number of interesting calls. Root returns to the ODI fold. There is no Stokes, ostensibly because of a hamstring injury, but I'm not sure he justified inclusion anyway. J Overton is in, after missing out on the T20 World Cup with injury. And there's a return for Mahmood. No concerns about Atkinson and Carse's workload. Wood and Archer are deemed fit to play. No Topley, which surprises me, as he offers that left arm angle and has been a good tournament player when not injured. No Curran also, less surprising.

I'm surprised Crawley hasn't found a way in under McCullum's new stewardship of the white ball set up. And I'm surprised England are so low on spinners for a tournament in Pakistan and one other subcontinental country (if England play India in the SF/F). They've gone very pace heavy. I'm not sure of the value of picking six pace bowlers in a squad of 15 for such a short tournament!

Possible starting XI - Duckett, Salt, Root, Brook, Buttler, LL, Bethell, J Overton, Rashid and two of the five pace options? Maybe three if one of LL/Bethell is omitted? And I obviously expect some rotation amongst those pace bowlers. Smith can be the batting reserve. Lot of keeper options!

It's a small tournament, just five games if England go all the way. But I think it's very important for England to get to the SFs as a minimum after a tough couple of years in the white ball formats. I think England's opponents in the group phase are Afghanistan, Australia and South Africa, but nothing's been confirmed by the ICC yet.

And there's also the squad for five T20s v India - Jos Buttler (Captain), Rehan Ahmed, Jofra Archer, Gus Atkinson, Jacob Bethell, Harry Brook, Brydon Carse, Ben Duckett, Jamie Overton, Jamie Smith, Liam Livingstone, Adil Rashid, Saqib Mahmood, Phil Salt, Mark Wood. I think it's the same squad except Rehan over Root.

The ODI series vs Eng  I didn't even know about until now
And CT are both at infinity right now.
The entire cricketing focus of entire Indian cricket Eco System is on last 2 tests and desires inked with those  of qualification for WTC final

Great to see Root back in the ODI setup. Especially given the host(s) of the CT. He'll suit the conditions. I know his ODI numbers since 2019 have been much poorer but he's barely played either. There was so little focus on the format after winning the CWC. He's clearly as good as ever as a batter.

I'd probably look at Smith opening ahead of Salt, Buttler up to 5 and Bethell or Livi at 6 for the bowling option. I'm a touch sceptical of Salt against anything but seam. I expect that Salt will open with Smith as the reserve batter though. Smith hasn't done anything in his brief ODIs, so that isn't ridiculous. I'd just back the better talent though.

Presumably an XI similar to below is likely:

1.Salt 2.Duckett 3.Root 4.Brook 5.Buttler (wk) (c) 6.Livi 7.Bethell 8.Carse 9.Atkinson 10.Archer 11.Dilly

Wood backing up the middle overs quicks. Mahmood backing up the PP quicks. It's short on death bowling other that Jof as is often the case with England for a while.

JOverton presumably in the running for that number 7 spot as a death hitter who can bowl in the middle overs. Maybe conditions dependent there. No 6 and 7 likely to be 2 from 3 for Livi, Bethell and Overton I'd guess? I'd be very surprised if they went batting heavy by playing Smith at 5 and Buttler at 6. I don't think Livi, Bethell or Overton are nearly strong enough to rely on for a full set often. Even with Root bowling a bit.

I think it's a good looking squad overall. The lack of second spinner sums up where Rehan and Chohan are in their development really. A Dilly replacement has been a problem for a long while now.

Stokes off for surgery on his hamstring and out for 3 months. Really think you have to proceed on the basis you can't rely on him as a frontline bowling option anymore

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Some worrying things in this test to end a good trip - Stokes injury obviously a concern...serious questions have to be asked of his role in the XI at this point, if he is simply going to break down once every other test match.
Not helped by Bashir clearly not having their trust or readiness - maybe things will be different in a couple of years, but I have reservations about him going to Aus next year...offers nothing in the field/with the bat to offset it either.

Almost think going into next winter, if we are in the lucky place where most, if not all our seamers are fit...we'd be better off going with an XI along these lines, and using Bethell/Root for 10-15 spin overs in the day...

Opener (could Pope or Bethell open?)
Duckett
Bethell/Stokes
Root
Brook
Smith
Stokes/Bethell
Woakes
Atkinson
Carse
Wood

With likes of Stone, Potts, Archer, et al in reserve. Just go in with a battery of seam options, bat deep and use spin as needed. It's not as if Aussie conditions ever really rag anyways.

Crawley is gonna need a good start to the summer...because you can't continue to carry him and then leave out a player like Bethell/Pope/Smith or whoever misses out, who objectively looks better and averages more. Could Bethell or Pope even open potentially?
Stokes play as a specialist bat/captain who might be able to bowl the odd over...maybe he plays 3 and Bethell at 7.

Lots of XI questions to be answered going forward.

Looking at the current series between India and Australia, I keep coming back to the XI above as England’s best plan of attack for next winter. Spin barely even getting bowled let alone making much impact, lots of help for the seamers and it allows Bethell into the XI easier.

Olly

That's unless they try to get wickets that turn a bit more for obvious reasons. Lyon is an incomparable spinner to what England have and several of their batters are very poor against spin. Obviously, they wont turn it into Mumbai. They could certainly offer Lyon more than they have this summer though. They have in the past. Even England, where it rarely turns, produced more conducive pitches when Swann was at his best.

Realistically I think Australia have steered towards seaming pitches for several years now in part to extend the shelf life of their big three quicks. They redeveloped the Kookaburra too. Before they had flat decks and a terrible cricket ball. Now, they often have juicy pitches and a ball that actually does a fair bit.

Steering slightly back towards Lyon could certainly make sense given the opposition they'll be playing.

If we see pitches such as these, then I'd certainly consider the 4 seamer battery though.

king_carlos wrote:Olly

That's unless they try to get wickets that turn a bit more for obvious reasons. Lyon is an incomparable spinner to what England have and several of their batters are very poor against spin. Obviously, they wont turn it into Mumbai. They could certainly offer Lyon more than they have this summer though. They have in the past. Even England, where it rarely turns, produced more conducive pitches when Swann was at his best.

Realistically I think Australia have steered towards seaming pitches for several years now in part to extend the shelf life of their big three quicks. They redeveloped the Kookaburra too. Before they had flat decks and a terrible cricket ball. Now, they often have juicy pitches and a ball that actually does a fair bit.

Steering slightly back towards Lyon could certainly make sense given the opposition they'll be playing.

If we see pitches such as these, then I'd certainly consider the 4 seamer battery though.

I'm not sure why they'd tailor things to what would be a 38 year old Lyon, over Cummins/Starc/Hazlewood/Boland tbh - Lyon sneaky one on the decline I think.

But we'll see how things turn out - maybe by then Bashir or Rehan have "taken a leap" and are true test class spin bowlers worth a spot in the XI

I'm not sure Lyon's showing signs of a decline.

Since the start of the Ashes in 2021/22, Lyon's played 34 tests and has taken 140 wickets @ 25.48, with his economy and SR better than ever before. Amusingly enough he's averaging under 24 outside of Asia in that time frame, but nearly 30 in the subcontinent!

He did just endure a tough series v India, but I don't think any of the pitches offered any help towards spin, as a means of negating Jadeja/Ashwin.

Spoiler:

Pressure is beginning to mount, 2003-style, on England to boycott their game v Afghanistan in the upcoming Champions Trophy. 88 MPs and 81 members of the House of Lords have signed this letter asking the ECB to consider a boycott.

Telegraph: England are refusing to boycott next month’s Champions Trophy match against Afghanistan over safety fears for their players in Pakistan and the threat of reprisals from the Taliban and their supporters.

This isn't looking good.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/tom-hartley-ruled-out-of-lions-tour-of-australia-with-broken-hand-1468453

A blow for Tom Hartley who is ruled out of the Lions tour with a broken hand.

Duty281 wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/tom-hartley-ruled-out-of-lions-tour-of-australia-with-broken-hand-1468453

A blow for Tom Hartley who is ruled out of the Lions tour with a broken hand.

Blow for Lancs but

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/james-anderson-in-talks-to-play-for-lancashire-in-2025-season-1468483

Jimmy. Dukes ball. April. Division Two bats. Chaos.

"And now from the Sir James Anderson end...ermm, Sir James Anderson"

Purely from a selfish perspective, I am hoping England will be able to find a way-window to retain his services and keep him as a guru for the likes of Atkinson, Carse, Woakes, Potts, Wood and the elusive-fragile Joffra. My fingers are crossed that he'll work with Atkinson and find a way to squeeze a crucial 12 months out of Mark.

Anderson confirmed to be playing for Lancashire this season as an all format player. He will apparently put this ahead of coaching England, although England will have Anderson as part of the backroom staff at the Champions Trophy.

Also Vince will likely miss the County Championship this season after choosing the Pakistani Super League, which takes place between April and May, so Vince will probably only have a white ball deal with Hampshire.

Today was the first day of the first four dayer for the Lions on tour in Australia.

The Lions were bowled out for 223. In reply, a Cricket Australia XI were 176/9 at stumps. Never mind four days, it could be over tomorrow!

A number of Lions players got starts with the bat, but only Alex Davies made a half century, with 54 off 60. He hit four sixes, of eight overall, so a Bazball approach to proceedings it seems.

The stand out name for the Lions on day one was Sam Cook. He collected figures of 7-2-15-4 as he took down four of the top five. His jaw dropping FC numbers - 308 wickets @ 19.57 - have been so far ignored in terms of international recognition, but performances like this in Australia with a Kookaburra ball might give his claim real weight.

It was a tough day for Bashir, who went for 37 runs in five overs, just the one wicket.

Duty281 wrote:Today was the first day of the first four dayer for the Lions on tour in Australia.

The Lions were bowled out for 223. In reply, a Cricket Australia XI were 176/9 at stumps. Never mind four days, it could be over tomorrow!

A number of Lions players got starts with the bat, but only Alex Davies made a half century, with 54 off 60. He hit four sixes, of eight overall, so a Bazball approach to proceedings it seems.

The stand out name for the Lions on day one was Sam Cook. He collected figures of 7-2-15-4 as he took down four of the top five. His jaw dropping FC numbers - 308 wickets @ 19.57 - have been so far ignored in terms of international recognition, but performances like this in Australia with a Kookaburra ball might give his claim real weight.

It was a tough day for Bashir, who went for 37 runs in five overs, just the one wicket.

It's an interesting game to follow.....CA-XI needs 265ish to win and have already knocked off 100 odd for the loss of one...and look on course
Looks like the typical Aussie pitches we have seen in tests vs India and also in Aus-A vs India-A games....green and seaming and start settling down on D2 and D3, only to go uneven on D4 and 5
(though Sydney was just short of a minefield all the time)
Typical English seamers will do well and if these are the type of pitches Aus will roll out in Ashes, Eng should consider bringing Anderson back.

Alex Davies & Ben Mickenny for Eng Lions
and Herane's 100 for CA should be considered highly

Rocky Flintoff bats at 7 and doesn't bowl? Why?

Yeah, 261 to win which would be the highest score of the match, but CA are making good progress. Cook was again economical, though this time no incision.

McKinney earlier struck 94 with the bat, but had absolutely zero support, with only Cook also going past 20.

Not sure about Rocky's position. I think he was at 4/5 for Lancashire when he started his FC career late last season.

Rocky's a brilliant talent but I think the prevailing feeling of him batting at 4 in the CC for Lancs was that it summed up the mire of their management last season. Batting that high so regularly at 16-years-old is taking the mick really. From what I've heard, he can bowl a bit faster than medium pace but doesn't bowl that much at the moment. He seems focused on batting.

I think Cook being there is significant. He played T20 leagues last winter and could likely have done so again. England know he can bowl with the Kookaburra in England from early this season. They're now seeing if he can in Oz though. There is more of a place for slower but skilled seamers in Oz now that the Kookaburra has been redesigned and their pitches changed to prolong that great but aging seam attack. I think he's close to the Test plans. They clearly still see value in a skilled medium-fast options from their use of Woakes. They just want a shift to 1 slower seamer and at least 2 quicker ones. As opposed to where England had drifted to at the start of the 2023 Ashes with Jimmy, Broad, Robinson and Stokes all looking like they'd need to snort a line to have a chance of scratching 80mph after their first spell was done. As Woakes ages, I think Cook could be a really good option to complement the quicker seamers. Especially when Atkinson and Carse can bat.

Sonny Baker with good figures too. He's never played a F-C game, I believe this is 13-man squads with 11 batting and 11 fielding too, so it won't be a debut. He's meant to be sharp and highly rated but I've honestly not seen him bowl.

They've taken so little batting on this tour. The selection feels in between the development tour they had in SA and a proper England 2nd XI tour. I want them to do more of both. Ideally, Jennings and Bohannon would be there to bolster the batting. Jennings has been in the BBL and likely has a decent chance of picking up further T20 deals over the winter though. The reality of the schedule.

Aus A are cruising in their chase currently. 97-1 with the only wicket going to Bashir.

Ended up being a cruise for Cricket Australia as they chased down 261 with seven wickets to spare.

The Lions have two more games on the tour. The 22nd-25th against the same opponents, and then the unofficial test v Australia A on January 30th (which will have FC status).

Pennington has been called into the Lions squad for the last two games. He was in the full squad for the test series against the West Indies in 2024, but didn't feature, somewhat surprisingly.

Pennington interests me as he's tall enough to get bounce but seems to be able to bowl a fuller length than many tall bowlers. When some taller bowlers who aren't express bowl full it can get a bit 'floaty'. I'm thinking post injury Boyd Rankin or a poorly conditioned Ollie Robinson type deliveries. Where the release comes from the moon but it just seems to hang in the air whilst the batter waits for it with an age to pick it up. Pennington is a tall lad but seems strong enough to bowl full without that happening and looks like he gets good seam movement. I think there's plenty to work with there.

He's not top of my list that I like the look of in that category. To me, John Turner seems a similar style of bowler but significantly more skillful. Turner really reminds me of a young Josh Hazlewood. Which I mean as very high praise.

I'm glad Pennington is still in their thoughts after that injury though. He's got the wobble ball that you'd expect almost all English seamers to have by now but he's also got the height and pace that many English seamers don't. Another in the category of "having things to work with" when looking at seamers attributes rather than raw numbers.

Bcci has arranged three 4 day tests with Eng Lions for India-A a month or so before the start of first official test match on 20th June
Half the Indian main squad mostly all batters are likely to turn up for India A

KP_fan wrote:Bcci has arranged three 4 day tests with Eng Lions for India-A a month or so before the start of first official test match on 20th June
Half the Indian main squad mostly all batters are likely to turn up for India A

Thanks, KP-f. Had missed that development which should only be good for the full Test series. The home side (whoever it is) stuffing undercooked opponents does no one favours.

With a pretty packed domestic season already announced, it won't be a piece of cake coming up with three venues for up to 12 days' cricket but I guess the ECB appreciate what they've agreed.

guildfordbat wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Bcci has arranged three 4 day tests with Eng Lions for India-A a month or so before the start of first official test match on 20th June
Half the Indian main squad mostly all batters are likely to turn up for India A

Thanks, KP-f. Had missed that development which should only be good for the full Test series. The home side (whoever it is) stuffing undercooked opponents does no one favours.

With a pretty packed domestic season already announced, it won't be a piece of cake coming up with three venues for up to 12 days' cricket but I guess the ECB appreciate what they've agreed.

Agreed. A beefed up Lions program with proper F-C games somewhere between Div 1 CC and Test standard is what I keep asking for. This is looking like that.

Some will castigate it as letting the Indian players get used to conditions. That's what we wish that we'd see more of with all tours though. When the Windies came here so underprepared last summer, I really wished the ECB had forked out to given them 3 proper F-C games in preparation.

The IPL ends in late May and the Test series starts on the 20th June. So that's the obvious 3ish week window this will try to be squeezed into. I fully expect that India will get some fringe players some time in the middle. I really hope England do too with guys who will be in the IPL though. Their counties schedules will mean they can get 2 games if lucky before the tour. This could be an ideal way to get Bethell time in the middle. Or, get Jof with a red ball in his hands. Get someone like Rehan actually bowling more overs than he will with Leicestershire by preparing a turning deck.

The only reason this would be a warmup for India's fringe Test players but not England's is if they manage it abysmally! They've got the Windies ODI's and T20is in the same likely window. That can be very easily managed though. Use the likes of Jof and Bethell in certain games to ensure them at least 1 of the 4 day Lions games.

I don't think these Ind A games will be practise only for fringe players.
I think the entire top 7 will be roated with the fringe to give them a game or two each.

Aus A had rolled out green seaming pitches for India A just before the tests and very similar to what they built for tests.
Pity India did not use those Aus A games well.

This time stung by defeats and backside on fire, there is seemingly more serious intent from Indians
I hope Eng too roll out seaming pitches and put their full strength Lion side.