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Hansen referee criticism and the referee's shock retirement

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Post by Kingshu Thu Jan 09 2025, 13:57

Earlier today Hansen has been given a three week ban for his criticism of the Referee after the Leinster game.

Mack Hansen was suspended for six weeks with three suspend for comments he made following Connacht's defeat to Leinster in the URC in December.

Additionally, Connacht have received a suspended €10,000 fine related to the player's sanction.

He must also make an apology to referee Chris Busby and undertake "an appropriate course related to match officiating


Just now referee of the game Busby, has announced his shock retirement from referring Pro Rugby.

Busby's decision is multifaceted and driven by personal reasons in the most part, although the Mack Hansen incident is believed to have been the tipping point in Busby making the decision.

The levels of toxic online abuse referees and their families are subjected to is also said to have impacted Busby's decision.Busby's decision comes at a time when the refereeing community feels under-supported in the face of a lack of respect from players, managers and supporters.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu Jan 09 2025, 14:22

Yeah the level grief match officials get online is ridiculous.

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Post by Kingshu Thu Jan 09 2025, 14:43

Wonder if Busby waited for the investigation to conclude to see what sort of punishment was given out, to decide if he was going to packnit in or not?

Think that he felt 3 weeks was very light, and was taking a stand for referees that the lack of respect from players, fans and managers, needed a stronger sanction, and more action from the URC and Unions, and more support of the refs was required or they simply will find other less abusive careers.

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Post by Poorfour Thu Jan 09 2025, 16:00

Three weeks is light compared to the bans that Neil Back and Dylan Hartley copped (albeit in Back's case for shoving Steve Lander rather than what he said), but in line with what Jonny Sexton received.

Is there a bit of a pattern here? Regardless, I would like to see a much tougher line on abuse of refs by players. When I did my reffing course, it was in the company of some soccer refs, who were astonished at the level of authority and respect commanded by rugby refs, and at the fact that we did it without being paid. Rugby would lose something important if that were to change.
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Post by geoff999rugby Thu Jan 09 2025, 16:17

I know I'm Irish but I really cant stand Hansen - he comes across as a bit of a pratt

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Post by doctor_grey Thu Jan 09 2025, 16:43

I would expect some consistency with the Hartley and Sexton suspensions.  Once players start going after the referees it only accelerates.  

That said, unless there is more reported than what I just read, it is not a so called 'X Rated' rant, but still over the line by an apparently very frustrated player.  And in the one article I just read there is no mention if Connacht had broached the concerns Hansen raised with the governing bodies, which if this was such an emotional issue should have preceded any of this.  In theory.

Really sad, and a real shame, if this caused the referee to resign. If so, there is clear frustration going around which needs to be dealt with asap.

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Post by MrsP Fri Jan 10 2025, 15:53

I haven’t posted on here in ages but I can’t remain silent on this.

Rugby needs to decide if it is going to allow itself to follow the path of soccer in its appalling attitude to match officials or if it is going to do the right thing and stand up for the men and women who give of their time and energy to facilitate the game.

Connacht and Ireland should both do what the disciplinary panel so miserably failed to do and let Hansen know that his stupidity will not be tolerated. And that should be in a way which is very visual and obvious to every player and supporter. Personally I never want to see Hansen in an Ireland shirt ever again.

The loss of this fine ref is terrible enough but the signal this sends to players present and future about what is acceptable is so sad. The dismay in the reffing community is completely understandable and Chris will not be the only ref we lose because of the negligence of this disciplinary panel. Hansen and the panel should hang their heads in shame.

Very sad day for rugby.

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Post by clivemcl Fri Jan 10 2025, 19:07

What happens when refs get calls wrong? Anything? If there is anything, it's behind closed doors. When players have bad performances they get dropped and coaching I assume targets the issues to rectify. They also get grief online right or wrongly.
Basically most places of employment would have a procedure if performance was bad, and a high expectation.
Unless I'm completely oblivious, world rugby seem to escape having to admit poor performances or apologies for incorrect calls. And seemingly they use the values of rugby as a shield to hide behind. (Until Hansen stupidly decides to go off the rails)

It's likely not the individual refs fault, nor the players, but ultimately interpretations of laws need to be better, or at the very least consistent.

For example: Tom O'Toole gets a 6 week ban and Latu gets 3 or something steam

Abuse is never to be tolerated. But if you reduce the frustration, you will reduce the abuse.

The guidance needs to be clearer. The training needs to be better. The citing need to be consistent. And they need to remove interpretation and vagueness. Penalise all dangerous or illegal actions regardless of the outcomes.

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Post by Poorfour Fri Jan 10 2025, 21:31

Ref feedback is behind closed doors, but a ref who consistently makes errors or manages the game badly will get given lower level games. (That said, there does seem to be a “get back on the horse” policy - refs who have had controversial games against certain teams do seem to be allocated to ref them again).

If you want to see some of it in action, the excellent Whistleblowers documentary on RugbyPassTV (for free), where there’s a sequence of the referee managers discussing which refs are meeting the grade to be considered for RWC knockout games.

There is also quite a lot about the abuse that refs (and their families) receive. Wayne Barnes’s wife received death threats.

Think on that for a moment. Providing a litany of refs’ errors is more likely to amplify the hate rather than damp it down; haters gonna hate, and it’s all just ammo for them.

Rugby is a very difficult game to ref. Even the best refs make errors, because they can’t always be in the right position or focused on the right thing. More often, the ref has seen something that wasn’t visible from the stands, or has made a decision that what you think is important is less important than some other infringement.

As a very low level ref, I understand this. As a fan, I can’t always stop myself from asking, politely but loudly, if sir could please pay attention to the offside lines. But disagreeing with a decision - however loudly - is one thing; abusing a human being is another.
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Post by TAFKA The Oracle Fri Jan 10 2025, 23:25

It’s so much harder for the top level refs too. Not only is it a hard sport to ref anyway but in the lower levels there are no tv cameras, or at least not multiple like the pro game. So they see one angle on the game and fans will see their angle, and we can agree to disagree at that level as we’re not privy to what the ref sees. But at the top level the refs see one angle but millions on tv see every angle available, which is really not fair on the ref. Yes, he gets to see replays of stuff he’s not sure about, stuff that he’s asked review, etc. But for the vast majority of the game it’s just his viewpoint. Yet TV fans see everything the tv companies want us to see, from multiple angles to super slow mo, reverse angles, etc. So we as fans get more than the ref, which is not good, and not healthy or conducive to fair treatment of the decision making. Hence the slide into football-esque abuse of refs from those who have been able to view things that the ref is not able to access in real time.

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Post by clivemcl Sat Jan 11 2025, 08:35

I would also add, tv/producers often seem to be intentionally showing an incident that was missed. This goes on screen in stadiums, gets the crowd all angry and loud.
I don’t like that external manipulation.
But the question must be asked, what’s the video ref doing if the tv producers are seeing an incident and he is not.
Surely the bigger matches with more angles should reduce wrong calls, if the video assistant would intervene, or the refs would simply reply on them more.

You’re right, the refs are in a tough position on the ground, so maybe in most cases it’s their assistants with the same view as us at home who are to blame for poor calls or lack of calls.

The Racing v Glasgow game last night saw a brutal clear out, which I’m fairly sure involved head contact, but the angles were poor and didn’t show it explicitly.

But the ref was standing there looking right at it, taking FAR too long to give the penalty for holding on. The Racing player launches himself, fully off his feet at the vulnerable Glasgow player around the upper chest/chin. With zero arm wrap - because… for whatever reason, we only care about that in tackles, but leading with shoulders is fine in rucks.

To me it’s exactly the kind of dangerous play that should be removed, and yet nothing was done, just the original penalty for player on the ground not releasing.

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Post by geoff999rugby Sat Jan 11 2025, 09:48

a posting on the Leinster supporters site I completely agree with

Hansen & Wilkins have damaged Irish rugby & Chris Busby has been hung out to dry.

That is the net result of allowing an overwrought player with a motor-mouth create headline for prats like RO'C in the Indo. Irish rugby journos, including GT, should hang their heads in shame. Busby has been sacrificed on the altar of headlines and nobody in the 'official' IRFU has stood up and supported him.

The hearing should have taken place at least 10 days earlier and the ban should have been 6 matches with a statement from Easterby & Humphries that they expect our international players to respect the officials and the ethos of the game. The IRFU Referees Department should issue a statement supporting Busby's refereeing, accompanied by the Season Stats (like those posted here by Xan) for Connacht's infringements relative to their opponents in the URC this season.


Criticising a ref for not being up for the job is fine but accusing them of cheating is crossing a line that is unacceptable and should be punished hard.

I will not be cheering Hansen for anything he does in the 6N

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Post by Pete330v2 Sat Jan 11 2025, 10:00

On that point Geoff I don't think Easterby should even select Hansen for the 6N.
1. He's way off form and needs to work on that until he's good enough. There are better in the wings, Nash being in pole position.
2. He's a f#*@ing embarrassment to Irish rugby every time he opens his moronic yap.
3. I can't stand the prick. Being super affable is one thing, being an embarrassing prick is another.
4. A 3 match ban is not enough in my opinion.

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Post by clivemcl Sat Jan 11 2025, 10:31

100% agree Geoff on the difference between criticising performance and suggesting intentional bias. I hate when teams and supporters do that. It’s incredibly disrespectful and not appropriate from professionals.

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Post by geoff999rugby Sat Jan 11 2025, 11:04

it grates even more due to the fact, as Pete says, Hansen is off form and there are better wingers in Irish rugby.
He is not fit to lace Stockdale's boots (sadly he is injured).

Nash should start instead of Hansen.


Last edited by geoff999rugby on Sat Jan 11 2025, 12:27; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Rugby Fan Sat Jan 11 2025, 11:48

There's a lengthy Reddit post on rugby refereeing in general, which has been getting some praise. It's probably poor etiquette to post it in full, but I doubt our audiences overlap much. Still, pop over to Reddit if you want the full context.

https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1hy12f9/comment/m6dz20f/

To be honest, I think the issue is structural rather than about individuals and training etc. This is not to say that training and quality should not be improved, just that I think that the focus on individual failures and propose solutions which are essentially solely around finding and/or making better individuals will fail. The issue is that the framing of the issue around individuals (refs) is most of the debate, and likely to stay that way - so we will just keep on going in circles on this. The issue is structural.

We have in Union a sport which fundamentally doesnt work as a set of laws. Its like one of those games you invent as a kid over summer with the local neighbourhood - full of weird developments and rules with an image in everyone's mind of what you are playing - but if you were to analyse it, it would be mental.

The laws don't work if directly and fully applied. If they were, there would be 0 flow, no attacking rugby, and a Poopie sport to watch. Yet we also need to keep all these rules as without them rugby morphs into something far away from the sport we have in our head, the sport we love. Instead, we/world rugby have developed a model where the referee is the one whose job is to make the game work, which involves ignoring things, defining loose vague concepts on the fly, and ensuring flow. To produce that game in our head. This is all where coaches and players (rightly and understandably) squeeze every advantage they can knowing where they can afford to take the piss to leverage an advantage. Do this in different unions in different countries with different definitions of what the game in our head is, is it a flowing game, a physical game, a grinding territorial game, a game which rewards discipline - depending on this the refs produced follow that model.

If we want to avoid variation and inconsistency we need to change the laws to mean we don’t put the onus on making the game actually work on the referee. Nothing else will work. The issue is that doing so involves simplification and reductionism of facets of the game which would, rightly, be considered as fundamentally changing Union. In addition, there isn’t really consensus on what the game is or should be, which makes this harder.

So instead we blame the refs decry the lack of consistency, that x ignored y but k ignored j. Not reflecting on the wider structural challenge at the heart of union - when fully enforced and fully policed the game becomes unwatchable for many. This is made even more challenging when across the laws exactly what constitutes a particular infringement is often framed in unclear, vague and fluid language. With much of it only further relying on things which are not black and white calls - such as intention in knock ons. All assessed dynamically in short periods of time while sprinting after top athletes, and props.

There are Poopie refs. God, I am one of them - I managed to fully forget what happens when a ball goes dead in the middle of a Frak game once. Refs can improve, absolutely. But consistency is to an extent an empty buzzword, particularly in competitions which involve numerous refs from different unions which each inculcating a particular set of normative values as to what is good reffing and each differently managing solutions to the problems presented by the nature of the laws outlined above.

The laws of union are so idiosyncratically complex and vague so much that they are neither operationalisable in a clear way nor workable if applied fully. For me the ridiculousness is captured by the unironic and un-self-aware claim front and centre that "the game is played both to the letter and within the spirit of the laws". Both. At the same time.

The result is that we rely on refs to dynamically make them work on the fly in games. We build up a weird case law set of systems made to create some kind of workable standard - for example hands in cynical interception plays, the feed at scrum, hand direction for forward passes etc. We tinker. We ignore bits. We tell TMOs not to review certain things or past a certain time frame. We ask ARs to keep observations on the sly and low key. We add extra bits. We haggle over wording to conjure changes toward the style of play which we visualise in our mind's eye as to what rugby should look like (an ideal which differs between hemispheres and unions).

In many ways the best refs are not those who apply the laws fully, nor understand them always, but those whose vibe check is best able to calibrate and read 'the room' to make a workable spectacle rugby. Knowing what to enforce when to send a message early, what to leave as immaterial or unhelpful to ping, how to keep players on side.... all through a fast pace and dynamic game.

The problem becomes that these decisions, even by the best of them, will obviously have things deliberately ignored, interpreted differently, or emphasised which will differ from ref to ref, union to union, or context to context. Even at my Poopie tier how you ref a game depends on the teams and context (is it a derby, a shellacking, late or early in the game, is the niggle in or is it good natured). On top of that there are 30 players often doing their very best to cheat to the finest of margins of acceptable all over the pitch.

Yet if you are watching your team, and especially if you have money on the game, those things either ignored or missed will be a failure of the ref/sign of bias etc. However, often the same people will decry a ref who refuses to let the game flow by ignoring infringement. You can't win, at best you can play the vibes well, perform in a way which allows grudging acceptance of the inconsistencies because you are likeable or trusted as a personality, and get lucky.

I hated the ELV when they came out, it contradicted my sense of what rugby is - yet as we go through cycle after cycle after cycle of this drama I increasingly think the underlying logic of it, to simplify (and as a result take the ref out of the game), is the only way forward. I fear the result would be a sport I would enjoy less, but its the only way out of the endless cycle.

Fundamentally, we cannot have a sport which relies on the ref to dynamically make the sport work as a game and spectacle and iron out inconsistencies, errors, ignored calls, differing interpretations.

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Post by carpet baboon Sat Jan 11 2025, 12:12

That is one of the best things I have read on rugby in a very long time (well apart from my fellow 606v2ers who will always add delightful insight).
But he's right. So painfully right.
We all want "our" game of rugby but fail to see our game isn't the same as his or hers or the pundits or the fan sitting next to me.

So what do we do? Hold an international poll every 4 years as to what laws we want policed and which ones ignored?
World cup winning union gets to pick?
We dumb it all down so more league fans can understand it? 😉

Not sure what the answer is but I think he's definitely identified one of the major problems


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Post by Poorfour Sat Jan 11 2025, 13:15

I disagree pretty fundamentally with that post. I suspect it’s been written by someone who hasn’t actually trained as a ref or refereed a game before.

The Laws are complex - but they are complex because in a contact sport there is a lot that can happen, and you need Laws to protect both the players and the ability to have a fair contest (and this an enjoyable game to watch).

Players and coaches will always try to push the boundaries - for instance, it’s a rare prop whose strength, technique and reputation are so good that they can afford to play within the letter of the law at all times [1].

A big part of the skill of a ref - and literally the first thing you are taught on the Entry Level Refereeing Award - is to recognise that there will be half a dozen infringements in every contact situation, and your job is to work out which ones are material enough to impact safety and fair contest, and which you can let go.

That leeway and judgement is a crucial part of the game, because if you didn’t have it you would either have Laws that are too loose, or a constant series of setpieces.

Bias, at least unconscious bias, is also inevitable. It’s part of being human; our conscious brains can only handle a tiny fraction of the information available to us, so we rely on preconscious systems to look for patterns and alert us. Unless those are very finely tuned over years of experience, they will miss some stuff and overreact to others.

The trick - and the area where I would like to see better training of refs and better co-ordination between the ref, ARs and TMO - is in using all the resources to iron out consistent errors over the course of the game.

Rugby is a game of fine margins and if one side is consistently getting an edge in one area of the game, I think it’s good practice to think about whether they are getting that fairly or not.

If the scrum is going down on one put in but staying up on the other, ask the TMO to check in the background why it’s happening. If one team are doing particularly well at kick chases or closing down the opposing attack with a blitz, ask the ARs to check offside.

Taking that approach, to my mind, would do a lot more to improve the standard of reffing than trying to rewrite the Law book.



[1] The only exception I can think of being Jason Leonard’s “I’ll just push and go backwards and forwards” to Andre Watson in the 2003 RWC Final.
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Post by Poorfour Sat Jan 11 2025, 16:01

Since we’re on the topic of refs, Ben Whitehouse is handling the Exeter v UBB game really well - good decision making, good communication and good use of the TMO.

Now, of course, I have probably jinxed him and he will have a shocker for the rest of the match.
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